The main reason I would say it is not a privileged is solely because it is based upon an age we deem. We wouldn't say you have the privilege to work or privilege to join the army or have a drink, so why would it apply here? And if it is, it is solely based on the reward/benefit of being married which goes back to the two issues I mentioned. Also, if it is a privilege for society, it is being applied to some in a discriminatory manner. We don't say men can drink at 18, but women 19.. or some other type of inconsistency right? So where you consider it a privilege or right, it still boils down to discrimination based on outside, non-legitimate reasons. It's no different than slavery, voting or many of the policies we've engaged in which discriminated certain groups of people due to racism, bigotry or sexism through our history.
Rights are granted to you the day you are born. In some cultures, marriage may be a right but over here in the States it is a privilege. For instance, a 5 year old and a 7 year old cannot be married, regardless of sexual orientation.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
The main reason I would say it is not a privileged is solely because it is based upon an age we deem. We wouldn't say you have the privilege to work or privilege to join the army or have a drink, so why would it apply here? And if it is, it is solely based on the reward/benefit of being married which goes back to the two issues I mentioned. Also, if it is a privilege for society, it is being applied to some in a discriminatory manner. We don't say men can drink at 18, but women 19.. or some other type of inconsistency right? So where you consider it a privilege or right, it still boils down to discrimination based on outside, non-legitimate reasons. It's no different than slavery, voting or many of the policies we've engaged in which discriminated certain groups of people due to racism, bigotry or sexism through our history.
Rights are granted to you the day you are born. In some cultures, marriage may be a right but over here in the States it is a privilege. For instance, a 5 year old and a 7 year old cannot be married, regardless of sexual orientation.
I agree that it is discrimination. The right / privilege issue is a little more murky as you have pointed out above (but technically . . . ).
I'm more confused on why gay people want to get legally married in the first place. They have it made right now! You don't have to worry about your significant other dropping marriage hints or getting half your stuff taken away in a messy divorce or getting stuck in a legally-bound relationship that has gone stale. I'd be willing to bet a 55 gallon drum of cherry Kool-Aid that 40% of the couples in gay relationships have one member secretly crossing their fingers that Prop 8 stays.
Why people want to get legally married? How bout healthcare, taxes, access to medical and legal issues? Would you like to pay for things others get for free solely because of your sexual orientation?
Rights are granted to you the day you are born. In some cultures, marriage may be a right but over here in the States it is a privilege. For instance, a 5 year old and a 7 year old cannot be married, regardless of sexual orientation.
I agree that it is discrimination. The right / privilege issue is a little more murky as you have pointed out above (but technically . . . ).
I'm more confused on why gay people want to get legally married in the first place. They have it made right now! You don't have to worry about your significant other dropping marriage hints or getting half your stuff taken away in a messy divorce or getting stuck in a legally-bound relationship that has gone stale. I'd be willing to bet a 55 gallon drum of cherry Kool-Aid that 40% of the couples in gay relationships have one member secretly crossing their fingers that Prop 8 stays. [/quote]
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
But I don't even believe that marriage is a right. I believe it's a privilege.
My biggest belief, however, is that the government should have nothing to do with marriage whatsoever. It shouldn't be government's business.
Rights are granted to you the day you are born. In some cultures, marriage may be a right but over here in the States it is a privilege. For instance, a 5 year old and a 7 year old cannot be married, regardless of sexual orientation.
...
What about the right to vote? You are born with the right to vote when you reach age 18.
The government does not grant you the privilege to vote, you were guaranteed that right when you are born... even though you may not exercise that right until you are 18 (and are not in prison on a felony conviction).
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
What about the right to vote? You are born with the right to vote when you reach age 18.
The government does not grant you the privilege to vote, you were guaranteed that right when you are born... even though you may not exercise that right until you are 18 (and are not in prison on a felony conviction).
and by giving you that 'right' to vote youre also given the right NOT to vote. which is a right we here in australia do not have. though its really about getting your name marked off the roll... after that you can draw little piggies all over your ballot papers if you feel like it.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
What about the right to vote? You are born with the right to vote when you reach age 18.
The government does not grant you the privilege to vote, you were guaranteed that right when you are born... even though you may not exercise that right until you are 18 (and are not in prison on a felony conviction).
and by giving you that 'right' to vote youre also given the right NOT to vote. which is a right we here in australia do not have. though its really about getting your name marked off the roll... after that you can draw little piggies all over your ballot papers if you feel like it.
...
I cannot imagine that happening over here... we have way too many nimrods wearing tinfoil hats and armed to the teeth that would go berserk.
Yes... ours is a right to vote or not vote. To which the vast majority chooses not to vote... which explains a 23% voter turnout.
...
And yes... we have the right to marry or not to marry. If it were a priviledge... we would need to seek permission to marry with the possible outcome of denial. That is not how it should be... regardless of what the majority of the people believe.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
What about the right to vote? You are born with the right to vote when you reach age 18.
