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Should People Boycott Israel?

fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
edited September 2010 in A Moving Train
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?opt ... mival=5547
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    the people can yes. absolutely.

    even if there is no mass boycott, because i really doubt that the US will allow it, and they'll just continue to ignore our protests, then there's nothing stopping individuals from making their own peaceful protest. I have exercised my own boycott for some time now and do what i can to make others aware of the opportunity to do so if they wish.

    i've been criticized for it as well. so to anyone who suggests to me that it's a collective retaliation against all Israelis, to them i say isn't that exactly what Israel is doing to Palestinians? making an entire population of people suffer, because of the actions of a few.

    they go real quiet then.

    i wish it would stop, then we wouldn't even have to be talking about this.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Of course. It's one way of protesting against their policies. I have boycotted Israeli goods for a good number of years now (actually since I have had my own 'buying power', ie an adult!) and I do not hide the fact. My daughter also uses this as a tool for her to protest. I have even had discussions with people selling their ware at a 'craft' fair explaining why, though what they had was very nice and, as they said, would make perfect gifts, I was not willing to buy these.

    Some may say that what I do has no impact, but I believe if more people took this power in their hands, it would.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    wasn't there a thread a few weeks ago that said boycotting israel is against the law or people or countries would be fined if it were shown they were boycotting israeli goods or something?

    i believe that matters of conscience should apply to all things. if you wany to boycott something you should have that right. i think people and countries should boycott israel until it is proven to their government that they are not above international law, and once they fall back into line then trade could be re-established. i know that if have a choice in the matter i will never buy goods made there because i will not contribute to their economy and their illegal blockade. it should be my right as a consumer what i choose to buy and from whom...just my opinion....
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    sorry I should've made this clear in the first post: the link is a video interview with Omar Barghouti who is extremely knowledgeable on and helped launch the Academic and Cultural Boycott campaign against Israel. It's a very interesting video that explains the logic behind boycott, and also features very useful information regarding the three main crimes Israel has refused to acknowledge, let alone do anything about; the first being the occupation and blockade of West Bank and Gaza, the institutionalized racism and apartheid policies practiced against the Arab population in Israel (he speaks a lot about this which I feel is very important since it is often ignored - people always say "israel is a vibrant democracy, they only err in their occupation of west bank and gaza, etc), and the last being the Right of Return for the exiled Palestinian refugees in the world.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    wasn't there a thread a few weeks ago that said boycotting israel is against the law or people or countries would be fined if it were shown they were boycotting israeli goods or something?....

    You're right.... http://www.bis.doc.gov/complianceandenf ... atscovered

    "Objectives:
    The antiboycott laws were adopted to encourage, and in specified cases, require U.S. firms to refuse to participate in foreign boycotts that the United States does not sanction. They have the effect of preventing U.S. firms from being used to implement foreign policies of other nations which run counter to U.S. policy.

    Primary Impact:
    The Arab League boycott of Israel is the principal foreign economic boycott that U.S. companies must be concerned with today. The antiboycott laws, however, apply to all boycotts imposed by foreign countries that are unsanctioned by the United States.

    Who Is Covered by the Laws?
    The antiboycott provisions of the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) apply to the activities of U.S. persons in the interstate or foreign commerce of the United States. The term "U.S. person" includes all individuals, corporations and unincorporated associations resident in the United States, including the permanent domestic affiliates of foreign concerns. U.S. persons also include U.S. citizens abroad (except when they reside abroad and are employed by non-U.S. persons) and the controlled in fact affiliates of domestic concerns. The test for "controlled in fact" is the ability to establish the general policies or to control the day to day operations of the foreign affiliate.

    The scope of the EAR, as defined by Section 8 of the EAA, is limited to actions taken with intent to comply with, further, or support an unsanctioned foreign boycott."
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    a good project, one that may be in place already...would be a website linking products that come from israel or benefit israel.


    anyone know of something like this?





    like how do you boycott israel, how do you start? i can't imagine very many foods in my supermarket come from tel aviv, maybe the kosher salt i am so fond of, but can't imagine my shopping would have to change much to boycott israel. still, it is something i would be more than willing to do, given a starting place.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Commy... it's not just about goods from Israel but also about boycotting companies that actively support Israel through massive investments or those who have zionists who support Israel polices at their head.

