Imam speaks

fifefife Posts: 3,327
edited September 2010 in A Moving Train
So was watching CNN yesterday and saw that the man who is trying to build the mosque was on. Found the man to be very compassionate and thoughtful ( as i knew I would) then i start to watch AC360 and they have a sister of a fire fighter who dies at the towers and this guy who was a construction worker who was against the building and only one thing pop into my head.

The terrorist have won. when i look at American now i see people (not all people) so scared to point where they have stop being American. you have the tea party movement, the idiot "pastor" burning holy books, gay marriage, AZ immigration. look at all these issues and i notice that everything about is based on fear.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/09/new.yo ... tml?hpt=C1

just look at the comments at the bottom of this article. it would be madding if it wasn't so sad.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    you are right. the terrorists have won...they have bankrupted our country with the wars we have been unwilling or unable to finish and they have divided our citizens...

    those comments are disgusting by the way. that is why i never read them on any website...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • MotoDCMotoDC Posts: 947
    you are right. the terrorists have won...they have bankrupted our country with the wars we have been unwilling or unable to finish and they have divided our citizens...

    those comments are disgusting by the way. that is why i never read them on any website...
    Yeah, anytime I think this board swings way crazy left or way crazy right, I just pop over to a news or (God forbid) a popular video-hosting site that will remain unmentioned and read a few posts there. It's insane.

    On topic, fife, the Tea Party and "AZ immigration", as you so broadly put it, don't belong in the category you're assigning them. The core of the Tea Party is limiting the size of gov't due to a belief that the gov't has illegal extended itself beyond its Constitutionally-mandated limits. The core of AZ immigration issue is an attempt to deal with an illegal activity that has proven itself to be beyond most people's ability to solve. You may not agree with their methods, but illegal is illegal. Neither has anything to do with fear.
  • MotoDC wrote:
    you are right. the terrorists have won...they have bankrupted our country with the wars we have been unwilling or unable to finish and they have divided our citizens...

    those comments are disgusting by the way. that is why i never read them on any website...
    Yeah, anytime I think this board swings way crazy left or way crazy right, I just pop over to a news or (God forbid) a popular video-hosting site that will remain unmentioned and read a few posts there. It's insane.

    On topic, fife, the Tea Party and "AZ immigration", as you so broadly put it, don't belong in the category you're assigning them. The core of the Tea Party is limiting the size of gov't due to a belief that the gov't has illegal extended itself beyond its Constitutionally-mandated limits. The core of AZ immigration issue is an attempt to deal with an illegal activity that has proven itself to be beyond most people's ability to solve. You may not agree with their methods, but illegal is illegal. Neither has anything to do with fear.

    Out of curiosity - and I ask this in all serious, I've only lived in America for a decade so I'm far from being a constitutional expert - what are the constitutionally-mandated limits for government involvement, and how has the government exceeded those limits?

    As for the AZ immigration issue, for me the issue isn't that they're taking action to deal with the problem, it's the specific action they're taking - essentially legalizing racial profiling. By making it okay for the police to question anyone they "suspect of being in the country illegally" but not providing any framework for determining how you can tell someone might be "in the country illegally" beyond simply looking at them, the message being sent to law enforcement was "If you see someone who looks Mexican, ask him for his paperwork." That, funnily enough, is a violation of a constitutional amendment. What made it worse though was the addendum that gave citizens the right to sue law enforcement if they weren't doing a good enough job of deporting people, therefore putting the cops under more pressure to pull over more people who were guilty of looking like Mexicans.

    Personally speaking, I believe the AZ issue has EVERYTHING to do with fear. Media outlets are blaming illegal immigrants for all manner of ills - to hear them tell it, every Mexican who crosses the Rio Grande is a drug smuggler who wants to kidnap and kill your family. They're not coming here in search of a better life, they're coming here with some sinister plot to ruin America. Hell, even the AZ governor said the Mexicans are running around decapitating people in the desert (a totally bizarre accusation that she's been unable to prove, and is now unwilling to even discuss) - how is that not trying to make people afraid? The immigrants are being portrayed as bogeymen who are ruining America, and the bill is seen as some panacea that will fix the problem and make everything a-ok again. And if the issue is "beyond most people's ability to solve" then what makes people think that someone who lies about the problem is someone who can fix it? If I'm going to look for someone for answers, I'm not going to look in the direction of the lunatic who makes unfounded claims that illegal immigrants are carrying out gruesome murders in the desert. Either she's unaware of what's going on and is making things up - which means she's ignorant - or the problem isn't as bad as the media is making it out to be, and she's lying in an attempt to make it look worse than it really is.

