There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
finally another shameful chapter of the Bush nightmare has almost come to a close. no weapons of mass destruction, no nuclear arms program and no relationship to al Qaeda.
too many dead to count, billions in money you can never get back gone, but finally they are coming home.
thank you.
many of these soldiers will be re-deployed to afghanistan
many of these soldiers will be re-deployed to afghanistan
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Not sure just throwing a dig at Obama. Stiring it up a little. I am guilty of that :oops:
Skype and Facebook weren't big back then. I know that my brother-in-law is able to communicate to his family (my twin and nieces) through those social media. Also, my co-worker's brother is able to communicate via facebook, and by doing so she knows he's not in danger at that moment. Did you just rely on the telephone or did you have some social media at your disposal?
We had a computer "Cafe" which also had Voip phones that you could purchase minutes off of. The phone were pretty decent went down once in a while. We also used webcams over Yahoo chat. I also mailed letters, as well as wrote emails. I liked the "snail" mail better just felt more personal.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
finally another shameful chapter of the Bush nightmare has almost come to a close. no weapons of mass destruction, no nuclear arms program and no relationship to al Qaeda.
too many dead to count, billions in money you can never get back gone, but finally they are coming home.
thank you.
many of these soldiers will be re-deployed to afghanistan
My co-worker who has a brother in Afghanistan thinks that about 1/3rd of those returning will probably be redeployed - based on the numbers needed, and the numbers already there.
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
Not sure just throwing a dig at Obama. Stiring it up a little. I am guilty of that :oops:
Skype and Facebook weren't big back then. I know that my brother-in-law is able to communicate to his family (my twin and nieces) through those social media. Also, my co-worker's brother is able to communicate via facebook, and by doing so she knows he's not in danger at that moment. Did you just rely on the telephone or did you have some social media at your disposal?
We had a computer "Cafe" which also had Voip phones that you could purchase minutes off of. The phone were pretty decent went down once in a while. We also used webcams over Yahoo chat. I also mailed letters, as well as wrote emails. I liked the "snail" mail better just felt more personal.
I sent my brother-in-law packages of ground coffee, biscotti, and other trader joe's goodies that can last the trip overseas. I still have two more tins of coffee to send to him before he's home. The US mail service has been really good. Probably a week or less to get to him. This thread is inspiring me to get myself in gear and send something to him tomorrow
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
$750 billion spent, over 4000 lives lost, and for what?
I guess we're not counting civilian lives...
we have been debating civilian deaths on here since 2005. i have even presented articles where the death toll was over a million iraqis dead, and the war apologists told me i was being "overdramatic" and that the estimates from the "lancet" and the red cross were "wrong".... so for the sake of not derailing the thread and turning it into an argument about that i left those figures out.
but we have spent $750 billion of our own tax dollars on this, lost over 4000 american lives, and have nothing to show for it. biggest waste in american history.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
First, I’m glad that more troops are coming home safe, and of course, I’m happy to see all of these families reunited…
I can’t help but wonder, watching all of these happy videos….is it still illegal to broadcast flag-draped coffins coming home? Why are we only allowed to feel the happy emotions related to war?
Yes, they’re drawing down…but from what I’ve read, nothing much has changed, other than the number of troops there. Doesn’t that make this just another Dog and Pony show?
ANALYSIS-Will Obama keep U.S. troops in Iraq beyond 2011? Gates leaves door open to post-2011 military presence
Former U.S. general says maybe "thousands" needed
Iraqi commander wants U.S. troops to stay until 2020 http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN17129482
"If a new government is formed there and they want to talk about beyond 2011, we're obviously open to that discussion," - Robert Gates
(you can’t tell me the Iraqi government tells the US military what to do. If the US thinks it’s in their best interest to stay, they will TELL the Iraqi government to request that they stay – same goes with these “support and assist” missions).
