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Punishment of higher ups of Gulf Oil Spill?

musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
edited August 2010 in A Moving Train
obviously, some were only workers. some were just doing their job, and some oddly, were improbably environmentalist oil rig workers. but im talking the big wigs. the ceos. the people who were in charge, the bosses.

what should be done to people like that? I doubt anyone involved in the thing will ever be the same. One would hope that the ceo's and big wigs have nightmares and are haunted until the day they die about the destruction they caused, but maybe thats hoping too much.

what should be done to those who created one of the worst environmental disasters in history? Should they be forced to work at Greenpeace or Sea Shepard for the rest of their life? Or should something more punitive happen to them?
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  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    i would say jail them. but i would like to see this...

    1. take away all of their money, and their mansions, and their yachts, and their cars, and their stock and their golden parachutes.
    2. make them live on $30,000 a year like many of the rest of the people in the US
    3. make them work on a shrimp boat and witness first hand how so many people are affected by their negligence.

    but of course none of this will ever happen. the bigwigs can buy justice and they will sleep just as easily and comfortably as before the tragedy...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    ultimately what needs to be done is to prevent them from ever doing something like that again. not just this specific company, but the entire industry.




    put restrictions on drilling. if a company does not have the technology to fix a problem if something goes wrong they should not be allowed to drill at that location.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    aah you pussies :P :lol: ... this is what brad pitt thinks should happen:


    http://celebrities.ninemsn.com.au/blog. ... ments=true


    Brad Pitt has harsh words for those responsible for the Gulf Coast oil spill saying he was against the death penalty before the crisis but he is now “willing to look at it again".
    The actor makes the inflammatory comment in a Spike Lee documentary, which is to be aired on HBO in the US on Monday.

    If God Is Willing and Da Creek Don't Rise is the director's sequel to his 2006 film about Hurricane Katrina, When the Levees Broke.

    Lee's new film features Brad, whose Make It Right project has spearheaded efforts to build 150 affordable and sustainable homes in New Orleans Lower Ninth Ward, which was heavily hit by the 2005 natural disaster.

    Asked about those responsible for the BP oil spill, which has affected the region, the father-of-six says, "I was never for the death penalty before. I am willing to look at it again."

    Lee's film was supposed to end on a positive note with the New Orleans Saints' Super Bowl victory, but when the Gulf of Mexico oil disaster happened in April, the 53-year-old director extended filming to include that story.





    :shock:
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  • musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
    i wrote the original post in full knowledge of brads quote. i myself agree with him. although i am anti death penalty as well, the people who let it happen, and didnt care and still dont care are deserving of some cruel and inhumane treatment in my view. i personally avoided reading about the oil spill and still dont know much beyond the fact that its the biggest environmental disaster in history, or at least in the top 2.

    to think about the effect it has had on humans of course, but more immediately to non human life is to get immediately sucked into depression and despair.


    the effect of the gulf oil spill will be felt for the rest of our lives.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    what i find fascinating is that it was this that has brad pitt rethinking his stance on the death penalty... not all the other heinous crimes against innocents. i think brads a touch over reacting. i dont think reckless disregard for life is the same as murder. though one can argue that murder does show a reckless disregard for life. not that i ever think its applicable but in this case a call for the death penalty is just hysteria.
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  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    surely you're either for or against the death penalty.

    no ifs, buts, or maybe.
  • musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
    catefrances wrote:
    what i find fascinating is that it was this that has brad pitt rethinking his stance on the death penalty... not all the other heinous crimes against innocents. i think brads a touch over reacting. i dont think reckless disregard for life is the same as murder. though one can argue that murder does show a reckless disregard for life. not that i ever think its applicable but in this case a call for the death penalty is just hysteria.

    i think for alot of people brad represents hollywood. he's a hollywood star. people expect these people to be full of themselves, entitled, egocentric and greedy.

    while i obviously dont know mr pitt, i am a huge fan of his films, and have read quite about about him.

