U.S. troops charged with murder of Afghan civilians

Boxes&Books

Godfather. wrote:

tonifig8 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

and, i don't think cold blooded murder of civillians and taking their body parts as souvineers is "getting blown out of proportion"...

Come on! That's being way blown out of proportion .......that's simply a keep sake.. .... .... it's really not as bad as you think.... :roll:

who could possibly defend these actions, really?

you must be board are you here to bring up my faith in this topic.

Godfather.

A little bored....yeah maybe......but I don't need to bring up your faith, I think I already know it-- It's pretty much the same as that wacko pastor in FL...... I was simply making a comment regarding Gimmes thread.
Just minding my own business.......... :angel:

Godfather.

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

and, i don't think cold blooded murder of civilians and taking their body parts as souvineers is "getting blown out of proportion"...

but you do think it's necessary to point and judge with out all the facts ? most people on this forum do..the train is a mighty judgmental place and unjustly so in some cases.

Godfather.

gimmesometruth27

Godfather. wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

and, i don't think cold blooded murder of civilians and taking their body parts as souvineers is "getting blown out of proportion"...

but you do think it's necessary to point and judge with out all the facts ? most people on this forum do..the train is a mighty judgmental place and unjustly so in some cases.

Godfather.

there is really no disputing the facts with all of the witnesses they have...

ed243421

Godfather. wrote:

these boys are trained to kill any perceived threat to their fellow solders or them selfs and are in a war situation
99% of you have NO idea what they were up against every Day so before you pick and choose what you decide to believe in a news article try and imagine what these guys are dealing with 7/24 away from home, IED'S ,SUICIDE BOMBERS, TALI BAN what GIVES ANY OF YOU THE RIGHT TO JUDGE THEM you haven't got any idea what they are going through....what happened to supporting our troops.

""We've got 150,000 men and women deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan right now whose mission is to protect the Iraqi and Afghan people," he said. "They are risking their lives to protect the Iraqi and Afghan people."

and getting shit from civilians for it :?

Godfather.

you didn't read the op, right?

and then you jumped in, all pissed off, spewing "support the troops"

read the story

Godfather.

ed243421 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

these boys are trained to kill any perceived threat to their fellow solders or them selfs and are in a war situation
99% of you have NO idea what they were up against every Day so before you pick and choose what you decide to believe in a news article try and imagine what these guys are dealing with 7/24 away from home, IED'S ,SUICIDE BOMBERS, TALI BAN what GIVES ANY OF YOU THE RIGHT TO JUDGE THEM you haven't got any idea what they are going through....what happened to supporting our troops.

""We've got 150,000 men and women deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan right now whose mission is to protect the Iraqi and Afghan people," he said. "They are risking their lives to protect the Iraqi and Afghan people."

and getting shit from civilians for it :?

Godfather.

you didn't read the op, right?

and then you jumped in, all pissed off, spewing "support the troops"

read the story

yes I did read the story, so whats your point ?...you guys are so in a hurry to bash the US any way you can...sad sad sad....anybody have anything positive to say about our country and our troops ?

Godfather.

ed243421

.

ed243421

Godfather. wrote:

ed243421 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

these boys are trained to kill any perceived threat to their fellow solders or them selfs and are in a war situation
99% of you have NO idea what they were up against every Day so before you pick and choose what you decide to believe in a news article try and imagine what these guys are dealing with 7/24 away from home, IED'S ,SUICIDE BOMBERS, TALI BAN what GIVES ANY OF YOU THE RIGHT TO JUDGE THEM you haven't got any idea what they are going through....what happened to supporting our troops.

""We've got 150,000 men and women deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan right now whose mission is to protect the Iraqi and Afghan people," he said. "They are risking their lives to protect the Iraqi and Afghan people."

and getting shit from civilians for it :?

Godfather.

you didn't read the op, right?

and then you jumped in, all pissed off, spewing "support the troops"

read the story

yes I did read the story, so whats your point ?...you guys are so in a hurry to bash the US any way you can...sad sad sad....anybody have anything positive to say about our country and our troops ?

Godfather.

g.

what in this story makes you want to defend these morons?

aerial

Godfather..........these boys are trained to kill any perceived threat to their fellow solders or them selfs and are in a war situation
99% of you have NO idea what they were up against every Day so before you pick and choose what you decide to believe in a news article try and imagine what these guys are dealing with 7/24 away from home, IED'S ,SUICIDE BOMBERS, TALI BAN what GIVES ANY OF YOU THE RIGHT TO JUDGE THEM you haven't got any idea what they are going through....what happened to supporting our troops.