Petraeus: We’re Not Leaving Iraq
Pentagon Surprised to Hear Reports that War Ended http://news.antiwar.com/2010/08/19/petr ... ving-iraq/
"Well, first of all we are not leaving. There are 50,000 U.S. troops that are remaining in Iraq albeit in a support role rather than a leading combat role. But that's an enormous capability." Gen. Patraeus
Then there is this overlooked bit of awesomeness: State Dept Confirms Plan to Escalate Security Contractors in Iraq Aims to Double Number of Contractors by October of 2011 http://news.antiwar.com/2010/08/19/stat ... s-in-iraq/
I can’t help but wonder, watching all of these happy videos [it is hard when a loved one is away]….is it still illegal to broadcast flag-draped coffins coming home? Why are we only allowed to feel the happy emotions related to war? [relief is a more appropriate word]
In answer to your question I found this
The White House has lifted a 18-year ban on allowing news orgs to photograph the flag-draped caskets of fallen soldiers as they return to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. The first Bush banned media photography in '91, and Dubya kept the ban firmly in place as the mortality rate grew during the Iraq war. Many say the public deserves to see the images because they help paint a more accurate picture of… Read More http://propertalks.com/2009/02/26/making-the-cost-of-war-hit-home/
Also, if you would like to see videos of funerals for fallen soliders or more images of fallen soldiers' coffins and flags, just google it. There's plenty of material.
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
5,600 dead Americans later - people's sons, daughter, husbands, wives, brothers, sisters - and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis dead. Thanks, George.
if someone can tell me where to find the number of troops from other countries who have died in this mess, i would be interested to know.
It is also going to be interesting to see how this war is viewed 10, 20, 30, years from now.
counting sanctions and the invasion of 91, the United States is responsible for the murder of millions of Iraqis.
Yes millionS. giving history's killers a run for their money, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot, all the really nasty fuckers....the US empire is right up there with em.
5,600 dead Americans later - people's sons, daughter, husbands, wives, brothers, sisters - and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis dead. Thanks, George.
if someone can tell me where to find the number of troops from other countries who have died in this mess, i would be interested to know.
It is also going to be interesting to see how this war is viewed 10, 20, 30, years from now.
counting sanctions and the invasion of 91, the United States is responsible for the murder of millions of Iraqis.
Yes millionS. giving history's killers a run for their money, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot, all the really nasty fuckers....the US empire is right up there with em.
Yes, but they killed 3000 on 911 and supported al qaeda and had wmd's and saddam was an evil doer and.....
In answer to your question I found this
The White House has lifted a 18-year ban on allowing news orgs to photograph the flag-draped caskets of fallen soldiers as they return to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. The first Bush banned media photography in '91, and Dubya kept the ban firmly in place as the mortality rate grew during the Iraq war. Many say the public deserves to see the images because they help paint a more accurate picture of… Read More http://propertalks.com/2009/02/26/making-the-cost-of-war-hit-home/
Also, if you would like to see videos of funerals for fallen soliders or more images of fallen soldiers' coffins and flags, just google it. There's plenty of material.
Please dont make it sound like I want to see this footage to satisfy some morbid curiosity. You know why its important for it to be shown in the mainstream, and the article you linked states why right in the link itself...not showing the heartache of suffering american families is bad, but not showing the suffering inflicted in Iraq is even worse.
Now....no one cares to address any of the other points I made? This war is far from over...Im betting the US will have a permanent presence in Iraq, both militarily, and thru the MASSIVE Taj Mahal of an embassy built there. But hey, there are no "combat" troops left, so all good! (Even tho the remaining 52000 troops have the same gear and capabilities as the combat troops...then there are the private contractors/mercenaries, operating without oversight or culpability...)
Good job (spinning for the coming elections) Obama!
In answer to your question I found this
The White House has lifted a 18-year ban on allowing news orgs to photograph the flag-draped caskets of fallen soldiers as they return to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. The first Bush banned media photography in '91, and Dubya kept the ban firmly in place as the mortality rate grew during the Iraq war. Many say the public deserves to see the images because they help paint a more accurate picture of… Read More http://propertalks.com/2009/02/26/making-the-cost-of-war-hit-home/
Also, if you would like to see videos of funerals for fallen soliders or more images of fallen soldiers' coffins and flags, just google it. There's plenty of material.
Please dont make it sound like I want to see this footage to satisfy some morbid curiosity. You know why its important for it to be shown in the mainstream, and the article you linked states why right in the link itself...not showing the heartache of suffering american families is bad, but not showing the suffering inflicted in Iraq is even worse.