The government does not grant you the privilege to vote, you were guaranteed that right when you are born... even though you may not exercise that right until you are 18 (and are not in prison on a felony conviction).
and by giving you that 'right' to vote youre also given the right NOT to vote. which is a right we here in australia do not have. though its really about getting your name marked off the roll... after that you can draw little piggies all over your ballot papers if you feel like it.
...
I cannot imagine that happening over here... we have way too many nimrods wearing tinfoil hats and armed to the teeth that would go berserk.
Yes... ours is a right to vote or not vote. To which the vast majority chooses not to vote... which explains a 23% voter turnout.
...
And yes... we have the right to marry or not to marry. If it were a priviledge... we would need to seek permission to marry with the possible outcome of denial. That is not how it should be... regardless of what the majority of the people believe.
we dont have a bill of rights... thats the difference. voting is compulsory.
is it really a right to marry??? i just figured it was some cultural thing denied couples who are not male-female.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
and by giving you that 'right' to vote youre also given the right NOT to vote. which is a right we here in australia do not have. though its really about getting your name marked off the roll... after that you can draw little piggies all over your ballot papers if you feel like it.
...
I cannot imagine that happening over here... we have way too many nimrods wearing tinfoil hats and armed to the teeth that would go berserk.
Yes... ours is a right to vote or not vote. To which the vast majority chooses not to vote... which explains a 23% voter turnout.
...
And yes... we have the right to marry or not to marry. If it were a priviledge... we would need to seek permission to marry with the possible outcome of denial. That is not how it should be... regardless of what the majority of the people believe.
we dont have a bill of rights... thats the difference. voting is compulsory.
is it really a right to marry??? i just figured it was some cultural thing denied couples who are not male-female.
...
I think it comes from the catch all summary, "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".
If two guys make each other happy... who am I (or the church or the state) to deny them?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
we dont have a bill of rights... thats the difference. voting is compulsory.
is it really a right to marry??? i just figured it was some cultural thing denied couples who are not male-female.
...
I think it comes from the catch all summary, "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".
If two guys make each other happy... who am I (or the church or the state) to deny them?
thanks for the clarification. and i agree.. who are we to deny 2 people to marry of they so choose, regardless of their sex.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Ted Olson On FNS: ‘Would You Like Fox’s Right To Free Press Put Up To A Vote?’
This morning, Ted Olson — the conservative lawyer who represented President Bush in Bush v. Gore — appeared on Fox News Sunday to discuss his recent victory in overturning Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriages in California. Throughout the interview, host Chris Wallace attempted to trip up his guest with a series of familiar Republican talking points, all of which Olson repudiated.
Wallace asked Olson to identify the right to same-sex marriage in the constitution and wondered why “seven million Californians” “don’t get to say that marriage is between a man and a woman.” Olson replied that the Supreme Court has ruled that marriage was a fundamental right and pointed out that the constitution made no explicit mention of interracial marriage either. He stressed that under our system of government, voters can’t deprive minority groups of their constitutionally guaranteed protections and reminded Wallace that in the 1960s, “Californians voted to change their constitution to say that you could discriminate on the basis of race in the sale of your home; the United States Supreme Court struck that down.”
When Wallace pressed the point further, likening same-sex marriage to abortion and noting that “the political process in the case of same-sex marriage was working” since states had been deciding the issue on a “state-by-state basis,” Olson asked Wallace how he would like it if Fox News’ right to free speech was decided in such a manner:
OLSON: Well, would you like your right to free speech? Would you like Fox’s right to free press put up to a vote and say well, if five states approved it, let’s wait till the other 45 states do? These are fundament constitutional rights. The Bill of Rights guarantees Fox News and you, Chris Wallace, the right to speak. It’s in the constitution. And the Supreme Court has repeatedly held that the denial of our citizens of the equal rights to equal access to justice under the law, is a violation of our fundamental rights. Yes, it’s encouraging that many states are moving towards equality on the basis of sexual orientation, and I’m very, very pleased about that. … We can’t wait for the voters to decide that that immeasurable harm, that is unconstitutional, must be eliminated.
At the end of the interview, Wallace conceded that his right-wing points failed to crack Olson’s arguments. “Mr. Olson, we want to thank you so much for joining us today. We’ll keep following your lawsuit. And I gotta say, after your appearance today, I don’t understand how you ever lost a case in the supreme court, sir,” he said.
rights aren't granted to us by our government. i can say whatever the fuck i want whenever the fuck i want, i dont' need a constitution to tell me that...and i can go down the line.
your government doesnt' give you rights, it either chooses to take them away or not. it grants you nothing.
A great film chronicling the lawsuit that ultimately had Proposition 8 overturned and DOMA rescinded. It follows the 4 plaintiffs which were hand picked and vetted and the unlikely pairing of 2 lawyers.
