Israel's harassment of citizens could ignite uprising, warns
Pepe Silvia
Posts: 3,758
according to prfctlfts and some others this is 'hating israel' but i suppose being against the racist actions before the civil rights movement here was hating the us or hating white people.... :roll:
racism is wrong no matter which race is doing to whatever race. so is oppression and collective punishment. it's a shame the jews complained about the repressive tactics of the british and how their collective punishment only fueled terrorist attacks and their support among the populace and now they seemed to have forgotten that lesson.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju ... sset-zoabi
Israel's harassment of citizens could ignite uprising, warns Arab politician
• State playing with fire, says member of Knesset
• Zoabi cites anti-democracy bills as 'undermining'
Israel could ignite a third intifada if it continues to push its 1.2 million Arab citizens into a corner, claims Haneen Zoabi, the Arab member of the Knesset vilified for joining the Gaza aid flotilla.
Zoabi, who was branded a traitor for her participation in the Gaza convoy, warned that Israel was playing with fire. "We accepted a democratic, liberal state, we voted for the Knesset. But we are not just an internal issue – we are the litmus test of the whole problem. If Israel does not recognise this, conditions will deteriorate towards a third intifada."
But she rejected any suggestion that Israel's Arab citizens supported violence.
Zoabi rounded on a Hamas leader for suggesting her community could be used during civil unrest as a fifth column, conducting sabotage against the Israeli state. Mohammed Arman, a senior Hamas commander, had said, in a book smuggled out of his Israeli jail, that the role of Palestinian citizens of Israel would be to "harass the occupiers, disrupt their daily routine and undermine their confidence".
Zoabi said: "We don't accept that. I don't even like the word violent. Israel wants us to break the law and we won't. I did not break any laws by being on the Mavi Marmara" – the Turkish ship which was seized by Israeli forces as it attempted to break the siege of Gaza.
When she returned to Israel following the raid on the flotilla in which nine activists were killed, Zoabi, who represents the Arab political party Balad, faced death threats, and was jostled and sworn at in the Knesset chamber. She was also stripped of three parliamentary privileges. "I did not even break Knesset rules. The result is they are trying to change the law to de-legitimise me and my people."
Zoabi, who remains under armed protection, says that what happened to her was symptomatic of a broader campaign to undermine her community
The Association for Civil Rights in Israel says 14 bills, now working their way through the Israeli parliament, are antidemocratic. These range from demands that Arab citizens swear loyalty to Israel as a Jewish and democratic state, to a bill threatening imprisonment or financial sanctions for marking the event Nakba (an Arabic word describing Israel's war of independence) with protests, and a bill that criminalises starting up or developing boycotts against Israel.
The bills appear to be the latest sign of a campaign to force Palestinians who did not flee when the state of Israel was created in 1948 to chose between their identity and their citizenship.
Zoabi said a Palestinian man's conviction last week for "rape by deception" – after he had consensual sex with an Israeli woman who believed him to be a fellow Jew – was an example of "collective psychosis". She said: "Usually a regime wants to free its people from fear and hatred. This one trades on fear and paranoia."
When a policeman who shot a Palestinian car thief dead was this month given a three-year sentence there was such a public backlash the court took the unprecedented step of issuing a press release defending its decision.
Zoabi said that under this pressure her community, which makes up a fifth of Israel's population, was changing from one that saw itself as fighting for its civil rights to one that was part and parcel of the Palestinian struggle. "It took us 40 years for us to admit that we were even Palestinians. Another 15 years passed before we realised that the peace process started under Oslo had been a disaster. The Zionist project was to domesticate its Arab citizens as the hewers and drawers of water. But the carrot-and-stick approach failed, and now we see Israel is prepared to throw away its liberal side to control us. We were passive once and now we are becoming active about our national identity," Zoabi said.
In 1999 more than 90% of her community voted for the Israeli Labour party leader, Ehud Barak, who was to start talks with Yasser Arafat on a two-state plan.
Zoabi cites polls that say 89% would vote for a state "for all", the formula used by Balad for a bi-national secular state. Her party still officially favours a two-state plan. But Zoabi has expressed doubt that the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, could negotiate any state from Israel "bigger than a local authority". She said: "We did not immigrate to Israel. Israel immigrated to us. We are the indigenous people of a land from which we are being gradually expelled."