Of course I know this. I'm not emotionally shallow. At the same time I LOVE those happy videos. I wish there were more of them. When my brother-in-law comes home you bet your booties there will be another happy video made. It will include my twin, and their daughters, his parents, his grandparents, his sister, her husband, and his nephew, my 3 other siblings and their spouses, my 4 other nieces and nephew, my parents. We are all going to be relieved when he comes home. Then there is the neighborhood who mow my twin's lawn, help out with the kids, and shovel her driveway because he's gone. They'll have a party as well. Amazing how one man, who in the big picture may just be a census statistic, means so much to so many people. . . and they have all been affected by this one man's deployment.
My, and his, 8 year old niece out-of-the-blue mentioned how it was sad he's so far away. She hardly sees him, and his deployment is significant to her - a girl without her daddy is not something she wants to be. It's not hard to understand why people are happy in those videos. That relief should not be tainted by criticism. I don't think you want to be critical of the happy people, but you write as if their happiness should have conditions.
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
End of War in Iraq or Rebranding of Occupation? Neither.
By Raed Jarrar
Last week, the last U.S. “combat convoy” left Iraq. By the end of this month, the remaining “combat forces” will leave the country, putting the Obama administration on track to reduce the U.S. troop level to 50,000 by August 31.
The U.S. media coverage of this month’s withdrawal has been very confusing and inaccurate. It ranges from mainstream media outlets claiming that this is the end of the Iraq war, to leftist media accusing the Obama administration of pulling a trick to re-brand the occupation. This withdrawal deadline is neither.
No one, including the U.S. and Iraqi governments, is claiming this is the end of the war, and neither governments have expressed any intention to cancel or modify the terms of the binding bi-lateral Security Agreement. This month’s deadline is only a technical step forward in the withdrawal plan.
The Security Agreement that was signed between the U.S. and Iraq in 2008 set a clear plan with two deadlines for the U.S. departure. The first deadline required all the U.S. “combat forces” to withdraw from Iraqi cities, towns and villages by June 30, 2009. That withdrawal was implemented on time. The second deadline requires all U.S. troops and DOD contractors to leave Iraq completely, yes completely, before December 31, 2011. This deadline also requires that all U.S. military bases be shut down or handed-over to the Iraqi government.
What happened this month is not even included in the bi-lateral Security Agreement. Rather, it is a self-imposed deadline that was announced by President Obama on the campaign trail. According to this month’s deadline, all the U.S. “combat troops” must leave the country, bringing down the troop level to less than 50,000 and the contractors number to less than 75,000. In addition, August 31 will be the last official day of “Operation Iraqi Freedom”, and the U.S. mission thereafter will be called “New Dawn”.
Both the U.S. and Iraqi governments have been very clear about their intention to abide by the Security Agreement, and to bring the number of U.S. troops, DoD contractors, and military bases to ZERO by the end of next year.
That said, there is a loophole in the agreement that might allow the U.S. State Department, oil companies, or other foreign companies to maintain security contractors in Iraq beyond the December 31, 2011 deadline. For example, the current number of U.S. State Department’s security contractors in Iraq is around 3,500 but a New York Times piece last week revealed a plan to increase this number to 7,000 by the end of next year. While this does not constitute a legal breach of the bi-lateral Security Agreement, and while all such contractors will not enjoy legal immunity anymore, it is still a worrisome sign that the U.S. government is planning to continue interfering in Iraq after the end of the military occupation.
This loophole has led some voices in the U.S. to dismiss the entire bi-lateral Security Agreement and claim that this occupation will never end. But falling in a quagmire of skepticism will not end the occupation either. I think the Security Agreement will end the military occupation if it is implemented as agreed upon, and at the same time I believe there is more work that should be done to ensure other U.S. interventions in Iraq are dealt with as well.
For 19 years, Iraq and the U.S. have been in a state of war. It started with the 1991 war, and continued through three major bombing campaigns and semi-daily attacks during the 13 years of sanctions, culminating in the 2003 invasion and seven years of military occupation. Millions of Iraqis have been killed, injured, traumatized, displaced or forced to flee and live as refugees. The situation in Iraq has been miserable for years, and Iraq is still broken until now. Iraq will most likely not be a stable and secure country by the end of next year either.
