Iraq war "Hero" has tea party support....

gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
edited October 2010 in A Moving Train
interesting...i wonder if he was a liberal if the democrats would be supporting him...i guess quality of character has nothing to do with getting votes...

US veteran who killed unarmed Iraqis wins Tea Party support
Murder charges were dropped against Ilario Pantano, who now verges on election victory buoyed by right-wing backing

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oc ... -tea-party

The basic facts are undisputed: on 15 April 2004 Ilario Pantano, then a second lieutenant with the US marines, stopped and detained two Iraqi men in a car near Falluja. The Iraqis were unarmed and the car found to be empty of weapons.

Pantano ordered the two men to search the car for a second time and then, with no other US soldiers in view, unloaded a magazine of his M16A4 automatic rifle into them, before reloading and blasting a second magazine at them – some 60 rounds in total.

Over the corpses, he left a placard inscribed with the marine motto: "No better friend, No worse enemy."

Six years later Pantano is on the verge of a stunning electoral victory that could send him to the US Congress in Washington. He is standing as Republican candidate in North Carolina's 7th congressional district, which was last represented by his party in 1871.

With the help of the right-wing Tea Party movement, and with the benefit of his image as a war hero acquired from what happened on that fateful day in 2004, he has raised almost $1m (£630,000) in donations and is now level-pegging with his Democratic opponent, Mike McIntyre.

"We are in complete contention. We are certainly neck-and-neck. And we are feeling terrific," he said at a Tea Party rally outside Wilmington.

Pantano is one of the new breed of hardline Republicans thrown up by the turmoil of the economic meltdown and the ensuing Tea Party explosion. He served in the first Gulf war, then worked for Goldman Sachs before rejoining the marines days after the 9/11 attacks.

A few months after he killed the two unarmed Iraqis, a member of his unit reported him to senior officers and he was charged with premeditated murder. At a pre-trial military hearing, prosecution witnesses testified that the detainees, Hamaady Kareem and Tahah Hanjil, were unthreatening and that their bodies were found in a kneeling position having apparently been shot in the back.

The defence countered that weapons had been found in the house from where the Iraqis were fleeing. The men had turned on Pantano unexpectedly as he was guarding them. He shouted "Stop!" but they didn't respond and he opened fire in self-defence.

Defence lawyers highlighted inconsistencies in the accounts of the prosecution witnesses and portrayed the main witness, who had been demoted by Pantano, as a soldier with an axe to grind. Forensic evidence was said to conflict with the prosecution case.

In the event, all charges against Pantano were dropped on grounds of insufficient evidence. But the officer presiding over the hearing recommended that Pantano be given non-judicial punishment for having displayed "extremely poor judgment", adding that by desecrating the Iraqi's bodies with his placard he had brought disgrace to the armed forces.

Pantano declined to be drawn on the specifics of his case. "I'm running for Congress. I'm not defending myself for something that happened five years ago," he said.

But what about that placard? "I don't need to explain anything to people. If folk are alarmed, well war is alarming. All of my men that are alive are grateful for my service."

Neither Pantano nor McIntyre, who has held the seat for the Democrats for the past 12 years, have raised the shooting incident in their campaigns. The only criticism, paradoxically, has come from the Republican who Pantano beat in the primary election, Will Breazeale.

"I myself was a veteran of Iraq. I've detained Iraqis, and in my view Pantano is no war hero," he said.

Pantano dismissed his criticisms as "an historic case of sour grapes".

But in this district, which has a large military population due to its proximity to Camp Lejeune, the marine base where Pantano's pre-trial hearing took place, most voters know Pantano's story intimately. "He's a war hero," said a top local Republican official who declined to give his name. And the placard? "Doesn't bother me."

Arthur Plante, a veteran of the US coastguard, said: "If I had been in his situation over in Iraq I would have done the same thing." His wife, Cynthia, also a veteran, said: "I would follow Pantano to war any time, any place. He did what had to be done."

Pantano is fighting the election on a national manifesto for change. He wants to cut back on government spending and clamp down on extremist Islam.

He recently spoke at Ground Zero in New York where he opposes plans to build an Islamic cultural centre nearby. "America objects to what's happening there. The folks in this district think it's an abomination," he said.

He has been endorsed by Pamela Geller, one of the leading opponents of the cultural centre who has built bridges between her group Stop Islamisation of America and the British far-right group the English Defence League.