A really well put together documentary which highlighted amongst other things how backwards some things are and how ignorant so many people are.
Comments
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I'm more confused on why gay people want to get legally married in the first place. They have it made right now! You don't have to worry about your significant other dropping marriage hints or getting half your stuff taken away in a messy divorce or getting stuck in a legally-bound relationship that has gone stale. I'd be willing to bet a 55 gallon drum of cherry Kool-Aid that 40% of the couples in gay relationships have one member secretly crossing their fingers that Prop 8 stays.
I agree that it is discrimination. The right / privilege issue is a little more murky as you have pointed out above (but technically . . .
I'm more confused on why gay people want to get legally married in the first place. They have it made right now! You don't have to worry about your significant other dropping marriage hints or getting half your stuff taken away in a messy divorce or getting stuck in a legally-bound relationship that has gone stale. I'd be willing to bet a 55 gallon drum of cherry Kool-Aid that 40% of the couples in gay relationships have one member secretly crossing their fingers that Prop 8 stays.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
What about the right to vote? You are born with the right to vote when you reach age 18.
The government does not grant you the privilege to vote, you were guaranteed that right when you are born... even though you may not exercise that right until you are 18 (and are not in prison on a felony conviction).
Hail, Hail!!!
and by giving you that 'right' to vote youre also given the right NOT to vote. which is a right we here in australia do not have. though its really about getting your name marked off the roll... after that you can draw little piggies all over your ballot papers if you feel like it.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I cannot imagine that happening over here... we have way too many nimrods wearing tinfoil hats and armed to the teeth that would go berserk.
Yes... ours is a right to vote or not vote. To which the vast majority chooses not to vote... which explains a 23% voter turnout.
...
And yes... we have the right to marry or not to marry. If it were a priviledge... we would need to seek permission to marry with the possible outcome of denial. That is not how it should be... regardless of what the majority of the people believe.
Hail, Hail!!!
we dont have a bill of rights... thats the difference. voting is compulsory.
is it really a right to marry??? i just figured it was some cultural thing denied couples who are not male-female.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I think it comes from the catch all summary, "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".
If two guys make each other happy... who am I (or the church or the state) to deny them?
Hail, Hail!!!
thanks for the clarification. and i agree.. who are we to deny 2 people to marry of they so choose, regardless of their sex.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
and
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... -marriages
This morning, Ted Olson — the conservative lawyer who represented President Bush in Bush v. Gore — appeared on Fox News Sunday to discuss his recent victory in overturning Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriages in California. Throughout the interview, host Chris Wallace attempted to trip up his guest with a series of familiar Republican talking points, all of which Olson repudiated.
Wallace asked Olson to identify the right to same-sex marriage in the constitution and wondered why “seven million Californians” “don’t get to say that marriage is between a man and a woman.” Olson replied that the Supreme Court has ruled that marriage was a fundamental right and pointed out that the constitution made no explicit mention of interracial marriage either. He stressed that under our system of government, voters can’t deprive minority groups of their constitutionally guaranteed protections and reminded Wallace that in the 1960s, “Californians voted to change their constitution to say that you could discriminate on the basis of race in the sale of your home; the United States Supreme Court struck that down.”
When Wallace pressed the point further, likening same-sex marriage to abortion and noting that “the political process in the case of same-sex marriage was working” since states had been deciding the issue on a “state-by-state basis,” Olson asked Wallace how he would like it if Fox News’ right to free speech was decided in such a manner:
OLSON: Well, would you like your right to free speech? Would you like Fox’s right to free press put up to a vote and say well, if five states approved it, let’s wait till the other 45 states do? These are fundament constitutional rights. The Bill of Rights guarantees Fox News and you, Chris Wallace, the right to speak. It’s in the constitution. And the Supreme Court has repeatedly held that the denial of our citizens of the equal rights to equal access to justice under the law, is a violation of our fundamental rights. Yes, it’s encouraging that many states are moving towards equality on the basis of sexual orientation, and I’m very, very pleased about that. … We can’t wait for the voters to decide that that immeasurable harm, that is unconstitutional, must be eliminated.
At the end of the interview, Wallace conceded that his right-wing points failed to crack Olson’s arguments. “Mr. Olson, we want to thank you so much for joining us today. We’ll keep following your lawsuit. And I gotta say, after your appearance today, I don’t understand how you ever lost a case in the supreme court, sir,” he said.
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/ ... ace-olson/
rights aren't granted to us by our government. i can say whatever the fuck i want whenever the fuck i want, i dont' need a constitution to tell me that...and i can go down the line.
your government doesnt' give you rights, it either chooses to take them away or not. it grants you nothing.
A great film chronicling the lawsuit that ultimately had Proposition 8 overturned and DOMA rescinded. It follows the 4 plaintiffs which were hand picked and vetted and the unlikely pairing of 2 lawyers.
A really well put together documentary which highlighted amongst other things how backwards some things are and how ignorant so many people are.