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Any have

mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
edited September 2010 in A Moving Train
any good books or docs they know of about the IRA and the Palestinian/Israeli conflict? I am interested in learning a lot more about either topic but have only so far found a lot of opinionated stuff about the P/I conflict and not even sure where to begin with books on the IRA

any help would be appreciated
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Post edited by Unknown User on

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  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    any good books or docs they know of about the the Palestinian/Israeli conflict? I am interested in learning a lot more about either topic but have only so far found a lot of opinionated stuff about the P/I conflict and not even sure where to begin with books on the IRA

    any help would be appreciated

    for anyone who really wants to gain a greater understanding of the issue, please take the time to read Ali Abunimahs book 'one country'. it's one of the best books i have ever read. he talks about a one state solution that acknowledges the right of both sides. one democratic state for Palestinians and Israeli Jews, living side by side with equal rights.

    anyone that says this is not possible, please do yourself a favor and at least read his book and consider some of the things he says. it is honestly well worth reading and it will open your mind to an alternative that would provide the greatest possibility for future peace.

    onecountry.jpg

    Ali is also the co-founder of The Electronic Intifada.



    also if you get a minute, i have Anna Baltzers link in my profile. Anna is a Jewish-American activist for Palestinian human rights who has experienced the desperate situation of the Palestinians first hand.

    In 2003, during a backpacking trip through the Middle East, I began to meet Palestinian refugees from 1948. I didn’t know who the Palestinians were, or where Palestine was, and through my new acquaintances I began to hear a narrative about the history and present of Israel/Palestine that was entirely different from the one I had learned growing up in the United States.

    My first reaction was disbelief, and anger. Families told me stories of past and present military attacks, house demolitions, land confiscation, imprisonment without trial, and torture. It seemed that these actions were not carried out for the protection of Jewish people, but rather for the creation and expansion of a Jewish state at the expense of the rights, lives, and dignity of the non-Jewish people living in the region. It was hard for me to believe that Israel could act so unjustly.

    Not believing what I heard, I decided to do some research to prove myself right. Immediately, I was shocked to find how much I didn’t know about the situation on the ground. Not knowing who or what to believe anymore, I decided to go to see the situation with my own eyes. Since I returned, I’ve dedicated my life to informing fellow Americans and others about what I found, and what they can do to support a just peace for all peoples in Israel/Palestine.

    http://www.annainthemiddleeast.com/
  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    image and reality by norman finklestein, even the introduction is packed with info
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • michelleelisemichelleelise Posts: 346
    edited September 2010
    If you're finding the material so far to be too politically charged then I wouldn't recommend jumping into books by people like Finkelstein or Dershowitz. Although I'd recommend reading them at some point. Personally, I'd start with history books. Here are two real quick, there might be better ones out there:

    http://www.amazon.com/Peace-End-All-Ott ... roduct_top

    http://www.amazon.com/History-Israeli-P ... 0253208734

    EDIT: that link goes to the first edition, here is an updated second edition version of the same overview book:

    http://www.amazon.com/History-Israeli-P ... 501&sr=8-1
    Post edited by michelleelise on
  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    michelle822 wrote:
    If you're finding the material so far to be too politically charged then I wouldn't recommend jumping into books by people like Finkelstein or Dershowitz. Although I'd recommend reading them at some point. Personally, I'd start with history books. Here are two real quick, there might be better ones out there:

    http://www.amazon.com/Peace-End-All-Ott ... roduct_top

    http://www.amazon.com/History-Israeli-P ... 0253208734


    and maybe because dershowitz's books contain proven lies :mrgreen:

    oh, i'm sorry, he says they were just typos....that were never corrected
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • michelleelisemichelleelise Posts: 346
    ^ Point proven. Too politically charged. Start with a solid history of the region. Best book I ever read was the text from my college history class years ago but I can't recall the name :?
  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    ^no, point not proven

    or maybe i misunderstood, i was under the impression the op wanted books that did not contain lies.

    as finklestein exposed on a debate with him on democracy now! dershowitz wrote:

    "Morris estimates that between 2,000 and 3,000 Arabs fled their homes during this phase of the Arab initiated fighting."

    the problem with that is morris actually wrote:

    "Altogether about 200,000 to 300,000 Arabs fled their homes".

    he claimed this was just a typo, after previously making the claim he'd give something like $10,000 to anyone who could find something not true in his book, that this was just an innocent typo that must have slipped by him....

    either way that has nothing to do with being politically charged and everything to do with just being a book that contains factual errors and that's a pretty big difference, i wonder what would happen if iran's president knocked two 0's off the jewish segment of the holocaust total?
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Pepe Silvia wrote:
    ^no, point not proven

    or maybe i misunderstood, i was under the impression the op wanted books that did not contain lies.

    as finklestein exposed on a debate with him on democracy now! dershowitz wrote:

    "Morris estimates that between 2,000 and 3,000 Arabs fled their homes during this phase of the Arab initiated fighting."

    the problem with that is morris actually wrote:

    "Altogether about 200,000 to 300,000 Arabs fled their homes".

    he claimed this was just a typo, after previously making the claim he'd give something like $10,000 to anyone who could find something not true in his book, that this was just an innocent typo that must have slipped by him....

    either way that has nothing to do with being politically charged and everything to do with just being a book that contains factual errors and that's a pretty big difference, i wonder what would happen if iran's president knocked two 0's off the jewish segment of the holocaust total?


    yes, definitely wanted less politically charged and DEFINITELY facts that I can trust.
    THanks to those who have responded. I see a lot of discussion on here about the conflict but I know too little about it to get involved. I always wonder why they cannot just share it. Makes no sense to me, that is why I need to learn about the history of it.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • michelleelisemichelleelise Posts: 346
    Well maybe I wasn't clear on what my point was. My point was that anytime either of those names is mentioned, allegations of lying start flying in both directions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dershowitz ... ein_affair).

    And I never said don't read them, I just recommend getting a very solid knowledge of the history of the region first. I mean seriously, someone asks for non-political primers and ends up with one-state solution and Finkelstein recommendations?

    Personally, I think you'd need to start with history and the division of the Middle East after WWI before attempting to get into the creation of the state of the Israel, ensuing wars, current conflict, etc... and that's why I recommended this one: A Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East, http://www.amazon.com/Peace-End-All-Ott ... d_sim_b_13
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    michelle822 wrote:
    Well maybe I wasn't clear on what my point was. My point was that anytime either of those names is mentioned, allegations of lying start flying in both directions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dershowitz ... ein_affair).

    And I never said don't read them, I just recommend getting a very solid knowledge of the history of the region first. I mean seriously, someone asks for non-political primers and ends up with one-state solution and Finkelstein recommendations?

    Personally, I think you'd need to start with history and the division of the Middle East after WWI before attempting to get into the creation of the state of the Israel, ensuing wars, current conflict, etc... and that's why I recommended this one: A Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East, http://www.amazon.com/Peace-End-All-Ott ... d_sim_b_13


    thanks by the way, that is exactly what I was looking for.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    you need to be careful. especially regarding history- it is usually written from the point of view of the victors, in this case either israel or the US.


    its why finklestein is such a good source regarding this. he takes an intellectual approach. as a scholar he attempts to produce an accurate account of reality.


    and thats what you should be looking for, a picture as close to reality as can be found.

    but you should get as much information as you can on the subject and make up your own mind.
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