Mosque-Issippi Burning..

TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
edited August 2010 in A Moving Train
Hate breeds violence. Marginalizing an entire population, an entire religion, is not good for our country. It endangers Muslims within America, and provokes animosity toward America around the world.

here's what Amy Goodman has to say. love this lady.

Mosque-Issippi Burning

Posted on Aug 17, 2010
By Amy Goodman


Salman Hamdani died on Sept. 11, 2001. The 23-year-old research assistant at Rockefeller University had a degree in biochemistry. He was also a trained emergency medical technician and a cadet with the New York Police Department. But he never made it to work that day. Hamdani, a Muslim-American, was among that day’s first responders. He raced to Ground Zero to save others. His selfless act cost him his life.

Hamdani was later praised by President George W. Bush as a hero and mentioned by name in the USA Patriot Act. But that was not how he was portrayed in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. In October, his parents went to Mecca to pray for their son. While they were away, the New York Post and other media outlets portrayed Hamdani as a possible terrorist on the run. “MISSING—OR HIDING? MYSTERY OF THE NYPD CADET FROM PAKISTAN” screamed the Post headline. The sensational article noted that someone fitting Hamdani’s description had been seen near the Midtown Tunnel a full month after 9/11. His family was interrogated. Hamdani’s Internet use and politics were investigated.

His parents, Talat and Saleem Hamdani, had been frantically searching the hospitals, the lists of the dead and the injured. “There were patients who had lost their memory,” his mother, Talat, said. “We hoped he would be one of them, we would be able to identify him.”

The ominous reports on Hamdani were typical of the increasing, overt bigotry against Arab-Americans, Muslim-Americans and people of South Asian heritage. Talat, who worked as a teacher, told me how children in her extended family had to Anglicize their names to avoid discrimination:

“They were in second grade ... Armeen became Amy, and one became Mickey and the other one became Mikey and the fourth one became Adam. And we asked them, ‘Why did you change your names?’ And they said ‘because we don’t want to be called terrorists in the school.’ “

On March 20, 2002, the Hamdanis received word that Salman’s DNA had been found at Ground Zero, and thus he was officially a victim of the attacks. At his funeral, held at the Islamic Community Center at East 96th St. in Manhattan, Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly and Rep. Gary Ackerman all spoke.

Which brings us to the controversy around the proposed Islamic community center, slated to be built at 51 Park Place in lower Manhattan. The facility is not, for the record, a mosque. And it is not at Ground Zero (it’s two blocks away). The Cordoba Initiative, the nonprofit group spearheading the project, describes it as a “community center, much like the YMCA or the Jewish Community Center ... where people from any faith are allowed to use the facilities. Beyond having a gym, the Cordoba House will house a pool, restaurant, 500-person auditorium, 9/11 memorial, multifaith chapel, office and conference space, and prayer space.”

Opposition to the center started among fringe, right-wing blogs, and has since been swept into the mainstream. While the hole at Ground Zero has yet to be filled, as billionaire developers bicker over the plans, the news hole that August brings has been readily filled with the “Ground Zero Mosque” controversy.

There is another hole that needs to be filled, namely, the absence of people in the U.S. in leadership positions in every walk of life, of every political stripe, speaking out for freedom of religion and against racism. As the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. once said, “In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

Does anyone seriously say that there shouldn’t be a Christian church near the site of the Oklahoma City bombing, just because Timothy McVeigh was a Christian?

People who are against hate are not a fringe minority, not even a silent majority, but are a silenced majority. They are silenced by the chattering classes, who are driving this debate throughout the media.

Hate breeds violence. Marginalizing an entire population, an entire religion, is not good for our country. It endangers Muslims within America, and provokes animosity toward America around the world.

When I asked Daisy Khan, executive director of the American Society for Muslim Advancement, which is a partner in the proposed community center, if she feared for herself, for her children or for Muslims in New York, she replied, “I’m afraid for my country.”

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/mos ... _20100817/
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    i know a sikh living in NY City ... after september 11th ... no more wearing of his turban ... he just feared for his safety ... almost 10 years later and he still says he can't put it on ...
  • mysticweedmysticweed Posts: 3,710
    Although I have all but excommunicated myself from the southern baptist church in which I was raised, I will go out on a limb and say the McVeigh was not a Christian, not a practicing one anyway.
    The property sited for the center was actually a burlington coat factory or factory warehouse two blocks from ground zero. Some far right nut jobs started beating their war drums, making something out of nothing.
    To live in a country that claims freedom of religion, there are too many that refuse to allow just that.
    fuck 'em if they can't take a joke

    "what a long, strange trip it's been"
  • MotoDCMotoDC Posts: 947
    lettinggo wrote:
    Although I have all but excommunicated myself from the southern baptist church in which I was raised, I will go out on a limb and say the McVeigh was not a Christian, not a practicing one anyway.
    I don't understand the McVeigh argument. Didn't he bomb the building in OK City b/c he was an anti-gov't nut with neo-nazi tendencies? He didn't drive his fertilizer bomb into the building believing that he was doing the work of Christ. The same can't be said for the people who attacked WTC and the Pentagon -- they were doing so in the name of their religion. Was it misguided and a misinterpretation of the Koran? I'm told that's the case -- I'm hardly a scholar of the Koran (understatement) -- and I'm willing to believe it. But that's all irrelevant to my only point here, namely, that the parallels people keep trying to find between McVeigh and this Mosque/Community Center/Dharma Initiative (haha) thing aren't really there.
  • mysticweedmysticweed Posts: 3,710
    MotoDC wrote:
    lettinggo wrote:
    Although I have all but excommunicated myself from the southern baptist church in which I was raised, I will go out on a limb and say the McVeigh was not a Christian, not a practicing one anyway.
    I don't understand the McVeigh argument. Didn't he bomb the building in OK City b/c he was an anti-gov't nut with neo-nazi tendencies? He didn't drive his fertilizer bomb into the building believing that he was doing the work of Christ. The same can't be said for the people who attacked WTC and the Pentagon -- they were doing so in the name of their religion. Was it misguided and a misinterpretation of the Koran? I'm told that's the case -- I'm hardly a scholar of the Koran (understatement) -- and I'm willing to believe it. But that's all irrelevant to my only point here, namely, that the parallels people keep trying to find between McVeigh and this Mosque/Community Center/Dharma Initiative (haha) thing aren't really there.

    Dude, I didn't make the comparison. I was only responding to it. You only quoted one line of my response and your response to me does not make sense to me.
    afw
    peace
    fuck 'em if they can't take a joke

    "what a long, strange trip it's been"
  • puremagicpuremagic Posts: 1,907
    MotoDC wrote:
    lettinggo wrote:
    Although I have all but excommunicated myself from the southern baptist church in which I was raised, I will go out on a limb and say the McVeigh was not a Christian, not a practicing one anyway.
    I don't understand the McVeigh argument. Didn't he bomb the building in OK City b/c he was an anti-gov't nut with neo-nazi tendencies? He didn't drive his fertilizer bomb into the building believing that he was doing the work of Christ. The same can't be said for the people who attacked WTC and the Pentagon -- they were doing so in the name of their religion. Was it misguided and a misinterpretation of the Koran? I'm told that's the case -- I'm hardly a scholar of the Koran (understatement) -- and I'm willing to believe it. But that's all irrelevant to my only point here, namely, that the parallels people keep trying to find between McVeigh and this Mosque/Community Center/Dharma Initiative (haha) thing aren't really there.


    Here’s a thought, our soldiers pray before going out, does that make their actions an inspiration of the Bible even though the people dying don’t wear uniforms?