"I don't have any anxieties about Pam Geller," Pantano said. "She is a patriot. I'm thrilled to have her endorsement."
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    we only get from this story that "forensic evidence was said to conflict with the prosecution case." But there was no presentation of that. We basically get a story that portrays this guy as an animal who is clearly guilty but had his case dismissed due to lack of evidence and that the world's most dangerous political movement is supporting this candidate over a tax and spend liberal democrat.
    Well if there is lack of evidence maybe he wasn't guilty of anything but extremely poor judgement, which most politicians have shown in their lives at some point. I could list all kinds of examples but really the most important thing is how you learn from those mistakes. That is what shows your character.

    That being said I probably would not support this guy, not for his policies but it certainly does raise questions about his character that he refuses to answer questions about it and does not take ownership of the mistake of the placard.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    This guy is a tool...I get see his campaign commercials day and night...he comes off as a pompous ass...
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    we only get from this story that "forensic evidence was said to conflict with the prosecution case." But there was no presentation of that. We basically get a story that portrays this guy as an animal who is clearly guilty but had his case dismissed due to lack of evidence and that the world's most dangerous political movement is supporting this candidate over a tax and spend liberal democrat.
    Well if there is lack of evidence maybe he wasn't guilty of anything but extremely poor judgement, which most politicians have shown in their lives at some point. I could list all kinds of examples but really the most important thing is how you learn from those mistakes. That is what shows your character.

    That being said I probably would not support this guy, not for his policies but it certainly does raise questions about his character that he refuses to answer questions about it and does not take ownership of the mistake of the placard.
    i do not see how this is disputable...

    "The basic facts are undisputed: on 15 April 2004 Ilario Pantano, then a second lieutenant with the US marines, stopped and detained two Iraqi men in a car near Falluja. The Iraqis were unarmed and the car found to be empty of weapons.

    Pantano ordered the two men to search the car for a second time and then, with no other US soldiers in view, unloaded a magazine of his M16A4 automatic rifle into them, before reloading and blasting a second magazine at them – some 60 rounds in total.

    Over the corpses, he left a placard inscribed with the marine motto: "No better friend, No worse enemy.""
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Cree NationsCree Nations Posts: 2,247
    what a weird and wacky place the us is, they crucify a kid for killing a marine in combat and then they let a marine who killed two unarmed civillians run for office..... :?
    >>>>
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  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    we only get from this story that "forensic evidence was said to conflict with the prosecution case." But there was no presentation of that. We basically get a story that portrays this guy as an animal who is clearly guilty but had his case dismissed due to lack of evidence and that the world's most dangerous political movement is supporting this candidate over a tax and spend liberal democrat.
    Well if there is lack of evidence maybe he wasn't guilty of anything but extremely poor judgement, which most politicians have shown in their lives at some point. I could list all kinds of examples but really the most important thing is how you learn from those mistakes. That is what shows your character.

    That being said I probably would not support this guy, not for his policies but it certainly does raise questions about his character that he refuses to answer questions about it and does not take ownership of the mistake of the placard.
    i do not see how this is disputable...

    "The basic facts are undisputed: on 15 April 2004 Ilario Pantano, then a second lieutenant with the US marines, stopped and detained two Iraqi men in a car near Falluja. The Iraqis were unarmed and the car found to be empty of weapons.

    Pantano ordered the two men to search the car for a second time and then, with no other US soldiers in view, unloaded a magazine of his M16A4 automatic rifle into them, before reloading and blasting a second magazine at them – some 60 rounds in total.

    Over the corpses, he left a placard inscribed with the marine motto: "No better friend, No worse enemy.""





    Again, extremely poor judgement, but why would they say forensic evidence did not compute with the prosecution and then not give what that evidence was and how it contradicted the prosecutions story.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    mikepegg44 wrote:

    Again, extremely poor judgement, but why would they say forensic evidence did not compute with the prosecution and then not give what that evidence was and how it contradicted the prosecutions story.

    "poor judgement'???

    are you defending this clown that murdered 2 civilians? he should be in prison not running for national office.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited October 2010
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Again, extremely poor judgement

    When an American is killed it's sick and barbaric.

    When an American mows down two unarmed brown-skinned people it's extremely poor judgement.
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    Byrnzie wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Again, extremely poor judgement

    When an American is killed it's sick and barbaric.

    When an American mows down two unarmed brown-skinned people it's extremely poor judegment.
    no matter who did the killing it is sick and barbaric. and for this man to be able to seek office after committing such acts makes me want to vomit...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    mikepegg44 wrote:

    Again, extremely poor judgement, but why would they say forensic evidence did not compute with the prosecution and then not give what that evidence was and how it contradicted the prosecutions story.

