interesting results from tea party convention vote...

gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
edited October 2010 in A Moving Train
interesting, although i will say that i am not too terribly surprised...it was a close vote, but there was a large number of delegates who did not vote for some reason...i wonder if this will continue or if palin will be their choice after all..

Sarah Palin no longer the darling of her own tea party
Tea Party convention delegates put her in shock second position to Chris Christie for their choice for president in 2012

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/20 ... party-2012

Over the past year Sarah Palin has established herself as the queen of the Tea Party movement. Her endorsements have helped Tea Party candidates oust established Republicans in races across the country.

But even among the hardcore of tea partygoers it cannot be assumed she reigns supreme. A canvass of delegates to the Tea Party Patriots convention in Richmond over the weekend put her in shock second position for their choice for president in 2012.

More than 1,500 delegates voted out of about 2,300 who attended the two-day event. Palin polled 13.5% of the votes and was pipped to the post by Chris Christie, the governor of New Jersey, on 14%.

At first glance it seemed an odd choice. Sarah Palin, the darling of the movement, versus a relatively little-known governor who has professed his intention not to run in 2012.

Until you take on board what Christie did last week. On Thursday he cancelled the $8.7bn (£5.5bn) tunnel under the Hudson river, the second rail tunnel that would have linked New Jersey and New York, easing congestion on the lines and taking the steam out of the increasingly clogged up roads.

For progressive economists such as the Nobel prizewinning Paul Krugman, that was a "destructive and incredibly foolish decision on multiple levels". It confirmed, the New York Times columnist wrote, that America has become "a nation whose politicians seem to compete over who can show the least vision, the least concern about the future and the greatest willingness to pander to short-term, narrow-minded selfishness".

For the Tea Party crowd, Christie's surprise act was an heroic blow struck against big government and one of its most egregious manifestations – public transport. Government should leave us alone, is the rallying cry you hear everywhere from the Tea Party followers. Let us get on with our lives, enjoying our freedom and liberty in our private cars as we crawl along in mile-upon-mile of traffic.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,158
    On Friday, Christie noted he is still willing to consider the $8.7B tunnel project. Currently, the project does not have any funding. Options will be presented for review over the next several weeks.

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/10/12/still-no-funding-for-hudson-river-tunnel-project/
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Christie is being sensible.

    Unlike Obama, some politicians believe you shouldn't spend money you don't have. New Jersey (like everyone else) is broke.
    Bristow, VA (5/13/10)
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,158
    Christie is being sensible.

    Unlike Obama, some politicians believe you shouldn't spend money you don't have. New Jersey (like everyone else) is broke.
    Not just broke, they are in serious debt. Being broke would be a positive upgrade. The only way to break even is to scrap programs or raise taxes. Pick your poison.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    yeah so don't employ the out of work workers or anything..

    really, people can not have it both ways. they can not complain about the economy and the debt, and the lack of jobs. the tunnel would be paid for evenutally. why not petition the federal government for the infrastructure money?? there is tremendous upside for the new tunnel. for one it would relieve the pressure on the existing one.

    you can solve only one of these problems:

    so don't fund the tunnel, but what are you going to tell your constituents when there is a chance to put them back to work and you refuse to do it?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • yeah so don't employ the out of work workers or anything..

    really, people can not have it both ways. they can not complain about the economy and the debt, and the lack of jobs. the tunnel would be paid for evenutally. why not petition the federal government for the infrastructure money?? there is tremendous upside for the new tunnel. for one it would relieve the pressure on the existing one.

    you can solve only one of these problems:

    so don't fund the tunnel, but what are you going to tell your constituents when there is a chance to put them back to work and you refuse to do it?

    Where is the money going to come from in the first place? We can petition the government for all the money in the world, but aren't we digging our whole deeper by spending what we don't have?

    The answer isn't for more government "stimulus." If President Goodwrench had "stimulated" the private sector instead of pissing away $800 billion dollars, things would probably be better. He doesn't seem to understand the idea that we eventually have to pay back all of this money.

    By the way, Pelosi and the rest of the corrupt hacks in the 111th Congress can stop telling us how concerned they are. Actions speak louder than words. If they don't vote to extend the Bush tax cuts, it proves they are full of shit.
    Bristow, VA (5/13/10)
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,158
    yeah so don't employ the out of work workers or anything..

    really, people can not have it both ways. they can not complain about the economy and the debt, and the lack of jobs. the tunnel would be paid for evenutally. why not petition the federal government for the infrastructure money?? there is tremendous upside for the new tunnel. for one it would relieve the pressure on the existing one.

    you can solve only one of these problems:

    so don't fund the tunnel, but what are you going to tell your constituents when there is a chance to put them back to work and you refuse to do it?
    In regards to the federal government funding the project, I don't want to pay for New Jersey's projects just because they can't balance a budget. NJ will need to address it by either cutting funding to other state programs or by raising taxes. I agree that the tunnel will have tremendous upside but that cannot figure into a current fiscal operating budget.