    he's extremely intelligent, and seems to have an almost buddhist and zen view on life.

    while he is on the cover of people, and in tabloids, i get the sense the guy doesnt care one bit about fame or money or any of that.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    TriumphantAngel wrote:
    surely you're either for or against the death penalty.

    no ifs, buts, or maybe.


    youd think so wouldnt you?
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  • musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
    the assertion that reckless disreguard for life isnt murder is rubbish. the earth isnt dying. its being killed and murdered. this wasnt a disreguarding of life. this was murder. the whole point as i said of my not paying attention to this disaster, too closely, was the fact I knew how horrible this was on life in the ocean, aquatic life.

    and lets be honest, if some company injected poison in their food and did so in millions of boxes of their food, like for instance say ritz crackers were sold with poison in them, and millions of cases of them were poisonous, resulting in deaths of millions.

    people wouldnt say that was disreguard for life, they'd say it was murder and rightly so. those people responsible would be shot immediately on site.

    I saw brads right. the people who did this are sick. and i honestly do hope their every waking and non waking life, for the rest of their life is plagued with visions of the horror they unleashed.

    in my book, the act of unleashing millions of barrels of oil into the ocean is something that is beyond, way beyond.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    musicismylife78 wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    what i find fascinating is that it was this that has brad pitt rethinking his stance on the death penalty... not all the other heinous crimes against innocents. i think brads a touch over reacting. i dont think reckless disregard for life is the same as murder. though one can argue that murder does show a reckless disregard for life. not that i ever think its applicable but in this case a call for the death penalty is just hysteria.

    i think for alot of people brad represents hollywood. he's a hollywood star. people expect these people to be full of themselves, entitled, egocentric and greedy.

    while i obviously dont know mr pitt, i am a huge fan of his films, and have read quite about about him.

    he's extremely intelligent, and seems to have an almost buddhist and zen view on life.

    while he is on the cover of people, and in tabloids, i get the sense the guy doesnt care one bit about fame or money or any of that.
    \\

    as you said... you dont know brad pitt. nor do i. maybe it was a throwaway line taken seriously.. i know i took it at face value cause the death penalty is serious business.
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  • musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
    catefrances wrote:
    what i find fascinating is that it was this that has brad pitt rethinking his stance on the death penalty... not all the other heinous crimes against innocents. i think brads a touch over reacting. i dont think reckless disregard for life is the same as murder. though one can argue that murder does show a reckless disregard for life. not that i ever think its applicable but in this case a call for the death penalty is just hysteria.


    Why is the death penalty in this case, but other cases warranted? Why is it hysteria in this case, but if a man killed 6 people, few people would say it was hysteria then. what is the death count, aquatic marine life death count as a result of this tragedy? Its gotta be in the millions. I remember seeing Planet Earth and Life, schools of fishes were in the hundreds and thousands. its not crazy to think maybe this approaches the billions in terms of aquatic life death.

    as far as i am concerned i am against the death penalty, and am supportive of mumia, peltier and the wm3 all of whom could be victims of it. but in this case, i see brads point.

    if you kill millions of fish and birds, and plant life, what is acceptable punishment? It sure as hell isnt 5 years in jail!
  • musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
    catefrances wrote:
    musicismylife78 wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    what i find fascinating is that it was this that has brad pitt rethinking his stance on the death penalty... not all the other heinous crimes against innocents. i think brads a touch over reacting. i dont think reckless disregard for life is the same as murder. though one can argue that murder does show a reckless disregard for life. not that i ever think its applicable but in this case a call for the death penalty is just hysteria.

    i think for alot of people brad represents hollywood. he's a hollywood star. people expect these people to be full of themselves, entitled, egocentric and greedy.

    while i obviously dont know mr pitt, i am a huge fan of his films, and have read quite about about him.

    he's extremely intelligent, and seems to have an almost buddhist and zen view on life.

