Israel = A Racist State

ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
edited October 2010 in A Moving Train
There really is no place in the world for Ethnic Nationalism. This is a dangerous, odious development indeed.

http://www.counterpunch.org/neumann10142009.html
'The very ideology of homelands and peoples under whose auspices the Jews were all but exterminated has become the sustaining ideology of Israel, a state devoted to Jewish ethnic sovereignty.'





http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oc ... w-citizens

Israel proposes Jewish state loyalty oath for new citizens

Loyalty pledge criticised as 'fascist' and an affront to country's Palestinian citizens, who make up 20% of population

Harriet Sherwood in Jerusalem
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 10 October 2010



The Israeli cabinet today approved a bill requiring new non-Jewish citizens to swear an oath of allegiance to Israel as a "Jewish and democratic state", in a move that has brought accusations of discrimination against Israel's Arab minority. One dissenting cabinet minister referred to a "whiff of fascism".

The bill, originally promoted by the rightwing foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, who has made the issue of loyalty a hallmark of his political career, was passed by a big majority despite the opposition of Labour party members.

The loyalty oath will be required of non-Jews seeking to become Israeli citizens, mainly affecting Palestinians from the West Bank who marry Palestinian citizens of Israel.

The latter, who make up 20% of Israel's population, have vigorously criticised the proposal – which needs approval from the Knesset before becoming law – as provocative and racist. It has also drawn protests from Israeli Jews, including those in the cabinet.

Isaac Herzog, the social affairs minister, told Israel's army radio: "There is a whiff of fascism on the margins of Israeli society. The overall picture is very disturbing and threatens the democratic character of the state of Israel. There have been a tsunami of measures that limit rights ... We will pay a heavy price for this."

Lieberman campaigned in last year's election for a loyalty oath to be required of all existing Palestinian citizens of Israel. The bill put to the vote today drew back from that, applying only to future citizens. "I think this is an important step forward. Obviously this is not the end of the issue of loyalty in return for citizenship, but this is a highly important step," Lieberman said.

At the start of the cabinet meeting, the prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, said: "The state of Israel is the national state of the Jewish people and is a democratic state in which all its citizens – Jewish and non-Jewish – enjoy full equal rights ... Whoever wants to join us, has to recognise us."

It was suggested that Netanyahu backed the bill as a quid pro quo for support from rightwing parties within his coalition government should he bow to US pressure to extend the freeze on settlement construction. The moratorium, which expired two weeks ago, is threatening to scupper talks on a peace deal with the Palestinians.

Ahmed Tibi, an Israeli-Arab member of the Knesset, condemned the cabinet's decision. "The government of Israel has become subservient to Yisrael Beiteinu [Lieberman's party] and its fascist doctrine," he said. "No other state in the world would force its citizens or those seeking citizenship to pledge allegiance to an ideology."

The speaker of the Knesset, Reuven Rivlin, also criticised the proposal. "This law will not assist us as a society and a state," he said. "On the contrary, it could arm our enemies and opponents in the world in an effort to emphasise the trend for separatism or even racism within Israel."

Likud cabinet members Dan Meridor, Benny Begin and Michael Eitan opposed the bill along with Labour ministers.

Writing in today's Haaretz, liberal commentator Gideon Levy said: "Remember this day. It's the day Israel changes its character ... From now on, we will be living in a new, officially approved, ethnocratic, theocratic, nationalistic and racist country."
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  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/op ... l-1.318135

    The Jewish Republic of Israel

    Swearing an oath to a Jewish state will decide its fate. It is liable to turn the country into a theocracy like Saudi Arabia.

    By Gideon Levy


    Remember this day. It's the day Israel changes its character. As a result, it can also change its name to the Jewish Republic of Israel, like the Islamic Republic of Iran. Granted, the loyalty oath bill that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is seeking to have passed purportedly only deals with new citizens who are not Jewish, but it affects the fate of all of us.

    From now on, we will be living in a new, officially approved, ethnocratic, theocratic, nationalistic and racist country. Anyone who thinks it doesn't affect him is mistaken. There is a silent majority that is accepting this with worrying apathy, as if to say: "I don't care what country I live in." Also anyone who thinks the world will continue to relate to Israel as a democracy after this law doesn't understand what it is about. It's another step that seriously harms Israel's image.

    Prime Minister Netanyahu will prove today that he is actually Yisrael Beinteinu leader Avigdor Lieberman, and Justice Minister Yaakov Neeman will prove he is really a loyal member of Yisrael Beiteinu. The Labor party will prove it is nothing more than a doormat. And Israel today will prove that it doesn't care about anything. Today the loyalty oath bill, soon the loyalty oath law. The dam will overflow today, threatening to drown the remnants of democracy until we are left perhaps with a Jewish state of a character that no one really understands, but it certainly won't be a democracy. Those demanding this loyalty oath are the ones misappropriating loyalty to the state.

    At its next session, the Knesset is to debate close to 20 other anti-democratic bills. Over the weekend, the Association for Civil Rights in Israel issued a blacklist of legislation: a loyalty law for Knesset members; a loyalty law for film production; a loyalty law for non-profits; putting the Palestinian catastrophe, the Nakba, beyond the scope of the law; a ban on calls for a boycott; and a bill for the revocation of citizenship. It's a dangerous McCarthyist dance on the part of ignorant legislators who haven't begun to understand what democracy is all about. It's dangerous even if only a portion of the bills become law, because our fate and our essence will change.

    It's not hard to understand the Netanyahu-Lieberman duo. As sworn nationalists, they are not expected to understand that democracy doesn't only mean the rule of the majority, but rather first and foremost that minorities have rights. It's much harder to comprehend the complacency of the masses. Town squares should have been filled today with citizens who do not wish to live in a country where the minority is oppressed by draconian laws such as the one that forces them to swear a false oath to a Jewish state, but amazingly almost no one seems to feel affected.