    Hopefully these issues will be addressed in the next several weeks and the project will continue forward.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    interesting, although i will say that i am not too terribly surprised...it was a close vote, but there was a large number of delegates who did not vote for some reason...i wonder if this will continue or if palin will be their choice after all..

    hopefully they are smart enough to throw whatever support they can behind someone with a proven track record of fiscal responsibility. I think people are starting to see through the Palin facade. She is like Newt Gingrich, great at evoking a response from those that agree with them, but really only go that far. Hopefully she is starting to annoy her supporters as much as she annoys me.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    yeah so don't employ the out of work workers or anything..

    really, people can not have it both ways. they can not complain about the economy and the debt, and the lack of jobs. the tunnel would be paid for evenutally. why not petition the federal government for the infrastructure money?? there is tremendous upside for the new tunnel. for one it would relieve the pressure on the existing one.

    you can solve only one of these problems:

    so don't fund the tunnel, but what are you going to tell your constituents when there is a chance to put them back to work and you refuse to do it?

    Where is the money going to come from in the first place? We can petition the government for all the money in the world, but aren't we digging our whole deeper by spending what we don't have?

    The answer isn't for more government "stimulus." If President Goodwrench had "stimulated" the private sector instead of pissing away $800 billion dollars, things would probably be better. He doesn't seem to understand the idea that we eventually have to pay back all of this money.

    By the way, Pelosi and the rest of the corrupt hacks in the 111th Congress can stop telling us how concerned they are. Actions speak louder than words. If they don't vote to extend the Bush tax cuts, it proves they are full of shit.
    this is not about what obama stimulated. this is about having a chance to get people back to work and this guy has to look those people in the eye and say "i'm sorry i had the chance to take federal money to get this going and get you back to work, but since i am seeking higher office i have to stand by principle and not help you all...sorry.."

    the economy is fucked. the unemployment rate is fucked. how can the economy get back up to speed when people are not working to make money to spend in the economy??? it has been proven that private sector employers are not hiring people, they are saving that money because the economy is so bad and they need to pay who they currently employ and still maintain a profit.

    the federal government is offering billions of dollars for infrastructure projects. why not take them up on that offer, get people back to work, and get a new tunnel?

    actually what are you recommendations since you are coming at me like you have a plan that is better than everyone else's....

    edit to add: i find it really funny that congress is offering this money and people are not taking it on principle and then saying things like "actions speak louder than words". actually the action was offering the cash. and the reaction was not taking them up on it. it is like really, what do you want pelosi and co. to do? they are damned it they do and damned if they don't....who looks worse in that situation? it depends on what you believe to be right and wrong.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • What I want is for the government to STOP OFFERING MONEY THEY DON'T HAVE. The economy is never going to get better at this rate and it's BECAUSE of the spending. This Congress needs to extend the Bush-era tax cuts or this nation will face the highest tax increase since World War Two. I'm not interested in having my taxes go up to pay for government programs which are not working.

    If they were truly interested in jump-starting the economy, they would create incentives for employers to start hiring again in the forms of tax breaks, etc. The American business owner is being choked by higher taxes and more bullshit regulations. This government is too big and we don't need them throwing worthless money at problems while stiffling growth and the working class, who, by the way, is the engine of prosperity.
    Bristow, VA (5/13/10)
  • OnTheEdgeOnTheEdge Posts: 1,300
    yeah so don't employ the out of work workers or anything..

    really, people can not have it both ways. they can not complain about the economy and the debt, and the lack of jobs. the tunnel would be paid for evenutally. why not petition the federal government for the infrastructure money?? there is tremendous upside for the new tunnel. for one it would relieve the pressure on the existing one.

    you can solve only one of these problems:

    so don't fund the tunnel, but what are you going to tell your constituents when there is a chance to put them back to work and you refuse to do it?

    Where is the money going to come from in the first place? We can petition the government for all the money in the world, but aren't we digging our whole deeper by spending what we don't have?

    The answer isn't for more government "stimulus." If President Goodwrench had "stimulated" the private sector instead of pissing away $800 billion dollars, things would probably be better. He doesn't seem to understand the idea that we eventually have to pay back all of this money.

    By the way, Pelosi and the rest of the corrupt hacks in the 111th Congress can stop telling us how concerned they are. Actions speak louder than words. If they don't vote to extend the Bush tax cuts, it proves they are full of shit.
    this is not about what obama stimulated. this is about having a chance to get people back to work and this guy has to look those people in the eye and say "i'm sorry i had the chance to take federal money to get this going and get you back to work, but since i am seeking higher office i have to stand by principle and not help you all...sorry.."

    the economy is fucked. the unemployment rate is fucked. how can the economy get back up to speed when people are not working to make money to spend in the economy??? it has been proven that private sector employers are not hiring people, they are saving that money because the economy is so bad and they need to pay who they currently employ and still maintain a profit.

    the federal government is offering billions of dollars for infrastructure projects. why not take them up on that offer, get people back to work, and get a new tunnel?

    actually what are you recommendations since you are coming at me like you have a plan that is better than everyone else's....

    edit to add: i find it really funny that congress is offering this money and people are not taking it on principle and then saying things like "actions speak louder than words". actually the action was offering the cash. and the reaction was not taking them up on it. it is like really, what do you want pelosi and co. to do? they are damned it they do and damned if they don't....who looks worse in that situation? it depends on what you believe to be right and wrong.


