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Apple TV

FlaggFlagg Posts: 5,856
edited 2011 25 in All Encompassing Trip
Hey all, looking for opinions.

Does anyone have the new Apple TV? Going to get it? Have or going to get something else (Roku, Google TV, etc.)?

I was thinking about getting one. I hate my satellite company. I have Dish Network right now and they are in a battle with Fox Sports over fees so we can't see Fox Sports channels right now - the regional ones. Fox the network is still on for now, but they may black that out next.

I don't watch a lot of TV outside of two or three shows and sports (Rangers, Stars, Cowboys, etc.) and any NFL game that happens to be on MNF or SNF. So I would like to drop satellite altogether but sports is the only thing that keeps me connected to them. So I don't think I could drop them. But I could reduce my programming down to the minimum right? I really only need ESPN, the local channels, some news channels, the regional sports network (Fox Sports Southwest) and maybe HBO.

And I could load all my DVDs to my Mac and then stream them with Apple TV right? And then rent or buy future movies through iTunes and stream them so no more buying physical discs right? That alone may make it worth the $99 price right there.

That was a long post. Trying to figure all this out and was wondering what other's opinions are.
DAL-7/5/98,10/17/00,6/9/03,11/15/13
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • 8181 Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
    i just read on this topic a few weeks back. my conclusion was google tv would be the better choice for me. your results may vary.
    81 is now off the air

    Off_Air.jpg
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    One thing I don't understand about Apple TV and Google TV. I've had my laptop connected to my LCD TV for several years now. Do I really need a separate box to go to sites like YouTube or any other streaming site?

    I would think if you have a laptop, you don't need Apple TV or Google TV.

    There's ESPN3 now online, so there's less reason to keep your TV just for sports - which is why I keep mine.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • HeavyHandsHeavyHands Posts: 2,130
    Not trying to overwhelm you with options, as I know there are a lot in this article, but I think there's a lot of value in it.

    http://lifehacker.com/5475091/how-can-i-ditch-cable-and-watch-my-tv-shows-and-movies-online

    You've already done the most important thing which is: you've identified what your entertainment wants are. Sports, movies, etc... Now I think it's just a matter of identifying which combination of the things mentioned in the article will meet your entertainment wants.

    Also, keep in mind that there will be a competing Google service announced tomorrow (I think) so that may factor in to your options as well.

    http://www.google.com/tv/index.html
    "A lot more people are capable of being big out there that just don't give themselves a chance." -Stone Gossard
  • FlaggFlagg Posts: 5,856
    know1 wrote:
    One thing I don't understand about Apple TV and Google TV. I've had my laptop connected to my LCD TV for several years now. Do I really need a separate box to go to sites like YouTube or any other streaming site?

    I would think if you have a laptop, you don't need Apple TV or Google TV.

    There's ESPN3 now online, so there's less reason to keep your TV just for sports - which is why I keep mine.

    Can you stream wireless from your laptop to your TV? Maybe that is the difference.

    ESPN3 - the only problem with this, and really the biggest issue with things like MLB TV, etc. is the blackout policies. I can subscribe to MLB.TV but can't watch the Rangers, right? Therefore I am stuck with FSSW. That is the most frustrating thing to me. And I think that is going to be the biggest hurdle. If Google and/or Apple can wrest away the broadcast rights from the regional sports networks, or somehow get those networks to become available without satellite or cable, then we'd be in business.
    DAL-7/5/98,10/17/00,6/9/03,11/15/13
    BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
    MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
    PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
    CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
    HTFD-6/27/08
    ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
    KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
    Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
    PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
    OKC-11/16/13
    SEA-12/6/13
    TUL-10/8/14
  • FlaggFlagg Posts: 5,856
    HeavyHands wrote:
    Not trying to overwhelm you with options, as I know there are a lot in this article, but I think there's a lot of value in it.

    http://lifehacker.com/5475091/how-can-i-ditch-cable-and-watch-my-tv-shows-and-movies-online

    You've already done the most important thing which is: you've identified what your entertainment wants are. Sports, movies, etc... Now I think it's just a matter of identifying which combination of the things mentioned in the article will meet your entertainment wants.

    Also, keep in mind that there will be a competing Google service announced tomorrow (I think) so that may factor in to your options as well.

    http://www.google.com/tv/index.html

    Thanks. That first one is a good sum-up. Funny I never found it after Googling about this for two days. LOL.

    Google TV sounds interesting but I think the price is going to much higher, but with better options.

    Still going to need to find a solution on sports though.
    DAL-7/5/98,10/17/00,6/9/03,11/15/13
    BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
    MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
    PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
    CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
    HTFD-6/27/08
    ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
    KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
    Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
    PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
    OKC-11/16/13
    SEA-12/6/13
    TUL-10/8/14
  • HeavyHandsHeavyHands Posts: 2,130
    Flagg wrote:
    Still going to need to find a solution on sports though.

    Therein lies the rub.

    If consumers had their way they would NEVER be locked in to some entertainment package that contained things they didn't care about. I would never waste money on MTV or VH1 or BET or CMT or any "music" channel because they have zero value to me. Yet they are bundled in cable and satellite packages like ticks.

    Content distributors and producers are scrambling to find ways to monetize à la carte content delivery now that the internet allows consumers to access only what they want without all the fluff. Sports seems to be one of the biggest sticking points so far.
    "A lot more people are capable of being big out there that just don't give themselves a chance." -Stone Gossard
  • 8181 Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
    Flagg wrote:

    Can you stream wireless from your laptop to your TV? Maybe that is the difference.

    i don't know about his set up, but i just ordered a 7 pin s video cable to hook my laptop to the tv. we'll see how it works.
    81 is now off the air

    Off_Air.jpg
  • mfc2006mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,484
    81 wrote:
    Flagg wrote:

    Can you stream wireless from your laptop to your TV? Maybe that is the difference.

    i don't know about his set up, but i just ordered a 7 pin s video cable to hook my laptop to the tv. we'll see how it works.

    you should be able to. i know that my sister & brother-in-law don't have cable. they stream shows from their computers onto their tv. then again, Jake is a Mac Nerd to the millionth degree & he had their house completely wired a few years before Apple TV was even announced.
    I LOVE MUSIC.
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  • HeavyHandsHeavyHands Posts: 2,130
    81 wrote:
    i don't know about his set up, but i just ordered a 7 pin s video cable to hook my laptop to the tv. we'll see how it works.

    If your TV is analog it will probably look just fine.

    If your TV is 1080P it will look fuzzy and not remotely HD.

    "Due to a lack of bandwidth, S-Video connections are generally not considered suitable for high-definition video signals. As a result, HD sources are generally connected to a monitor by way of analog component video or wideband digital methods (usually HDMI or DVI)."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S_video

    Normally I'd take anything on Wikipedia with a grain of salt, but I can confirm this.
    "A lot more people are capable of being big out there that just don't give themselves a chance." -Stone Gossard
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Flagg wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    One thing I don't understand about Apple TV and Google TV. I've had my laptop connected to my LCD TV for several years now. Do I really need a separate box to go to sites like YouTube or any other streaming site?

    I would think if you have a laptop, you don't need Apple TV or Google TV.

    There's ESPN3 now online, so there's less reason to keep your TV just for sports - which is why I keep mine.

    Can you stream wireless from your laptop to your TV? Maybe that is the difference.

    ESPN3 - the only problem with this, and really the biggest issue with things like MLB TV, etc. is the blackout policies. I can subscribe to MLB.TV but can't watch the Rangers, right? Therefore I am stuck with FSSW. That is the most frustrating thing to me. And I think that is going to be the biggest hurdle. If Google and/or Apple can wrest away the broadcast rights from the regional sports networks, or somehow get those networks to become available without satellite or cable, then we'd be in business.

    I don't need to stream wireless from the laptop. I ALREADY have it wired to the TV. I surf the internet on it with a wireless keyboard and mouse from the couch. I've been doing this for several years and I'm not sure why I would need to have another box that's really only set up to stream from various video sources when I have a computer already hooked to it that can do all that plus other things.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • bmwweirdoguybmwweirdoguy Right of Seattle Posts: 228
    http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... 3#features

    Check this out - better features...
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  • 8181 Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
    HeavyHands wrote:
    81 wrote:
    i don't know about his set up, but i just ordered a 7 pin s video cable to hook my laptop to the tv. we'll see how it works.

    If your TV is analog it will probably look just fine.

    If your TV is 1080P it will look fuzzy and not remotely HD.

    "Due to a lack of bandwidth, S-Video connections are generally not considered suitable for high-definition video signals. As a result, HD sources are generally connected to a monitor by way of analog component video or wideband digital methods (usually HDMI or DVI)."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S_video

    Normally I'd take anything on Wikipedia with a grain of salt, but I can confirm this.

    it's an old school tube style. i figured it would be ok on that. my next tv is going to have the internet built in.
    81 is now off the air

    Off_Air.jpg
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    81 wrote:
    Flagg wrote:

    Can you stream wireless from your laptop to your TV? Maybe that is the difference.

    i don't know about his set up, but i just ordered a 7 pin s video cable to hook my laptop to the tv. we'll see how it works.

    I just used the same computer monitor cable that I would use to connect a PC to a monitor. You can also do HDMI cables if the laptop has that connection, but mine's older.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • HeavyHandsHeavyHands Posts: 2,130
    81 wrote:
    it's an old school tube style. i figured it would be ok on that. my next tv is going to have the internet built in.

    It should look fine then.

    For future reference, I really like monoprice[dot]com. Bar-none the least expensive hdmi cables i've found. And other cables for that matter. Best Buy charges over $70 for a cable I spend $6 on and have had absolutely NO complaints. I know you weren't after hdmi, but for future reference you can save hundreds on monoprice when you're working on home theater stuff.
    "A lot more people are capable of being big out there that just don't give themselves a chance." -Stone Gossard
  • 8181 Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
    HeavyHands wrote:
    81 wrote:
    it's an old school tube style. i figured it would be ok on that. my next tv is going to have the internet built in.

    It should look fine then.

    For future reference, I really like monoprice[dot]com. Bar-none the least expensive hdmi cables i've found. And other cables for that matter. Best Buy charges over $70 for a cable I spend $6 on and have had absolutely NO complaints. I know you weren't after hdmi, but for future reference you can save hundreds on monoprice when you're working on home theater stuff.

    i've been using ebay alot for cables and connectors

    Best Buy is over priced on eveything. Same thing with fry's electronics. I almost bought a tv one day, but fry's wouldn't price match.
    81 is now off the air

    Off_Air.jpg
  • FlaggFlagg Posts: 5,856
    know1 wrote:
    Flagg wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    One thing I don't understand about Apple TV and Google TV. I've had my laptop connected to my LCD TV for several years now. Do I really need a separate box to go to sites like YouTube or any other streaming site?

    I would think if you have a laptop, you don't need Apple TV or Google TV.

    There's ESPN3 now online, so there's less reason to keep your TV just for sports - which is why I keep mine.

    Can you stream wireless from your laptop to your TV? Maybe that is the difference.

    ESPN3 - the only problem with this, and really the biggest issue with things like MLB TV, etc. is the blackout policies. I can subscribe to MLB.TV but can't watch the Rangers, right? Therefore I am stuck with FSSW. That is the most frustrating thing to me. And I think that is going to be the biggest hurdle. If Google and/or Apple can wrest away the broadcast rights from the regional sports networks, or somehow get those networks to become available without satellite or cable, then we'd be in business.

    I don't need to stream wireless from the laptop. I ALREADY have it wired to the TV. I surf the internet on it with a wireless keyboard and mouse from the couch. I've been doing this for several years and I'm not sure why I would need to have another box that's really only set up to stream from various video sources when I have a computer already hooked to it that can do all that plus other things.

    Ah, OK, Gotcha. I don't have a laptop besides my work one.
    DAL-7/5/98,10/17/00,6/9/03,11/15/13
    BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
    MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
    PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
    CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
    HTFD-6/27/08
    ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
    KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
    Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
    PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
    OKC-11/16/13
    SEA-12/6/13
    TUL-10/8/14
  • FlaggFlagg Posts: 5,856
    HeavyHands wrote:
    Flagg wrote:
    Still going to need to find a solution on sports though.