    For decades, we have futilely dealt with the question of who is a Jew. Now the question of what is Jewish will not go away. What is the "state of the Jewish nation"? Does it belong more to Jews in the Diaspora than to its Arab citizens? Will they decide its fate and will this be called a democracy? Will the ultra-Orthodox Neturei Karta sect, which opposes the state's existence, along with hundreds of thousands of Jews who have avoided coming do whatever they want with it? What is Jewish? Jewish holidays? Kosher dietary laws? The increased grip of the religious establishment, as if there is not enough of it now to distort democracy? Swearing an oath to a Jewish state will decide its fate. It is liable to turn the country into a theocracy like Saudi Arabia.

    True, for the time being, it's a matter of an empty, ridiculous slogan. There aren't three Jews who could agree what a Jewish state looks like, but history has taught us that empty slogans, too, can pave the path to hell. In the meantime, the new proposed legislation will only increase Israeli Arabs' alienation and ultimately result in the alienation of much wider segments of the public.

    That's what happens when the fire is still smoldering under the rug, the fire of the basic lack of faith in the justice of our path. Only such a lack of confidence can produce such distorted proposed legislation as that which will be approved today, and clearly approval will be forthcoming. Canada doesn't need its citizens to swear an oath to the Canadian state, nor do other countries require similar acts. Only Israel. And it is being done either to provoke the Arab minority more and push them into a greater lack of loyalty so one day the time will come to finally get rid of them, or it is designed to scuttle the prospect of a peace agreement with the Palestinians. One way or another, in Basel at the First Zionist Congress in 1897, the Jewish state was founded, as Theodor Herzl said, and today the unenlightened Jewish Republic of Israel will be founded.
  • disgusting.

    and what say you on this President Obama?

    oh wait. nothing as usual. you lot have already stood before APIAC and bent over and sworn allegiance to the state of Israel. the only thing different is you'll have to add the word 'jewish' next time you do it.

    and the chosen ones. whatever. crock of shit.

    we know what happened to the last chosen one. he turned to the dark side. the State of Israel knows all about that already.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    this is absolute BS!!! how is this even fair?

    the headline reads like it would be good news, then read the article...

    settlement freeze, but with a catch, a huge catch....

    looks like the peace talks are going to fall throuh after all.. not that they had much of a chance anyway....

    Israeli PM offers conditional settlements freeze
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101011/ap_ ... lestinians

    JERUSALEM – Israel's prime minister on Monday offered to extend a moratorium on Jewish settlement construction in the West Bank, but only if the Palestinians meet his demand to recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

    With the proposal, Benjamin Netanyahu attempted to deliver a creative way to end an impasse over settlement construction that has stalled Mideast peace talks just a month after they were launched at the White House. But with its tough conditions, it was swiftly rejected by the Palestinians.

    Netanyahu has been under heavy international pressure to renew a just-expired 10-month slowdown on West Bank settlement construction. The Palestinians say they will walk away from the talks if the curbs do not remain in place.

    Netanyahu, who leads a pro-settler coalition of religious and nationalist parties, has so far resisted the calls, but has signaled he is open to a compromise. U.S. mediators have been offering a series of vague assurances on the security and diplomatic fronts to mollify Israel, but so far a deal has been elusive.

    In a policy speech to parliament, Netanyahu said he would renew the settlement curbs if the Palestinians recognize the Jewish connection to Israel.

    "If the Palestinian leadership would say unequivocally to its people that it recognizes Israel as the national homeland of the Jewish people, I will be willing to convene my government and ask for an additional suspension," he said in a speech that was repeatedly heckled by Arab lawmakers.

    Netanyahu has repeatedly made similar demands in the past, though he has never explicitly linked it to the settlement issue. On Sunday, Netanyahu's Cabinet passed a bill that would require non-Jewish immigrants to pledge allegiance to the "Jewish and democratic" state of Israel in order to receive citizenship.

    The Palestinians refuse to accept Israel as a Jewish state, saying it discriminates against Israel's Arab minority and violates the rights of millions of Palestinian refugees scattered around the world. Instead, they say it is sufficient that they recognize Israel's right to exist.

    Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat accused Netanyahu of "playing games" and said he saw no connection between Jewish settlements and Israel's national character.

    "I don't see a relevance between his obligations under international law and him trying to define the nature of Israel," he said. "I hope he will stop playing these games and will start the peace process by stopping settlements."

    Some 300,000 Jewish settlers live in the West Bank, in addition to nearly 200,000 Israelis living in Jewish neighborhoods in east Jerusalem.

    The Palestinians claim both areas, captured by Israel in the 1967 Mideast war, as parts of a future independent state and say that continued Israeli settlement construction sends a message that Israel is not serious about reaching peace.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758

    Netanyahu has been under heavy international pressure to renew a just-expired 10-month slowdown on West Bank settlement construction.

    not even a freeze, just meh we'll only bulldoze down 8 homes instead of 20 for a little while

    fucking
    inhumane
    assholes
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    disgusting.

    and what say you on this President Obama?

    oh wait. nothing as usual. you lot have already stood before APIAC and bent over and sworn allegiance to the state of Israel. the only thing different is you'll have to add the word 'jewish' next time you do it.

    and the chosen ones. whatever. crock of shit.

    we know what happened to the last chosen one. he turned to the dark side. the State of Israel knows all about that already.

    Dude, what are you talking about? Last chosen one? Dark side?
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    yosi wrote:
    disgusting.

    and what say you on this President Obama?

    oh wait. nothing as usual. you lot have already stood before APIAC and bent over and sworn allegiance to the state of Israel. the only thing different is you'll have to add the word 'jewish' next time you do it.

    and the chosen ones. whatever. crock of shit.

    we know what happened to the last chosen one. he turned to the dark side. the State of Israel knows all about that already.