    I also find it funny that some people like to use the illegal immigration issue as evidence that Obama isn't committed to making America safer... yet he's deporting more people than Bush did, and nobody seemed to be complaining too much during his two terms.
    And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
  • To answer the OP and keep this thread on topic though... I think you're right, to a point the terrorists have won.

    A group of extremists, mostly from Saudi Arabia, committed a terrorist attack on U.S. soil, and the country responded by invading Iraq. In nine years the U.S. military hasn't been able to find a guy who needs dialysis hiding in the Afghanistan and Pakistan mountains.

    The extremists are recruiting people throughout the Middle East by saying the West doesn't respect them and thinks they're subhuman - and the West responds by burning Qurans, flushing Qurans in the toilet, humiliating prisoners who haven't been convicted of a crime, protesting mosques being built, and burning down mosques being built. Twenty percent of the country dislikes and distrusts the president because they think he is a Muslim. Half the news stories these days seem to involve people saying all Muslims are evil.

    It's like walking up to an arsonist and handing him a gas can and a box of matches.

    The correct approach, in my opinion, would be for the country to unite behind the Cordoba Initiative and give it 100% support. That, more than anything, would screw the extremists - it would take away the line of arguing they're using to recruit more people to their cause. It's hard to convince people to take up arms against someone who treats them with respect.
    And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    Why do you people on the MT always confuse fear for common sense….
    If someone commits a crime there citizenship will be confirmed…the same way the police call in to see if you have any warrants…..
    Why make a big deal out of trying to arrest illegals?


    Is it is not a crime to burn the Quran but you have a problem with it…
    It is illegal to come into the country with out following the proper procedures…but yet that’s okay with you …..
    You people are so backasswards….
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    MotoDC wrote:
    you are right. the terrorists have won...they have bankrupted our country with the wars we have been unwilling or unable to finish and they have divided our citizens...

    those comments are disgusting by the way. that is why i never read them on any website...
    Yeah, anytime I think this board swings way crazy left or way crazy right, I just pop over to a news or (God forbid) a popular video-hosting site that will remain unmentioned and read a few posts there. It's insane.

    On topic, fife, the Tea Party and "AZ immigration", as you so broadly put it, don't belong in the category you're assigning them. The core of the Tea Party is limiting the size of gov't due to a belief that the gov't has illegal extended itself beyond its Constitutionally-mandated limits. The core of AZ immigration issue is an attempt to deal with an illegal activity that has proven itself to be beyond most people's ability to solve. You may not agree with their methods, but illegal is illegal. Neither has anything to do with fear.

    i don't necessary agree with you on the tea party. while yes, "the core" might belief that i don't think you can say that about the majority of the tea party. the reason i don't is because no government grew the size of the government like the GWB did but yet no protest. When did these protest begin to pick up speed? i say around the health care debate in America. all of a sudden, people came out of woods to protest things that most didn't even know about (i.e. death Panels) did these protest happen when Clinton was trying to get Health Care? NO.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    aerial wrote:
    You people are so backasswards….
    sez the tea partier....

    what good will come from burning the koran? if there was nothing wrong with it then why are all of the following condemning it?

    1. obama
    2. boehner
    3. clinton
    4. ag holder
    5. robert gibbs
    6. geberal patreaus
    7. interpol
    8. palin

    and for a complete list see the other thread.

    aerial do you support the burning or this book?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    aerial wrote:
    Why do you people on the MT always confuse fear for common sense….
    If someone commits a crime there citizenship will be confirmed…the same way the police call in to see if you have any warrants…..
    Why make a big deal out of trying to arrest illegals?