Yet, prolonging the U.S. intervention will only exacerbate the challenges Iraq is facing. When President Obama took office, we were 1,000 days away from the December 31, 2011 deadline for ending the military occupation. Now, we are half way there. Ending the U.S. military occupation next year might not be the silver bullet that would end Iraq’s crisis, but it is the only way to allow Iraqis to move forward and start solving their problems.
My brother-in-law is home! This phase is done for this family! Yay yay yay!
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
Comments
More homecomings.
And lest we forget:
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2010/0819/Iraq-war-by-the-numbers-as-last-US-combat-brigade-leaves
Vietnam War footage along with Jefferson Airplane's Somebody to Love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiKzqcII0jQ
Vietname War images along with captions and CCR's Fortunate Son
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYeCYbaa ... re=related
Montage of Vietname images and songs from the era
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnnLrmboOYE&feature=related
My favorite video with songs - current conflicts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSMlIM9zLio
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
We had a computer "Cafe" which also had Voip phones that you could purchase minutes off of. The phone were pretty decent went down once in a while. We also used webcams over Yahoo chat. I also mailed letters, as well as wrote emails. I liked the "snail" mail better just felt more personal.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
I guess we're not counting civilian lives...
Congrats on your BIL coming home!
Don't forget to include a PJ cd in his package
but we have spent $750 billion of our own tax dollars on this, lost over 4000 american lives, and have nothing to show for it. biggest waste in american history.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I can’t help but wonder, watching all of these happy videos….is it still illegal to broadcast flag-draped coffins coming home? Why are we only allowed to feel the happy emotions related to war?
Yes, they’re drawing down…but from what I’ve read, nothing much has changed, other than the number of troops there. Doesn’t that make this just another Dog and Pony show?
On re-missioning:
http://original.antiwar.com/porter/2010 ... 09-pledge/
ANALYSIS-Will Obama keep U.S. troops in Iraq beyond 2011?
Gates leaves door open to post-2011 military presence
Former U.S. general says maybe "thousands" needed
Iraqi commander wants U.S. troops to stay until 2020
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN17129482
"If a new government is formed there and they want to talk about beyond 2011, we're obviously open to that discussion," - Robert Gates
(you can’t tell me the Iraqi government tells the US military what to do. If the US thinks it’s in their best interest to stay, they will TELL the Iraqi government to request that they stay – same goes with these “support and assist” missions).
Petraeus: We’re Not Leaving Iraq
Pentagon Surprised to Hear Reports that War Ended
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/08/19/petr ... ving-iraq/
"Well, first of all we are not leaving. There are 50,000 U.S. troops that are remaining in Iraq albeit in a support role rather than a leading combat role. But that's an enormous capability." Gen. Patraeus
Then there is this overlooked bit of awesomeness:
State Dept Confirms Plan to Escalate Security Contractors in Iraq
Aims to Double Number of Contractors by October of 2011
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/08/19/stat ... s-in-iraq/
You’re getting warmer….;)
The White House has lifted a 18-year ban on allowing news orgs to photograph the flag-draped caskets of fallen soldiers as they return to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. The first Bush banned media photography in '91, and Dubya kept the ban firmly in place as the mortality rate grew during the Iraq war. Many say the public deserves to see the images because they help paint a more accurate picture of… Read More http://propertalks.com/2009/02/26/making-the-cost-of-war-hit-home/
http://www.nppa.org/news_and_events/news/2009/04/dover01.html
Also, if you would like to see videos of funerals for fallen soliders or more images of fallen soldiers' coffins and flags, just google it. There's plenty of material.
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01442.html (4 years ago)
counting sanctions and the invasion of 91, the United States is responsible for the murder of millions of Iraqis.
Yes millionS. giving history's killers a run for their money, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot, all the really nasty fuckers....the US empire is right up there with em.
Yes, but they killed 3000 on 911 and supported al qaeda and had wmd's and saddam was an evil doer and.....
sigh....it was worth a million at least.
America fuck yeah
Now....no one cares to address any of the other points I made? This war is far from over...Im betting the US will have a permanent presence in Iraq, both militarily, and thru the MASSIVE Taj Mahal of an embassy built there. But hey, there are no "combat" troops left, so all good! (Even tho the remaining 52000 troops have the same gear and capabilities as the combat troops...then there are the private contractors/mercenaries, operating without oversight or culpability...)