    McVeigh’s act was that of a terrorist. His motivation was the destruction of the Waco cult compound, which he considered a religious facility. The fact that he parked his bomb (coward) instead of dying with his bomb doesn’t make him or his actions any less than those terrorists who flew their planes into the WTC. Since all the terrorists died on 9/11, we don’t know what their real inspiration was, especially as most of them came from our ally nation of Saudi Arabia.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • MotoDCMotoDC Posts: 947
    puremagic wrote:
    Here’s a thought, our soldiers pray before going out, does that make their actions an inspiration of the Bible even though the people dying don’t wear uniforms?
    Nope. Unless a particular soldier thinks he's doing Jesus's work by wiping out the "heathens". Then yes, his motivations are in line with that of the Muslim terrorists. Having a particular characteristic and then going out and committing an act, whatever it is, doesn't necessarily mean that that particular characteristic was the casual factor or motivator.
    puremagic wrote:
    McVeigh’s act was that of a terrorist. His motivation was the destruction of the Waco cult compound, which he considered a religious facility. The fact that he parked his bomb (coward) instead of dying with his bomb doesn’t make him or his actions any less than those terrorists who flew their planes into the WTC. Since all the terrorists died on 9/11, we don’t know what their real inspiration was, especially as most of them came from our ally nation of Saudi Arabia.
    This is a bit more relevant. McVeigh was definitely a terrorist; I thought I characterized him as such in my first post, but looking back I can see I did not make that clear. However, the couple of articles I've read on him indicated his motivations were anti-establishment and not a direct protest to the Waco incident, though he did time his attack on the anniversary of Waco. Even if it was, Branch Davidians were a cult, not Christian.
  • BamaPJFanBamaPJFan Posts: 410
    edited August 2010
    McVeigh wasn't a Christian. He was a professed atheist.

    A better analogy for this multi-purpose mosque in Manhattan might be thinking that a memorial should be placed at Pearl Harbor to honor the Japanese military.

    If the proponents of the mosque were really about healing and showing compassion toward the victims of 9/11, then they wouldn't have a problem in finding a more appropriate site for the facility. In the end, it's going to be hard to find a construction company (and construction workers) that's willing to build the mosque (if the location isn't changed).
    Post edited by BamaPJFan on
    United Center (Chicago): 8/24/09
    Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09


  • MotoDCMotoDC Posts: 947
    lettinggo wrote:
    Dude, I didn't make the comparison. I was only responding to it. You only quoted one line of my response and your response to me does not make sense to me.
    afw
    peace
    Yeah, sorry, I just used your one-liner as a segue into a related conversation about the parallels (or lack thereof) between McVeigh and the 9/11 attackers. Nevertheless, I think my response does make sense in general; whether you agree with it is another matter.

    What's "afw"?
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    MotoDC wrote:
    Even if it was, Branch Davidians were a cult, not Christian.

    what is the difference? koresh presched of jesus just like christian churches do. why was he a cult leader and fred phelps is just a pastor?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • BamaPJFanBamaPJFan Posts: 410
    MotoDC wrote:
    Even if it was, Branch Davidians were a cult, not Christian.

    what is the difference? koresh presched of jesus just like christian churches do. why was he a cult leader and fred phelps is just a pastor?

    This Fred Phelps?

    http://splcenter.org/get-informed/intel ... red-phelps
    United Center (Chicago): 8/24/09
    Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09


  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    MotoDC wrote:
    lettinggo wrote:
    Although I have all but excommunicated myself from the southern baptist church in which I was raised, I will go out on a limb and say the McVeigh was not a Christian, not a practicing one anyway.
    I don't understand the McVeigh argument. Didn't he bomb the building in OK City b/c he was an anti-gov't nut with neo-nazi tendencies? He didn't drive his fertilizer bomb into the building believing that he was doing the work of Christ. The same can't be said for the people who attacked WTC and the Pentagon -- they were doing so in the name of their religion. Was it misguided and a misinterpretation of the Koran? I'm told that's the case -- I'm hardly a scholar of the Koran (understatement) -- and I'm willing to believe it. But that's all irrelevant to my only point here, namely, that the parallels people keep trying to find between McVeigh and this Mosque/Community Center/Dharma Initiative (haha) thing aren't really there.
    this is not true. there has already been an ample amount of studies done regarding the motives of the 9/11 terrorists, and the overwhelming amount of evidence shows that the attacks were mostly done for political reasons. The religious factor only comes into play to reinforce their beliefs and somewhat justify their actions through the aspect of 'reward', 'forgiveness', etc, to the emotional side. however their rational side (and I am by no means calling their action 'rational') which prompted the act to begin with was more because of them being upset with the unconditional support for Israel the US has been giving (the Palestinians being mostly Muslim makes it a big 'Muslim issue'), upset about the US's support for authoritarian regimes in the Muslim world, etc etc. There are far more political reasons for them to be angry about the US than religious ones. If it were for a religious reason, then why did they only attack the US on 9/11? what about the other non-Muslim countries in the world? it's illogical to assume otherwise.