""We've got 150,000 men and women deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan right now whose mission is to protect the Iraqi and Afghan people," he said. "They are risking their lives to protect the Iraqi and Afghan people."

and getting shit from civilians for it :?


gimmesometruth27".....you say whatever happened to support the troops....do you support murderers like these?

Godfather.........no and I will not judge these guys either,arnt you one of the people that dose not trust the media ? I think we should wait to hear their story and have a better idea rather than aligations of these crimes thats all,
what did you think of the video footage on the news a while back(about 2 years ago) when the civilians in iraqe where butchering our solders in the street and dragging their dead bodies like trophys through the streets
then the media plastered it all over the tv for their familys to see, i'm not saying it's right but this war and all other have a way of changing even the most compassionate of people.. in my opinion.

Godfather.

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

..............this has been reported on several news outlets all over the world, and they are pretty much facts instead of accusations at this point. you did not say if you support these murderers or not. and i do not trust my country's media....why should i have to read papers from other countries to find out the truth about things like this?? because people care more about some chick getting hit in the head with a watermelon on reality tv....

and yeah it sucks that some of our soldiers got their bodies dragged through town on tv....blame the government that put them in the position for it to happen to them...and i am sure that if your city was being occupied by a foreign invader you might want to take out a few of them, would you not? i would...

i have an easier time defending what these iraqi civillians did against an occupying force instead of what an occupying force did to afghan civillians...


You do not even know if this is true, but anyone can tell you want it to be true. The way you were so hoping that census person was murdered by a republican. I mean you had the one figured out before the police did….remember that one? It was Suicide…

Americans are not occupying shit...they are there because they are following orders from there Commander that you admire so much.....they put there life on the line every day....It’s ironic how you can talk your trash because of the American men and women that have died in battle for your freedom of speech! Yet you see nothing wrong with dragging dead bodies of American solders thru the streets.

markin ball

aerial wrote:

Godfather..........these boys are trained to kill any perceived threat to their fellow solders or them selfs and are in a war situation
99% of you have NO idea what they were up against every Day so before you pick and choose what you decide to believe in a news article try and imagine what these guys are dealing with 7/24 away from home, IED'S ,SUICIDE BOMBERS, TALI BAN what GIVES ANY OF YOU THE RIGHT TO JUDGE THEM you haven't got any idea what they are going through....what happened to supporting our troops.

""We've got 150,000 men and women deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan right now whose mission is to protect the Iraqi and Afghan people," he said. "They are risking their lives to protect the Iraqi and Afghan people."

and getting shit from civilians for it :?


gimmesometruth27".....you say whatever happened to support the troops....do you support murderers like these?

Godfather.........no and I will not judge these guys either,arnt you one of the people that dose not trust the media ? I think we should wait to hear their story and have a better idea rather than aligations of these crimes thats all,
what did you think of the video footage on the news a while back(about 2 years ago) when the civilians in iraqe where butchering our solders in the street and dragging their dead bodies like trophys through the streets
then the media plastered it all over the tv for their familys to see, i'm not saying it's right but this war and all other have a way of changing even the most compassionate of people.. in my opinion.

Godfather.

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

..............this has been reported on several news outlets all over the world, and they are pretty much facts instead of accusations at this point. you did not say if you support these murderers or not. and i do not trust my country's media....why should i have to read papers from other countries to find out the truth about things like this?? because people care more about some chick getting hit in the head with a watermelon on reality tv....

and yeah it sucks that some of our soldiers got their bodies dragged through town on tv....blame the government that put them in the position for it to happen to them...and i am sure that if your city was being occupied by a foreign invader you might want to take out a few of them, would you not? i would...

i have an easier time defending what these iraqi civillians did against an occupying force instead of what an occupying force did to afghan civillians...


You do not even know if this is true, but anyone can tell you want it to be true. The way you were so hoping that census person was murdered by a republican. I mean you had the one figured out before the police did….remember that one? It was Suicide…

Americans are not occupying shit...they are there because they are following orders from there Commander that you admire so much.....they put there life on the line every day....It’s ironic how you can talk your trash because of the American men and women that have died in battle for your freedom of speech! Yet you see nothing wrong with dragging dead bodies of American solders thru the streets.