    Dude, what are you talking about? Last chosen one? Dark side?
    i can't speak for T/A, but one of the ways i interpret that is it may be a star wars reference...chosen one, darkside...

    darthVader.jpg
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    yosi wrote:
    disgusting.

    and what say you on this President Obama?

    oh wait. nothing as usual. you lot have already stood before APIAC and bent over and sworn allegiance to the state of Israel. the only thing different is you'll have to add the word 'jewish' next time you do it.

    and the chosen ones. whatever. crock of shit.

    we know what happened to the last chosen one. he turned to the dark side. the State of Israel knows all about that already.

    Dude, what are you talking about? Last chosen one? Dark side?


    they don't let you watch star wars over at hasbara?

    interesting that's all you have to say about this.
  • so Netanyahu wants the Palestinians to recognise Israel as a Jewish State and if they do he will "offer" a settlement freeze. not to stop building. just a freeze. for now. then what? what's next?

    the Palestinians will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state and rightly so.

    Netanyahu is a disgusting piece of thieving garbage.

    and he wonders why he is so hated. it's nothing to do with anti-semetism, it's because he's an evil prick. it's that simple.

    asshole.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    so Netanyahu wants the Palestinians to recognise Israel as a Jewish State and if they do he will "offer" a settlement freeze. not to stop building. just a freeze. for now. then what? what's next?

    the Palestinians will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state and rightly so.

    Netanyahu is a disgusting piece of thieving garbage.

    and he wonders why he is so hated. it's nothing to do with anti-semetism, it's because he's an evil prick. it's that simple.

    asshole.
    why is it something like the settlement freeze that he is "offering".



    why not something on equal terms. say both sides agree to recognize eachother's right to exist.



    say if palestinians recognize israel, israel will recognize palestine. that seems more like a mutual concession to me.


    the land grab should stop with no conditions, its illegal.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    yosi wrote:
    disgusting.

    and what say you on this President Obama?

    oh wait. nothing as usual. you lot have already stood before APIAC and bent over and sworn allegiance to the state of Israel. the only thing different is you'll have to add the word 'jewish' next time you do it.

    and the chosen ones. whatever. crock of shit.

    we know what happened to the last chosen one. he turned to the dark side. the State of Israel knows all about that already.

    Dude, what are you talking about? Last chosen one? Dark side?

    right there with you yosi. though i knew what TA was referencing i thought the analogy was flawed.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • of course the anology is flawed. jews aren't special. they are just like everyone else.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    sure they are.. God told them so. ;)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Recognition of Israel as Jewish state poses existential threat to Israeli Arabs

    Jonathan Cook argues that Palestinian recognition of Israel as a Jewish state, as demanded by Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, would destroy the campaign by Israel’s Arab citizens to reform Israel into a true democracy and would mean that Netanyahu will have Palestinian backing to label the reformers a fifth column and expel them to bantustans in the West Bank.

    Binyamin Netanyahu, Israel's prime minister, has insisted from the launch of the current peace talks that the Palestinians set no preconditions, while making his own precondition the centrepiece of negotiations. Netanyahu has said talks are futile unless the Palestinians and their leader, Mahmoud Abbas, first recognize Israel as a Jewish state. “I recognized the Palestinians' right to self-definition, so they must do the same for the Jewish people,” he told American Jewish leaders recently.

    Netanyahu, of the right-wing Likud party, is not the first Israeli leader to make such a requirement of the Palestinians. His predecessor Tzipi Livni, leader of the centrist opposition, wanted the same recognition. Ehud Barak, the defence minister and head of the supposedly left-wing Labour party, also supports this position.

    The consensus on this matter, however, masks a reluctance by Israeli politicians to clarify what exactly is being expected of the Palestinians and why recognition is so important.

    Netanyahu clearly does not simply want the fact of Israel's existence acknowledged. That is in no doubt and, anyway, the Israeli state has been recognized by the Palestinian leadership since the late 1980s. It is recognition of the state's Jewishness, not its existence, that matters.

    Debate on this subject focuses on Israel's desire to stifle the threat of a right of return for millions of Palestinian refugees. Though doubtless a consideration, that explanation hardly suffices. It is clear to everyone that the refugees are one of the main issues to be settled in the negotiations. In the unlikely circumstances that all other obstacles to Palestinian statehood were removed, it can be assumed that the international community would work to make that particular mountain a molehill.

    The demand for recognition is directed chiefly at another party: the fifth of Israel's population who are Palestinian – the remnants of the Palestinian people who stayed on their land during the great dispossession of 1948, the Nakba, and eventually gained Israeli citizenship.

    They are only nominally represented at the talks by their state, Israel. Instead, Netanyahu hopes to use the promise of statehood to induce Abbas to sacrifice the interests of Israel's Palestinian citizens. The Palestinian minority's leaders, who have been lobbying Abbas hard in the run-up to the talks, understand what Netanyahu's demand for recognition entails.

    During the early years of the Oslo peace process, when a concession on Palestinian statehood appeared to be drawing nearer, the positions of Israel's Palestinian and Jewish leaders polarized. The assumption of Israeli politicians was that Palestinian citizens would soon either declare loyalty to a Jewish state – effectively become Zionists – or be "transferred" to the coming Palestinian state.

    Faced with this challenge, Israel's Palestinian leaders encouraged a civil rights movement, demanding equality and an end to Jewish privilege. Their campaign, under the slogan “a state of all its citizens”, implied the end of Israel as a Jewish state and its transformation into a liberal democracy.

    Over the past decade, during the years of the second intifada, relations between the two communities deteriorated further, with the Palestinian minority now routinely accused of being traitors.

    Netanyahu's latest demand should, therefore, be understood as a cynical move to bypass his own Palestinian constituency and persuade Abbas to negotiate away the rights of Israel's Palestinian citizens on his behalf.

    If the Palestinian president does recognize Israel as a Jewish state, the campaign by Israel's Palestinian citizens to reform their country into a true democracy will be over. Netanyahu will have Palestinian backing to label the reformers a fifth column and expel them to the slivers of West Bank territory he may one day deign to call a Palestinian state.

    In the meantime, he will also have Palestinian permission to institute a loyalty drive of the kind already being advanced through the Israeli parliament. Loyalty tests for individual Palestinian citizens, and the dismantlement of the Palestinian parties in the parliament unless they sign up as Zionists, would be the first measures. Rounds of expulsions could be expected later.

    If all this sounds familiar, it is because much the same programme was laid out by Israel's foreign minister last week during his controversial speech at the United Nations General Assembly. Avigdor Lieberman's plan for an “exchange of populations” would initially require border changes to force hundreds of thousands of Palestinian citizens into a Palestinian “interim state” in return for the inclusion of West Bank settlements, some deep in Palestinian territory, in the newly expanded Jewish state.

    There is one flaw in Lieberman's scheme. Many Palestinian citizens, such as those in the Galilee, are not near the West Bank and could not be exchanged through land swaps. His election slogan – “No loyalty, no citizenship” – tells the rest of a plan he has revealed to Israelis but not directly to the international community.

    Although American Jewish leaders decried Lieberman's use of the UN platform to reveal a proposal that officially counters his own government's policy, Netanyahu baffled observers by remaining demure. His officials publicly distanced him from the scheme, but then privately told the Israeli media that the prime minister did not think the plan illegitimate and that he would not "chastise" Lieberman.

    Netanyahu's silence should not surprise us. His foreign minister may be speaking more bluntly than other Israeli politicians, but he speaks for them nonetheless.




    Jonathan Cook is a writer and journalist based in Nazareth, Israel. His latest books are “Israel and the Clash of Civilisations: Iraq, Iran and the Plan to Remake the Middle East” (Pluto Press) and “Disappearing Palestine: Israel's Experiments in Human Despair” (Zed Books). His website is http://www.jkcook.net.

    http://uprootedpalestinians.blogspot.co ... state.html
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Recognition of Israel as Jewish state poses existential threat to Israeli Arabs

    Jonathan Cook argues that Palestinian recognition of Israel as a Jewish state, as demanded by Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, would destroy the campaign by Israel’s Arab citizens to reform Israel into a true democracy and would mean that Netanyahu will have Palestinian backing to label the reformers a fifth column and expel them to bantustans in the West Bank.

    Binyamin Netanyahu, Israel's prime minister, has insisted from the launch of the current peace talks that the Palestinians set no preconditions, while making his own precondition the centrepiece of negotiations. Netanyahu has said talks are futile unless the Palestinians and their leader, Mahmoud Abbas, first recognize Israel as a Jewish state. “I recognized the Palestinians' right to self-definition, so they must do the same for the Jewish people,” he told American Jewish leaders recently.

    Netanyahu, of the right-wing Likud party, is not the first Israeli leader to make such a requirement of the Palestinians. His predecessor Tzipi Livni, leader of the centrist opposition, wanted the same recognition. Ehud Barak, the defence minister and head of the supposedly left-wing Labour party, also supports this position.

    The consensus on this matter, however, masks a reluctance by Israeli politicians to clarify what exactly is being expected of the Palestinians and why recognition is so important.

    Netanyahu clearly does not simply want the fact of Israel's existence acknowledged. That is in no doubt and, anyway, the Israeli state has been recognized by the Palestinian leadership since the late 1980s. It is recognition of the state's Jewishness, not its existence, that matters.

    Debate on this subject focuses on Israel's desire to stifle the threat of a right of return for millions of Palestinian refugees. Though doubtless a consideration, that explanation hardly suffices. It is clear to everyone that the refugees are one of the main issues to be settled in the negotiations. In the unlikely circumstances that all other obstacles to Palestinian statehood were removed, it can be assumed that the international community would work to make that particular mountain a molehill.

    The demand for recognition is directed chiefly at another party: the fifth of Israel's population who are Palestinian – the remnants of the Palestinian people who stayed on their land during the great dispossession of 1948, the Nakba, and eventually gained Israeli citizenship.

    They are only nominally represented at the talks by their state, Israel. Instead, Netanyahu hopes to use the promise of statehood to induce Abbas to sacrifice the interests of Israel's Palestinian citizens. The Palestinian minority's leaders, who have been lobbying Abbas hard in the run-up to the talks, understand what Netanyahu's demand for recognition entails.

    During the early years of the Oslo peace process, when a concession on Palestinian statehood appeared to be drawing nearer, the positions of Israel's Palestinian and Jewish leaders polarized. The assumption of Israeli politicians was that Palestinian citizens would soon either declare loyalty to a Jewish state – effectively become Zionists – or be "transferred" to the coming Palestinian state.

    Faced with this challenge, Israel's Palestinian leaders encouraged a civil rights movement, demanding equality and an end to Jewish privilege. Their campaign, under the slogan “a state of all its citizens”, implied the end of Israel as a Jewish state and its transformation into a liberal democracy.

    Over the past decade, during the years of the second intifada, relations between the two communities deteriorated further, with the Palestinian minority now routinely accused of being traitors.

    Netanyahu's latest demand should, therefore, be understood as a cynical move to bypass his own Palestinian constituency and persuade Abbas to negotiate away the rights of Israel's Palestinian citizens on his behalf.

    If the Palestinian president does recognize Israel as a Jewish state, the campaign by Israel's Palestinian citizens to reform their country into a true democracy will be over. Netanyahu will have Palestinian backing to label the reformers a fifth column and expel them to the slivers of West Bank territory he may one day deign to call a Palestinian state.

    In the meantime, he will also have Palestinian permission to institute a loyalty drive of the kind already being advanced through the Israeli parliament. Loyalty tests for individual Palestinian citizens, and the dismantlement of the Palestinian parties in the parliament unless they sign up as Zionists, would be the first measures. Rounds of expulsions could be expected later.

    If all this sounds familiar, it is because much the same programme was laid out by Israel's foreign minister last week during his controversial speech at the United Nations General Assembly. Avigdor Lieberman's plan for an “exchange of populations” would initially require border changes to force hundreds of thousands of Palestinian citizens into a Palestinian “interim state” in return for the inclusion of West Bank settlements, some deep in Palestinian territory, in the newly expanded Jewish state.

    There is one flaw in Lieberman's scheme. Many Palestinian citizens, such as those in the Galilee, are not near the West Bank and could not be exchanged through land swaps. His election slogan – “No loyalty, no citizenship” – tells the rest of a plan he has revealed to Israelis but not directly to the international community.

    Although American Jewish leaders decried Lieberman's use of the UN platform to reveal a proposal that officially counters his own government's policy, Netanyahu baffled observers by remaining demure. His officials publicly distanced him from the scheme, but then privately told the Israeli media that the prime minister did not think the plan illegitimate and that he would not "chastise" Lieberman.

    Netanyahu's silence should not surprise us. His foreign minister may be speaking more bluntly than other Israeli politicians, but he speaks for them nonetheless.




    Jonathan Cook is a writer and journalist based in Nazareth, Israel. His latest books are “Israel and the Clash of Civilisations: Iraq, Iran and the Plan to Remake the Middle East” (Pluto Press) and “Disappearing Palestine: Israel's Experiments in Human Despair” (Zed Books). His website is http://www.jkcook.net.

    http://uprootedpalestinians.blogspot.co ... state.html


    the term "Jewish Republic of Israel" scary as it sounds seems to be accurate.



    so much for democracy.
  • kenny olavkenny olav Posts: 3,319
    I wonder what would happen to the world if it ever became nation-less... just one human nation... would that be entirely a good thing? If we all had the same customs and same language? But who's customs and whose language? One religion or no religion? Can the world ever be one big evolving community that shapes its own destiny, while respecting the individual? Are we to be forever tied to the cultures that formed long ago when the world was splintered by geography? Can we learn from each other now that we can instantly observe each other or are we to forever fragment ourselves? But how can we ignore the cultures we detest when we know we have good reason? On the other hand, how can we not see the errors in our own cultures, even if they are superior to other cultures? There are many sub-cultures within Israel and many within Palestine and the Arab world. I would say it's the worst segments of each set of cultures that continue to spur on the war. It doesn't make much sense anymore for either side to be tied to the complex ways in which the conflict started. It doesn't make sense for either side to consider the land to be holy. Because there is no holy land outside of one's mind. The ebb and flow of this war, which has been raging since... the Crusades... no.... the Arab conquest.... no.... the Roman conquest.... no... the Jewish conquest.... no.... the Canaanite conquest... no... NO... NO! Stop fighting all of you fucking idiots!! Put down your stupid holy books and grow the fuck up! The place could be a tropical paradise if ALL sides would just chill the fuck out and be real with each other. Maybe we should drop marijuana smoke bombs on the entire Middle East... for about a month.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    diversity can be a good thing. every culture should hold on to that, but some kind of organization where we are all working towards something similar should be the goal. instead of nation states as war machines, we could have communities, working together. instead of fighting over our differences, we could celebrate them.



    at its core, the war on terrorism, and the siege of gaza, are about the bully relationship with its victims. the US and Israel, constantly picking on others, are now faced with security problems now that the victims are fighting back. as a bully how do you react to that? IF security is your main concern, don't you think the bullying should cease? if the victims are no longer persecuted, they will have no reason to fight back. instead Israel and the US have chosen to step up the bullying, which will entice more victims to stand up for themselves, creating more "security problems" (people standing up to the bully) more needless death and violence, more hate and continuing the cycle of violence.


    that they've chosen that path is telling. no more can they be concerned with "security", with people fighting back- not sincerely. to say self defense is their goal is a lie: the hypocrites have outed themselves. they are more concerned with power and land than they are with stopping the violence, their actions prove that.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Meanwhile:


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oc ... ldren-gaza

    Israeli troops accused of shooting children in Gaza

    • Victims were scavenging for rubble, say rights groups
    • Attacks allegedly took place outside 300-metre buffer zone



    Harriet Sherwood in Beit Lahiya
    guardian.co.uk, Monday 11 October 2010



    At least 10 Palestinian children have been shot and wounded by Israeli troops in the past three months while collecting rubble in or near the "buffer zone" created by Israel along the Gaza border, in a low-intensity offensive on the fringes of the blockaded Palestinian territory.

    Israeli soldiers are routinely shooting at Gazans well beyond the unmarked boundary of the official 300 metre-wide no-go area, rights groups say.

    According to Bassam Masri, head of orthopaedics at the Kamal Odwan hospital in Beit Lahiya in the north of Gaza, about 50 people have been treated for gunshot wounds suffered in or near the buffer zone while collecting rubble in the past three months; about five have been killed.

    He estimates that 30% of the injured are boys under 18.

    Defence for Children International (DCI) has documented 10 cases of children aged 13 to 17 being shot in a three-month period between 50 and 800 metres from the border. Nine were shot in a leg or arm; one was shot in the stomach.

    The creation of the no-go area has forced farmers to abandon land and residents to leave homes for fear of coming under fire. Last month a 91-year-old man and two teenage boys were killed while harvesting olives outside the official zone when Israeli troops fired shells. Forty-three goats also died in the attack.

    In another case a mother of five was killed by a shell outside her home near the zone in July.

    Israel declared the buffer zone inside Gaza after the three-week war in 2008-9, saying it was intended to prevent militants firing rockets. It has dropped leaflets from planes several times warning local people not to venture within 300 metres of the fence that marks the border or risk being shot.

    However, the UN, aid agencies and rights groups say that Israel has unofficially and without warning extended the zone to up to 1km from the fence, leaving residents and farmers uncertain whether it is safe to access their land or property.

    "The army knows the kids are there to collect. They watch them every day and they know they have no weapons," said Mohammed Abu Rukbi, a fieldworker with DCI. "They usually fire warning shots but the kids don't take much notice."

    Mohammed Sobboh, 17, was shot just above the knee on August 25 when he was 800 metres from the border, he said. The 12 people in his family have no other income and are not entitled to aid from the UN as they are not refugees.

    Israeli soldiers shot dead a horse and a donkey used by Mohammed and his brothers to carry the rubble, he said.

    His brother, Adham, 22, said children as young as eight collect debris from former settlements and demolished buildings for 30-40 shekels (£5.20-£7) a day. "The price has gone down because a lot of people are collecting," said Adham.

    According to Dr Masri, the number of shootings has increased as more impoverished Gazans turn to collecting rubble to sell as construction material, which is still under Israeli embargo. "Every day we have one or two cases. Some kids are facing permanent disability. Most of the injuries are to the legs and feet, suggesting the soldiers did not aim to kill. That means they know that the people aren't militants."

    Ziad Tamboura, 27, lying in a hospital bed with a heavily bandaged foot, was shot last week while collecting 500 metres from the border. X-rays showed the bones in the foot to be smashed by the bullet. He collected rubble in order to feed his wife and child. "If I am able to walk again, I will go back. There is no other work."

    The Gaza City-based Al-Mezan Centre for Human Rights is to mount a legal challenge jointly with the Israeli groups Adalah and Physicians for Human Rights to breaches of the official buffer zone. "The area [the Israelis] announced is not the same as what exists on the ground," said the centre's Samir Zaqout.

    He criticised the Israelis for shooting and shelling unarmed civilians. "They know everything. They have the technological capacity to monitor the area. They have drones in the sky all the time. They are observing and screening everything."

    According to the UN, about 30% of Gaza's arable land is contained within 300 metres of the 50km border. The difficulty farmers face in reaching their land had had an impact on the availability of crops in Gaza, Zaqout said. "Tomatoes are now 10 shekels a kilo, whereas the price used to be one or two shekels."

    The Abu Said family, whose land lies outside the buffer zone, felt confident that their faces were well known to Israeli troops monitoring the area. "Every day six or seven members of my family are there [on the land]," said Mohammed Abu Said.

    But on 12 September, 91-year-old Ibrahim Abu Said, his 17-year-old grandson, Hussam, and a family friend, Ismail Abu Owda, 16, were killed by a shell fired from a tank on the Israeli side of the border. "This was a very old man taking care of his goats," said Mohammed, Ibrahim's son. "Our land used to be like a heaven. Now it's like a desert."

    He blamed Palestinian militants for firing rockets as well as the Israeli military.

    In a statement, the Israeli military said the 300-metre buffer zone was created in response to "many incidents of hostile terrorist activity" close to the security fence, often made "under a civilian disguise".

    It added: "The IDF acts in order to prevent harm to civilian populations in its operations and any complaint expressed regarding its soldiers' conduct will be … examined according to the existing policy."

    In the firing line

    Children shot in "buffer zone" while collecting rubble

    Mohammad, 17, shot in left leg, 800m from border, 25 August

    Khaled, 16, left thigh, 600m from border, 31 July

    Hameed, 13, left arm, 50m from border, 14 July

    Nu'man, 14, right leg, 300m from border, 10 July

    Arafat, 16, left ankle, 50m from border, 10 July

    Mohammad, 16, stomach, 500m from border, 23 June

    Abdullah, 16, just above right ankle, 60m from border, 22 June

    Ibrahim, 16, right leg, 400m from border, 16 June

    Awad, 17, just above his right knee, 350m from border, 7 June

    Hasan, 17, just below right knee, 300m from border, 22 May
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    How anyone can defend these racist, child-murdering bastards is beyond me.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    What makes me angry/sad is that 'we'/our governments seem to be OK with all of this seeing they are not piping up or, when they do, it's to 'offer concessions' to benefit Israel only to the detriment of Palestine. Any other country, they would have been denounced, sanctioned and we would have already sent the troops.
  • DPrival78DPrival78 CT Posts: 2,263
    redrock wrote:
    What makes me angry/sad is that 'we'/our governments seem to be OK with all of this seeing they are not piping up or, when they do, it's to 'offer concessions' to benefit Israel only to the detriment of Palestine. Any other country, they would have been denounced, sanctioned and we would have already sent the troops.

    that's because our "leaders" pledge an unconditional loyalty to israel.

    why you ask? well, that's a very interesting question.
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 40,349
    Byrnzie wrote:
    How anyone can defend these racist, child-murdering bastards is beyond me.
    objectively speaking, it's indefensible.

    It just seems a little odd to me, Given a history such as theirs , one should think that as a people and a government , they just might be a little bit compasssionate.


    Never again? Is that right? We're watching again right now. One , again , would have thought that meant period.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    How anyone can defend these racist, child-murdering bastards is beyond me.
    objectively speaking, it's indefensible.

    It just seems a little odd to me, Given a history such as theirs , one should think that as a people and a government , they just might be a little bit compasssionate.


    Never again? Is that right? We're watching again right now. One , again , would have thought that meant period.

    the oppressed have become the oppressors. collectively punishing an entire population of peoples and committing ongoing crimes against humanity. every single day.

    all the people turning a blind eye and not speaking out to try and end it has blood on their hands. it's 2010, you can't plead ignorance anymore and say 'we didn't know it was happening'.
  • to futher expand on what i am saying, Khalid Amayreh makes a valid point. everyone should be asking themselves this question.

    "must the level of Israeli Nazism be equal to that of German Nazism in order sound alarm bells and alert the world that Jews are going wild? And who says that the Palestinian victims of Israeli brutality must reach 6,000,000 in order to grant Palestinians a hearing before the world’s court?"

    Israel uses holocoaust memory to effect own holocaust against Palestinians

    By Khalid Amayreh in the West Bank
    [ 01/02/2010 - 11:05 PM ]
    Writing in the Ha’aretz newspaper on Thursday, 28 January, under the title “holocaust remembrance is a boon for Israeli propaganda,” the noted Israeli journalist Gideon Levy accused Israel of employing the holocaust memory as a Public Relations gimmick to divert attention from the savagery and brutality meted out to the Palestinians.

    “When the world is talking Goldstone, we talk Holocaust, as if out to blur the impression. When the world talks occupation, we’ll talk Iran as if we wanted them to forget.”

    But Levy, like many other conscientious observers, know this won’t help the Israeli goal of making the world forget the Palestinians, or more specifically what Israel has done and is doing to them.

    “It won’t help much. Inter national Holocaust Remembrance has passed, the speeches will soon be forgotten, and the depressing everyday reality will remain. Israel will not come out looking good, even after the PR campaign”

    To be sure, Levy is not against marking the Holocaust day. In fact, he insists that it is an incomparable event. And it may well be so.

    However, he reminds the Israeli establishment that “a thousand speeches against anti-Semitism will not extinguish the flames ignited by Operation Cast Lead, flames that threaten not only Israel but the entire Jewish world.”

    He adds: “As long as evil is rampant here at home, neither the world nor we will be able to accept our preaching to others, even if they deserve it.”

    This introduction is necessary to understand the Satanic game Zionism and its numerous propaganda outlets are playing in order to divert attention from the genocidal brutality Israel is carrying out against the Palestinian people.

    Today, Jewish-Zionist circles are leaving no stone unturned in order to immortalize the holocaust, not so much to warn the world against the recurrence of such an abomination, but rather to obtain from the world a tacit permission to destroy the Palestinian people either in one fell swoop or step by step.

    What else explains all this propaganda about the holocaust while the Israeli state and its para-military thugs, otherwise known as settlers, keep up tormenting and savaging the Palestinian people, destroying their homes, stealing their land and denying them access to food and work?

    In so doing, Israel and its hasbara doctors not only are displaying spasmodic sensitivity toward any comparisons between the German holocaust and the quasi-holocaust being carried out against the Palestinian people, but are also using every opportunity to divert attention from Israeli atrocities in places like the Gaza Strip.

    In recent days, the Israeli hasbara machine utilized to the fullest the highly-propagandistic rescue mission Israel sent to Haiti in an effort to make the world forget what Israel did to the people of the Gaza Strip last year.

    But that won’t erase the ugliness from Israel’s face.

    A child killer’s ugly face will remains ugly even if dressed in a boy-scout’s uniform. An Israeli soldier who murdered babies in Gaza several months ago shall not be transformed into a charitable figure just because he took part in efforts to rescue Haitians from under the quake rubble. A murderer remains a murderer even if he, on his way home, helped an elderly lady mow her lawn.

    In the final analysis, honest and intelligent people just wouldn’t take it. A country that uses F-16 fighters to rain death on school children and prevents milk from reaching babies in order to make them die by way of starvation is a criminal country even if it dispatches rescuers to Haiti where the propaganda teams are filmed rescuing a few victims from under the rubble. It is always difficult to thank people for doing a favor which they never meant to do in the first place.

    Zionism has two main goals behind its obsession with the holocaust, an obsession that has been elevated to the level of a religion: First, there is the declared goal, namely to keep the memory of the holocaust alive and to remind the world of what happened to European Jewry at the hands of the Third Reich more than 60 years ago.

    This is a legitimate goal as humanity must learn from its tragic mistakes in order not to repeat them. We study the day before yesterday in order to understand yesterday and we study yesterday in order not to spoil our tomorrow.

    The second but undeclared goal behind this holocaust religion is to justify Zionism, a racist ideology that eventually bred a gigantic crime against humanity called Israel. In the final analysis, Israel embodies an evil desire to annihilate the Palestinian people and steal their ancestral homeland. And when the Palestinians cry out for justice and humanity, we see and hear the dogs of Zionism shout “holocaust, Auschwitz , Hitler!!”

    Last year, the Israeli army and air force rained death on Gaza for three uninterrupted weeks. Warplanes dropped bombs on unprotected civilians throughout the small enclave. Heavy artillery bombarded homes, schools, hospitals, mosques and public buildings, creating a massive carnage. White Phosphoric fire storms raged over Gaza, incinerating numerous civilians. People fleeing for their lives and carrying white flags were systematically gunned down by Israeli army snipers. This happened as army rabbis were encouraging soldiers to murder men, women and children because this is the way to endear themselves to God.!!

    There is no doubt that the massive killings and pornographic destruction in Gaza last year was a genocidal act comparable to what was happening during the holocaust. The world shouldn’t raise its eyebrows when such comparisons are made.

    After all, the attempted annihilation of European Jewry didn’t begin with Auschwitz and Bergen Belsen. It started much earlier with comparatively innocuous things in the early 1930s. And then in 1938, there was the Kirstallnacht, a pre-taste of which the Palestinian people have been and are experiencing at the hands of the children, grandchildren and great grandchildren of the holocaust.

    In short, the holocaust started with very much the type of things Israel is doing to the Palestinians these days. The unmitigated attempted killing and starving of Gaza are merely an epitome of a larger picture which shows the systematic Nazi-like savagery and brutality to which most Palestinians are being subjected.

    Palestinians are not claiming that Israel is gassing Palestinians en mass. However, Israel is occasionally murdering Palestinian en mass by bombing their homes and denying them access to food and essential consumer products. Israel is murdering Palestinians by denying them access to health care abroad or in the West Bank.

    Israel denies that its treatment of Palestinians is reaching Nazi proportions. Well, then how can we describe the Gaza Strip which has been morphed into a huge concentration camp?

    Besides, must the level of Israeli Nazism be equal to that of German Nazism in order sound alarm bells and alert the world that Jews are going wild? And who says that the Palestinian victims of Israeli brutality must reach 6,000,000 in order to grant Palestinians a hearing before the world’s court?

    The holocaust was nefarious not because many of the victims were Jewish. (millions of non-Jews were killed during the WWII). It was diabolical because innocent human beings were killed unjustly. The horrendous killings wouldn’t have been less evil had the victims been non-Jewish and their number a few million less.

    The world must make every conceivable effort to prevent the recurrence of genocides and massacres and destructive wars. And one of the key ways to do that is to prevent Israel from using the holocaust to bully the world to keep silent in the face of Israel’s genocidal crimes against the Palestinians.

    Yes, the holocaust was evil, but it must never be used as an excuse for tormenting and savaging the Palestinian people and trying to destroy their national existence which they have earned in spite of history.

    Indeed, if the world allows Israel to strangulate the Palestinians, starve Gaza by transforming it into an updated version of the Warsaw Ghetto, then the world will be transforming itself into a human jungle, a jungle that is far worse than a real animal jungle.

    http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/11370
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Today, Jewish-Zionist circles are leaving no stone unturned in order to immortalize the holocaust, not so much to warn the world against the recurrence of such an abomination, but rather to obtain from the world a tacit permission to destroy the Palestinian people either in one fell swoop or step by step.




    the opinion piece has a good conclusion.



    we must remember the holocaust, i think everyone agrees to that. but why?



    to use it as an excuse to commit more atrocities or to prevent it from ever happening again?



    i'm with the latter.
  • Commy wrote:
    Today, Jewish-Zionist circles are leaving no stone unturned in order to immortalize the holocaust, not so much to warn the world against the recurrence of such an abomination, but rather to obtain from the world a tacit permission to destroy the Palestinian people either in one fell swoop or step by step.




    the opinion piece has a good conclusion.



    we must remember the holocaust, i think everyone agrees to that. but why?



    to use it as an excuse to commit more atrocities or to prevent it from ever happening again?



    i'm with the latter.

    Netanyahu said earlier this year that the holocausts should teach that murderers must be stopped before they act.

    i agree. maybe he should practice what he preaches.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Commy wrote:
    Today, Jewish-Zionist circles are leaving no stone unturned in order to immortalize the holocaust, not so much to warn the world against the recurrence of such an abomination, but rather to obtain from the world a tacit permission to destroy the Palestinian people either in one fell swoop or step by step.




    the opinion piece has a good conclusion.



    we must remember the holocaust, i think everyone agrees to that. but why?



    to use it as an excuse to commit more atrocities or to prevent it from ever happening again?



    i'm with the latter.

    Netanyahu said earlier this year that the holocausts should teach that murderers must be stopped before they act.

    i agree. maybe he should practice what he preaches.


    'stop murderers before they act', while he murders away.


    scumbag. typical politician, selling lies of altruism while he commits mass murder.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    The future of Israel - A Jewish State, run by and for Jews. Remember what happened the last time this type of Ethnic supremacy was tried in 1930's Germany?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oc ... rab-youths

    Israeli police clash with Arab youths

    Police fire teargas at youths who pelt them with stones as far-right Israeli activists march through Arab city

    Israeli-Arabs-clash-with--006.jpg


    guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 27 October 2010
    Ana Carbajosa in Umm al-Fahm



    Clashes between Israeli police and local protesters erupted in one of the country's main Arab cities today, as far-right Israeli activists attempted to march though the streets of Umm al-Fahm.

    Hundreds of police separated the demonstrators from the local population for more than two hours, shooting teargas and stun grenades at Arab youths who pelted them with stones.

    Tensions between the Jewish majority and the Arab minority of Israel have been high in recent weeks, after the government proposed a controversial loyalty oath bill for non-Jewish immigrants.

    "This rally is a provocative action," said Wasim Abbas, 31, an Arab protester.

    "Baruch Marzel [one of the rightwing organisers] represents the racist movement in Israel.

    "Many Jews come to Umm al-Fahm every day and we have no problem, but Marzel and his gang come as enemies and we want to tell them that they are not welcome to ..." Before he could finish his sentence police fired a volley of stun grenades, provoking a stampede.

    Helicopters and a blimp patrolled the sky. Dozens of Arab protesters, whose heads were wrapped in Palestinian scarves, threw stones and set fire to tyres and rubbish bins while chanting "Allahu Akbar" [God is greater].

    Nine Arabs were arrested and at least a dozen people injured, among them four policemen and two Arab members of the Knesset, the Israeli parliament.

    A far-right group called Our Land of Israel organised the march to ask the Israeli government to outlaw the northern branch of the Islamic movement.

    Umm al-Fahm is the stronghold of the party, which boycotts parliamentary elections and shares the same ideological roots as Hamas, the Palestinian Islamist group.

    "We have there a cancer of the Islamic movement that wants to destroy the state of Israel," Marzel was quoted as telling his supporters before the march.

    Police had initially prohibited the march, fearing violence, but a high court ruling accepted the appeal of the far-right organisation.

    Around 20% of Israelis are Arab citizens. They say they feel discriminated against by the government and the Jewish majority in the country.

    Tensions between the communities are on the rise since the beginning of the month, when the Israeli government proposed a law requiring new non-Jewish citizens to swear an oath of allegiance to Israel as a "Jewish and democratic state".
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