    Goods are a good start though - maybe more in Europe than the US maybe? Look at provenance before you purchase fruit, vegetables, flowers, textiles, dry goods, etc. The list is long and you may be surprised at to where you find Israeli goods. For example, Levis manufactured some of their jeans in Israel - not sure if they still do so....
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    aside from some food products ... it's hard to find anything that isn't made in china these days ...

    i've boycotted israeli goods for as long as i can think which is real easy for me as i'm not a huge consumer ... but the reality is - that the country of focus should be the USA ... without there billion dollars of military "aid" - israel would not be able to continue to thrive the way it has ...
  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    edited August 2010
    Commy wrote:
    a good project, one that may be in place already...would be a website linking products that come from israel or benefit israel.


    anyone know of something like this?





    like how do you boycott israel, how do you start? i can't imagine very many foods in my supermarket come from tel aviv, maybe the kosher salt i am so fond of, but can't imagine my shopping would have to change much to boycott israel. still, it is something i would be more than willing to do, given a starting place.
    there was a really good site that had pages and pages of products but unfortunately when i checked, it's no longer there. it also listed companies that support Israel which i try and boycott as well. problem is, there's so damn many of them.

    there is plenty of other sites though with similar information.

    http://infidelkafirwatch.wordpress.com/ ... -from-now/

    this one also talks about why we should consider boycotting Israel.
    http://www.bigcampaign.org/
    Post edited by TriumphantAngel on
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    thanks for the links.... lots of good info there.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    just quickly too..

    in Olympia, (Rachel Corries hometown), not so long ago the board of directors of the Olympia Food Co-op made a decision that no more Israeli products will be sold at its two grocery stores in the city.

    they decided unanimously that the financial consequences of this action were secondary to making their voices heard and adopted the boycott.

    high five to them.
  • haffajappahaffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    polaris_x wrote:
    aside from some food products ... it's hard to find anything that isn't made in china these days ...

    i've boycotted israeli goods for as long as i can think which is real easy for me as i'm not a huge consumer ... but the reality is - that the country of focus should be the USA ... without there billion dollars of military "aid" - israel would not be able to continue to thrive the way it has ...
    Boycott America! ;)
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    later in the interview he talks about how a european company slated to build light rails from jerusalem to the settlements lost a multi-billion dollar contract because of the boycott.


    and now the rails aren't being built.
  • Eliot RosewaterEliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    This is one of those things I don't think about every day. But every time I think about it I get hostile inside. I fucking hate Israel and what they've done and are doing. Looks like no more kit kats for me.
  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    haffajappa wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    aside from some food products ... it's hard to find anything that isn't made in china these days ...

    i've boycotted israeli goods for as long as i can think which is real easy for me as i'm not a huge consumer ... but the reality is - that the country of focus should be the USA ... without there billion dollars of military "aid" - israel would not be able to continue to thrive the way it has ...
    Boycott America! ;)

    ha. true.
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    haffajappa wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    aside from some food products ... it's hard to find anything that isn't made in china these days ...

    i've boycotted israeli goods for as long as i can think which is real easy for me as i'm not a huge consumer ... but the reality is - that the country of focus should be the USA ... without there billion dollars of military "aid" - israel would not be able to continue to thrive the way it has ...
    Boycott America! ;)
    no but the BDS movement stands for Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions. The boycott is focused at Israel while the divest from Israel movement is focused at different countries, especially the US, who need to be encouraged to divest from Israel. Norway I believe has already divested (in some aspects) from different Israeli companies/companies that support Israel.
  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    the sums involved are not large, but their international significance is huge.......

    Anti-Israel economic boycotts are gaining speed



    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/bu ... d-1.312210
  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    Isn't it a little hypocritical to decry collective punishment of Palestinians, but then turn around and call for collective punishment of Israelis? Especially when there are many boycott efforts that target settlements exclusively, thereby showing opposition to the occupation and not to Israel as a whole.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    yosi wrote:
    Isn't it a little hypocritical to decry collective punishment of Palestinians, but then turn around and call for collective punishment of Israelis? Especially when there are many boycott efforts that target settlements exclusively, thereby showing opposition to the occupation and not to Israel as a whole.

    did you just try to insinuate that collectively boycotting Israeli goods is the same as collectively punishing an entire population of people through brute force, cruelty, inhumane treatment and occupation?

    which is worse, indiscriminate boycotting of products, or indiscriminate bombing, murdering and imprisoning an entire population of people?

