Hamas, the I.R.A., and Us

fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
edited August 2010 in A Moving Train
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opini ... .html?_r=1

Hamas, the I.R.A., and Us
By Ali Abunimah

GEORGE J. MITCHELL, the United States Middle East envoy, tried to counter low expectations for renewed Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations by harking back to his experience as a mediator in Northern Ireland.

At an Aug. 20 news conference with Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, announcing the talks that will begin this week, Mr. Mitchell reminded journalists that during difficult negotiations in Northern Ireland, “We had about 700 days of failure and one day of success” — the day in 1998 that the Belfast Agreement instituting power-sharing between pro-British unionists and Irish nationalists was signed.

Mr. Mitchell’s comparison is misleading at best. Success in the Irish talks was the result not just of determination and time, but also a very different United States approach to diplomacy.

The conflict in Northern Ireland had been intractable for decades. Unionists backed by the British government saw any political compromise with Irish nationalists as a danger, one that would lead to a united Ireland in which a Catholic majority would dominate minority Protestant unionists. The British government also refused to deal with the Irish nationalist party Sinn Fein, despite its significant electoral mandate, because of its close ties to the Irish Republican Army, which had carried out violent acts in the United Kingdom.

A parallel can be seen with the American refusal to speak to the Palestinian party Hamas, which decisively won elections in the West Bank and Gaza in 2006. Asked what role Hamas would have in the renewed talks, Mr. Mitchell answered with one word: “None.” No serious analyst believes that peace can be made between Palestinians and Israelis without Hamas on board, any more than could have been the case in Northern Ireland without Sinn Fein and the I.R.A.

The United States insists that Hamas meet strict preconditions before it can take part in negotiations: recognize Israel, renounce violence and abide by agreements previously signed between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization, of which Hamas is not a member. These demands are unworkable. Why should Hamas or any Palestinian accept Israel’s political demands, like recognition, when Israel refuses to recognize basic Palestinian demands like the right of return for refugees?

As for violence, Hamas has inflicted a fraction of the harm on Israeli civilians that Israel inflicts on Palestinian civilians. If violence disqualifies Hamas, surely much greater violence should disqualify the Israelis?

It was only by breaking with one-sided demands that Mr. Mitchell was able to help bring peace to Northern Ireland. In 1994, for instance, Mr. Mitchell, then a Democratic senator from Maine, urged President Bill Clinton — against strenuous British objections — to grant a United States visa to Gerry Adams, the Sinn Fein leader. Mr. Mitchell later wrote that he believed the visa would enable Mr. Adams “to persuade the I.R.A. to declare a cease-fire, and permit Sinn Fein to enter into inclusive political negotiations.” As mediator, Mr. Mitchell insisted that a cease-fire apply to all parties equally, not just to the I.R.A.

Both the Irish and Middle Eastern conflicts figure prominently in American domestic politics — yet both have played out in very different ways. The United States allowed the Irish-American lobby to help steer policy toward the weaker side: the Irish government in Dublin and Sinn Fein and other nationalist parties in the north. At times, the United States put intense pressure on the British government, leveling the field so that negotiations could result in an agreement with broad support. By contrast, the American government let the Israel lobby shift the balance of United States support toward the stronger of the two parties: Israel.

This disparity has not gone unnoticed by those with firsthand knowledge of the Irish talks. In a 2009 letter to The Times of London, several British and Irish negotiators, including John Hume, who shared the Nobel Peace Prize for the Belfast Agreement, criticized the one-sided demands imposed solely on Hamas. “Engaging Hamas,” the negotiators wrote, “does not amount to condoning terrorism or attacks on civilians. In fact, it is a precondition for security and for brokering a workable agreement.”

The resumption of peace talks without any Israeli commitment to freeze settlements is another significant victory for the Israel lobby and the Israeli government. It allows Israel to pose as a willing peacemaker while carrying on with business as usual.

As for Mr. Mitchell, since he was appointed Middle East envoy, he has so far enjoyed almost 600 days of failure. As long as the United States maintains the same hopeless approach, he can expect many more.

Ali Abunimah is the author of “One Country: A Bold Proposal to End the Israeli-Palestinian Impasse.”
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • great article. love Ali Abunimah, he makes so much sense.

    thanks for sharing.
  • yes, an excellent article. it really helps put the issue in a greater light for me, because i'll openly admit there are plenty of times when i am baffled by the israeli-palestinian conflict. however, i grew up in a family fiercely proud of its irish lineage and where sympathies for organizations like the ira and sinn fein were felt (though i was too young to understand the horror in that). so it gives the issue a comparison point that makes sense to me.

    it goes to show the power of lobbying; i'm also given to think that maybe some of the reluctance to include hamas in the talks is prejudice... maybe? in my mind i'm making connections with the current time magazine cover; i think whether we realize it or not, a lot of our attitudes are probably shaped by islamophobia. whereas we could give a horrible organization like sinn fein a place to speak, we can't give hamas a chance to be a part of peace negotiations in their own conflict? that's a little backwards.

    i dunno. i probably sound like a conspiracy theorist, or at least like i'm very naive. but this article puts an interesting perspective on this issue for me. thanks for sharing.


