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French senate approves burqa ban....

acoustic guyacoustic guy Posts: 3,770
edited September 2010 in A Moving Train
Nice going France .....for once.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/09 ... tml?hpt=T2
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Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • marcosmarcos Posts: 2,112
    They should also consider voting on the berets.
  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    Well, France is furiously secular and anti-religious in matters of state.

    However, laws mandating or forbidding dress codes on regular citizens will never sit right by me. No freedom-loving person can approve of that.

    France have also caused a ruckus over booting out gypsies en masse lately, so I suppose the government is trying to outbrown the nationalists these days.

    Sad really.

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  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    I would have a problem if they were banning these in Public Places:
    ResizedImage368245-muslim_girl.jpg

    But, have no problem with banning these from Public Places:
    laicite_burqua.jpg

    ...
    My reasoning? I'm in a bank or a 7-11 around mid-night and a couple of the latter pictures come strolling in... I'm looking for a quick exit or am handing them over my wallet and hitting the deck.
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  • acoustic guyacoustic guy Posts: 3,770
    marcos wrote:
    They should also consider voting on the berets.
    Get em a Body Bag Yeeeeeaaaaa!
    Sweep the Leg Johnny.
  • acoustic guyacoustic guy Posts: 3,770
    Cosmo wrote:
    I would have a problem if they were banning these in Public Places:
    ResizedImage368245-muslim_girl.jpg

    But, have no problem with banning these from Public Places:
    laicite_burqua.jpg

    ...
    My reasoning? I'm in a bank or a 7-11 around mid-night and a couple of the latter pictures come strolling in... I'm looking for a quick exit or am handing them over my wallet and hitting the deck.
    Agree...I know some may say thats wrong but I agree totally.
    How would you feel if your entire neighborhood was overrun by muslims andall the woman walked around dress like this? It would be freaking weird as hell IMO...
    Get em a Body Bag Yeeeeeaaaaa!
    Sweep the Leg Johnny.
  • CJMST3KCJMST3K Posts: 9,722
    acoustic guy wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    I would have a problem if they were banning these in Public Places:
    ResizedImage368245-muslim_girl.jpg

    But, have no problem with banning these from Public Places:
    laicite_burqua.jpg

    ...
    My reasoning? I'm in a bank or a 7-11 around mid-night and a couple of the latter pictures come strolling in... I'm looking for a quick exit or am handing them over my wallet and hitting the deck.
    Agree...I know some may say thats wrong but I agree totally.
    How would you feel if your entire neighborhood was overrun by muslims andall the woman walked around dress like this? It would be freaking weird as hell IMO...


    Imagine your reaction if they were also wearing sunglasses!
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  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    france is expelling romany people atm too. so lets not cut them too much slack. somethings wrong here and i cant support it.
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  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    The ban is about all face covering for security reasons. Naturally the burka being the main target. The French government are not shy about their view on full veil.

    The expulsion of the Roma is also based on security - what security, I really don't know. But I guess it has to be their excuse as Romania is part of the EU and these people have the right of free movement within the EU. One of the reasons an EU country can refuse entry to an EU resident is based on security (the other is disease and there is also a third that I forgot).

    Bad, bad France.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,158
    marcos wrote:
    They should also consider voting on the berets.

    Bad Example

    2namknt.jpg&t=1

    Good Example

    GiJoeFlint.jpg
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • nuffingmannuffingman Posts: 3,014
    I don't suppose the French care for 1 second what others think. I wonder how many women that wear the burqa actually want to wear it or are forced to by male family.

    It will give freedom to those that are forced to.

    http://kgov.com/gallery/20010911/Taliba ... ervice.jpg
  • marcosmarcos Posts: 2,112
    Jason P wrote:
    marcos wrote:
    They should also consider voting on the berets.

    Bad Example

    2namknt.jpg&t=1

    Good Example

    GiJoeFlint.jpg

    Agree........YO JOE!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • DeLukinDeLukin Posts: 2,757
    Imma have some 'burqa fries' for lunch today in protest. Way to drop the ball AGAIN, France.
    I smile, but who am I kidding...
  • MotoDCMotoDC Posts: 947
    DeLukin wrote:
    Imma have some 'burqa fries' for lunch today in protest. Way to drop the ball AGAIN, France.
    I prefer "Freedom Hats". Vive la revolucion!

    In all seriousness, though, am I allowed to wear my ski hat pulled down over my face in Paris? What about those surgical masks that some Asians have been so fond of since SARS? There are aspects to this new law that I like and aspects that I don't. Without question, full-face coverings should have to be removed in ANY zone/area that requires entrance via a security checkpoint. But walking around le champs or having a cafe during my 6th coffee break of the day (ha)...not so sure.