    don't you dare try and insinuate they have the same consequences.
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    yosi wrote:
    Isn't it a little hypocritical to decry collective punishment of Palestinians, but then turn around and call for collective punishment of Israelis? Especially when there are many boycott efforts that target settlements exclusively, thereby showing opposition to the occupation and not to Israel as a whole.
    like TA pointed out, equating the oppressors and the oppressed does not work. The best example of how boycott works is South Africa in the mid-80s. as for the boycotts that exclusively target the settlements, the occupation is not the only crime Israel is guilty of. If you bothered to watch the video in the first post, Omar Barghouti pointed out many instances in which Palestinians are discriminated against within Israel.
  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    I wasn't saying the consequences would be the same. Please don't put words in my mouth. I was simply saying that a boycott of Israel as a whole punishes Israelis indiscriminately. Since many people here have said repeatedly say that their issue is mainly with Israel's actions related to the occupation, and have further framed those issues in terms of opposition to Israel's "collective punishment" of Palestinians, I was simply trying to point out that what is being suggested is essentially to fight fire with (I grant you a smaller) fire, which seems to me to be a dubious moral stance, and that there are other alternatives that allow for a more targeted approach that would not punish Israelis indiscriminately (remember, there are thousands of Israelis on the front lines of the fight to end the occupation and to get fairer treatment for Israel's non-Jewish citizens. These people would also be the targets of a general boycott of Israel). As for discrimination in Israel, I do not mean to play down its importance, or the need to deal with it, but discrimination in itself is not enough to justify a world-wide boycott of a country. If that was the case we'd be boycotting France for its stance on veils, and Switzerland for its law about minarets, and the US for continued discrimination against blacks, latinos, etc. and just about every country on earth.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • ajedigeckoajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,430
    no.
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    yosi wrote:
    I wasn't saying the consequences would be the same. Please don't put words in my mouth. I was simply saying that a boycott of Israel as a whole punishes Israelis indiscriminately. Since many people here have said repeatedly say that their issue is mainly with Israel's actions related to the occupation, and have further framed those issues in terms of opposition to Israel's "collective punishment" of Palestinians, I was simply trying to point out that what is being suggested is essentially to fight fire with (I grant you a smaller) fire, which seems to me to be a dubious moral stance, and that there are other alternatives that allow for a more targeted approach that would not punish Israelis indiscriminately (remember, there are thousands of Israelis on the front lines of the fight to end the occupation and to get fairer treatment for Israel's non-Jewish citizens. These people would also be the targets of a general boycott of Israel). As for discrimination in Israel, I do not mean to play down its importance, or the need to deal with it, but discrimination in itself is not enough to justify a world-wide boycott of a country. If that was the case we'd be boycotting France for its stance on veils, and Switzerland for its law about minarets, and the US for continued discrimination against blacks, latinos, etc. and just about every country on earth.
    something that played a part in ending south africa apartheid shouldn't be overlooked here.


    besides i think collectively the boycotts could affect israeli trade, something that hits the target directly. a few business owners here and there might also be affected, but overall the target is the state of israel.
  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    Ok, understood. So you're in favor of collective punishment. I'll call the Gazan's and let them know how you feel.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    you're equating violence with refusing to buy something.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    wasn't there a thread a few weeks ago that said boycotting israel is against the law or people or countries would be fined if it were shown they were boycotting israeli goods or something?
    yes. its even retroactive, meaning you have to prove you have stopped boycotting israel if you were suspected of doing so up to a year (i believe) before the law was put into effect. it even prevents entry into Israel if you have participated in boycotts outside of israel. and the fines are ridiculous, tens of thousands of US dollars.


    draconian measures to be sure.
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    yosi wrote:
    Ok, understood. So you're in favor of collective punishment. I'll call the Gazan's and let them know how you feel.
    you're again equating oppressors with those being oppressed.
  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    No, actually I'm equating collective punishment to collective punishment. There's a saying. Maybe you've heard it? "Two wrongs don't make a right."
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    yosi wrote:
    No, actually I'm equating collective punishment to collective punishment. There's a saying. Maybe you've heard it? "Two wrongs don't make a right."
    No actually. You're conveniently ignoring the context around the Gaza Blockade and the call for boycott in order to further your misguided point. the two are in nowhere near the same. I mean, forget the fact that the guy in the Israeli government who proposed the blockade of Gaza to begin with said it would serve a purpose of starving the Palestinians, and the fact that the blockade restricts the most basic humanitarian needs in terms of food, water, clean sewage pipes, power, medicine and medical equipment, building supplies, etc etc. and that due to this lack of items, hundreds of Palestinians died from things that should be easily accessible. the call for BDS on the other hand is after the Israeli government has refused to comply with international law for over 60 years; they have an institutionalized discrimination policy against a minority non-Jewish population that is very reminiscent of apartheid policies in South Africa, especially that which is practiced in the West Bank. because the international community has refused to enforce international law, it is up to ordinary citizens in different countries to pressure their communities, governments, etc, to boycott israel since the base of support for israeli apartheid policies lies in their political and economic ties between Israel and our governments. this was a successful campaign that helped call international attention to south african apartheid and it is modeled after that. of course, during that time perhaps you would've been siding with the oppressive south african regime as well.... :roll:
  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    yosi wrote:
    Ok, understood. So you're in favor of collective punishment. I'll call the Gazan's and let them know how you feel.
    good luck with that. i hope you have lots of spare time on your hands and don't mind pressing redial plenty of times before you might be lucky enough to get through to who you wish to speak to.

    it's not the easiest place in the world to make a call to.
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