    "poor judgement'???

    are you defending this clown that murdered 2 civilians? he should be in prison not running for national office.


    again, you are convicting him when the evidence disproved the prosecutions case of murder. but whatever, think what you want, again, I never said I would support him because I think his character is in question. But quite frankly, the idea that the evidence contradicted the prosecutions case in this story as well as in the child soldier case, but one is obivously guilty and the other is a martyr...i just don't get it
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,497
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    we only get from this story that "forensic evidence was said to conflict with the prosecution case." But there was no presentation of that. We basically get a story that portrays this guy as an animal who is clearly guilty but had his case dismissed due to lack of evidence and that the world's most dangerous political movement is supporting this candidate over a tax and spend liberal democrat.
    Well if there is lack of evidence maybe he wasn't guilty of anything but extremely poor judgement, which most politicians have shown in their lives at some point. I could list all kinds of examples but really the most important thing is how you learn from those mistakes. That is what shows your character.

    That being said I probably would not support this guy, not for his policies but it certainly does raise questions about his character that he refuses to answer questions about it and does not take ownership of the mistake of the placard.
    i do not see how this is disputable...

    "The basic facts are undisputed: on 15 April 2004 Ilario Pantano, then a second lieutenant with the US marines, stopped and detained two Iraqi men in a car near Falluja. The Iraqis were unarmed and the car found to be empty of weapons.

    Pantano ordered the two men to search the car for a second time and then, with no other US soldiers in view, unloaded a magazine of his M16A4 automatic rifle into them, before reloading and blasting a second magazine at them – some 60 rounds in total.

    Over the corpses, he left a placard inscribed with the marine motto: "No better friend, No worse enemy.""

    Well, either it is an example of terrible justice in court or an example of terrible journalism. Because if those are the "basic facts" and "undisputed", it seems crazy that nothing would happen to the soldier.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    nothing happens to any soldier ... just look at the plethora of documents released by wikileaks ... it pretty much says what everyone has been saying along - this war has nothing to do with freedom or justice ... this incident is just one of thousands that are similar ...

    it's easy to wrap up shit in an american flag and call it gold ... that is the foundation of tea party support ...

    the right is on the rise ... born from ignorance and lies ... and i don't see this rise falling anytime soon ...
  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    The basic facts are undisputed: on 15 April 2004 Ilario Pantano, then a second lieutenant with the US marines, stopped and detained two Iraqi men in a car near Falluja. The Iraqis were unarmed and the car found to be empty of weapons.

    Pantano ordered the two men to search the car for a second time and then, with no other US soldiers in view, unloaded a magazine of his M16A4 automatic rifle into them, before reloading and blasting a second magazine at them – some 60 rounds in total.

    Over the corpses, he left a placard inscribed with the marine motto: "No better friend, No worse enemy."

    I hate to say this, but if there's no evidence, then there's no evidence.
    I hate to defend this guy because he sounds like a piece of work and likely guilty, but you just can't go on a hunch. I havent read up on this in any other arena, but it sounds like there should be more to the story.

    Unfortunately, there are many sick things like this going on in places like Iraq with American soldiers. It is disgusting (vomit worthy as you said), saddening, and will likely create a whole new wave of terrorism against the U.S. once these victims kids grow up and want revenge too.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    I hate to say this, but if there's no evidence, then there's no evidence.
    I hate to defend this guy because he sounds like a piece of work and likely guilty, but you just can't go on a hunch. I havent read up on this in any other arena, but it sounds like there should be more to the story.

    Unfortunately, there are many sick things like this going on in places like Iraq with American soldiers. It is disgusting (vomit worthy as you said), saddening, and will likely create a whole new wave of terrorism against the U.S. once these victims kids grow up and want revenge too.

    you have to treat the investigative process in iraq/afghanistan different than back here ... doctoring of evidence, retraction of statements, and lying is standard over there ...

    the bodies were found with rounds shot in their back in a position that would indicate they were knealing ... it's basically army guys investigating army guys ... for the same reason why cops get away with dui's and speeding ...
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    must have been investigated by maxwell smart or frank drebin or the keystone cops..

    i would like to investigate the chain of evidence handling.

    like someone said it is marines investigating marines. they owe no duty to the families of these victims, like in the other thread where the helicopter orphaned 2 children and the army gave the uncle $5000 and said "it is the best we could do"... justice is really not in their best interest. it makes for a better story back home stateside for a soldier accused of a crime to get off. we can't let people back home think that their hero soldiers are bunch of fucking savages can we?? whatever happend with the killing squad who collected fingers of the victims??


    the article said the charges were dropped because of insufficient evidence, meaning there was not enough there to convict beyond a shadow of a doubt. i am sure this motherfucker is guilty though, most people handling civilians where they end up mysteriously dead are guilty of the crime, gross negligence and deriliction of duty at the very least, it is just not proven in a military court....
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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