Ron Paul on the Islamic Center near Ground Zero

OpenOpen Posts: 792
edited September 2010 in A Moving Train
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=1077



Left and the Right Demagogue Mosque, Islam




Is the controversy over building a mosque near ground zero a grand distraction or a grand opportunity? Or is it, once again, grandiose demagoguery?

It has been said, "Nero fiddled while Rome burned." Are we not overly preoccupied with this controversy, now being used in various ways by grandstanding politicians? It looks to me like the politicians are "fiddling while the economy burns."

The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque.

Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be "sensitive" requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from "ground zero."

Just think of what might (not) have happened if the whole issue had been ignored and the national debate stuck with war, peace, and prosperity. There certainly would have been a lot less emotionalism on both sides. The fact that so much attention has been given the mosque debate, raises the question of just why and driven by whom?

In my opinion it has come from the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia and are compelled to constantly justify it.

They never miss a chance to use hatred toward Muslims to rally support for the ill conceived preventative wars. A select quote from soldiers from in Afghanistan and Iraq expressing concern over the mosque is pure propaganda and an affront to their bravery and sacrifice.

The claim is that we are in the Middle East to protect our liberties is misleading. To continue this charade, millions of Muslims are indicted and we are obligated to rescue them from their religious and political leaders. And, we're supposed to believe that abusing our liberties here at home and pursuing unconstitutional wars overseas will solve our problems.

The nineteen suicide bombers didn't come from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iran. Fifteen came from our ally Saudi Arabia, a country that harbors strong American resentment, yet we invade and occupy Iraq where no al Qaeda existed prior to 9/11.

Many fellow conservatives say they understand the property rights and 1st Amendment issues and don't want a legal ban on building the mosque. They just want everybody to be "sensitive" and force, through public pressure, cancellation of the mosque construction.

This sentiment seems to confirm that Islam itself is to be made the issue, and radical religious Islamic views were the only reasons for 9/11. If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible.

There is no doubt that a small portion of radical, angry Islamists do want to kill us but the question remains, what exactly motivates this hatred?

If Islam is further discredited by making the building of the mosque the issue, then the false justification for our wars in the Middle East will continue to be acceptable.

The justification to ban the mosque is no more rational than banning a soccer field in the same place because all the suicide bombers loved to play soccer.

Conservatives are once again, unfortunately, failing to defend private property rights, a policy we claim to cherish. In addition conservatives missed a chance to challenge the hypocrisy of the left which now claims they defend property rights of Muslims, yet rarely if ever, the property rights of American private businesses.

Defending the controversial use of property should be no more difficult than defending the 1st Amendment principle of defending controversial speech. But many conservatives and liberals do not want to diminish the hatred for Islam -- the driving emotion that keeps us in the wars in the Middle East and Central Asia.

It is repeatedly said that 64% of the people, after listening to the political demagogues, don't want the mosque to be built. What would we do if 75% of the people insist that no more Catholic churches be built in New York City? The point being is that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as well as individual dictators. Statistics of support is irrelevant when it comes to the purpose of government in a free society -- protecting liberty.

The outcry over the building of the mosque, near ground zero, implies that Islam alone was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. According to those who are condemning the building of the mosque, the nineteen suicide terrorists on 9/11 spoke for all Muslims. This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservatives' aggressive wars.

The House Speaker is now treading on a slippery slope by demanding an investigation to find out just who is funding the mosque -- a bold rejection of property rights, 1st Amendment rights, and the Rule of Law -- in order to look tough against Islam.

This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.

We now have an epidemic of "sunshine patriots" on both the right and the left who are all for freedom, as long as there's no controversy and nobody is offended.

Political demagoguery rules when truth and liberty are ignored.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    It is too bad he makes so much sense on just about every issue
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • VINNY GOOMBAVINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,818
    I was going to post this one myself. Once again, I couldn't agree more with the good doctor.
  • arqarq Posts: 8,049
    Ron Paul is the man. He's so good that there's no chance for him to become president :( One of the few people how make sense in politics.
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
    Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,158
    I just ordered his manifesto. I typically don't read political books but I think that this may be good exposure to an outside viewpoint.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • VINNY GOOMBAVINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,818
    Jason P wrote:
    I just ordered his manifesto. I typically don't read political books but I think that this may be good exposure to an outside viewpoint.

    It's an awesome book, and a very easy read. I'd recommend it to anyone. End The Fed is great too-- I still have to read "A Foreign Policy of Freedom" as that same section of "The Manifesto" is awesome.

    He is definitely gaining in popularity. He will always be the longshot for the nomination, but come 2012, he will not be able to be ignored like the mainstream media tried to do to him in '08.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Ron Paul is REAL change.