A life in politics
Born in Nazareth to an old and well-connected Palestinian family, Haneen Zoabi, aged 41, read philosophy and psychology at Haifa University and became the first Arab citizen to graduate from a media studies course. Her interest in politics was awakened by her desire to see equal rights for women. She became the first woman to be elected to the Knesset on an Arab party's list. Like her party Balad she rejects the idea of Israel as a Jewish state and says this is the only way to fight the demands of the far-right foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman that Israeli Arabs take loyalty oaths. Branded a traitor for being on the Turkish ship attacked by Israeli commandos, she said she received 300 letters of support from Israelis who backed her right to protest against the siege of Gaza.
racism is wrong no matter which race is doing to whatever race. so is oppression and collective punishment. it's a shame the jews complained about the repressive tactics of the british and how their collective punishment only fueled terrorist attacks and their support among the populace and now they seemed to have forgotten that lesson.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju ... sset-zoabi
Israel's harassment of citizens could ignite uprising, warns Arab politician
• State playing with fire, says member of Knesset
• Zoabi cites anti-democracy bills as 'undermining'
Israel could ignite a third intifada if it continues to push its 1.2 million Arab citizens into a corner, claims Haneen Zoabi, the Arab member of the Knesset vilified for joining the Gaza aid flotilla.
Zoabi, who was branded a traitor for her participation in the Gaza convoy, warned that Israel was playing with fire. "We accepted a democratic, liberal state, we voted for the Knesset. But we are not just an internal issue – we are the litmus test of the whole problem. If Israel does not recognise this, conditions will deteriorate towards a third intifada."
But she rejected any suggestion that Israel's Arab citizens supported violence.
Zoabi rounded on a Hamas leader for suggesting her community could be used during civil unrest as a fifth column, conducting sabotage against the Israeli state. Mohammed Arman, a senior Hamas commander, had said, in a book smuggled out of his Israeli jail, that the role of Palestinian citizens of Israel would be to "harass the occupiers, disrupt their daily routine and undermine their confidence".
Zoabi said: "We don't accept that. I don't even like the word violent. Israel wants us to break the law and we won't. I did not break any laws by being on the Mavi Marmara" – the Turkish ship which was seized by Israeli forces as it attempted to break the siege of Gaza.
When she returned to Israel following the raid on the flotilla in which nine activists were killed, Zoabi, who represents the Arab political party Balad, faced death threats, and was jostled and sworn at in the Knesset chamber. She was also stripped of three parliamentary privileges. "I did not even break Knesset rules. The result is they are trying to change the law to de-legitimise me and my people."
Zoabi, who remains under armed protection, says that what happened to her was symptomatic of a broader campaign to undermine her community
The Association for Civil Rights in Israel says 14 bills, now working their way through the Israeli parliament, are antidemocratic. These range from demands that Arab citizens swear loyalty to Israel as a Jewish and democratic state, to a bill threatening imprisonment or financial sanctions for marking the event Nakba (an Arabic word describing Israel's war of independence) with protests, and a bill that criminalises starting up or developing boycotts against Israel.
The bills appear to be the latest sign of a campaign to force Palestinians who did not flee when the state of Israel was created in 1948 to chose between their identity and their citizenship.
Zoabi said a Palestinian man's conviction last week for "rape by deception" – after he had consensual sex with an Israeli woman who believed him to be a fellow Jew – was an example of "collective psychosis". She said: "Usually a regime wants to free its people from fear and hatred. This one trades on fear and paranoia."
When a policeman who shot a Palestinian car thief dead was this month given a three-year sentence there was such a public backlash the court took the unprecedented step of issuing a press release defending its decision.
Zoabi said that under this pressure her community, which makes up a fifth of Israel's population, was changing from one that saw itself as fighting for its civil rights to one that was part and parcel of the Palestinian struggle. "It took us 40 years for us to admit that we were even Palestinians. Another 15 years passed before we realised that the peace process started under Oslo had been a disaster. The Zionist project was to domesticate its Arab citizens as the hewers and drawers of water. But the carrot-and-stick approach failed, and now we see Israel is prepared to throw away its liberal side to control us. We were passive once and now we are becoming active about our national identity," Zoabi said.
