Drum microphones and settings on a mixing board

CJMST3K

I got the Samson 8 Kit set of microphones to hook into a Behringer X2442USB mixing board, just for use as a monitor. The kick sound wasn't the best with the Samson Q Kick mic, so I researched and found that Karrie Keys who handles PJ's mics said the loves the Audix D6 kick mic. She wrote a quick review for the company and say something about how it's ready to go out of the box with no EQ or anything. ...so I bought a D6 and plugged it into the board.... and can't seem to get a great sound that she's talking about. I tried inside the kick drum 10" away from the beater, and then outside the kick drum by 3" in front of the hole. Neither seems to be working.

...anyway, anyone know good placement and good dialing for this particular kickdrum microphone? I tried youtube tricks with this mic too and it didn't seem to work either.

I'll probably put other questions in here about drum micing but we'll start off with this one.

2-feign-reluctance

How much adjusting have you done on the EQ for the kick drum? Is it just low in the mix?

CJMST3K

2-feign-reluctance wrote:

How much adjusting have you done on the EQ for the kick drum? Is it just low in the mix?

When I was using the Samson Q Kick, it sounded just not as present.

I got a new bass drum head from Evans which has a dampening foam ring on the edge of the head so I no longer need the pillow, and that helped a lot with the Q Kick mic. ...and with the Samson I had the pots for the high and low frequency turned pretty far... and it sounded alright, but I really wanted a good tight and punchy sound.

Now with the Audix D6 which is an upgrade from a beginner mic (samson) to a professional mic, it just doesn't sound as good. I put the EQ flat (12 o'clock) for it on the suggestion of Karrie Keys' comments about the Audix D6, but that didn't do it. So now it's back to high on bass and high on treble, and the mid is somewhere in there either at 12 o'clock or a little to the right.

Not very punchy and a bit muddy. This board is new and has a built-in compression knob for each channel, and I've been playing with that, but mostly keeping it at high compression... though from some YouTube users, their Audix drum mics in general don't use compression for their videos.

...there's the long answer.

mccreadyisgod

I usually put a D6 right in the port on the front head, with the head of the mic about 1-2" inside the hole, pointed straight in. You can also try my second-favorite, which is in the center of the front head, angled up at a 45* angle, as close to the head as possible without the head hitting the mic when it flexes.

On the EQ, you need to start with the low and hi set flat, and get rid of pretty much all the mids. If the mid has a sweepable frequency, I'd set it around 400-500 Hz. If the mid is fixed, especially at a higher frequency (800 Hz to 1 kHz) then you're sorta screwed. You need to get rid of the lower midrange. With EQ, you're better off subtracting the bad frequencies first, before using any boosted EQ, because the curcuits in analog mixers will cause distortion of the signal when you boost EQ frequencies. Subtractive EQ doesn't cause these distortions to the signal.

CJMST3K

mccreadyisgod wrote:

I usually put a D6 right in the port on the front head, with the head of the mic about 1-2" inside the hole, pointed straight in. You can also try my second-favorite, which is in the center of the front head, angled up at a 45* angle, as close to the head as possible without the head hitting the mic when it flexes.

On the EQ, you need to start with the low and hi set flat, and get rid of pretty much all the mids. If the mid has a sweepable frequency, I'd set it around 400-500 Hz. If the mid is fixed, especially at a higher frequency (800 Hz to 1 kHz) then you're sorta screwed. You need to get rid of the lower midrange. With EQ, you're better off subtracting the bad frequencies first, before using any boosted EQ, because the curcuits in analog mixers will cause distortion of the signal when you boost EQ frequencies. Subtractive EQ doesn't cause these distortions to the signal.

Cool - will have to try this.

I believe my mid is sweepable. Just got the board, but seems the two mid pots make one of them sweep the frequency. What "clock" position would you recommend for the two mids, assuming one is sweepable?

mccreadyisgod

CJMST3K wrote:

Cool - will have to try this.

I believe my mid is sweepable. Just got the board, but seems the two mid pots make one of them sweep the frequency. What "clock" position would you recommend for the two mids, assuming one is sweepable?

Whatever "clock" position is around 400 to 500 Hz...

Actually, I found a pic of the mixer on the website. First, make sure the low cut is off. On the mid, turn the level all the way down, and put the frequency knob around 10 o'clock (you'll have to play around to find the "sweet spot"). You can bump the low eq a couple dB (like to 1 or 2 o'clock) if needed, but keep it minimal. The high frequency, at 12 kHz, won't really give you any "snap" anyways, so you might as well leave that one alone. The high definition point of a kick drum is usually between 2.5 kHz and 6 kHz, depending on the drum, tuning, beater, and how aggressively it's played. If you need more "snap," just angle the mic a little more toward where the beater hits the head.

Your board also has a rudimentary compressor, which can be very handy for kick drum. Dial in a bit of that and see how that sounds. I can't tell you what setting to use, because I'm not familiar with the way that compressor is configured, but I'd probably guess between 10 o'clock and 12 o'clock.

2-feign-reluctance

all very good feedback. some that i can even use.