    I like the idea that it gives women who don't wear it by choice an excuse to take it off. I like the idea that it promotes cultural assimilation without forcing everyone to goosestep. I don't like the idea that it's yet another finger of control a democratic gov't feels it can put on its citizens. I don't like the idea that it restricts the ability of a group of people to practice the religion of their choosing in a manner that suits them.
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam Posts: 139,721
    redrock wrote:
    The ban is about all face covering for security reasons. Naturally the burka being the main target. The French government are not shy about their view on full veil.

    The expulsion of the Roma is also based on security - what security, I really don't know. But I guess it has to be their excuse as Romania is part of the EU and these people have the right of free movement within the EU. One of the reasons an EU country can refuse entry to an EU resident is based on security (the other is disease and there is also a third that I forgot).

    Bad, bad France.
    and most of roma coming to Greece,cos our democracy is open to all...but our economy cant...
    so more people,less jobs....nice..
    as for OP..i understand the reasons but from the other hand,people must be free to believe and wear what they want.
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  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    MotoDC wrote:
    In all seriousness, though, am I allowed to wear my ski hat pulled down over my face in Paris? .

    Anything that covers the face cannot be worn in public - if your ski mask is a balaclava type one, it would be against the law, as would a motorcycle helmet worn while walking down the street.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    and most of roma coming to Greece,cos our democracy is open to all...but our economy cant...
    so more people,less jobs....nice...

    That's the problem with economic migrants... no one wants them as it is a huge strain on the host country.

    As a poster said, France don't care about what others say (well... don't want to be seen to care). It would seem though that they are openly doing what lots of other governments are wanting to do but don't have the balls to (whether it's right or wrong).
  • Thorns2010Thorns2010 Posts: 2,201
    redrock wrote:
    MotoDC wrote:
    In all seriousness, though, am I allowed to wear my ski hat pulled down over my face in Paris? .

    Anything that covers the face cannot be worn in public - if your ski mask is a balaclava type one, it would be against the law, as would a motorcycle helmet worn while walking down the street.


    Now that is interesting.....

    So if I'm skiing in the French Alps, and its really cold, and I have my whole face covered........does that mean I can get fined? Because wouldn't I be in public?

    Or if I'm riding a motorcycle down the street, and have my helmet on. I'm in public right?
  • MotoDCMotoDC Posts: 947
    Thorns2010 wrote:
    redrock wrote:
    MotoDC wrote:
    In all seriousness, though, am I allowed to wear my ski hat pulled down over my face in Paris? .

    Anything that covers the face cannot be worn in public - if your ski mask is a balaclava type one, it would be against the law, as would a motorcycle helmet worn while walking down the street.


    Now that is interesting.....

    So if I'm skiing in the French Alps, and its really cold, and I have my whole face covered........does that mean I can get fined? Because wouldn't I be in public?

    Or if I'm riding a motorcycle down the street, and have my helmet on. I'm in public right?
    Sounds like as long as the activity fits the headgear, all is well. I wonder if muslim women can wear their burqas in mosques? I agree though, it does seem like there's a bit too much gray area in terms of enforcement.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    MotoDC wrote:
    Thorns2010 wrote:
    redrock wrote:

    Anything that covers the face cannot be worn in public - if your ski mask is a balaclava type one, it would be against the law, as would a motorcycle helmet worn while walking down the street.


    Now that is interesting.....

    So if I'm skiing in the French Alps, and its really cold, and I have my whole face covered........does that mean I can get fined? Because wouldn't I be in public?

    Or if I'm riding a motorcycle down the street, and have my helmet on. I'm in public right?
    Sounds like as long as the activity fits the headgear, all is well. I wonder if muslim women can wear their burqas in mosques? I agree though, it does seem like there's a bit too much gray area in terms of enforcement.
    As Moto says, as long as the activity fits the headgear. Wearing a full helmet to stroll down the Champs Élysées is not appropriate gear and could be seen as a threat. I would have thought in a place of worship one would dress according to each religion's dictates. Whilst the burqa is not a religious dictate, the women do cover up as much as they wish and is deemed 'decent' (though the majority not with burqas) .
  • Thorns2010Thorns2010 Posts: 2,201
    redrock wrote:
    As Moto says, as long as the activity fits the headgear. Wearing a full helmet to stroll down the Champs Élysées is not appropriate gear and could be seen as a threat. I would have thought in a place of worship one would dress according to each religion's dictates. Whilst the burqa is not a religious dictate, the women do cover up as much as they wish and is deemed 'decent' (though the majority not with burqas) .