In 1999 more than 90% of her community voted for the Israeli Labour party leader, Ehud Barak, who was to start talks with Yasser Arafat on a two-state plan.
Zoabi cites polls that say 89% would vote for a state "for all", the formula used by Balad for a bi-national secular state. Her party still officially favours a two-state plan. But Zoabi has expressed doubt that the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, could negotiate any state from Israel "bigger than a local authority". She said: "We did not immigrate to Israel. Israel immigrated to us. We are the indigenous people of a land from which we are being gradually expelled."
A life in politics
Born in Nazareth to an old and well-connected Palestinian family, Haneen Zoabi, aged 41, read philosophy and psychology at Haifa University and became the first Arab citizen to graduate from a media studies course. Her interest in politics was awakened by her desire to see equal rights for women. She became the first woman to be elected to the Knesset on an Arab party's list. Like her party Balad she rejects the idea of Israel as a Jewish state and says this is the only way to fight the demands of the far-right foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman that Israeli Arabs take loyalty oaths. Branded a traitor for being on the Turkish ship attacked by Israeli commandos, she said she received 300 letters of support from Israelis who backed her right to protest against the siege of Gaza.
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
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Israel linked to exiled sheikh's bid for 'coup' in Gulf emirate of RAK
• UK ambassador advising Sheikh Khalid of Ras al-Khaimeh
• Tiny UAE state 'aids trafficking of nuclear parts' to Iran
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju ... h-uae-coup
Israel is aiding an exiled Arab sheikh who is vying to seize control of a strategically important Gulf emirate only 40 miles from Iran.
The Israeli ambassador to London, Ron Prosor, has met Sheikh Khalid bin Saqr al-Qasimi, the exiled crown prince of Ras al-Khaimeh (RAK), who asked him to help with his campaign to oust the leadership of the northernmost state in the United Arab Emirates.
The meeting took place in London in March and has been followed by phone calls and wider assistance and advice, according to records of the relationship seen by the Guardian.
Khalid, who has been based in London and has hired a solicitor from Ickenham as his agent, is bidding to replace his ailing father, Sheikh Saqr, and half brother, Sheikh Saud, to take control of RAK.
Israel's involvement in what would be a bloodless coup in one of the most sensitive regions in the world, would be "extremely uncomfortable", according to Dr Christopher Davidson, an expert on the politics of the UAE at Durham University.
Khalid, who was sent into exile in 2003, claims RAK is now acting as a trafficking hub for nuclear arms parts to Iran and has spent more than £4m on an international public relations and lobbying campaign to persuade American politicians and the pro-Israel lobby in the US that it would be safer if he were in charge.
The alliance with Israel is the latest twist in the already extraordinary saga of Khalid's bid to return to power. In June the Guardian revealed that his fighting fund was being channelled through Peter Cathcart, a 59-year-old miniature steam railway enthusiast and parish council chairman who runs a family firm of solicitors in Ickenham, west London.
He in turn was spending it on top Washington lobbyists, Californian PR consultants and military experts to draw up dossiers damning the regime in RAK.
Prosor has pressed his contacts in the US government on behalf of Khalid whose aides asked for help setting up meetings in Washington with anyone interested in their claims about RAK's alleged sanctions busting, particularly concerning parts for the Iranian nuclear programme, plot records seen by this newspaper show.
An email from Cathcart to the ambassador's office reports that "His Highness … very much enjoyed his meeting with the ambassador".
In April Cathcart arranged for the two men to speak on the phone when the sheikh was in Oman and a note of the conversation recorded by Cathcart shows the ambassador "is working with certain people from his side" and "promised that the matter will be solved in his [the sheikh's] favour".
Sheikh Saqr is understood to be dying in hospital in Abu Dhabi and his son, Sheikh Saud, 54, the sitting crown prince, has been told to begin preparations for his wake, a significant event in emirates politics, which is likely to be attended by Abu Dhabi's rulers, who will have a large influence over which of the sons will succeed him.
"By meeting with the Israeli ambassador, he is sending out signals to Abu Dhabi and Washington DC that he will be hawkish on Iran if it comes to war," said Davidson. "This is a new kind of coup. It doesn't involve slitting throats, but instead spending large sums of money on global communications. It is the first of its kind and I am betting on it being successful. I think by the end of the summer we will have a verdict."
Asked about Israel's involvement, Peter Ragone, a spokesman for Khalid, said: "There is significant interest in the current RAK regime's relationship to Iran, particularly in the context of trying to stop the flow of arms, goods and technology from going through RAK to the Islamic Republic. Sheikh Khalid and representatives from his team meet with elected officials, high-ranking government officials and media representatives of various countries all the time. In fact, this week Sheikh Khalid's representatives are in Washington DC meeting representatives of the US foreign policy/national security establishment who are very concerned about the activity in RAK."
Odelia Englander, a spokeswoman at the Israeli embassy in London, declined to comment.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
is this the world we live in now where a country like Israel is not chastised for committing crimes, but rather the individuals reporting that these crimes are going on are??
yeah the bully in the school yard has bad days...but if you know guys he's beating up every single day, you tend not to give a shit.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL063380220080306
Feb 25, 2005 - A suicide bomber kills five Israelis and wounds about 50 people outside the Stage nightclub in Tel Aviv. Islamic Jihad claims responsibility.
July 12 - A Palestinian blows himself up at an Israeli shopping mall in Netanya, killing five and wounding at least 30. Islamic Jihad claims responsibility.
Aug 28 - A suicide bomber blows himself up at the entrance to Beersheba's central bus station, wounding at least 40.
Oct 26 - A Palestinian blows himself up in the main market at Hadera. Six people die and more than 30 are wounded.
Dec 5 - A suicide bomber blows himself up at the entrance to the Sharon shopping mall in Netanya, killing five and wounding at least 40. Islamic Jihad's Jerusalem Brigades claims responsibility.
Dec 29 - An Israeli soldier and two Palestinian bystanders are killed in a suicide bombing in Tulkarm in the occupied West Bank. Islamic Jihad claims responsibility.
Jan 19, 2006 - A Palestinian suicide bomber blows himself up at a sandwich stand near Tel Aviv's old central bus station, wounding 30 people. Islamic Jihad claims the bombing.
March 30 - A Palestinian suicide bomber kills four Israelis near the West Bank settlement of Kedumim. Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades later claims responsibility.
April 17 - A Palestinian suicide bomber kills 11 people and wounds about 60 at a sandwich stand near Tel Aviv's old central bus station. Both Islamic Jihad and Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade claim responsibility.
Jan 29, 2007 - A suicide bomber kills three people in a bakery in Eilat at the northern tip of the Red Sea. Three groups -- Islamic Jihad, al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, part of President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah faction, and the previously unknown "Army of Believers" -- claim responsibility.
Feb 4, 2008 - A suicide bomber kills a woman in the southern town of Dimona. A second blast is prevented when police shoot dead a second bomber. Hamas's armed wing claims responsibility the next day, the first such attack claimed by the group since 2004.
how are these injustices!?
without going into the context of each of these points ... let's just say they are all acts of violence against israel - it is likely that in each of these cases, Israel has sought and received retribution (often disproportionate of the initial act) ...
injustices are when one side is treated unfairly based on some objective reasoning of fairness ... i don't consider these actions injustices - simply acts of revenge against a nation who has continuously oppressed another ...
i would say rarely but not impossible ... canada had an injustice against it when the US basically said F U to the WTO and basically every major International Body during it's dispute over softwood lumber ...
at the end of the day ... Israel has essentially bucked justice because of the US's permanent seat on the security council ... every major UN resolution condemning or calling on Israel has been vetoed by the US preventing justice from being done ... i can appreciate someone not wanting to read anti-israel posts and threads but to say that israel has many injustices done against it is simply wrong ...
should we feel sorry for all the "injustices" Apartheid South Africa went through? Yes, it is sad to see any innocent people die, but the truth is that Israel incurs these injustices unto itself. if they really wanted these bombings to stop, they would simply abide by international law. why is this so hard for people to understand? seriously, how ignorant are you guys? do you think Palestinians are just bloodthirsty murderers and Israel is actually just defending itself? or is the reality that Israel, like most colonial states, uses violence to preserve its discriminatory state and keep the indigenous population subdued, to maintain its deterrence capacity, and to continually steal more land from the native population?
to quote Mr Netanyahu, it's ridiculous how much support Americans have for Israel.
I probably already know the answer based on your previous posts, but I was just wondering, do you think that Israelis are just bloodthirsty murderers and the Palestinians are just defending themselves?
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
You obviously didn't read my whole post because right after the sentence you bolded I clarified that the reason Israel uses violence is:
"that Israel, like most colonial states, uses violence to preserve its discriminatory state and keep the indigenous population subdued, to maintain its deterrence capacity, and to continually steal more land from the native population "
so no, Israel doesn't thirst for the blood of the Palestinians, though Israel doesn't give a shit for it either, and it's clearly willing to sacrifice innocent Palestinians to achieve its goal - which is unjust to begin with. You see, that is the difference between the Israelis using violence and the Palestinians using violence. The Israelis use it to achieve an unjust goal - a Jewish superior state based on apartheid and discrimination that alienates the land's native population. on the other hand, the Palestinians use a tactic reactionary to a colonial power - a colonial power that also heavily involves a settler movement.
I should probably stop now, your head is probably about to explode.
The idea of a modern Jewish state has been around for over 150 years and has it's roots in the nationalism of the 19th century (the same nationalism that founded countries such as Germany and Italy). This ambition was of course enhanced by the antisemitism that was common place in Europe of the late 19th century and early 20th century.
Is it so wrong for a historically persecuted people to want a place that they can call home in the land that historically is their home? As for asking this question of the Palestinians, as I have stated in the past, I personally believe that the best solution for all sides is a two state solution separating the two people. This is also why there have been peace talks over the years between the 2 sides (which will hopefully be renewed in the upcoming days).
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
there's already a thread about it if you want to carry on the discussion there.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=136487&start=0
There we go... the victim excuse again :roll: Give the Roma a homeland then.....
It is a culture, unfortunately it is very egocentric and condescending about its ways. having your own religion is one thing, and i am fine with that, but using that religion as an excuse to do all sorts of terrible things to your neighbors is something else. and when you build a government around that idea, it gets very serious. not saying arab states aren't influenced by islam, what i am saying is that israel is zionist, racist and using its religion and fear of the holocaust to do all sorts of terrible things to others. the same can't be said of any other country.
Tell me this: If you truly believe that a persecuted people should have the right to a home in the land that historically is their home, then you should support the Palestinian cause; these are a people who were forcibly removed from their homes in order to accommodate a colonial settler movement. Eastern European Jews are not historically from Palestine - this lie has already been proven as a fabrication.
Of course you would believe the two state solution is the best. Of course, this two state solution would be Israel's interpretation and would offer no compensation for the Palestinians who deserve so much more after having been persecuted for decades. Of course this will not accommodate the millions of Palestinian refugees around the world, many of whom have no international status or even a passport, who deserve the right to return. Of course this would not accommodate the Palestinian population living inside Israel, who are discriminated against on a daily basis both by the majority jewish population and by the government itself. but why should you give a shit about that? anything that legitimizes the zionist movement would be the best solution for you. unfortunately, the more that Israel acts like an apartheid state as it does every day the less legitimacy it's going to have in the western world. days are numbered
So you are saying that you accept that the eastern jews are historically from Israel. In that case, you have no problem with me personally living here as my father was born in Syria.
What I believe is that these things would be brought up during peace talks and agreed upon by both sides.
When you say "Paelstinian population living inside Israel" do you mean arab Israelis? If so, I am sure that they would have the option to become citizens of the new Palestinian state if they so wanted, solving this problem. If you mean Palestinians who do not hold Israeli citizenship, they are not Israeli citizens, so they would be illegal immigrants if a Palestinian state was founded, and I assume would be deported to such state.
As for the rest of what you posted, I will not dignify it with a response.
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin