Ancient ruins worldwide 'on verge of vanishing'

Pap

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/10/18/vanishing.historic.sites/index.html?hpt=Mid

cajunkiwi

That's depressing - too many people have no regard whatsoever for history. I'm all for progress and moving forward, but only if it can be done while also honoring the past.

There's a controversy happening at Louisiana State University at the moment regarding "Indian Mounds." The mounds are two large (roughly 10 feet high), well, mounds of earth, that were constructed by the Istrouma tribe several thousand years ago (before the Egyptian pyramids were built, which blows my mind to think about). It was originally thought they were burial mounds, but most of the research has concluded that the only things buried beneath them are campfires and shards of pottery.

For years, kids would run all over the mounds while tailgating before football games, and would often use cardboard boxes to slide down them. Now a group of archaeologists and geologists is trying to get that practice stopped, because the mounds are eroding due to the wear and tear that comes with several thousand people walking all over them several times a year, and cracks are appearing internally that mean the mounds could collapse inward.

The public is pissed, and many people are saying basically that people should be allowed to walk all over them, because it's what they've been doing for years, and that if the mounds collapse them we can just bring in a truckload of dirt and rebuild them. Because, you know, if the Sphinx were to one day collapse, you could just rebuild it with some bricks and it would totally be the same.

On the day of LSU's first home game, the geology department placed signs around the mounds asking people to please stay off them. Sadly/pathetically, the public responded by uprooting the signs and letting their kids use the signs for sleds as they slid down them.

Byrnzie

I'd have thought UNESCO would have jumped on this.

Though in the case of Iraq and Palestine obviously the security issues need to be sorted out first before anyone can begin preserving these places.

catefrances

cajunkiwi wrote:

That's depressing - too many people have no regard whatsoever for history. I'm all for progress and moving forward, but only if it can be done while also honoring the past.

There's a controversy happening at Louisiana State University at the moment regarding "Indian Mounds." The mounds are two large (roughly 10 feet high), well, mounds of earth, that were constructed by the Istrouma tribe several thousand years ago (before the Egyptian pyramids were built, which blows my mind to think about). It was originally thought they were burial mounds, but most of the research has concluded that the only things buried beneath them are campfires and shards of pottery.

For years, kids would run all over the mounds while tailgating before football games, and would often use cardboard boxes to slide down them. Now a group of archaeologists and geologists is trying to get that practice stopped, because the mounds are eroding due to the wear and tear that comes with several thousand people walking all over them several times a year, and cracks are appearing internally that mean the mounds could collapse inward.

The public is pissed, and many people are saying basically that people should be allowed to walk all over them, because it's what they've been doing for years, and that if the mounds collapse them we can just bring in a truckload of dirt and rebuild them. Because, you know, if the Sphinx were to one day collapse, you could just rebuild it with some bricks and it would totally be the same.

On the day of LSU's first home game, the geology department placed signs around the mounds asking people to please stay off them. Sadly/pathetically, the public responded by uprooting the signs and letting their kids use the signs for sleds as they slid down them.

just campfires and broken pottery??

whats the significance to the istrouma tribe?

haffajappa

cajunkiwi wrote:

That's depressing - too many people have no regard whatsoever for history. I'm all for progress and moving forward, but only if it can be done while also honoring the past.

There's a controversy happening at Louisiana State University at the moment regarding "Indian Mounds." The mounds are two large (roughly 10 feet high), well, mounds of earth, that were constructed by the Istrouma tribe several thousand years ago (before the Egyptian pyramids were built, which blows my mind to think about). It was originally thought they were burial mounds, but most of the research has concluded that the only things buried beneath them are campfires and shards of pottery.

For years, kids would run all over the mounds while tailgating before football games, and would often use cardboard boxes to slide down them. Now a group of archaeologists and geologists is trying to get that practice stopped, because the mounds are eroding due to the wear and tear that comes with several thousand people walking all over them several times a year, and cracks are appearing internally that mean the mounds could collapse inward.