    in the same manner, other non-Muslim religious terrorists have different motives, whether it be political or otherwise, for their actions. of course religion plays a role but this whole "they attacked us because they want to impose shariah/don't approve of our freedom, etc" is all bullshit.
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    BamaPJFan wrote:
    A better analogy for this multi-purpose mosque in Manhattan might be thinking that a memorial should be placed at Pearl Harbor to honor the Japanese military.
    Wtf? you're fucking terrible with analogies. is the entire Muslim population one big military for Al Qaeda to you or what?
  • BamaPJFanBamaPJFan Posts: 410
    _outlaw wrote:
    BamaPJFan wrote:
    A better analogy for this multi-purpose mosque in Manhattan might be thinking that a memorial should be placed at Pearl Harbor to honor the Japanese military.
    Wtf? you're fucking terrible with analogies. is the entire Muslim population one big military for Al Qaeda to you or what?

    A better way to put it might be that Al Qaeda represents a significant population of Muslims who follow various radical teachings/tenets of Islam.

    outlaw: How long have you been in bed with radical Islam (or at the very least sympathetic toward radical Islam)? You are the most far-left, idealogue who I've come across on an internet message board in a long time. You are tenacious though; I give you that much credit. Do you write for the Huffington Post? Heck, I work for what is considered a left-leaning civil rights organization (albeit I'm not a liberal, but rather a radical independent). You take the cake, son.
    United Center (Chicago): 8/24/09
    Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09


  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    BamaPJFan wrote:
    _outlaw wrote:
    BamaPJFan wrote:
    A better analogy for this multi-purpose mosque in Manhattan might be thinking that a memorial should be placed at Pearl Harbor to honor the Japanese military.
    Wtf? you're fucking terrible with analogies. is the entire Muslim population one big military for Al Qaeda to you or what?

    A better way to put it might be that Al Qaeda represents a significant population of Muslims who follow various radical teachings/tenets of Islam.

    outlaw: How long have you been in bed with radical Islam (or at the very least sympathetic toward radical Islam)? You are the most far-left, idealogue who I've come across on an internet message board in a long time. You are tenacious though; I give you that much credit. Do you write for the Huffington Post? Heck, I work for what is considered a left-leaning civil rights organization (albeit I'm not a liberal, but rather a radical independent). You take the cake, son.



    he just said you are terrible at analogies, which is true. to attack his character and make sweeping generalizations about a religion based on the actions of a few radicals says more about your beliefs, and maybe a little about the mentality gripping america. something is wrong with that line of thinking, i hope you can see that.





    back to the thread......great article TA. i love amy goodman.



    Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. once said, “In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    BamaPJFan wrote:
    McVeigh wasn't a Christian. He was a professed atheist.

    A better analogy for this multi-purpose mosque in Manhattan might be thinking that a memorial should be placed at Pearl Harbor to honor the Japanese military.

    If the proponents of the mosque were really about healing and showing compassion toward the victims of 9/11, then they wouldn't have a problem in finding a more appropriate site for the facility. In the end, it's going to be hard to find a construction company (and construction workers) that's willing to build the mosque (if the location isn't changed).
    ...
    Your 'better' analogy would fit... if it were Al Qaeda sponsoring a community center. Al Qaeda was responsible for the attack, not the religion of Islam. The Japanese Imperial Navy was responsible for the Pearl Harbor attack, not the entire Buddhist Religion.
    In order for your analogy to fit... if you are opposed to a Muslim Center with a prayer center near the site of the World Trade Centers... then, you are opposed to a Buddhist prayer center near Pearl Harbor.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Commy wrote:
    BamaPJFan wrote:
    A better way to put it might be that Al Qaeda represents a significant population of Muslims who follow various radical teachings/tenets of Islam.

    outlaw: How long have you been in bed with radical Islam (or at the very least sympathetic toward radical Islam)? You are the most far-left, idealogue who I've come across on an internet message board in a long time. You are tenacious though; I give you that much credit. Do you write for the Huffington Post? Heck, I work for what is considered a left-leaning civil rights organization (albeit I'm not a liberal, but rather a radical independent). You take the cake, son.



    he just said you are terrible at analogies, which is true. to attack his character and make sweeping generalizations about a religion based on the actions of a few radicals says more about your beliefs, and maybe a little about the mentality gripping america. something is wrong with that line of thinking, i hope you can see that.





    back to the thread......great article TA. i love amy goodman.



    Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. once said, “In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”
    that's right Commy.

    and what happened to Salman Hamdani is the same thing that is happening to many American Muslims and Arabs today. persecuted by biggots for no reason except that they can.

    and those that remain silent of the disgusting treatment of these people are just as guilty as the ones spewing their hate.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Commy wrote:
    BamaPJFan wrote:
    A better way to put it might be that Al Qaeda represents a significant population of Muslims who follow various radical teachings/tenets of Islam.

    outlaw: How long have you been in bed with radical Islam (or at the very least sympathetic toward radical Islam)? You are the most far-left, idealogue who I've come across on an internet message board in a long time. You are tenacious though; I give you that much credit. Do you write for the Huffington Post? Heck, I work for what is considered a left-leaning civil rights organization (albeit I'm not a liberal, but rather a radical independent). You take the cake, son.



    he just said you are terrible at analogies, which is true. to attack his character and make sweeping generalizations about a religion based on the actions of a few radicals says more about your beliefs, and maybe a little about the mentality gripping america. something is wrong with that line of thinking, i hope you can see that.





    back to the thread......great article TA. i love amy goodman.



    Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. once said, “In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”
    that's right Commy.

    and what happened to Salman Hamdani is the same thing that is happening to many American Muslims and Arabs today. persecuted by biggots for no reason except that they can.

    and those that remain silent of the disgusting treatment of these people are just as guilty as the ones spewing their hate.
    absolutely.



    meanwhile the opposition party (the democrats) are further dividing lines and making it worse.



    they need to speak out for freedom of religion, its that fucking simple. don't let a few radical extremists cloud your view of an entire religion. be better than that. speak out for what America represents, not what the media has decided it represents....speak out for freedom of religion, one of the principles that founded this country.



    the tea partyers would do well to defend this cultural center.......its is written in the constitution that they have the right to build it.
  • BamaPJFanBamaPJFan Posts: 410
    Cosmo wrote:
    BamaPJFan wrote:
    McVeigh wasn't a Christian. He was a professed atheist.

    A better analogy for this multi-purpose mosque in Manhattan might be thinking that a memorial should be placed at Pearl Harbor to honor the Japanese military.

    If the proponents of the mosque were really about healing and showing compassion toward the victims of 9/11, then they wouldn't have a problem in finding a more appropriate site for the facility. In the end, it's going to be hard to find a construction company (and construction workers) that's willing to build the mosque (if the location isn't changed).
    ...
    Your 'better' analogy would fit... if it were Al Qaeda sponsoring a community center. Al Qaeda was responsible for the attack, not the religion of Islam. The Japanese Imperial Navy was responsible for the Pearl Harbor attack, not the entire Buddhist Religion.
    In order for your analogy to fit... if you are opposed to a Muslim Center with a prayer center near the site of the World Trade Centers... then, you are opposed to a Buddhist prayer center near Pearl Harbor.


    I never said anything about the Buddhist religion; you're still trying to cause unnecessary confusion over this issue but I see you for what you are. The Buddhist philosophy/religion obviously had nothing to do with the Pearl Harbor attack (who ever said that it did?). To be applicable, an analogy concerning the Ground Zero mosque does not have to have anything to do with religion. I stick by my Japanese military memorial at Pearl Harbor analogy. It makes perfect sense in that it would be very hurtful to the United States and the U.S. military families who were affected if the Japense wanted to memorialize the Japenese attackers at Pearl Harbor. You and your ilk can continue to be on the wrong side of this issue and continue to criticize those with a mainstream, sensible viewpoint. I predict that there will be a compromise and this facility will be built somewhere else.
    United Center (Chicago): 8/24/09
    Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09


  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    BamaPJFan wrote:
    _outlaw wrote:
    BamaPJFan wrote:
    A better analogy for this multi-purpose mosque in Manhattan might be thinking that a memorial should be placed at Pearl Harbor to honor the Japanese military.
    Wtf? you're fucking terrible with analogies. is the entire Muslim population one big military for Al Qaeda to you or what?