    while he is on the cover of people, and in tabloids, i get the sense the guy doesnt care one bit about fame or money or any of that.
    \\

    as you said... you dont know brad pitt. nor do i. maybe it was a throwaway line taken seriously.. i know i took it at face value cause the death penalty is serious business.

    i agree its serious buisness. but if its gonna be used, why not here? It is currently used to murder scores of black men, whose only crime was being poor and of color, its used also as a political tool. why use it to murder innocent people like peltier, and mumia. and the wm3.

    if its being used why not use it for bonafide and true killers like those involved in this?
  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    Commy wrote:
    ultimately what needs to be done is to prevent them from ever doing something like that again. not just this specific company, but the entire industry.




    put restrictions on drilling. if a company does not have the technology to fix a problem if something goes wrong they should not be allowed to drill at that location.
    ^^^
    this


    then no one will need to worry about debating whether or not the death penalty should apply.

    surely it's not that hard. why can't lessons be learnt from this and steps be taken to ensure that it doesn't happen again. the same thing happened 30 years ago and nothing changed apart from the oil companies learning how to dig deeper. no workable steps were put in place to avoid another disaster.

    and here we are again.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    musicismylife78 wrote:
    the assertion that reckless disreguard for life isnt murder is rubbish. the earth isnt dying. its being killed and murdered. this wasnt a disreguarding of life. this was murder. the whole point as i said of my not paying attention to this disaster, too closely, was the fact I knew how horrible this was on life in the ocean, aquatic life.

    and lets be honest, if some company injected poison in their food and did so in millions of boxes of their food, like for instance say ritz crackers were sold with poison in them, and millions of cases of them were poisonous, resulting in deaths of millions.

    people wouldnt say that was disreguard for life, they'd say it was murder and rightly so. those people responsible would be shot immediately on site.

    I saw brads right. the people who did this are sick. and i honestly do hope their every waking and non waking life, for the rest of their life is plagued with visions of the horror they unleashed.

    in my book, the act of unleashing millions of barrels of oil into the ocean is something that is beyond, way beyond.

    intent. theres no intent in the deaths of those workers. injecting crackers with poison shows intent.

    some people would say thrillseeker show a reckless disregard for life. but what theyre doing isnt murder now is it??
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  • musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
    i dont see your argument here. rejecting the death penalty on moral and ethical grounds is something i respect and alot of times am in agreement with.

    in this case you seem to be suggesting the death penalty is wrong, not in a moral or ethical perspective and stance, but because you seem to view this crime as somehow lesser than some crimes? I dont know.

    All you said was this was diseguard of life and not murder. how do animals and oceanic life view that statement. the millions of oceanic life killed, do they consider it murder?

    i look at animal life and human life as the same. i dont kill humans and i am a vegetarian because I dont believe in killing animals.

    this world is beyond messed up when the murder of millions of animals results in it being termed disreguard for life as opposed to what it really is.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    musicismylife78 wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    \\

    as you said... you dont know brad pitt. nor do i. maybe it was a throwaway line taken seriously.. i know i took it at face value cause the death penalty is serious business.

    i agree its serious buisness. but if its gonna be used, why not here? It is currently used to murder scores of black men, whose only crime was being poor and of color, its used also as a political tool. why use it to murder innocent people like peltier, and mumia. and the wm3.

    if its being used why not use it for bonafide and true killers like those involved in this?


    why use it AT ALL. in my mind there is no situation that warrants the use of the death penalty.
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  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    catefrances wrote:
    musicismylife78 wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    \\

    as you said... you dont know brad pitt. nor do i. maybe it was a throwaway line taken seriously.. i know i took it at face value cause the death penalty is serious business.

    i agree its serious buisness. but if its gonna be used, why not here? It is currently used to murder scores of black men, whose only crime was being poor and of color, its used also as a political tool. why use it to murder innocent people like peltier, and mumia. and the wm3.

    if its being used why not use it for bonafide and true killers like those involved in this?


    why use it AT ALL. in my mind there is no situation that warrants the use of the death penalty.
    i agree. that's how it is for me too.
  • musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
    so you are suggesting to me the ceos and higher ups and bosses sat up at night and thought, gee this could all go wrong and we could unleash horror?