Good job (spinning for the coming elections) Obama!
My, and his, 8 year old niece out-of-the-blue mentioned how it was sad he's so far away. She hardly sees him, and his deployment is significant to her - a girl without her daddy is not something she wants to be. It's not hard to understand why people are happy in those videos. That relief should not be tainted by criticism. I don't think you want to be critical of the happy people, but you write as if their happiness should have conditions.
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
End of War in Iraq or Rebranding of Occupation? Neither.
By Raed Jarrar
Last week, the last U.S. “combat convoy” left Iraq. By the end of this month, the remaining “combat forces” will leave the country, putting the Obama administration on track to reduce the U.S. troop level to 50,000 by August 31.
The U.S. media coverage of this month’s withdrawal has been very confusing and inaccurate. It ranges from mainstream media outlets claiming that this is the end of the Iraq war, to leftist media accusing the Obama administration of pulling a trick to re-brand the occupation. This withdrawal deadline is neither.
No one, including the U.S. and Iraqi governments, is claiming this is the end of the war, and neither governments have expressed any intention to cancel or modify the terms of the binding bi-lateral Security Agreement. This month’s deadline is only a technical step forward in the withdrawal plan.
The Security Agreement that was signed between the U.S. and Iraq in 2008 set a clear plan with two deadlines for the U.S. departure. The first deadline required all the U.S. “combat forces” to withdraw from Iraqi cities, towns and villages by June 30, 2009. That withdrawal was implemented on time. The second deadline requires all U.S. troops and DOD contractors to leave Iraq completely, yes completely, before December 31, 2011. This deadline also requires that all U.S. military bases be shut down or handed-over to the Iraqi government.
What happened this month is not even included in the bi-lateral Security Agreement. Rather, it is a self-imposed deadline that was announced by President Obama on the campaign trail. According to this month’s deadline, all the U.S. “combat troops” must leave the country, bringing down the troop level to less than 50,000 and the contractors number to less than 75,000. In addition, August 31 will be the last official day of “Operation Iraqi Freedom”, and the U.S. mission thereafter will be called “New Dawn”.
Both the U.S. and Iraqi governments have been very clear about their intention to abide by the Security Agreement, and to bring the number of U.S. troops, DoD contractors, and military bases to ZERO by the end of next year.
That said, there is a loophole in the agreement that might allow the U.S. State Department, oil companies, or other foreign companies to maintain security contractors in Iraq beyond the December 31, 2011 deadline. For example, the current number of U.S. State Department’s security contractors in Iraq is around 3,500 but a New York Times piece last week revealed a plan to increase this number to 7,000 by the end of next year. While this does not constitute a legal breach of the bi-lateral Security Agreement, and while all such contractors will not enjoy legal immunity anymore, it is still a worrisome sign that the U.S. government is planning to continue interfering in Iraq after the end of the military occupation.
This loophole has led some voices in the U.S. to dismiss the entire bi-lateral Security Agreement and claim that this occupation will never end. But falling in a quagmire of skepticism will not end the occupation either. I think the Security Agreement will end the military occupation if it is implemented as agreed upon, and at the same time I believe there is more work that should be done to ensure other U.S. interventions in Iraq are dealt with as well.
For 19 years, Iraq and the U.S. have been in a state of war. It started with the 1991 war, and continued through three major bombing campaigns and semi-daily attacks during the 13 years of sanctions, culminating in the 2003 invasion and seven years of military occupation. Millions of Iraqis have been killed, injured, traumatized, displaced or forced to flee and live as refugees. The situation in Iraq has been miserable for years, and Iraq is still broken until now. Iraq will most likely not be a stable and secure country by the end of next year either.
Yet, prolonging the U.S. intervention will only exacerbate the challenges Iraq is facing. When President Obama took office, we were 1,000 days away from the December 31, 2011 deadline for ending the military occupation. Now, we are half way there. Ending the U.S. military occupation next year might not be the silver bullet that would end Iraq’s crisis, but it is the only way to allow Iraqis to move forward and start solving their problems.
August 31 will be the last official day of “Operation Iraqi Freedom”
We Freedomed the Shit out of them. WOOT
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird