If government spending is a concern...

gimmesometruth27

Electric_Delta wrote:

I'm going to respectfully bow out of this conversation. I can't stomach the "blame America for everything" stuff any longer.

no worries, and i respect your opinion on this. but sometimes the truth is a painful thing.

VINNY GOOMBA

Commy wrote:

any tea partiers have an answer as to why this huge part of our budget is overlooked when it comes to spending cuts?

It seems that some people value security to the point where cost is completely ignored-- but only on a national scale, and when money can be printed to pay for it. I would wager to guess that a lot of these so-called "tea partiers" who see no limit to defense spending have a much more conservative and stream-lined approach to the security of their own families and homes. How many of them have round-the-clock security systems or in-home surveillance? How many of them kick down the doors and kick the asses of people who threaten them or look at them funny? How many of them pay extra for police benefits, or have some sort of other private security on top of what their town taxes already provide? How many pay close friends or relatives to permanently set-up camp on a neighbors yard to keep watch of a questionable neighbor two houses down the block, despite having no legal right to be in their neighbor's yard in the first place?

Probably not many. Most of them probably have guns, fences, dogs, and probably avoid unnecessary confrontation with their neighbors-- all of which work perfectly fine. Our national defense should be a mirror image of this model.

It's part of the same pipe dream that is shared by so many others that throwing money at a problem will fix it. It doesn't work with welfare, health care, or defense. Just because their is a law, agency, or appropriation to alleviate some problem, doesn't mean it will actually work.

VINNY GOOMBA

Electric_Delta wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Electric_Delta wrote:

We don't owe the UN anything. If they had their way, we would be paying our taxes to them.

Also, if you want to talk about bullying, let's talk about China. What about their currency manipulation which is exponentiating their growth? What about their refusal to join the rest of the world in sanctioning Iran? Why is America always the bully?

no but we owe the rest of the world to play by the rules and accept the treaties and the opinion of the UN. last time i checked the UN is the United Nations, NOT the United States...you can not have countries like the US and Israel acting above the authority of the the United Nation(S) because it is not fair to he rest of the world....we are no more entitled to skirt international law than anyone else, yet we do it all the time and are never reprimanded. why?

and i do not want to talk about china. china owns our ass. they own so much of our debt, and they seem to be our main trading partner. their economy is booming so they must be doing something right. and they are a sovreign nation, they have the right to condemn or not condemn whatever country they want. who cares if they will not condemn iran? iran is a topic for another thread because i think it is wrong how our media is quoting their leader with partial quotes and out of context quotes. the new york times did that 2 weeks ago and issued an apology for it.

america is always the bully because america is always doing the bullying...

I'm going to respectfully bow out of this conversation. I can't stomach the "blame America for everything" stuff any longer.

Define "America," is what I say. I purposely try to go out of my way to avoid using the word "we" when talking about the bullshit brought upon the good people of this nation and other nations around the world by the Congress, The White House, various government agencies and the corporations for which they stand. They are NOT America, and they sure as fuck do not represent me. So, it's not "blame America for everything" in my eyes, it's "blame the cocksuckers who hijacked a great country and put the rest of us at risk everyday in their lust for power and control." I think step one in reform of our nation would be to not take criticism of "America" so personally. I believe more of us would then recognize that as a collective most of us are on the same page with each other with varying approaches as to how make this country a better place. The fact of the matter is that the people who claim to represent us are doing a horrible job and have given themselves too much power. Granted, the populace has been duped into allowing this to happen. It is our fault for being fooled into giving banks the legal authority to counterfeit money, and if that isn't bad enough, they have the ability to do it without disclosure. That is the head of the beast, and that is why it is never discussed in the mainstream media.

Bow out if you want. I hope that you and everyone else also feels that you are unbelievably misrepresented as an American, which should mean "citizen of the nation most dedicated to the freedom of its people." I personally will not blame "America," because I feel my defintion of American best fits its original definition-- not the one created by the assholes who ruined our reputation around the world. It's like Office Space where Michael Bolton refuses to go by "Mike." As he puts it, "Why should I change my name? He's the one who sucks!"

Commy

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

Commy wrote:

any tea partiers have an answer as to why this huge part of our budget is overlooked when it comes to spending cuts?

It seems that some people value security to the point where cost is completely ignored-- but only on a national scale, and when money can be printed to pay for it. I would wager to guess that a lot of these so-called "tea partiers" who see no limit to defense spending have a much more conservative and stream-lined approach to the security of their own families and homes. How many of them have round-the-clock security systems or in-home surveillance? How many of them kick down the doors and kick the asses of people who threaten them or look at them funny? How many of them pay extra for police benefits, or have some sort of other private security on top of what their town taxes already provide? How many pay close friends or relatives to permanently set-up camp on a neighbors yard to keep watch of a questionable neighbor two houses down the block, despite having no legal right to be in their neighbor's yard in the first place?