    if you drive drunk and end up crashing and killing people, thats murder whether you thought about getting drunk to kill people or if it was just a sad byproduct.

    murder is murder. i personally view it all the same. i dont view one death as more important or less important than another. all murder is wrong. human and non human alike.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    musicismylife78 wrote:
    i dont see your argument here. rejecting the death penalty on moral and ethical grounds is something i respect and alot of times am in agreement with.

    in this case you seem to be suggesting the death penalty is wrong, not in a moral or ethical perspective and stance, but because you seem to view this crime as somehow lesser than some crimes? I dont know.

    All you said was this was diseguard of life and not murder. how do animals and oceanic life view that statement. the millions of oceanic life killed, do they consider it murder?

    i look at animal life and human life as the same. i dont kill humans and i am a vegetarian because I dont believe in killing animals.

    this world is beyond messed up when the murder of millions of animals results in it being termed disreguard for life as opposed to what it really is.

    are you even reading my posts?? nowhere have i said the death penalty is this case is wrong cause i see the deaths of those workers as somehow less than... many times on this forum i have stated that i find the death penalty abhorrant and not a right mankind should have. what i am saying is for this to be the catalyst for someone rethinking their stance on the death penalty is hysteria. and yes i see the actions or inactions of those in charge to be reckless disregard for the safety and lives of those workers. did they intemd for the workers to die?? no they did not. in fact i doubt they give the workers who afford them their wealth much thought at all.
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  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    musicismylife78 wrote:
    so you are suggesting to me the ceos and higher ups and bosses sat up at night and thought, gee this could all go wrong and we could unleash horror?

    if you drive drunk and end up crashing and killing people, thats murder whether you thought about getting drunk to kill people or if it was just a sad byproduct.

    murder is murder. i personally view it all the same. i dont view one death as more important or less important than another. all murder is wrong. human and non human alike.
    if all murder is the same to you, then how could you even think about entertaining supporting the death penalty in some instances and not in others.

    seems a bit hypocritical to me.

    you're either in or you're out.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    musicismylife78 wrote:
    so you are suggesting to me the ceos and higher ups and bosses sat up at night and thought, gee this could all go wrong and we could unleash horror?

    if you drive drunk and end up crashing and killing people, thats murder whether you thought about getting drunk to kill people or if it was just a sad byproduct.

    murder is murder. i personally view it all the same. i dont view one death as more important or less important than another. all murder is wrong. human and non human alike.

    no im not. where are you getting this from?

    oh please driving drunk shows an intention to drive drunk, not to kill people. unfortunately that can be a byproduct of driving drunk and thats why driving drunk is a crime. murder is primarily a human 'invention'. and a legal one at that. i know primates that murder but they dont call it that, we call it that cause we tend to view everything anthropomorphically.
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  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    regarding the death penalty....

    TriumphantAngel wrote:
    you're either in or you're out.




    ^this.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Commy wrote:
    regarding the death penalty....

    TriumphantAngel wrote:
    you're either in or you're out.




    ^this.

    MIML78 is with us on this. what hes not getting i think is that im differentiating between murder and manslaughter.or he is getting it and doesnt agree. he is of the opinion as far as i can see that deaths whether they be through intent or reckless disregard or even mismanagement are all murder. i disagree.
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  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    catefrances wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    regarding the death penalty....

    TriumphantAngel wrote:
    you're either in or you're out.




    ^this.

    MIML78 is with us on this.


    negative, he is siding with bradd pitt saying he might consider the death penalty in this case.



    they are saying they are against the death penalty "but".... there is no room for exceptions in this issue, you are either in or out, as TA says.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Commy wrote:

    negative, he is siding with bradd pitt saying he might consider the death penalty in this case.



    they are saying they are against the death penalty "but"    .... there is no room for exceptions in this issue, you are either in or out, as TA says.

    now that just confuses me. but i seriously thought he is against the death penalty but was saying murder is murder as is killing without intent as is killing wildlife. no wonder im fucking confused. i need a drink.
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  • Thorns2010Thorns2010 Posts: 2,201
    Oh, the joys of the vegetarians that say eating meat is murder. How I love thee. So.......you do know that the plants you eat are also alive right? Yes, they do not have a higher cognitive brain function or anything. But, if I'm reading this right, the death of a living animal by man is murder.