    Therein lies the rub.

    If consumers had their way they would NEVER be locked in to some entertainment package that contained things they didn't care about. I would never waste money on MTV or VH1 or BET or CMT or any "music" channel because they have zero value to me. Yet they are bundled in cable and satellite packages like ticks.

    Content distributors and producers are scrambling to find ways to monetize à la carte content delivery now that the internet allows consumers to access only what they want without all the fluff. Sports seems to be one of the biggest sticking points so far.

    Yep. Frustrating isn't it? I've only recently (meaning over the last couple of years) really started to scrutinize our spending and make cuts. It is amazing the amount of money people nickel and dime away without really thinking about it.

    Over the last few months I have ditched our phone line, gone to cellular alarm monitoring, switched out homeowner and auto insurance for cheaper options, cancelled all online gaming/movie rental accounts (Netflix, Blockbuster), reduced cell plans to the minimum requirements, etc. and really examined each and everything that carries a monthly fee no matter how small.

    TV is my next target so that is what is driving this discussion. If I wasn't a sports fan this would probably be a no-brainer. If it wasn't for blackouts it would still be a no-brainer.

    Plus DISH is pissing me off with this whole Fox Sports fight.
    DAL-7/5/98,10/17/00,6/9/03,11/15/13
    BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
    MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
    PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
    CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
    HTFD-6/27/08
    ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
    KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
    Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
    PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
    OKC-11/16/13
    SEA-12/6/13
    TUL-10/8/14
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,689
    81 wrote:
    i just read on this topic a few weeks back. my conclusion was google tv would be the better choice for me. your results may vary.
    You have failed miserably.
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,689
    HeavyHands wrote:
    81 wrote:
    it's an old school tube style. i figured it would be ok on that. my next tv is going to have the internet built in.

    It should look fine then.

    For future reference, I really like monoprice[dot]com. Bar-none the least expensive hdmi cables i've found. And other cables for that matter. Best Buy charges over $70 for a cable I spend $6 on and have had absolutely NO complaints. I know you weren't after hdmi, but for future reference you can save hundreds on monoprice when you're working on home theater stuff.
    Good call, monoprice is where I get my cables.
    Unless your getting analog cables, material quality is irrelevant ;)
  • FlaggFlagg Posts: 5,856
    OK, so I ended up getting one of these for Christmas and I have to say I am very happy with it so far.

    The best feature is the ability to stream your iTunes library from your Mac to your TV and stereo. Also you can use AirPlay to stream content from your iPhone to the TV and stereo. You can also use your iPhone as a fully functional remote for the Apple TV and iTunes.

    I've only used the rental feature a couple of times but it works great. $4.99 for a HD movie. Takes a couple of hours to download it, but you have 30 days to watch it.

    Pretty cool little device.
    DAL-7/5/98,10/17/00,6/9/03,11/15/13
    BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
    MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
    PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
    CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
    HTFD-6/27/08
    ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
    KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
    Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
    PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
    OKC-11/16/13
    SEA-12/6/13
    TUL-10/8/14
  • HeavyHandsHeavyHands Posts: 2,130
    Flagg wrote:
    $4.99 for a HD movie. Takes a couple of hours to download it, but you have 30 days to watch it.

    That download time isn't right. There's no way it should take that long (depending, of course on the speed of your service). Check out this post I ran across on a different website. It sounds like it describes what is going on with you and it may be of significant help.

    http://joemaller.com/2577/itunes-slowdowns-with-google-dns/
    "A lot more people are capable of being big out there that just don't give themselves a chance." -Stone Gossard
  • FlaggFlagg Posts: 5,856
    HeavyHands wrote:
    Flagg wrote:
    $4.99 for a HD movie. Takes a couple of hours to download it, but you have 30 days to watch it.

    That download time isn't right. There's no way it should take that long (depending, of course on the speed of your service). Check out this post I ran across on a different website. It sounds like it describes what is going on with you and it may be of significant help.

    http://joemaller.com/2577/itunes-slowdowns-with-google-dns/

    Cool, will have to check that out, thanks. Actually I didn't think 2 hours was all that bad but will look in to this.
    DAL-7/5/98,10/17/00,6/9/03,11/15/13
    BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
    MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
    PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
    CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
    HTFD-6/27/08
    ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
    KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
    Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
    PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
    OKC-11/16/13
    SEA-12/6/13
    TUL-10/8/14
  • 8181 Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
    2 hours would piss me off.
    81 is now off the air

    Off_Air.jpg
  • FlaggFlagg Posts: 5,856
    81 wrote:
    2 hours would piss me off.

    I guess I didn't think about it. I was just like, "well it is an HD movie so that's how long it takes."

    Anyway, I am checking into it now and it could be a couple of things. I already use my ISPs DNS so it isn't the Google DNS thing. One thing I will try is my wireless router and make sure it is set to N and not G.
    DAL-7/5/98,10/17/00,6/9/03,11/15/13
    BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
    MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
    PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
    CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
    HTFD-6/27/08
    ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
    KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
    Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
    PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
    OKC-11/16/13
    SEA-12/6/13
    TUL-10/8/14
  • HeavyHandsHeavyHands Posts: 2,130
    Depending on where you are and who your service provider is I have heard in the news recently about Comcast (for example) seeking to throttle specific kinds of internet traffic (in this case video stream data from Akamai, the company that serves up Apple's video).

    The conjecture is that:

    1. Their pipelines are being choked by the exploding consumer demand for streaming video services and they just can't handle the volumes of data being requested/sent.

    or

    2. They are intentionally choking video streams of competitors in order to drive traffic, and therefore $, to their own services, which, conveniently, don't suffer from the same download times.

    or

    3. A combination of the above two.

    or

    4. Something else.

    Bottom line is that Apple TV works almost instantly for a vast majority of owners. The device performs as advertised for them. I don't think it can be denied that something is causing the download times to be unreasonable for quite a few people though.

    http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2608444&start=0&tstart=0

    One suggestion would be to rent the movie on your computer through iTunes and then stream it to the ATV. I believe that way it won't travel over the internet as a video stream, but rather as a "file" you are downloading. If I am correct, ISP's throttle different types of traffic differently so a file might not be as much of a priority for them to disrupt during peak times as a video stream. Assuming, of course, that it is your ISP that is the problem.
    "A lot more people are capable of being big out there that just don't give themselves a chance." -Stone Gossard
  • HeavyHandsHeavyHands Posts: 2,130
    I ran across this tool the other day. It is a javascript tool hosted on UC Berkeley's website which analyzes your internet connection and DNS server responsiveness. It's pretty thorough and will give you an audit report at the very end which you may find useful for troubleshooting your connectivity issues.

    http://netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.edu/

    Hope it helps.
    "A lot more people are capable of being big out there that just don't give themselves a chance." -Stone Gossard
  • dustinparduedustinpardue Las Vegas, NV Posts: 1,829
    I had the old apple tv and now have the new one. Excellent device.
    "All I Ever Knew" available now in print and digital formats at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and iBooks.
  • HeavyHandsHeavyHands Posts: 2,130
    Any updates on the resolution of the download time Flagg?
    "A lot more people are capable of being big out there that just don't give themselves a chance." -Stone Gossard
  • FlaggFlagg Posts: 5,856
    HeavyHands wrote:
    Any updates on the resolution of the download time Flagg?

    No, I haven't had an opportunity to try it. I've been traveling for work during the week and just sticking with sports on the weekends.

    I did fool around with my wireless router's settings and reset the Apple TV and noticed that trailers now play instantly when they used to take a couple of minutes to buffer first. So hopefully that's a good sign.

    If it is my ISP (AT&T) and they are throttling, I am not sure what my options are other than to go with another and the options there are limited (cable, U-verse). Verizon FIOS not available in my neck of the woods. I'd love to drop AT&T's DSL service but have had really bad experience with cable broadband in the past.

    Streaming existing movies and music from iTunes is flawless.
    DAL-7/5/98,10/17/00,6/9/03,11/15/13
    BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
    MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
    PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
    CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
    HTFD-6/27/08
    ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
    KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
    Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
    PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
    OKC-11/16/13
    SEA-12/6/13
    TUL-10/8/14
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