    A better way to put it might be that Al Qaeda represents a significant population of Muslims who follow various radical teachings/tenets of Islam.
    is that so? How significant? Percentage-wise, how many of the 1.4 billion worldwide Muslims does Al Qaeda represent? and where do the few million American-Muslims fit in this percentage? and what legitimate source do you base this on? do you even know what "Radical Islam" is?
    outlaw: How long have you been in bed with radical Islam (or at the very least sympathetic toward radical Islam)? You are the most far-left, idealogue who I've come across on an internet message board in a long time. You are tenacious though; I give you that much credit. Do you write for the Huffington Post? Heck, I work for what is considered a left-leaning civil rights organization (albeit I'm not a liberal, but rather a radical independent). You take the cake, son.
    you know even less about me than you do about Islam. You are an embarrassment and I'd actually take offense to what you said if I didn't pity you for your ignorance so much.
  • BamaPJFanBamaPJFan Posts: 410
    outlaw: I'm pretty sure that if a Rasmussen poll were conducted on your viewpoint as opposed to my viewpoint, I'd have the most support by far. ;) I'm certainly not embarrassed to believe what I believe. I'm not sure to whom or to what you're referring when you call me an "embarrassment"? Am I an embarrassment to Osama bin Laden? To Muhammad Atta? Perhaps. On the other hand, am I an embarrassment to my friend who works as a firefighter for Engine Co. 23 in Manhattan who lost crew members on 9/11? Am I an embarrassment to the United States? Probably not.

    Bottomline - if you choose to take the unpopular side and continue to vehemently defend it (I've been there before on various issues as well), then you have my utmost respect.
    United Center (Chicago): 8/24/09
    Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09


  • BamaPJFan wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    BamaPJFan wrote:
    McVeigh wasn't a Christian. He was a professed atheist.

    A better analogy for this multi-purpose mosque in Manhattan might be thinking that a memorial should be placed at Pearl Harbor to honor the Japanese military.

    If the proponents of the mosque were really about healing and showing compassion toward the victims of 9/11, then they wouldn't have a problem in finding a more appropriate site for the facility. In the end, it's going to be hard to find a construction company (and construction workers) that's willing to build the mosque (if the location isn't changed).
    ...
    Your 'better' analogy would fit... if it were Al Qaeda sponsoring a community center. Al Qaeda was responsible for the attack, not the religion of Islam. The Japanese Imperial Navy was responsible for the Pearl Harbor attack, not the entire Buddhist Religion.
    In order for your analogy to fit... if you are opposed to a Muslim Center with a prayer center near the site of the World Trade Centers... then, you are opposed to a Buddhist prayer center near Pearl Harbor.


    I never said anything about the Buddhist religion; you're still trying to cause unnecessary confusion over this issue but I see you for what you are. The Buddhist philosophy/religion obviously had nothing to do with the Pearl Harbor attack (who ever said that it did?). To be applicable, an analogy concerning the Ground Zero mosque does not have to have anything to do with religion. I stick by my Japanese military memorial at Pearl Harbor analogy. It makes perfect sense in that it would be very hurtful to the United States and the U.S. military families who were affected if the Japense wanted to memorialize the Japenese attackers at Pearl Harbor. You and your ilk can continue to be on the wrong side of this issue and continue to criticize those with a mainstream, sensible viewpoint. I predict that there will be a compromise and this facility will be built somewhere else.

    Wow. Way to completely miss the point. You're the one attaching Islam to those behind 9/11. Buddhism could just as well be attached to the Japanese military by that logic. How is that unclear to you?