    Sorry, I should have been a little clearer with my question.

    Does the law that was passed contain language saying that if the activity fits the headgear its ok?
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    redrock wrote:
    Whilst the burqa is not a religious dictate, the women do cover up as much as they wish and is deemed 'decent' (though the majority not with burqas) .
    ...
    Actually... I have seen some people that would actually look more 'decent' if covered head to toe with a Burqua.
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    Hail, Hail!!!
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Thorns2010 wrote:
    redrock wrote:
    As Moto says, as long as the activity fits the headgear. Wearing a full helmet to stroll down the Champs Élysées is not appropriate gear and could be seen as a threat. I would have thought in a place of worship one would dress according to each religion's dictates. Whilst the burqa is not a religious dictate, the women do cover up as much as they wish and is deemed 'decent' (though the majority not with burqas) .

    Sorry, I should have been a little clearer with my question.

    Does the law that was passed contain language saying that if the activity fits the headgear its ok?

    A quick google didn't give me the final wording (though I'm sure it's somewhere on the site linked),but this is what was a final proposal:

    "Article 2
    Définition de la notion d'espace public comme regroupant les voies publiques, les lieux ouverts au public et les lieux affectés à un service public.
    Définition des quatre exceptions au principe d'interdiction :
    - les tenues prescrites par une loi ou par un règlement (port du casque pour les deux roues) ;
    - les tenues autorisées pour protéger l'anonymat de l'intéressé (statut des témoins dans certains procès pénaux) ;
    - les tenues justifiées par des raisons médicales (masques en cas d'épidémie, masques respiratoires, bandages) ou des motifs professionnels (agents des forces de l'ordre, travaux de soudage, de sablage, de désamiantage, de dératisation, de désinsectisation des navires) ;
    - les tenues qui s'inscrivent dans le cadre de fêtes (déguisements de carnaval, de père Noël) ou de manifestations artistiques (acteurs de cinéma, de cirque ou de théâtre) ou traditionnelles (processions, notamment religieuses)".

    and following amendment proposed:

    "Article 2
    - Fusion des deux premières exceptions à l'interdiction de dissimulation du visage (Disposition introduite à l'initiative du Rapporteur)
    - Élargissement du champ de la troisième exception, en substituant à l'expression « raisons médicales » l'expression « raisons de santé » (Disposition introduite à l'initiative du Rapporteur)
    - Extension des exceptions aux « pratiques sportives », lorsqu'elles nécessitent une tenue masquant le visage (Disposition introduite à l'initiative du Rapporteur)"


    http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/13/do ... public.asp

    So, in answer to your question.. yes. The final wording would be very similar to the above. It even covers the surgical masks!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    redrock wrote:
    A quick google didn't give me the final wording (though I'm sure it's somewhere on the site linked),but this is what was a final proposal:

    "Article 2
    Définition de la notion d'espace public comme regroupant les voies publiques, les lieux ouverts au public et les lieux affectés à un service public.
    Définition des quatre exceptions au principe d'interdiction :
    - les tenues prescrites par une loi ou par un règlement (port du casque pour les deux roues) ;
    - les tenues autorisées pour protéger l'anonymat de l'intéressé (statut des témoins dans certains procès pénaux) ;
    - les tenues justifiées par des raisons médicales (masques en cas d'épidémie, masques respiratoires, bandages) ou des motifs professionnels (agents des forces de l'ordre, travaux de soudage, de sablage, de désamiantage, de dératisation, de désinsectisation des navires) ;
    - les tenues qui s'inscrivent dans le cadre de fêtes (déguisements de carnaval, de père Noël) ou de manifestations artistiques (acteurs de cinéma, de cirque ou de théâtre) ou traditionnelles (processions, notamment religieuses)".

    and following amendment proposed:

    "Article 2
    - Fusion des deux premières exceptions à l'interdiction de dissimulation du visage (Disposition introduite à l'initiative du Rapporteur)
    - Élargissement du champ de la troisième exception, en substituant à l'expression « raisons médicales » l'expression « raisons de santé » (Disposition introduite à l'initiative du Rapporteur)
    - Extension des exceptions aux « pratiques sportives », lorsqu'elles nécessitent une tenue masquant le visage (Disposition introduite à l'initiative du Rapporteur)"


    http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/13/do ... public.asp

    So, in answer to your question.. yes. The final wording would be very similar to the above. It even covers the surgical masks!
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