    You gotta be kidding me! What did the first stimulus package actually do? When are people going to realize this government has got to stop spending money? This has already been tried by this administration with the first stimulus, remember, when we had to save all the teachers and firemen. But then they had to pass another one, remember, to save all the teachers and firemen. It baffles me that some people will still support government stimulus projects after all the bullshit. Here's an idea....how about they use some of the 380 billion still left from the FIRST stimulus. But don't forget....they have to put about 22 million aside for the prisoners and the deceased.

    It's quite obvious by now that Washington does not know what the hell they are doing when it comes to fiscal responsibility.

    http://www.reformer.com/ci_16283744?source=most_emailed
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    OnTheEdge wrote:
    You gotta be kidding me! What did the first stimulus package actually do? When are people going to realize this government has got to stop spending money? This has already been tried by this administration with the first stimulus, remember, when we had to save all the teachers and firemen. But then they had to pass another one, remember, to save all the teachers and firemen. It baffles me that some people will still support government stimulus projects after all the bullshit. Here's an idea....how about they use some of the 380 billion still left from the FIRST stimulus. But don't forget....they have to put about 22 million aside for the prisoners and the deceased.

    It's quite obvious by now that Washington does not know what the hell they are doing when it comes to fiscal responsibility.

    http://www.reformer.com/ci_16283744?source=most_emailed
    the first stimulus actually did help. it funded a lot of things and helped create some jobs.

    it is funny how you refer to it as "saving" teachers and firemen. teachers have probably the most important job of all. they are the ones that keep our kids from growing up and being complete fucking morons...they babysit our kids while both parents go to work to be able to make ends meet. i have read articles about teachers who spend more time with kids than parents do. if you want to fix this society you HAVE to fund education. ever wonder why when you talk to any teacher they complain about having to paint their own classrooms, clean their own rooms aftr school, and pay for things like paper and toner to print off educational materials? because there is no funding for it. you want to make education better for kids AND teachers? then fund it appropriately...so go ahead and cut education funding and see how much further we regress. it sickens me to think that there are old men sitting in the government making decisions to not fund things as important as education. this country one day will reap what we have sown when our economy is that of a third world country and the average intelligence of a drone who was taught to only pass a standardized test instead of experiencing a well rounded, complete curriculum.

    and to not fund firefights, to be against funding them is beyond ridiculous. see this thread

    viewtopic.php?f=13&t=141748

    perhaps if we actually "saved" firefighters this man would not have had to stand by and watch fucking "firefighters" standing there watching his house burn to the ground and in the process killing his 3 dogs and a cat....

    it doesn't matter who the tea party nominates, because they will not win with decisions they have made that negatively affect their constituents.

    also, to whoever posted it earler, how does allowing tax cuts to expire equate to a tax increase when the republican led congress wrote into the legislation that they are to expire in 2010???...it was planned by them, the republicans, the authors of the bill, to be that way because the congressional rules would not allow them to make them permanent without jumping through more hoops that would have led to that bill's failure.....oh yeah, wait, that part is obama's fault too :roll: :roll:
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • OnTheEdge wrote:
    You gotta be kidding me! What did the first stimulus package actually do? When are people going to realize this government has got to stop spending money? This has already been tried by this administration with the first stimulus, remember, when we had to save all the teachers and firemen. But then they had to pass another one, remember, to save all the teachers and firemen. It baffles me that some people will still support government stimulus projects after all the bullshit. Here's an idea....how about they use some of the 380 billion still left from the FIRST stimulus. But don't forget....they have to put about 22 million aside for the prisoners and the deceased.

    It's quite obvious by now that Washington does not know what the hell they are doing when it comes to fiscal responsibility.

    http://www.reformer.com/ci_16283744?source=most_emailed
    the first stimulus actually did help. it funded a lot of things and helped create some jobs.

    it is funny how you refer to it as "saving" teachers and firemen. teachers have probably the most important job of all. they are the ones that keep our kids from growing up and being complete fucking morons...they babysit our kids while both parents go to work to be able to make ends meet. i have read articles about teachers who spend more time with kids than parents do. if you want to fix this society you HAVE to fund education. ever wonder why when you talk to any teacher they complain about having to paint their own classrooms, clean their own rooms aftr school, and pay for things like paper and toner to print off educational materials? because there is no funding for it. you want to make education better for kids AND teachers? then fund it appropriately...so go ahead and cut education funding and see how much further we regress. it sickens me to think that there are old men sitting in the government making decisions to not fund things as important as education. this country one day will reap what we have sown when our economy is that of a third world country and the average intelligence of a drone who was taught to only pass a standardized test instead of experiencing a well rounded, complete curriculum.