    Regardless of how confused you may be, the fact is that to prevent this so called mosque being built would be unconstitutional... or as you may know it "letting the terrorists win". I love how you claim to have a sensible viewpoint. What is so sacred about a fucking coat factory anyway? People like you embarass me as an American.
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/sets/72157600802942672/">My Pearl Jam Photos</a>

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  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    Now I know why PJ doesn't tour the south...
  • anti islam rally at ground zero.

    disgusting.

    this behaviour is appalling. so uninformed, so full of hate, so fucked up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwaNRWMN-F4
  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    anti islam rally at ground zero.

    disgusting.

    this behaviour is appalling. so uninformed, so full of hate, so fucked up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwaNRWMN-F4
    Holy shit.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • aren't they disgusting.

    uneducated, ignorant, savages.
  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    They hate us because of our freedom!!!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    edited August 2010
    BamaPJFan wrote:
    I never said anything about the Buddhist religion; you're still trying to cause unnecessary confusion over this issue but I see you for what you are. The Buddhist philosophy/religion obviously had nothing to do with the Pearl Harbor attack (who ever said that it did?). To be applicable, an analogy concerning the Ground Zero mosque does not have to have anything to do with religion. I stick by my Japanese military memorial at Pearl Harbor analogy. It makes perfect sense in that it would be very hurtful to the United States and the U.S. military families who were affected if the Japense wanted to memorialize the Japenese attackers at Pearl Harbor. You and your ilk can continue to be on the wrong side of this issue and continue to criticize those with a mainstream, sensible viewpoint. I predict that there will be a compromise and this facility will be built somewhere else.
    ...
    Let me try to put your logic as simply as possible...
    You say, placing a Mosque near the place where the World Trade Centers once stood... would be the same as the Japanese military put a monument near Pearl Harbor.
    Your perception is:
    Mosque = Memorial to Mohammed Atta and crew
    Islam = Japanese Military pilots or
    Islamic Mosque = Japanese Military memorial monument
    ...
    I am pointing out that your basic premise is incorrect.
    Fact is:
    Al Qaeda Mosque = Japanese Military memorial monument
    based upon the fact that Al Qaeda carried out the September 11, 2001 attack and the Japanese Imperial Navy carried out the attack on Pearl Harbor.
    ...
    So, in order for your analogy to fit, you would need to equate the Islamic Religion with the perdominant religion of Japan, Buddhism... because religion equals Religion... not Religion equal Navy.
    ...
    So, we would agree that if Al Qaeda were putting a monument that supports the ideology of Al Qaeda would not be right... and i would oppose that.
    Post edited by Cosmo on
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  • BamaPJFan wrote:
    A better analogy for this multi-purpose mosque in Manhattan might be thinking that a memorial should be placed at Pearl Harbor to honor the Japanese military.


    Did I miss the part where the world trade center had become an American military base?

    The two are not equivalent. Pearl Harbor was one military attacking another. 9/11 was civilians being attacked not by a military, but by a small group of people who were (by comparison to a major, organized military) working alone.
    "Bombs dropping down. Please forgive our hometown"
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    BamaPJFan wrote:
    A better analogy for this multi-purpose mosque in Manhattan might be thinking that a memorial should be placed at Pearl Harbor to honor the Japanese military.


    Did I miss the part where the world trade center had become an American military base?

    The two are not equivalent. Pearl Harbor was one military attacking another. 9/11 was civilians being attacked not by a military, but by a small group of people who were (by comparison to a major, organized military) working alone.

    oh youre forgetting the part where afghanistan provided sanctuary for al qaeda... thats why we invaded their country. so not quite so alone. ;)
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  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    BamaPJFan wrote:
    outlaw: I'm pretty sure that if a Rasmussen poll were conducted on your viewpoint as opposed to my viewpoint, I'd have the most support by far. ;)
    Polls were conducted some decades ago, and those who were in favor of segregation had the most support. Does that make it right? Hiding behind the majority doesn't make you smart, just a pussy. And I see how you still refused to answer how significant of the Muslim population Al Qaeda represents? Not surprising, it was extremely evident that you didn't have a clue what you were saying.
    BamaPJFan wrote:
    I'm certainly not embarrassed to believe what I believe. I'm not sure to whom or to what you're referring when you call me an "embarrassment"?
    ... :
    People like you embarass me as an American.
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