That leap was so far I bet you could make the Olympic long jumping team.

OnTheEdge

I can see what Aerial is getting at. There are some people on here that have an easier time criticizing our own americans including soldiers then they do any other country.

markin ball

OnTheEdge wrote:

I can see what Aerial is getting at. There are some people on here that have an easier time criticizing our own americans including soldiers then they do any other country.

I feel what your saying but if we don't criticize ourselves, how do we have the right to criticize anyone else?

aerial

markin ball wrote:

OnTheEdge wrote:

I can see what Aerial is getting at. There are some people on here that have an easier time criticizing our own americans including soldiers then they do any other country.

I feel what your saying but if we don't criticize ourselves, how do we have the right to criticize anyone else?

Criticism is fine but some on here are ready to convict this guy just because he is an American solider.

Smellyman

aerial wrote:

markin ball wrote:

OnTheEdge wrote:

I can see what Aerial is getting at. There are some people on here that have an easier time criticizing our own americans including soldiers then they do any other country.

I feel what your saying but if we don't criticize ourselves, how do we have the right to criticize anyone else?

Criticism is fine but some on here are ready to convict this guy just because he is an American solider.

or defend him because he is one.

support the troops!!!

aerial

I am not defending him….he deserves his day in court though.....

markin ball

aerial wrote:

I am not defending him….he deserves his day in court though.....

Agreed.

Godfather.

judging by the footage on the news when we see people over there dragging our dead solders through the streets or what the radicals have done to american civilians in their country...are we the only country that "plays by the rules" ??? I'm not saying that these mens alleged actions are ok but we really don't know the circumstances or the whole truth of the matter, these men could be good men and good solders that have tolerated a large amount of violence from the people they're there to help..maybe it's hard to tell who the enemy is when one is in a war area..what that old saying about walking a mile in another mans shoes ? lets give our solders a chance to tell their side of the story,lets listen to what they have to say before you guys too judgmental on them.

Godfather.

Byrnzie

Yep, these guys really look like they deserve defending:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/se ... ns-fingers


US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies'

Soldiers face charges over secret 'kill team' which allegedly murdered at random and collected fingers as trophies of war


* Chris McGreal in Washington
* The Guardian, Thursday 9 September 2010


Twelve American soldiers face charges over a secret "kill team" that allegedly blew up and shot Afghan civilians at random and collected their fingers as trophies.

Five of the soldiers are charged with murdering three Afghan men who were allegedly killed for sport in separate attacks this year. Seven others are accused of covering up the killings and assaulting a recruit who exposed the murders when he reported other abuses, including members of the unit smoking hashish stolen from civilians.

In one of the most serious accusations of war crimes to emerge from the Afghan conflict, the killings are alleged to have been carried out by members of a Stryker infantry brigade based in Kandahar province in southern Afghanistan.

According to investigators and legal documents, discussion of killing Afghan civilians began after the arrival of Staff Sergeant Calvin Gibbs at forward operating base Ramrod last November. Other soldiers told the army's criminal investigation command that Gibbs boasted of the things he got away with while serving in Iraq and said how easy it would be to "toss a grenade at someone and kill them".

One soldier said he believed Gibbs was "feeling out the platoon".

Investigators said Gibbs, 25, hatched a plan with another soldier, Jeremy Morlock, 22, and other members of the unit to form a "kill team". While on patrol over the following months they allegedly killed at least three Afghan civilians. According to the charge sheet, the first target was Gul Mudin, who was killed "by means of throwing a fragmentary grenade at him and shooting him with a rifle", when the patrol entered the village of La Mohammed Kalay in January.

Morlock and another soldier, Andrew Holmes, were on guard at the edge of a poppy field when Mudin emerged and stopped on the other side of a wall from the soldiers. Gibbs allegedly handed Morlock a grenade who armed it and dropped it over the wall next to the Afghan and dived for cover. Holmes, 19, then allegedly fired over the wall.

Later in the day, Morlock is alleged to have told Holmes that the killing was for fun and threatened him if he told anyone.

The second victim, Marach Agha, was shot and killed the following month. Gibbs is alleged to have shot him and placed a Kalashnikov next to the body to justify the killing. In May Mullah Adadhdad was killed after being shot and attacked with a grenade.

The Army Times reported that a least one of the soldiers collected the fingers of the victims as souvenirs and that some of them posed for photographs with the bodies.