    **edit: typo.
    that's faarkokte.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    from the (very good) article..

    The United States insists that Hamas meet strict preconditions before it can take part in negotiations: recognize Israel, renounce violence and abide by agreements previously signed between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization,...


    ...

    The United States is very pro Israel, obviously, but any serious chance at peace must have both parties in mind, becasue it is very one sided against the Palestinian people as it is. very one sided.

    Because Israel does not have to recognize Palestine, it does not have to renounce violence, and its constant expansion and fence building is in violation of many agreements they have signed, not to mention their all out attack on Gaza last year. To place conditions on one side while the other gets off with nothing, almost dooms the peace talks before they begin.
  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    While there may be some similarities between Hamas and the IRA, the article totally elides the glaring differences, namely that the IRA was never concerned with destroying Britain, only with "freeing" Ireland, whereas Hamas is explicitly dedicated to Israel's destruction. The preconditions that the US and Israel demand of Hamas are simply that they make clear that they have given up on this goal. It really makes very little sense to negotiate with someone who's explicit goal is the destruction of your country (as opposed to the establishment of their own country as a peaceful neighbor). In this light Abuminah's suggestion that Hamas not be made to recognize Israel's existence until Israel recognizes the Palestinian "right of return" makes no sense (in fact it is more than a little perfidious), because a full recognition of the "right of return" would spell the end of Israel as a Jewish state (i.e., it would fulfill Hamas' goal of destroying Israel), thus making Hamas' recognition of Israel utterly meaningless.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    You're focusing on the items you deem correct.. ie Hamas' intent or destruction of Israel via right to return. These are your beliefs on these topics, not 100% factual, so to dismiss the entire article because of them isn't exactly viewing it openly or from an impartial perspective.

    Anyways, a good book about this topic is "How Terrorism Ends: Understanding the Decline and Demise of Terrorist Campaigns" (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/How-Terrorism-Ends/Audrey-Kurth-Cronin/e/9780691139487/?itm=1&USRI=how+terrorism+ends+understanding+the+decline)
    yosi wrote:
    While there may be some similarities between Hamas and the IRA, the article totally elides the glaring differences, namely that the IRA was never concerned with destroying Britain, only with "freeing" Ireland, whereas Hamas is explicitly dedicated to Israel's destruction. The preconditions that the US and Israel demand of Hamas are simply that they make clear that they have given up on this goal. It really makes very little sense to negotiate with someone who's explicit goal is the destruction of your country (as opposed to the establishment of their own country as a peaceful neighbor). In this light Abuminah's suggestion that Hamas not be made to recognize Israel's existence until Israel recognizes the Palestinian "right of return" makes no sense (in fact it is more than a little perfidious), because a full recognition of the "right of return" would spell the end of Israel as a Jewish state (i.e., it would fulfill Hamas' goal of destroying Israel), thus making Hamas' recognition of Israel utterly meaningless.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    Fair enough, although I would argue that my reading of the situation is firmly based in the facts. The demographics of Israel and the Palestinian refugees are well established, as is the record on where Hamas stands vis a vis Israel's long-term existence as a Jewish state. I am only putting two and two together.

    My intention was not to discredit the entire article, merely to point out that the comparison it makes doesn't take account of the many ways in which the two situations are entirely dissimilar.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Albeit very distrustful of the actual commentary, Hamas has recently stated about having a duel state peace solution with the 1967 borders. It may be just talk, but it does represent an effort and openness about showing signs or means to have a two state peaceful solution. Also, the idea that if refugees came back it would lead to the end of Israel is merely an alarmist viewpoint. There are currently tons of Palestinians living in Israel currently and there being their doesn't undermind Israel livelihood as a state either. Mostly it comes down the certain factions on each side which perpetuate violence and polarize the populations against one another which is all backed by the long history of wars, distrust and insecurity with the other side. No one wants to give the other side an inch, but as we all know, the best solutions between 2 parties in life usually leave both sides a little lacking but everyone wins in the end.
    yosi wrote:
    Fair enough, although I would argue that my reading of the situation is firmly based in the facts. The demographics of Israel and the Palestinian refugees are well established, as is the record on where Hamas stands vis a vis Israel's long-term existence as a Jewish state. I am only putting two and two together.

    My intention was not to discredit the entire article, merely to point out that the comparison it makes doesn't take account of the many ways in which the two situations are entirely dissimilar.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    yosi wrote:
    It really makes very little sense to negotiate with someone who's explicit goal is the destruction of your country (as opposed to the establishment of their own country as a peaceful neighbor).




    when has palestine had the chance to play that part? Israel has Gaza under siege, they set up check points trhoughout, cutting friends off from family, they sent in tanks and chopper and killed 1400 pepole this last year in gaza....all of this while big bad hamas in all out war mode killed all of 13 people, 10 of whom were military men. that's hamas at its worst, and the killed 13 people.



    but how can they even begin to establish a country with Israelconstantly fucking with them?
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