Probably not many. Most of them probably have guns, fences, dogs, and probably avoid unnecessary confrontation with their neighbors-- all of which work perfectly fine. Our national defense should be a mirror image of this model.

It's part of the same pipe dream that is shared by so many others that throwing money at a problem will fix it. It doesn't work with welfare, health care, or defense. Just because their is a law, agency, or appropriation to alleviate some problem, doesn't mean it will actually work.

You make a lot of sense i will give you that, and i'm far enough left that i actually agree with a lot of conservatism.

I use the bully analogy quite a bit. you're out there kicking everyone's asses all day, and occasionally they throw a punch back.....if you don't like being punched maybe stepping up the asskicking isn't the best way to solve that problem.

terrorists have never attacked Canada, there is a reason for that.


some things just don't require an institution (government, private). anytime power concentrates it corrupts, the institution that at first acted altruistically or for a goal, inevitably ends up serving itself primarily. this is true from haliburton to PETA.


collectives, things like co-op stores, worker run companies, places that aren't fascist institutions (corporations have a top down structure, very fascist) could be expanded on. the workers running the company, as opposed to renting ourselves out to companies to survive; communal farms, shared labor. things like that go a long way to dealing with things fairly.


and naturally leaving people alone, domestically and abroad. the goal of course should be to maximize personal freedom. but you do this by doing for yourself what you have had government or corporate institutions do for you all of this time.





and given a choice between obama, palin, or paul i'd vote for ron paul in a second.

Godfather.

Commy wrote:

why isn't anyone up in arms over the $1 trillion spent on the war in Iraq?


remember we were lied to to start this war.


any tea partiers have an answer as to why this huge part of our budget is overlooked when it comes to spending cuts?

don't we spend close to that on other un-necessary thing's here in the US ? we could get mad about that also bring me a hat made of tea .

Godfather.

Godfather.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrati ... legals.htm


http://www.spamlaws.com/welfare-fraud.html


lots of stuff to get angry about and list could go on for ever :shock:

Godfather.

unsung

Recall our military from around the globe.

Only occupy another country if Congress declares war.

Put those recalled troops on our borders and ports. Defend this country from those that choose to break laws by coming here illegally.

End the war on drugs, shoot to kill all drug smugglers when they attempt to cross onto US territory. Defend the nation but no more monetary assistance to other nations for drug wars.

Jail CEO's of companies that hire illegal aliens.

Bring manufacturing back to the US by offering large tax breaks to said companies to do so. Any time "stimulus" money is spent buying goods require by law that those goods are made in USA.

Withdraw from the UN.

End NAFTA.

Rewrite the welfare laws, end welfare to able bodied people that have sucked the taxpayers tit for years without valid reason. All welfare recipients must do something for the money, read to kids, pick up garbage, something to contribute.

Stop wasting money on buying road signs as propaganda for your agenda Mr Obama.

Spend money on conservation. Create more national parks.

Charge politicians with perjury for voting for unconstitutional laws.

Enact term limits.

Reduce our dependence on oil from countries that wish to do us harm.

Deport all liberals.

Make everyone tattoo my name on their forehead.


So I just saved about ~$1T a year, when are you going to elect me?

BTW I was just kidding about the tattoo thing.

Godfather.

unsung wrote:

Recall our military from around the globe.

Only occupy another country if Congress declares war.

Put those recalled troops on our borders and ports. Defend this country from those that choose to break laws by coming here illegally.

End the war on drugs, shoot to kill all drug smugglers when they attempt to cross onto US territory. Defend the nation but no more monetary assistance to other nations for drug wars.

Jail CEO's of companies that hire illegal aliens.

Bring manufacturing back to the US by offering large tax breaks to said companies to do so. Any time "stimulus" money is spent buying goods require by law that those goods are made in USA.

Withdraw from the UN.

End NAFTA.

Rewrite the welfare laws, end welfare to able bodied people that have sucked the taxpayers tit for years without valid reason. All welfare recipients must do something for the money, read to kids, pick up garbage, something to contribute.

Stop wasting money on buying road signs as propaganda for your agenda Mr Obama.

Spend money on conservation. Create more national parks.

Charge politicians with perjury for voting for unconstitutional laws.

Enact term limits.

Reduce our dependence on oil from countries that wish to do us harm.

Deport all liberals.

Make everyone tattoo my name on their forehead.


So I just saved about ~$1T a year, when are you going to elect me?

BTW I was just kidding about the tattoo thing.

wow !!! you just won my vote...go get em killer.

Godfather.

Commy

Godfather. wrote:

Commy wrote:

why isn't anyone up in arms over the $1 trillion spent on the war in Iraq?


remember we were lied to to start this war.


any tea partiers have an answer as to why this huge part of our budget is overlooked when it comes to spending cuts?

don't we spend close to that on other un-necessary thing's here in the US ? we could get mad about that also bring me a hat made of tea .