    and to not fund firefights, to be against funding them is beyond ridiculous. see this thread

    http://community.pearljam.com/viewtopic ... 3&t=141748

    perhaps if we actually "saved" firefighters this man would not have had to stand by and watch fucking "firefighters" standing there watching his house burn to the ground and in the process killing his 3 dogs and a cat....

    it doesn't matter who the tea party nominates, because they will not win with decisions they have made that negatively affect their constituents.

    also, to whoever posted it earler, how does allowing tax cuts to expire equate to a tax increase when the republican led congress wrote into the legislation that they are to expire in 2010???...it was planned by them, the republicans, the authors of the bill, to be that way because the congressional rules would not allow them to make them permanent without jumping through more hoops that would have led to that bill's failure.....oh yeah, wait, that part is obama's fault too :roll: :roll:

    You're missing the point. Congress has the chance to keep a good thing going with the Bush tax cuts. Hell, if they really wanted to help, they could even make some corporate tax cuts and further stimulate small business. If they REALLY wanted to pull their heads out of their asses and further help, they could cut government payrolls and and services and allow the private sector to pick them up. Just think of how fast the national debt would come down once we cut the bloated bureaucracies down.

    You shoudn't exonerate the Obama administration so willingly. THEIR policies are the reason education and other worthwhile programs will be underfunded for generations to come. You need to remember that Obama has piled up more debt than quite a few presidents before him COMBINED. This experiment in American socialism has failed and it's failure will ring through history and the ears of voters for quite a while.
    Bristow, VA (5/13/10)
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    OnTheEdge wrote:
    You gotta be kidding me! What did the first stimulus package actually do? When are people going to realize this government has got to stop spending money? This has already been tried by this administration with the first stimulus, remember, when we had to save all the teachers and firemen. But then they had to pass another one, remember, to save all the teachers and firemen. It baffles me that some people will still support government stimulus projects after all the bullshit. Here's an idea....how about they use some of the 380 billion still left from the FIRST stimulus. But don't forget....they have to put about 22 million aside for the prisoners and the deceased.

    It's quite obvious by now that Washington does not know what the hell they are doing when it comes to fiscal responsibility.

    http://www.reformer.com/ci_16283744?source=most_emailed
    the first stimulus actually did help. it funded a lot of things and helped create some jobs.

    it is funny how you refer to it as "saving" teachers and firemen. teachers have probably the most important job of all. they are the ones that keep our kids from growing up and being complete fucking morons...they babysit our kids while both parents go to work to be able to make ends meet. i have read articles about teachers who spend more time with kids than parents do. if you want to fix this society you HAVE to fund education. ever wonder why when you talk to any teacher they complain about having to paint their own classrooms, clean their own rooms aftr school, and pay for things like paper and toner to print off educational materials? because there is no funding for it. you want to make education better for kids AND teachers? then fund it appropriately...so go ahead and cut education funding and see how much further we regress. it sickens me to think that there are old men sitting in the government making decisions to not fund things as important as education. this country one day will reap what we have sown when our economy is that of a third world country and the average intelligence of a drone who was taught to only pass a standardized test instead of experiencing a well rounded, complete curriculum.

    and to not fund firefights, to be against funding them is beyond ridiculous. see this thread

    viewtopic.php?f=13&t=141748

    perhaps if we actually "saved" firefighters this man would not have had to stand by and watch fucking "firefighters" standing there watching his house burn to the ground and in the process killing his 3 dogs and a cat....

    it doesn't matter who the tea party nominates, because they will not win with decisions they have made that negatively affect their constituents.

    also, to whoever posted it earler, how does allowing tax cuts to expire equate to a tax increase when the republican led congress wrote into the legislation that they are to expire in 2010???...it was planned by them, the republicans, the authors of the bill, to be that way because the congressional rules would not allow them to make them permanent without jumping through more hoops that would have led to that bill's failure.....oh yeah, wait, that part is obama's fault too :roll: :roll:

    more important than creating jobs is creating wealth. If all you do is take a huge pool of money and divide it up those jobs go away after the funds run out.
    The important thing is to get the economy growing, creating new businesses or allowing companies to hire more employees. One way to do that is through tax breaks for small businesses, another way to do it is to create a new industry(green technologies for instance) through legislation like mandating light bulb changes or giving incentives to companies that create things like clean coal technology or more efficient solar panels, or allow private citizens to have more of their money to spend in a store for goods they need. Putting 50 million dollars out there for a project is great, but that doesn't translate into job creation. It might be a semantics game, and "technically" there is a job where there wasn't one, but you aren't creating jobs, you are getting people back to work. At best that type of thinking can only get the US back to where it was,
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    You're missing the point. Congress has the chance to keep a good thing going with the Bush tax cuts. Hell, if they really wanted to help, they could even make some corporate tax cuts and further stimulate small business. If they REALLY wanted to pull their heads out of their asses and further help, they could cut government payrolls and and services and allow the private sector to pick them up. Just think of how fast the national debt would come down once we cut the bloated bureaucracies down.