Five soldiers – Gibbs, Morlock, Holmes, Michael Wagnon and Adam Winfield – are accused of murder and aggravated assault among other charges. All of the soldiers have denied the charges. They face the death penalty or life in prison if convicted.

The killings came to light in May after the army began investigating a brutal assault on a soldier who told superiors that members of his unit were smoking hashish. The Army Times reported that members of the unit regularly smoked the drug on duty and sometimes stole it from civilians.

The soldier, who was straight out of basic training and has not been named, said he witnessed the smoking of hashish and drinking of smuggled alcohol but initially did not report it out of loyalty to his comrades. But when he returned from an assignment at an army headquarters and discovered soldiers using the shipping container in which he was billeted to smoke hashish he reported it.

Two days later members of his platoon, including Gibbs and Morlock, accused him of "snitching", gave him a beating and told him to keep his mouth shut. The soldier reported the beating and threats to his officers and then told investigators what he knew of the "kill team".

Following the arrest of the original five accused in June, seven other soldiers were charged last month with attempting to cover up the killings and violent assault on the soldier who reported the smoking of hashish. The charges will be considered by a military grand jury later this month which will decide if there is enough evidence for a court martial. Army investigators say Morlock has admitted his involvement in the killings and given details about the role of others including Gibbs. But his lawyer, Michael Waddington, is seeking to have that confession suppressed because he says his client was interviewed while under the influence of prescription drugs taken for battlefield injuries and that he was also suffering from traumatic brain injury.

"Our position is that his statements were incoherent, and taken while he was under a cocktail of drugs that shouldn't have been mixed," Waddington told the Seattle Times.

Byrnzie

Let's face it, the place was a turkey shoot, and anyone and everyone was game.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/1 ... n-suspects

British servicemen suspected of murdering Iraqi civilians

Exclusive: Soldiers and airmen are suspected of killing significant number of civilians, but have not been put on trial

* Ian Cobain
* guardian.co.uk, Sunday 12 September 2010


British soldiers and airmen are suspected of being responsible for the murder and manslaughter of a number of Iraqi civilians in addition to the high-profile case of Baha Mousa, defence officials have admitted.

The victims include a man who was allegedly kicked to death on board an RAF helicopter, another who was shot by a soldier of the Black Watch after being involved in a traffic incident, and a 19-year-old who drowned after allegedly being pushed into a river by soldiers serving with the Royal Engineers.

Military police recommended that some of the alleged killers be put on trial for murder and manslaughter, but military prosecutors declined to do so after concluding that there was no realistic prospect of convictions...

An army investigation into a number of cases – including that of Mousa, who was tortured to death by British troops – conceded in 2008 that they were a cause for "professional humility", but concluded that there was nothing endemic about the mistreatment.

In July, however, after reviewing evidence submitted by lawyers representing 102 survivors of British military detention facilities, the high court ruled: "There is an arguable case that the alleged ill-treatment was systemic, and not just at the whim of individual soldiers." The court also cast doubt on the ability of military police to conduct independent investigations.

The abuse documented by a team of lawyers led by Birmingham solicitor Phil Shiner includes 59 allegations of detainees being hooded, 11 of electric shocks, 122 of sound deprivation through the use of ear muffs, 52 of sleep deprivation, 131 of sight deprivation using blackened goggles, 39 of enforced nakedness and 18 allegations that detainees were kept awake by pornographic DVDs played on laptops....

catefrances

Byrnzie wrote:

...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/se ... ns-fingers


US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies'

well sport is just war in microcosm... maybe these guys were waiting for the final hooter to go. unfortunately for them it just has.

fuck

Godfather. wrote:

judging by the footage on the news when we see people over there dragging our dead solders through the streets or what the radicals have done to american civilians in their country...are we the only country that "plays by the rules" ??? I'm not saying that these mens alleged actions are ok but we really don't know the circumstances or the whole truth of the matter, these men could be good men and good solders that have tolerated a large amount of violence from the people they're there to help..maybe it's hard to tell who the enemy is when one is in a war area..what that old saying about walking a mile in another mans shoes ? lets give our solders a chance to tell their side of the story,lets listen to what they have to say before you guys too judgmental on them.

Godfather.

do you even know what an occupation is? I know how little the term is used by American media, let alone Fox News, but it seems like you haven't the slightest clue.