CJMST3K

Another question - I have some guitars and a bass that I want to direct-input. The instructions said that I should buy a passive DI box when plugging in to make a line-level better or something. I bought the exact brand and model they recommend in the instructions, but the level is SO LOW that I end up jacking the main volume up most of the way, and the rest of the levels I have to turn all the way down. Is this normal? Why would the DI channels be so dramatically lower than the mic-channels, even with a passive DI box?

mccreadyisgod

The levels from a DI should be about the same as a mic, so the problem you're having isn't normal. A DI converts a hi-impedance unbalanced signal from your instruments into a low-impedance, balanced signal just like a mic. There is also a drop in level, but like I said, it should be the same as a mic.

What DI are you using? You're sure it's a passive DI, and not an active DI that would require phantom voltage? Does the DI have a switch between instrument and amp levels? Have you tried different cables on both ends (1/4" input and XLR output)?

CJMST3K

mccreadyisgod wrote:

The levels from a DI should be about the same as a mic, so the problem you're having isn't normal. A DI converts a hi-impedance unbalanced signal from your instruments into a low-impedance, balanced signal just like a mic. There is also a drop in level, but like I said, it should be the same as a mic.

What DI are you using? You're sure it's a passive DI, and not an active DI that would require phantom voltage? Does the DI have a switch between instrument and amp levels? Have you tried different cables on both ends (1/4" input and XLR output)?

I'm using the Behringer DI400P High-Performance Passive Direct Injection Box

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KU ... ss_product

I bought 2 of them, but so far have only opened one, in case I needed to return it, but I bought it on Amazon since no stores had it. The DI400P was the one recommended in the Behringer X2442USB mixer's manual for direct inputs from guitar or bass. I've been using a XLR out from the DI box and have a 1/4" on the other side of that that goes into the board since it's plugging into a channel that only has 1/4" inputs.

Do you think its a problem using the XLR to 1/4" to connect it to the board or something like that?

It does have a switch on the side for GND or LIFT which doesn't seem to make a difference. The sound seems 100% like I'm not using the box at all.

I also tried the parallel 1/4" out, but not difference, and I think that's intended as an out to an amp anyway with no DI benefits.

I'm puzzled. Any ideas?

mccreadyisgod

Okay, this seems like it's pretty simple. Your board is designed for line-level inputs on 1/4" jacks, and for mic-level inputs on XLR jacks. You are plugging a DI, with mic-level output, into your board's line-level input. That's going to cause exactly the problem you are describing. It would be the same if you plugged a mic into the 1/4" input.

The parallel output would be for an amp, or to run effects separately from the dry signal. For instance, you might record bass thru a DI, as well as running into an amp with a mic. So plugging the direct output from the DI into the board is the same as plugging the instrument straight into the board. The Ground switch would come in handy if you were getting some sort of ground loop buzz (usually with something plugged into a power source, like a keyboard), so it wouldn't make much of a difference normally.

Use a regular mic cable with XLR on both ends, and plug into one of your board's mic inputs, everything will be fine. Lemme know.

CJMST3K

great advice mccreadyisgod! switching to xlr/xlr cable fixed it.

thanks!


...but another question. two channels are 1/4" input only (no xlr). and since plugging instruments like guitar or bass wont't be loud enough unless using xlr, and the same for mics, are these two just wasted channels? also, can i condense 2 microphones on the toms to one channel to help conserve space (non-condenser mics)? ...especially if they're gonna be the same volume anyway?

mccreadyisgod

Those inputs are for professional stereo gear, like an outboard reverb/FX unit, a stereo keyboard/synthesizer, or for playback (CD player, iPod, etc). For your applications, they're probably not going to be very useful, but for live sound, they would be crucial.

As for toms, you can combine them, sure. If you are using the EXACT same mic for both toms, then you can use a "Y" cable to combine the signals. Unfortunately, this means your toms will be mono, not stereo. But if that's not a problem for you, go for it. You'll have to rely on mic placement to fine-tune the volumes between the two drums. Bigger toms are usually a tad louder than smaller toms, so put the mic closer on the smaller drums; work in 1/4" increments.

CJMST3K

mccreadyisgod wrote:

Those inputs are for professional stereo gear, like an outboard reverb/FX unit, a stereo keyboard/synthesizer, or for playback (CD player, iPod, etc). For your applications, they're probably not going to be very useful, but for live sound, they would be crucial.

As for toms, you can combine them, sure. If you are using the EXACT same mic for both toms, then you can use a "Y" cable to combine the signals. Unfortunately, this means your toms will be mono, not stereo. But if that's not a problem for you, go for it. You'll have to rely on mic placement to fine-tune the volumes between the two drums. Bigger toms are usually a tad louder than smaller toms, so put the mic closer on the smaller drums; work in 1/4" increments.

Cool - sounds good! ...and when you say toms will be in mono, I assume that means that they'll be heard in both L and R earphones, but will be unable to be panned, correct? ...or does this mean tom1 will be heard in the left, and tom2 will be heard in the right?