The public is pissed, and many people are saying basically that people should be allowed to walk all over them, because it's what they've been doing for years, and that if the mounds collapse them we can just bring in a truckload of dirt and rebuild them. Because, you know, if the Sphinx were to one day collapse, you could just rebuild it with some bricks and it would totally be the same.

On the day of LSU's first home game, the geology department placed signs around the mounds asking people to please stay off them. Sadly/pathetically, the public responded by uprooting the signs and letting their kids use the signs for sleds as they slid down them.

yet they will be the first to sue when their child falls in the ground when the mound collapses.
and we all know it.

cajunkiwi

catefrances wrote:

cajunkiwi wrote:

That's depressing - too many people have no regard whatsoever for history. I'm all for progress and moving forward, but only if it can be done while also honoring the past.

There's a controversy happening at Louisiana State University at the moment regarding "Indian Mounds." The mounds are two large (roughly 10 feet high), well, mounds of earth, that were constructed by the Istrouma tribe several thousand years ago (before the Egyptian pyramids were built, which blows my mind to think about). It was originally thought they were burial mounds, but most of the research has concluded that the only things buried beneath them are campfires and shards of pottery.

For years, kids would run all over the mounds while tailgating before football games, and would often use cardboard boxes to slide down them. Now a group of archaeologists and geologists is trying to get that practice stopped, because the mounds are eroding due to the wear and tear that comes with several thousand people walking all over them several times a year, and cracks are appearing internally that mean the mounds could collapse inward.

The public is pissed, and many people are saying basically that people should be allowed to walk all over them, because it's what they've been doing for years, and that if the mounds collapse them we can just bring in a truckload of dirt and rebuild them. Because, you know, if the Sphinx were to one day collapse, you could just rebuild it with some bricks and it would totally be the same.

On the day of LSU's first home game, the geology department placed signs around the mounds asking people to please stay off them. Sadly/pathetically, the public responded by uprooting the signs and letting their kids use the signs for sleds as they slid down them.

just campfires and broken pottery??

whats the significance to the istrouma tribe?

That's the sticking point - nobody is 100% sure, and the tribe isn't really around to ask anymore. I should've been clearer with my original post - campfires and pottery are the only things they've been able to spot on the few occasions they've tried to find out what's inside (using a seismobile). Nobody is sure of what's buried inside, or why the tribe built the mounds in the first place. What they do know is that they're the oldest mounds in the entire Western Hemisphere, and 11 years ago they were placed on the National Register of Historic Places due to their historical significance.

Cree Nations

too many people in north america have no respect and consideration for First Nation artifacts and remains, unadressed racisim is at the root of it all

haffajappa

Cree Nations wrote:

too many people in north america have no respect and consideration for First Nation artifacts and remains, unadressed racisim is at the root of it all

yeup.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

it's not just First Nations artifacts, it runs the gammut. people in our era just don't give a shit, and are bred ignorant.

but yeah, I know what you're saying.

Cree Nations wrote:

too many people in north america have no respect and consideration for First Nation artifacts and remains, unadressed racisim is at the root of it all

Pepe Silvia

Paul David wrote:

it's not just First Nations artifacts, it runs the gammut. people in our era just don't give a shit, and are bred ignorant.

but yeah, I know what you're saying.

Cree Nations wrote:

too many people in north america have no respect and consideration for First Nation artifacts and remains, unadressed racisim is at the root of it all

typical americans

or to quote nobody from dead man "stupid white man"

but can anyone really be surprised by the callousness with these mounds?? i mean everyone who comes from below our borders are 'mexicans' and for fucks sake look at where they built mt rushmore!! when they cut the ribbon i bet they exclaimed ha, in yo face, savage!

everything west of the mississippi my arse

and jackson violated the supreme courts rulings and confiscated farms and lands by people of the first nation, even land they purchased legally.