    Ron Paul 2012!
  • Open wrote:
    The nineteen suicide bombers didn't come from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iran. Fifteen came from our ally Saudi Arabia, a country that harbors strong American resentment, yet we invade and occupy Iraq where no al Qaeda existed prior to 9/11.
    a fact that too many people conveniently ignore.
    Open wrote:
    This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.
    correct.

    good article. thanks for posting.
  • dustinparduedustinpardue Las Vegas, NV Posts: 1,829
    What's sad is people are sensitive about a mosque near ground zero in the press, but the press stays away from the health problems the people who helped clean up that mess are experiencing. Who cares about a mosque, those workers' medical bills should be paid in full without question.
    "All I Ever Knew" available now in print and digital formats at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and iBooks.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,497
    I disagree with him in that "This is all about hate and Islamaphobia"...And man do I hate "Islamaphobia" and I can see becoming a very overused term, like a few others we have. Playing the Islamaphobia card. ;)

    Anyhow, I believe he is mostly right, so maybe I'm nitpicking. I do believe that it has a lot to do with an anti-lslam movement and some politicians are tapping into that for their personal gain. That said, I don't believe there would be this kind of uproar for a new mosque being built somewhere else, so it can't all just be "Islamaphobia".

    Once again though, those that are truly 100% anti-Islam and all those other idiots crying "Islamaphobia" for most everything are the real problem because they keep us from having an important discussion in a rational manner.

    Do they have a right to build it? Absolutely.

    Should they build it there? That's a good discussion just to understand the motives of all involved.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • I like Ron Paul and I like Rand even more,but I have to dissagree with about 70% this article.
  • arqarq Posts: 8,049
    prfctlefts wrote:
    I like Ron Paul and I like Rand even more,but I have to disagree with about 70% this article.

    What's wrong with the 70% of the article? or what's right with the other 30%?
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
    Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
  • I disagree with him in that "This is all about hate and Islamaphobia"...And man do I hate "Islamaphobia" and I can see becoming a very overused term, like a few others we have. Playing the Islamaphobia card. ;)

    Islamophobia.

    not Islamaphobia.

    so anyway, here's a video of an anti islam rally at ground zero.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwaNRWMN-F4


    after looking at this and taking note of their behaviour towards the black man who they thought was Muslim, what would you call these folks at their hate rally if not islamophobes?
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    What's sad is people are sensitive about a mosque near ground zero in the press, but the press stays away from the health problems the people who helped clean up that mess are experiencing. Who cares about a mosque, those workers' medical bills should be paid in full without question.

    I believe THIS is a way more important issue than a fucking building of a mosque near ground 1. I don't give a damn about this non issue, take care of the people with their health issues who took loving care to be there for rescuing others the days after 9/11. Let these people build their place of peace and let them be, one of the stupidest arguments I've seen Americans discuss in a long time.

    What's more important a Mosque near ground 1 or taking of the rescue workers and their severe health issues.

    http://www.democracynow.org/2009/9/11/e ... _11_ground

    ...and still fighting for health 8 years later a fucking shame!

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Ron Paul wrote:
    If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible.


    this point effectively ends the debate on whether or not to build a mosque near ground zero. 9/11 was a political attack, not religious. the end.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,158
    Commy wrote:
    Ron Paul wrote:
    If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible.


    this point effectively ends the debate on whether or not to build a mosque near ground zero. 9/11 was a political attack, not religious. the end.
    The attack was part of a fatwā. To say the attacks were not tied to religion is absurd.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    Jason P wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    Ron Paul wrote:
    If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible.


    this point effectively ends the debate on whether or not to build a mosque near ground zero. 9/11 was a political attack, not religious. the end.
    The attack was part of a fatwā. To say the attacks were not tied to religion is absurd.
    Lol! Do you even know what a fatwa is?
  • unsung wrote:
    Ron Paul is REAL change.

    Ron Paul 2012!

    Sounds good to me.
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."

    "With our thoughts we make the world"
  • Gary CarterGary Carter Posts: 14,067
    _outlaw wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    The attack was part of a fatwā. To say the attacks were not tied to religion is absurd.
    Lol! Do you even know what a fatwa is?

    i would guess no lol
    Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
    Sammi: Wanna just break up?

  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Commy wrote:
    Ron Paul wrote:
    If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible.


    this point effectively ends the debate on whether or not to build a mosque near ground zero. 9/11 was a political attack, not religious. the end.
    Yeah but they just use the gullible insecure religious folks to futher their agenda. :|

    Thus the urgent need to call out all religions for what they are. Yes those munipulatos will find another way to perpetrate the hate but wouldn't be great. ;)
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • WildsWilds Posts: 4,329
    unsung wrote:
    Ron Paul is REAL change.

    Ron Paul 2012!

    +1
  • I disagree with him in that "This is all about hate and Islamaphobia"...And man do I hate "Islamaphobia" and I can see becoming a very overused term, like a few others we have. Playing the Islamaphobia card. ;)

    Anyhow, I believe he is mostly right, so maybe I'm nitpicking. I do believe that it has a lot to do with an anti-lslam movement and some politicians are tapping into that for their personal gain. That said, I don't believe there would be this kind of uproar for a new mosque being built somewhere else, so it can't all just be "Islamaphobia".

    Once again though, those that are truly 100% anti-Islam and all those other idiots crying "Islamaphobia" for most everything are the real problem because they keep us from having an important discussion in a rational manner.

    Do they have a right to build it? Absolutely.

    Should they build it there? That's a good discussion just to understand the motives of all involved.

    So an arsonist burning down a mosque in Tennessee that people have been protesting against the building of doesn't amount to an uproar to you? What about the people in Wisconsin and California who are protesting against mosques being built in their communities?

    I'm curious as to why so many people are questioning the Cordoba Initiative's "motives" - as if they're only building a mosque near Ground Zero to rub 9/11 into people's faces. There are a lot of people who think the Imam is some sinister bad guy who is building a mosque from scratch to preach intolerance... and they're completely oblivious to the fact that all he's doing is taking a building with a Muslim prayer room already in it and turning it into a community center that will CONTINUE to have a Muslim prayer room in it (along with newly-built prayer rooms for Christians and Jews).
    And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    If we could get rid of religion and liberals the world would be a much better place.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    unsung wrote:
    If we could get rid of religion and liberals the world would be a much better place.
    ...
    But... if that was true... if there was no religion... there would not be a Christianity... and without a Christianity... there would not be Christian Values. Without Christian Values... there would be no Conservatives.
    So... who would be left?
    Answer: Aetheists.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
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  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    And when you got rid of religion, conservatives would disappear... so what does that leave you with...

    Conservatives in America are a funny group, they're all for smaller government and hands off policy, except for when it something they like and want, then they jam it down the throats of everyone in the world.
    unsung wrote:
    If we could get rid of religion and liberals the world would be a much better place.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Isn't almost every war started because of religion? Damn near.

    I'm all for getting rid of conservatives too, except those that will obey the Constitution. I think the line between liberals and conservatives becomes almost non-existant if religion is out of the mix.
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    The Constitution is a great idea on paper, but in reality and practice it is merely an elastic point of reference to use as a guise or agenda. Whether it was economic, political or religious, the Constitution is nothing more than a reference point or scape-goat in order to get across whatever "your view" on an issue or how society should be. There's no such thing as "obey the constitution" because in most instances, it is not discussed, written or commented upon because we're referring to a document written 200+ yrs ago and very little still applies to every day life now. A few basic things which could also be taken out of context due to the time it was written, but other than that, the document represents now what we want it too, not some grand intention or guide.
    unsung wrote:
    Isn't almost every war started because of religion? Damn near.

    I'm all for getting rid of conservatives too, except those that will obey the Constitution. I think the line between liberals and conservatives becomes almost non-existant if religion is out of the mix.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    This nation is based upon the Constitution. I think you need to value it a bit more.
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Value it more?? Do me a favor and look through our history and show me where we have done so. Or how about we mention how important it is but we left our minorities right to freedom and voting (women too)? I took a class in college all about Constitutional law and one of the major themes of it was how the document was used as a reference point to pass through laws and agendas which had zero to do with anything remotely to with it (whether it was the interstate commerce act or the elastic clause). No one person's idea of what the Constitution actually means in practice is the same as another, same as many other historical documents (religious or political). You can believe it to enforce it to the exact word, or as a loose meaning and representation of it. By the way, if you or anyone else is such a valued Constitutionalist, do me a favor and break up our nation bank or lobbying or the million other things we've created and had in our system (corrupted or not), which have been in practice for a long, long time and have zero reference point in our Constitution. When we do that, I'll be more than happy to "value" the Constitution.
    unsung wrote:
    This nation is based upon the Constitution. I think you need to value it a bit more.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,158
    metsfan wrote:
    _outlaw wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    The attack was part of a fatwā. To say the attacks were not tied to religion is absurd.
    Lol! Do you even know what a fatwa is?

    i would guess no lol
    I'm glad I could amuse you.

    A fatwā (Arabic: فتوى‎; plural fatāwā Arabic: فتاوى‎) in the Islamic faith is a religious opinion concerning Islamic law issued by an Islamic scholar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatw%C4%81

    I'm aware that the fuckheads that planned the attacks and hi-jacked the plane are fanatics, but to say religion was not involved is absurd.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    unsung wrote:
    Isn't almost every war started because of religion? Damn near.
    nope. every war is started mainly due to a combination of politics and economics, sometimes social factors as well. sometimes religion can fall into the social issue, but it is not a major force for war -- nationalism is much larger, for example.
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