    Is it is not a crime to burn the Quran but you have a problem with it…
    It is illegal to come into the country with out following the proper procedures…but yet that’s okay with you …..
    You people are so backasswards….

    I for one am not making a big deal of trying to arrest illegals, i agree if someone breaks the law they shoudl be arrested however, i am questioning the way in which in been dealt with. I think it does bring racial profiling in the picture and also oi think it also does lead to a double standard. I have a hard time believing that the police would ask for citizenship status from "white looking" people.

    also, again your right its not against the law to burn any "holy" book, what i am questioning is WHY burn a burn any holy book?
  • ed243421ed243421 Posts: 7,672
    the terrorists have not won
    the u.s. government has won
    the u.s. military has won
    the masters of war have won
    the fear they have sold to the idiots of this country has won
    the terrorists have gained nothing that the u.s. did not want them to gain

    war=money
    fear=money
    power=money
    peace<money
    money=the root of all evil
    The whole world will be different soon... - EV
    RED ROCKS 6-19-95
    AUGUSTA 9-26-96
    MANSFIELD 9-15-98
    BOSTON 9-29-04
    BOSTON 5-25-06
    MANSFIELD 6-30-08
    EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
    BOSTON 5-17-10
    EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
    PJ20 9-3-11
    PJ20 9-4-11
    WRIGLEY 7-19-13
    WORCESTER 10-15-13
    WORCESTER 10-16-13
    HARTFORD 10-25-13









  • ed243421 wrote:
    the terrorists have not won
    the u.s. government has won
    the u.s. military has won
    the masters of war have won
    the fear they have sold to the idiots of this country has won
    the terrorists have gained nothing that the u.s. did not want them to gain

    war=money
    fear=money
    power=money
    peace<money
    money=the root of all evil

    Word.
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."

    "With our thoughts we make the world"
  • aerial wrote:
    Why do you people on the MT always confuse fear for common sense….
    If someone commits a crime there citizenship will be confirmed…the same way the police call in to see if you have any warrants…..Why make a big deal out of trying to arrest illegals?


    Is it is not a crime to burn the Quran but you have a problem with it…
    It is illegal to come into the country with out following the proper procedures…but yet that’s okay with you …..
    You people are so backasswards….

    That's cool. The real issue is not having citizens be arrested because they are not carrying their papers. "Common sense" may not be enough to prevent that from happening.
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."

    "With our thoughts we make the world"
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    aerial wrote:
    You people are so backasswards….
    sez the tea partier....

    what good will come from burning the koran? if there was nothing wrong with it then why are all of the following condemning it?

    1. obama
    2. boehner
    3. clinton
    4. ag holder
    5. robert gibbs
    6. geberal patreaus
    7. interpol
    8. palin

    and for a complete list see the other thread.

    aerial do you support the burning or this book?

    There just politicians being PC.....when did you start endorsing Palin?
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    aerial wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    You people are so backasswards….
    sez the tea partier....

    what good will come from burning the koran? if there was nothing wrong with it then why are all of the following condemning it?

    1. obama
    2. boehner
    3. clinton
    4. ag holder
    5. robert gibbs
    6. geberal patreaus
    7. interpol
    8. palin

    and for a complete list see the other thread.

    aerial do you support the burning or this book?

    There just politicians being PC.....when did you start endorsing Palin?
    i am not endorsing palin. i said she was on the list of those that condemned this action....
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • aerial wrote:
    Why do you people on the MT always confuse fear for common sense….
    If someone commits a crime there citizenship will be confirmed…the same way the police call in to see if you have any warrants…..
    Why make a big deal out of trying to arrest illegals?


    Is it is not a crime to burn the Quran but you have a problem with it…
    It is illegal to come into the country with out following the proper procedures…but yet that’s okay with you …..
    You people are so backasswards….

    If it's just common sense and not fear, then how does lying about what illegal immigrants are doing in order to drum up support for your position fall more in line with "common sense" and not "fear?"

    Seriously... the governor of Arizona said illegal immigrants were beheading people in the desert, even though there is no evidence to support her claim. How is that not fear-mongering?
    And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
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