    You shoudn't exonerate the Obama administration so willingly. THEIR policies are the reason education and other worthwhile programs will be underfunded for generations to come. You need to remember that Obama has piled up more debt than quite a few presidents before him COMBINED. This experiment in American socialism has failed and it's failure will ring through history and the ears of voters for quite a while.

    my friend, i think you are forgetting that obama did not pass no child left behind, which is the biggest problem in the education system today. it was good in theory, but bush dramatically underfunded it. if you are going to have it, fucking fund it so that it can become a good thing or drop it. it is that simple, adhere to the policy and fund it, or end the policy.

    and by the way, i could take you to task for it and ask your for specifics to back your assessment, but instead i will say that you just lost all credibility with me by playing the "experiment in american socilaism" card. it is unfounded and is a tired argument. have a nice day. :wave:
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    more important than creating jobs is creating wealth. If all you do is take a huge pool of money and divide it up those jobs go away after the funds run out.
    The important thing is to get the economy growing, creating new businesses or allowing companies to hire more employees. One way to do that is through tax breaks for small businesses, another way to do it is to create a new industry(green technologies for instance) through legislation like mandating light bulb changes or giving incentives to companies that create things like clean coal technology or more efficient solar panels, or allow private citizens to have more of their money to spend in a store for goods they need. Putting 50 million dollars out there for a project is great, but that doesn't translate into job creation. It might be a semantics game, and "technically" there is a job where there wasn't one, but you aren't creating jobs, you are getting people back to work. At best that type of thinking can only get the US back to where it was,
    because the bush tax cuts have been sooooooo effective in stimulating the economy and creating jobs, right? where are the jobs allegedly created by the rich who require these tax cuts? oh yeah, there are none...because the unemployment rate is still nearly 10% and as a result of these tax cuts that is billions of dollars in the budget that we have been short every year since they went into effect. does it make any difference that our manufacturing base is moved over seas because workers will work for pennies an hour instead of having to pay an american worker a living wage? if i were a corporation i know where i would manufacture things to save on overhead and costs...

    all i know is i would not want to be the asshole to make decisions as far as cutting the programs that many people rely on like welfare and social security. but that is just me...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • OnTheEdgeOnTheEdge Posts: 1,300
    OnTheEdge wrote:
    You gotta be kidding me! What did the first stimulus package actually do? When are people going to realize this government has got to stop spending money? This has already been tried by this administration with the first stimulus, remember, when we had to save all the teachers and firemen. But then they had to pass another one, remember, to save all the teachers and firemen. It baffles me that some people will still support government stimulus projects after all the bullshit. Here's an idea....how about they use some of the 380 billion still left from the FIRST stimulus. But don't forget....they have to put about 22 million aside for the prisoners and the deceased.

    It's quite obvious by now that Washington does not know what the hell they are doing when it comes to fiscal responsibility.

    http://www.reformer.com/ci_16283744?source=most_emailed
    the first stimulus actually did help. it funded a lot of things and helped create some jobs.

    it is funny how you refer to it as "saving" teachers and firemen. teachers have probably the most important job of all. they are the ones that keep our kids from growing up and being complete fucking morons...they babysit our kids while both parents go to work to be able to make ends meet. i have read articles about teachers who spend more time with kids than parents do. if you want to fix this society you HAVE to fund education. ever wonder why when you talk to any teacher they complain about having to paint their own classrooms, clean their own rooms aftr school, and pay for things like paper and toner to print off educational materials? because there is no funding for it. you want to make education better for kids AND teachers? then fund it appropriately...so go ahead and cut education funding and see how much further we regress. it sickens me to think that there are old men sitting in the government making decisions to not fund things as important as education. this country one day will reap what we have sown when our economy is that of a third world country and the average intelligence of a drone who was taught to only pass a standardized test instead of experiencing a well rounded, complete curriculum.

    and to not fund firefights, to be against funding them is beyond ridiculous. see this thread

    http://community.pearljam.com/viewtopic ... 3&t=141748

    perhaps if we actually "saved" firefighters this man would not have had to stand by and watch fucking "firefighters" standing there watching his house burn to the ground and in the process killing his 3 dogs and a cat....

    it doesn't matter who the tea party nominates, because they will not win with decisions they have made that negatively affect their constituents.

    also, to whoever posted it earler, how does allowing tax cuts to expire equate to a tax increase when the republican led congress wrote into the legislation that they are to expire in 2010???...it was planned by them, the republicans, the authors of the bill, to be that way because the congressional rules would not allow them to make them permanent without jumping through more hoops that would have led to that bill's failure.....oh yeah, wait, that part is obama's fault too :roll: :roll:


    Completely missing the point. But to your example about the firefighters, the only person to blame here is the mayor...really, i'm not kidding, just ask the people that had their house burn down. I don't expect firefighters to lose their jobs and give up the paycheck that feeds their families because someone couldn't pay 75 bucks annualy. Is it a shitty law? Absolutely. But the firefighters were following protocol. Only people that can't think outside the box would blame the firefighters. But to fix this problem, they either need to change the law, build this town a small fire department, or pay the 75 dollars a year. Law is law, but i forget how to some people on here the word ILLEGAL means nothing.
  • You're missing the point. Congress has the chance to keep a good thing going with the Bush tax cuts. Hell, if they really wanted to help, they could even make some corporate tax cuts and further stimulate small business. If they REALLY wanted to pull their heads out of their asses and further help, they could cut government payrolls and and services and allow the private sector to pick them up. Just think of how fast the national debt would come down once we cut the bloated bureaucracies down.

    You shoudn't exonerate the Obama administration so willingly. THEIR policies are the reason education and other worthwhile programs will be underfunded for generations to come. You need to remember that Obama has piled up more debt than quite a few presidents before him COMBINED. This experiment in American socialism has failed and it's failure will ring through history and the ears of voters for quite a while.

    my friend, i think you are forgetting that obama did not pass no child left behind, which is the biggest problem in the education system today. it was good in theory, but bush dramatically underfunded it. if you are going to have it, fucking fund it so that it can become a good thing or drop it. it is that simple, adhere to the policy and fund it, or end the policy.

    and by the way, i could take you to task for it and ask your for specifics to back your assessment, but instead i will say that you just lost all credibility with me by playing the "experiment in american socilaism" card. it is unfounded and is a tired argument. have a nice day. :wave:

    I say it with respect, but I must question anyone who would repeatedly defend this administration despite their constant failures. I wish you a great day as well.
    Bristow, VA (5/13/10)
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    You're missing the point. Congress has the chance to keep a good thing going with the Bush tax cuts. Hell, if they really wanted to help, they could even make some corporate tax cuts and further stimulate small business. If they REALLY wanted to pull their heads out of their asses and further help, they could cut government payrolls and and services and allow the private sector to pick them up. Just think of how fast the national debt would come down once we cut the bloated bureaucracies down.

    You shoudn't exonerate the Obama administration so willingly. THEIR policies are the reason education and other worthwhile programs will be underfunded for generations to come. You need to remember that Obama has piled up more debt than quite a few presidents before him COMBINED. This experiment in American socialism has failed and it's failure will ring through history and the ears of voters for quite a while.

    my friend, i think you are forgetting that obama did not pass no child left behind, which is the biggest problem in the education system today. it was good in theory, but bush dramatically underfunded it. if you are going to have it, fucking fund it so that it can become a good thing or drop it. it is that simple, adhere to the policy and fund it, or end the policy.

    and by the way, i could take you to task for it and ask your for specifics to back your assessment, but instead i will say that you just lost all credibility with me by playing the "experiment in american socilaism" card. it is unfounded and is a tired argument. have a nice day. :wave:

    I say it with respect, but I must question anyone who would repeatedly defend this administration despite their constant failures. I wish you a great day as well.
    evidently you do not read my posts, because i am a vocal critic of many of his policies. mainly because he has not done enough, but when the "party of no" blocks every attempt to do anything meaningful it is hard for any man to pass the agenda that he wants. but that is a topic for a different thread...

    he is many things, but a socialist he is not, and you asserting that he is would offend a true socialist...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,158
    Focusing back on the original issue at hand, after doing a little research, these are the issues at hand:

    * Project cost is $8.7B
    * Federal Government is funding $3B
    * Average cost overruns on large infrastructure jobs in Jersey is 30%
    * Taxes on gas would need to increase
    * Christie has pledged not to increase taxes
    * New Jerseys Transportation Fund is running on empty
    * New York will not help fund the tunnel because they have two major subway renovations and a major bridge renovation in the near future

    Tunnel jobs are risky but they do help ease congestion. The Boston "Big Dig" is a prime example for a worst case scenario (Job Estimate $2.8B; Actual Cost $14.6B; Additional Interest Due $7B).

    Most likely, Christie's move was a negotiating move to have either New York or the Feds agree to cover any potential cost overruns. Since he has the power to veto, he has a tremendous amount of leverage.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,158
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Putting 50 million dollars out there for a project is great, but that doesn't translate into job creation. It might be a semantics game, and "technically" there is a job where there wasn't one, but you aren't creating jobs, you are getting people back to work. At best that type of thinking can only get the US back to where it was,
    Most of the stimulus money in my area goes to highway repairs. The asphalt and paving companies are making serious bank but it has had almost zero effect on the rest of the construction industry. It is nice to have some temporary jobs, but it does nothing but provide a short-term boost to the paving contractors, most of whom are not local. Heavy-highway jobs don't have the same payback as typical commercial construction. If $500M is spent on a factory, that factory creates 200 jobs, plus it will end up supporting numerous other businesses who employ more jobs, and create more tax revenue for the local, state, and federal governments. On the other hand, $500M in re-paving roads has less tangible effects.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    because the bush tax cuts have been sooooooo effective in stimulating the economy and creating jobs, right? where are the jobs allegedly created by the rich who require these tax cuts? oh yeah, there are none


    well, actually when the bush tax cuts went through up until something non-related to tax cuts blew up the economy things weren't that bad. After the economy goes through a recession like this, it takes a while for things to come back, the answer ins't taking more money from people, and by the way, it is all people who will be affected by these tax cuts.

    Want to stop manufacturing from going over seas, tie tax breaks to american factories...give an incentive to do it, that is a legislative measure that would work...why on earth did you focus on that small part of what I said and ignore everything else. Explain to me how temporary jobs fixes the economy. Also the stimulus that was supposed to bring the unemployment rate down hasn't worked.
    gimmie wrote:
    ...because the unemployment rate is still nearly 10% and as a result of these tax cuts that is billions of dollars in the budget that we have been short every year since they went into effect

    IT IS NOT THEIR FUCKING MONEY!!!!! Quit spending more than you have, very simple.
    gimmie wrote:
    all i know is i would not want to be the asshole to make decisions as far as cutting the programs that many people rely on like welfare and social security. but that is just me...

    Running a state and trying to keep it above water doesn't make you an asshole, it means you need to make tough decisions based on the policies you think will help out the most. No one can benefit from every decision. It just isn't possible.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Jason P wrote:
    Most of the stimulus money in my area goes to highway repairs. The asphalt and paving companies are making serious bank but it has had almost zero effect on the rest of the construction industry. It is nice to have some temporary jobs, but it does nothing but provide a short-term boost to the paving contractors, most of whom are not local. Heavy-highway jobs don't have the same payback as typical commercial construction. If $500M is spent on a factory, that factory creates 200 jobs, plus it will end up supporting numerous other businesses who employ more jobs, and create more tax revenue for the local, state, and federal governments. On the other hand, $500M in re-paving roads has less tangible effects.
    ...
    True... but the variable in this is... a factory making what? Factories are closing in this country every day because the goods they are manufacturing aren't competative with the factories in India and China.
    As for the highways... those workers now have money to spend or save... but, we all get the widened corridor from Long Beach and Los Angeles that is going to last for a few decades.
    Californisa really needs to fix our levee system through the Central Valley.... if all of these other people don't want the 'Stimulus' money... we'll take it because our levee system is a vital project that has been neglected for decades because no one here wants their taxes raised to pay for it.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    interesting, although i will say that i am not too terribly surprised...it was a close vote, but there was a large number of delegates who did not vote for some reason...i wonder if this will continue or if palin will be their choice after all..

    Sarah Palin no longer the darling of her own tea party
    Tea Party convention delegates put her in shock second position to Chris Christie for their choice for president in 2012

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/20 ... party-2012

    Over the past year Sarah Palin has established herself as the queen of the Tea Party movement. Her endorsements have helped Tea Party candidates oust established Republicans in races across the country.

    But even among the hardcore of tea partygoers it cannot be assumed she reigns supreme. A canvass of delegates to the Tea Party Patriots convention in Richmond over the weekend put her in shock second position for their choice for president in 2012.

    More than 1,500 delegates voted out of about 2,300 who attended the two-day event. Palin polled 13.5% of the votes and was pipped to the post by Chris Christie, the governor of New Jersey, on 14%.

    At first glance it seemed an odd choice. Sarah Palin, the darling of the movement, versus a relatively little-known governor who has professed his intention not to run in 2012.

    Until you take on board what Christie did last week. On Thursday he cancelled the $8.7bn (£5.5bn) tunnel under the Hudson river, the second rail tunnel that would have linked New Jersey and New York, easing congestion on the lines and taking the steam out of the increasingly clogged up roads.

    For progressive economists such as the Nobel prizewinning Paul Krugman, that was a "destructive and incredibly foolish decision on multiple levels". It confirmed, the New York Times columnist wrote, that America has become "a nation whose politicians seem to compete over who can show the least vision, the least concern about the future and the greatest willingness to pander to short-term, narrow-minded selfishness".

    For the Tea Party crowd, Christie's surprise act was an heroic blow struck against big government and one of its most egregious manifestations – public transport. Government should leave us alone, is the rallying cry you hear everywhere from the Tea Party followers. Let us get on with our lives, enjoying our freedom and liberty in our private cars as we crawl along in mile-upon-mile of traffic.
    ...
    Still... goes to show that Palin is still rated high up there in Tea Party lore. Even if she seems to be spending most of her time here in Hollywood or out in New York, instead of with the 'Real Americans' in East Bumfucking, North Dakota.
    Also goes to show that the Tea Party is more Republican, than independent.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    Cosmo wrote:
    Also goes to show that the Tea Party is more Republican, than independent.
    that has been obvious since day one...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    because the bush tax cuts have been sooooooo effective in stimulating the economy and creating jobs, right? where are the jobs allegedly created by the rich who require these tax cuts? oh yeah, there are none


    well, actually when the bush tax cuts went through up until something non-related to tax cuts blew up the economy things weren't that bad. After the economy goes through a recession like this, it takes a while for things to come back, the answer ins't taking more money from people, and by the way, it is all people who will be affected by these tax cuts.