Godfather.

corporate handouts probably exceed $1 trillion, hundreds of billions i know that. thank reagan.


but this is a huge part of our budget, you can't deny that. its 20% before war....and the war spending is usually not included in that budget, its just money they come up with later. like the bailouts

Electric_Delta

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Electric_Delta wrote:

I'm going to respectfully bow out of this conversation. I can't stomach the "blame America for everything" stuff any longer.

no worries, and i respect your opinion on this. but sometimes the truth is a painful thing.

Sometimes truth does hurt - hyperbole never does.

Godfather.

Commy wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Commy wrote:

why isn't anyone up in arms over the $1 trillion spent on the war in Iraq?


remember we were lied to to start this war.


any tea partiers have an answer as to why this huge part of our budget is overlooked when it comes to spending cuts?

don't we spend close to that on other un-necessary thing's here in the US ? we could get mad about that also bring me a hat made of tea .

Godfather.

corporate handouts probably exceed $1 trillion, hundreds of billions i know that. thank reagan.


but this is a huge part of our budget, you can't deny that. its 20% before war....and the war spending is usually not included in that budget, its just money they come up with later. like the bailouts

I agree with you, I think that spending has been out of control for years before this war and as bad as war is is that what it takes to open eyes to the amount of money being thrown down the toilet ? my earlier post is only a few examples of where our money goes,it's spent on bullshit like that then our taxes go up to cover some the money our government pisss's away on that kind of crap.

Godfather.

Godfather.

Dozens arrested in health care fraud schemesBy Terry Frieden, CNN Justice Producer
October 13, 2010 3:55 p.m. EDT

The Justice Department indicted 73 individuals in New York and four other states for allegedly defrauding Medicare and other health care programs of an estimated $163 million.

The government said 44 defendants were indicted in New York, along with 10 in California, seven in New Mexico, six in Ohio and six in Georgia.

Indictments said the schemes included billing Medicare from phantom clinics for unnecessary medical services, or services never performed.

"The emergence of international organized crime in domestic health care fraud schemes signals a dangerous expansion that poses a serious threat to consumers as these syndicates are willing to exploit almost any program, business, or individual to earn an illegal profit," said Acting Deputy Attorney General Gary Grindler.

By midday Wednesday, federal agents had taken at least 52 of the suspects into custody.

According to a multiple-agency announcement, the charges ranged from fraud and conspiracy to money laundering, identity theft and immigration fraud.

Maximum penalties upon conviction range from 10 years to life in prison.

Justice prosecutors said the defendants would be tried in the five states where they were indicted.

Jason P

Commy wrote:

terrorists have never attacked Canada, there is a reason for that.

It's too damn cold for terrorists.

Pepe Silvia

Electric_Delta wrote:

I don't necessarily agree with the decision to invade Iraq, though I think removing Saddam Hussein from office was ultimately a great thing. Just ask the Kurds - I'm sure they would agree. Don't make assumptions.

yeah, i wonder what the kurds would say?

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset ... 2010en.pdf
"New Order, Same Abuses: Unlawful Detentions and Torture in Iraq"

http://report2009.amnesty.org/en/region ... frica/iraq
The MNF and the Iraqi authorities both held thousands of detainees; most were held without charge or trial, some for up to five years. Government security forces, including prison guards, were reported to have committed torture, including rape, and unlawful killings. The authorities made extensive use of the death penalty. More than 4 million Iraqis were displaced; 2 million were refugees abroad and others were internally displaced within Iraq. The Kurdistan region remained less affected by the conflict but there were continuing reports of abuses by the security forces and violence against women.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 541123.ece
West turns blind eye as police put Saddam's torturers back to work
From James Hider in Baghdad
IRAQI security forces, set up by American and British troops, torture detainees by pulling out their fingernails, burning them with hot irons or giving them electric shocks, Iraqi officials say. Cases have also been recorded of bound prisoners being beaten to death by police.
In their haste to put police on the streets to counter the brutal insurgency, Iraqi and US authorities have enlisted men trained under Saddam Hussein’s regime and versed in torture and abuse, the officials told The Times. They said that recruits were also being drawn from the ranks of outlawed Shia militias.

http://baltimorechronicle.com/2010/100410Lendman.shtml
Many detainees are held arbitrarily, "without charge or trial, for seven years" or longer. For some, it's despite Iraqi courts ordering them released for lack of evidence, and the 2008 Amnesty Law requiring it after six or 12 months, depending on the circumstances. Yet thousands remain lawlessly imprisoned, many held incommunicado, tortured or abused without access to counsel, and for some, no family visits. Many aren't told where their relatives are held.

haffajappa

Jason P wrote:

Commy wrote:

terrorists have never attacked Canada, there is a reason for that.

It's too damn cold for terrorists.

Hahaha...
And we build our Igloos like fuckin' bomb shelters, what can i say, we know how to keep 'em out.