wounded knee

all we've ever done is spit in their faces and take, take, take

when americans say all that land is israel's because they were driven out thousands of years ago i ask if they're for giving land back to the native tribes, parts of texas and california to mexico, hawaii back to the islanders, florida back to the native tribes and spanish...especially since it's a lot more recent and yet, oddly, they never have a response

Commy

this gets deeper.



there were reports of an idaho canyon having ancient egyptian artifacts in a cave. an entire cave, 12 foot gold statues, hieroglyphs, the real deal.


there are also reports of the smithsonean taking barges full of artifacts and dumping them into the ocean.

cajunkiwi

haffajappa wrote:

Cree Nations wrote:

too many people in north america have no respect and consideration for First Nation artifacts and remains, unadressed racisim is at the root of it all

yeup.

The Maori way of life was starting to die out in NZ, and people weren't speaking the language as often, until sometime in the 80s when the prime minister decided we couldn't afford to lose our heritage. There's been a much bigger push to have Maori spoken in schools, street signs and buildings signs are often in both languages, and people can visit maraes to see the Maori way of life. We've actually sent a few politicians to Canada this year to see how you guys have integrated the First Nations into 2010 Canada.

Sadly, I never really appreciated the Maori culture until I moved here. I only speak maybe 50 words of Maori and would struggle to form a complete sentence. It's a shame that it took me moving 7,000 miles away to fully comprehend the significance of it.

cajunkiwi

A question for Cree Nations, haffajappa, and anyone else who wants to chime in:

What are your thoughts on athletic teams who choose tribal names for their nicknames? Take the Florida State Seminoles for example: do you think it's denigrating to the tribe and reduces it to a caricature, or do you think it can play a role in keeping the Seminole tribe alive?

(alive is a very clumsy way of putting it... I mean keeping the tribe in the forefront of people's minds so they're more aware of it, and keeping the customs going as a result)

Cree Nations

its both but it depends whether or not it is directed at a particular tribe and whether or not they are ok with it for your aforementioned reasons. Rule of thumb for me would generally be no....its probably not a good thing to make a mockery of any ethnicity. What about the Kansas City Coons, Alabama Sister Lovers...etc

cincybearcat

Commy wrote:

this gets deeper.



there were reports of an idaho canyon having ancient egyptian artifacts in a cave. an entire cave, 12 foot gold statues, hieroglyphs, the real deal.


there are also reports of the smithsonean taking barges full of artifacts and dumping them into the ocean.

What's the reasoning?

cincybearcat

Cree Nations wrote:

its both but it depends whether or not it is directed at a particular tribe and whether or not they are ok with it for your aforementioned reasons. Rule of thumb for me would generally be no....its probably not a good thing to make a mockery of any ethnicity. What about the Kansas City Coons, Alabama Sister Lovers...etc

So, you are equating "Seminoles' with deragatory terms like "coons" and "sister lovers"...interesting.

I could see if you were using "Redskins" or even "Indians", but Seminoles is not on the same level me thinks.

Cree Nations

no its not the same level

cajunkiwi

cincybearcat wrote:

Cree Nations wrote:

its both but it depends whether or not it is directed at a particular tribe and whether or not they are ok with it for your aforementioned reasons. Rule of thumb for me would generally be no....its probably not a good thing to make a mockery of any ethnicity. What about the Kansas City Coons, Alabama Sister Lovers...etc

So, you are equating "Seminoles' with deragatory terms like "coons" and "sister lovers"...interesting.

I could see if you were using "Redskins" or even "Indians", but Seminoles is not on the same level me thinks.

Yeah - as a total outsider, I don't see what is offensive about calling a team "Seminoles" or "Sioux" after the tribes from that area. To me, I see it as a sign of respect, an acknowledgment of the original inhabitants of that area. "Redskins" is obviously bad, as is Chief Wahoo - I'd put them in the same category as "coons" - but not Sioux. Not allowing teams to name themselves after specific local tribes seems like just another step in getting rid of them altogether.