    Want to stop manufacturing from going over seas, tie tax breaks to american factories...give an incentive to do it, that is a legislative measure that would work...why on earth did you focus on that small part of what I said and ignore everything else. Explain to me how temporary jobs fixes the economy. Also the stimulus that was supposed to bring the unemployment rate down hasn't worked.
    gimmie wrote:
    ...because the unemployment rate is still nearly 10% and as a result of these tax cuts that is billions of dollars in the budget that we have been short every year since they went into effect

    IT IS NOT THEIR FUCKING MONEY!!!!! Quit spending more than you have, very simple.
    gimmie wrote:
    all i know is i would not want to be the asshole to make decisions as far as cutting the programs that many people rely on like welfare and social security. but that is just me...

    Running a state and trying to keep it above water doesn't make you an asshole, it means you need to make tough decisions based on the policies you think will help out the most. No one can benefit from every decision. It just isn't possible.
    i know it is all people who will see taxes increase. i have been paying attention. and obama is not "raising taxes", congress is letting the tax cuts expire because they keep adding shit on to the tax bills like "no health care for immigrants that are sick from working on 9/11". there is no way that bill was going to pass when you add shit like that onto it. obama would keep the tax cuts in place for 98% of all people. he has stated that ad nauseum...

    you sound like a broken record, "tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts"...the current taxes are not that burdensome for most people, and the corporations can afford them as well. tax cuts is not the answer. trickle down economics has failed. the rich have not created jobs at all, like so many of them claim that they do. corporations went over seas not for taxes only, but to save money on labor so the ceo can buy things like a $6000 shower curtain.

    so are you in favor of getting rid of welfare and social security? you sound like you are. and that is what these teabaggers would do if they ever got elected.

    i think it is a very shitty thing to do to sell out your beliefs and principles for the sake of votes, and because of that all politicians are whores. including palin and this dude in new jersey.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • i only wish the tea baggers were as passionate about the wasting billions of dollars on wars and supporting illegal occupations.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    i only wish the tea baggers were as passionate about the wasting billions of dollars on wars and supporting illegal occupations.
    i agree.

    they are so fired up about spending, but being lied to to spend 1 trillion in iraq just doesn't bother them for some reason.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    as long as taxes are lower they will go along with anything...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • OnTheEdgeOnTheEdge Posts: 1,300
    Federal deficit with and without the Iraq war.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/08/ ... s_not.html
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    i know it is all people who will see taxes increase. i have been paying attention. and obama is not "raising taxes", congress is letting the tax cuts expire because they keep adding shit on to the tax bills like "no health care for immigrants that are sick from working on 9/11". there is no way that bill was going to pass when you add shit like that onto it. obama would keep the tax cuts in place for 98% of all people. he has stated that ad nauseum...

    you sound like a broken record, "tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts"...the current taxes are not that burdensome for most people, and the corporations can afford them as well. tax cuts is not the answer. trickle down economics has failed. the rich have not created jobs at all, like so many of them claim that they do. corporations went over seas not for taxes only, but to save money on labor so the ceo can buy things like a $6000 shower curtain.

    so are you in favor of getting rid of welfare and social security? you sound like you are. and that is what these teabaggers would do if they ever got elected.

    i think it is a very shitty thing to do to sell out your beliefs and principles for the sake of votes, and because of that all politicians are whores. including palin and this dude in new jersey.

    First off, you didn't answer my question, how does creating temporary jobs fix the economy?

    secondly, tax cuts are necessary. Personally I think that everyone could use a little more money in their pocket. And really they don't even have to be cuts per se, but breaks and incentives to keep work in the US. I don't see what is wrong with that. Putting more money in the pockets of the people who earn it is always better. I promise you more people would agree if they had to write out checks for their own taxes.
    Yes, social security is something that millions of Americans pay into that won't be there when we get old enough. Explain to me how they are losing money...how are people getting more out of it than what they put in? I don't understand it. I would much rather be able to choose to participate or not. Why is it forced on me? I can take care of my own retirement thanks.
    As far as welfare goes, no I understand the importance of help in these situations but I would like to see something done to change the incentive not to work. In order to receive benefits you need to make under a certain amount, why not make it that in order to receive more benefits you need to be showing that you are beginning to make money. After a certain time of you making money about the line then you are terminated. Make people earn the money they get and you will be surprised how much better they will feel about their lives.
    But I will end it with the same question. explain to me how creating a temporary job that puts people back to work for a short period of time is going to solve the economic crisis?
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
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