    So how is it that the death of the soybeans that you eat, or the corn that you eat, or the potato that you eat, how is that NOT murder in your eyes?

    Now, I'm not saying that we should abuse animals that we use for food, or treat them 'inhumanly', but where is the line drawn for a vegatarian?

    Why is it ok to raise, breed, and farm crops, but not ok to do that with animals?

    I know this is WAY off topic, but I felt like asking the question, so I did.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Thorns2010 wrote:
    Oh, the joys of the vegetarians that say eating meat is murder. How I love thee. So.......you do know that the plants you eat are also alive right? Yes, they do not have a higher cognitive brain function or anything. But, if I'm reading this right, the death of a living animal by man is murder.

    So how is it that the death of the soybeans that you eat, or the corn that you eat, or the potato that you eat, how is that NOT murder in your eyes?

    Now, I'm not saying that we should abuse animals that we use for food, or treat them 'inhumanly', but where is the line drawn for a vegatarian?

    Why is it ok to raise, breed, and farm crops, but not ok to do that with animals?

    I know this is WAY off topic, but I felt like asking the question, so I did.
    i think pain and suffering have a lot to do with their ethos. corn dos not feel pain, ergo, it is acceptable food. plants don't feel pain, animals do.
  • OnTheEdgeOnTheEdge Posts: 1,300
    Commy wrote:
    ultimately what needs to be done is to prevent them from ever doing something like that again. not just this specific company, but the entire industry.




    put restrictions on drilling. if a company does not have the technology to fix a problem if something goes wrong they should not be allowed to drill at that location.


    Agreed
  • OnTheEdgeOnTheEdge Posts: 1,300
    catefrances wrote:
    aah you pussies :P :lol: ... this is what brad pitt thinks should happen:


    http://celebrities.ninemsn.com.au/blog. ... ments=true


    Brad Pitt has harsh words for those responsible for the Gulf Coast oil spill saying he was against the death penalty before the crisis but he is now “willing to look at it again".
    The actor makes the inflammatory comment in a Spike Lee documentary, which is to be aired on HBO in the US on Monday.

    If God Is Willing and Da Creek Don't Rise is the director's sequel to his 2006 film about Hurricane Katrina, When the Levees Broke.

    Lee's new film features Brad, whose Make It Right project has spearheaded efforts to build 150 affordable and sustainable homes in New Orleans Lower Ninth Ward, which was heavily hit by the 2005 natural disaster.

    Asked about those responsible for the BP oil spill, which has affected the region, the father-of-six says, "I was never for the death penalty before. I am willing to look at it again."

    Lee's film was supposed to end on a positive note with the New Orleans Saints' Super Bowl victory, but when the Gulf of Mexico oil disaster happened in April, the 53-year-old director extended filming to include that story.





    :shock:


    Hollywood liberals are so entertaining.
  • OnTheEdgeOnTheEdge Posts: 1,300
    Holy shit people. We kill thousands of fish every day for food. Get the fuck over it. The Gulf cleaned itself up and took care of itself just like I always said it was going to. This planet is resiliant. Yes, it's sad that we lost some birds, and 3 mammals, but you people have protected the rights of child raping murderers on the train many times when it comes to the death penalty. But it's ok for an oil company? You people are wacked and have your wires crossed. Every fucking one of you use oil in your daily lives.....fucking hypocrites!


    The only ones that put people in the gulf out of work is this administration of ours. Not allowing people to go back to work on the rigs.

    FUCKING DRILL BABY FUCKING DRILL!!!!!
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