Israel Chokes Gaza Despite Announced Easing

Commy

considering Israel withdrawing to the 1967 borders would bring peace, it might be worth looking into.



especially considering the land belonged to the Palestinians pre 1967.





Israel wouldn't be making all the concessions....its land they have stolen. People want their homes back, that's all.

rafie

Commy wrote:

considering Israel withdrawing to the 1967 borders would bring peace, it might be worth looking into.



especially considering the land belonged to the Palestinians pre 1967.





Israel wouldn't be making all the concessions....its land they have stolen. People want their homes back, that's all.

It's actually land that belonged to the Jordanians pre 1967 and they did not want it back when Jordan and Israel signed their peace treaty. As for the "stealing land", one of the main outcomes of almost every war ever fought has been border changes, What makes this one so special?

Commy

rafie wrote:

Commy wrote:

considering Israel withdrawing to the 1967 borders would bring peace, it might be worth looking into.



especially considering the land belonged to the Palestinians pre 1967.





Israel wouldn't be making all the concessions....its land they have stolen. People want their homes back, that's all.

It's actually land that belonged to the Jordanians pre 1967 and they did not want it back when Jordan and Israel signed their peace treaty. As for the "stealing land", one of the main outcomes of almost every war ever fought has been border changes, What makes this one so special?

?





When your goal is peace (and according to Israel peace is the goal yeah?) and when the only thing preventing you from attaining that goal is to withdraw from recently conquered territory...logic (fucking gradeschool logic) tells us Israel should withdraw from said territory.



Israels' hysteric reaction to nonexistent threat is telling, should we be giving this country $3 billion a year in weaponry? Should we have given them nukes? Israeli s clearly unstable.

TriumphantAngel

rafie wrote:

Pepe, despite the articles you posted above, I live in Israel, and I assure you that very few people actually migrate to the settlements in the west bank.

so B'tselem are lying? is that what you are saying?

i assume you understand who B'stelem are? but for the benefit of anyone else who may be reading this thread, and doesn't know, here you go.

B'TSELEM - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories was established in 1989 by a group of prominent academics, attorneys, journalists, and Knesset members. It endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories, combat the phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public, and help create a human rights culture in Israel.

As an Israeli human rights organization, B'Tselem acts primarily to change Israeli policy in the Occupied Territories and ensure that its government, which rules the Occupied Territories, protects the human rights of residents there and complies with its obligations under international law.

B'Tselem is independent and is funded by contributions from foundations in Europe and North America that support human rights activity worldwide, and by private individuals in Israel and abroad.

B'Tselem has attained a prominent place among human rights organizations. In December, 1989 it received the Carter-Menil Award for Human Rights. Its reports have gained B'Tselem a reputation for accuracy, and the Israeli authorities relate to them seriously. B'Tselem ensures the reliability of information it publishes by conducting its own fieldwork and research, the results of which are thoroughly cross-checked with relevant documents, official government sources, and information from other sources, among them Israeli, Palestinian, and other human rights organizations

rafie

TriumphantAngel wrote:

rafie wrote:

Pepe, despite the articles you posted above, I live in Israel, and I assure you that very few people actually migrate to the settlements in the west bank.

so B'tselem are lying? is that what you are saying?

i assume you understand who B'stelem are? but for the benefit of anyone else who may be reading this thread, and doesn't know, here you go.

B'TSELEM - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories was established in 1989 by a group of prominent academics, attorneys, journalists, and Knesset members. It endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories, combat the phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public, and help create a human rights culture in Israel.

As an Israeli human rights organization, B'Tselem acts primarily to change Israeli policy in the Occupied Territories and ensure that its government, which rules the Occupied Territories, protects the human rights of residents there and complies with its obligations under international law.

B'Tselem is independent and is funded by contributions from foundations in Europe and North America that support human rights activity worldwide, and by private individuals in Israel and abroad.

B'Tselem has attained a prominent place among human rights organizations. In December, 1989 it received the Carter-Menil Award for Human Rights. Its reports have gained B'Tselem a reputation for accuracy, and the Israeli authorities relate to them seriously. B'Tselem ensures the reliability of information it publishes by conducting its own fieldwork and research, the results of which are thoroughly cross-checked with relevant documents, official government sources, and information from other sources, among them Israeli, Palestinian, and other human rights organizations

Triumphant angel, where exactly did I say Bezelem were lying? Re-read the article pepe posted. It talk about the incentives, but does not state if these incentives actually succeed in bringing new residents to the area.

TriumphantAngel

rafie wrote:

TriumphantAngel wrote:

rafie wrote:

Pepe, despite the articles you posted above, I live in Israel, and I assure you that very few people actually migrate to the settlements in the west bank.

so B'tselem are lying? is that what you are saying?

i assume you understand who B'stelem are? but for the benefit of anyone else who may be reading this thread, and doesn't know, here you go.

B'TSELEM - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories was established in 1989 by a group of prominent academics, attorneys, journalists, and Knesset members. It endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories, combat the phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public, and help create a human rights culture in Israel.

As an Israeli human rights organization, B'Tselem acts primarily to change Israeli policy in the Occupied Territories and ensure that its government, which rules the Occupied Territories, protects the human rights of residents there and complies with its obligations under international law.

B'Tselem is independent and is funded by contributions from foundations in Europe and North America that support human rights activity worldwide, and by private individuals in Israel and abroad.

B'Tselem has attained a prominent place among human rights organizations. In December, 1989 it received the Carter-Menil Award for Human Rights. Its reports have gained B'Tselem a reputation for accuracy, and the Israeli authorities relate to them seriously. B'Tselem ensures the reliability of information it publishes by conducting its own fieldwork and research, the results of which are thoroughly cross-checked with relevant documents, official government sources, and information from other sources, among them Israeli, Palestinian, and other human rights organizations

Triumphant angel, where exactly did I say Bezelem were lying? Re-read the article pepe posted. It talk about the incentives, but does not state if these incentives actually succeed in bringing new residents to the area.

the settler populaton has increased by 28% between 2004 and 2009, due to extensive construction in the settlements and the general incentives Israel offers settlers.

unless of course you are suggesting the settlers are saying no to the incentives :roll: .

B’Tselem also reports that the settler population has tripled since 1993, from 110,000 to 301,200.

“Israel was supposed to begin implementing its road map obligations in May 2003,” the report says. “Since 2004, however, due to extensive construction in the settlements and the generous incentives Israel offers settlers, the settler population (not including those in east Jerusalem) grew by 28%, from 235,263 to 301,200 persons by the end of 2009.

In 2008, the annual growth of the settler population was three times greater than the natural growth of the population inside Israel – 5% as opposed to 1.8% respectively.”

http://www.jpost.com/International/Arti ... ?id=180563

TriumphantAngel

B'Tselem: Settlements must be evacuated

Published 06/07/2010 13:14

Bethlehem - Ma'an -

Forty-two percent of the West Bank is governed by the illegal Israeli settlement councils, Israeli rights organization B'Tselem revealed in a new study about illegal Israeli settlements in the Palestinian territory of the West Bank, published Tuesday.

Released as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu prepares to meet with US President Barack Obama in Washington, the report By Hook and by Crook: Israel's Settlement Policy in the West Bank, uses government reports, Civil Administration maps and military documents to compile a picture of "the mechanisms used to gain Israeli control of land in the West Bank."

The publication came out one day after the Israeli newspaper Haaretz ran a report saying settlers were poised to build some 2,700 settlement units as soon as the 10-month partial settlement freeze on some West Bank settlements comes to an end at the close of September.

By cross-referencing Civil Administration data with 2009 aerial photos of settlements, B'Tselem said it found that a full 21% of the built-up areas of settlements are built on private Palestinian lands, recognized by the state as such.

"In taking over all of these lands, the settlement enterprise has, since its inception, treated international law, local legislation, Israeli military orders, and Israeli law in an instrumental, cynical, and even criminal manner," a statement from the report writers said, adding that the report proved false claims that Israel was only building on "state land" in the West Bank.

The report counted 300,000 setters living in 121 settlements and about one hundred outposts in the West Bank, and another 200,000 living in Jerusalem settlements, illegally annexed to Israel in the 1970s.

Dispelling myths about settlements

The B'Tselem report addressed several arguments made by the state of Israel and settlement supporters, using data to debunk the idea that settlements grew only to accommodate natural growth - citing a 20% increase of settler population despite a negative growth rate for Israel over the year - and illustrating several "benefits and incentives Israel provides to encourage Israelis to move to the settlements," the report said.

Underscoring an earlier problematic declaration of a settlement construction freeze, the report found that between 2004, when Israel said a freeze would be undertaken as part of the Road Map implementation, to 2009, the settler population grew by 28% not including growth in East Jerusalem.

The report further questioned the placement of settlements, saying allocation of 66% of settlements as "state land" was "only possible through a manipulative interpretation of all relevant laws in force in the West Bank."

B'Tselem numbers showed 900,000 dunams of land - 16% of the West Bank - was declared state land for the purpose of settlement construction, and explained that Israeli government interpretations of Ottoman Land Law, used to declare the area under the jurisdiction of the state, "contradicted explicit statutory provisions and judgments of the Mandatory Supreme Court."

According to the rights group, "[w]ithout this distorted interpretation, Israel would not have been able to allocate such extensive areas of land for the settlements."

Call for evacuation

Based on the findings of its latest report, lawyers and rights workers with B'Tselem called for the "Israeli government evacuate all the settlements, in a manner that respects the settlers’ human rights, including the payment of compensation."

The group said the settlements were an infringement of Palestinians’ human rights and a violation of international law, and suggested that until settlements can be evacuated, interim measures should be taken, including a "real freeze on new and planned construction," an end to land seizures, and cancellation of the benefits and incentives to encourage migration to the settlements.
http://www.aljazeerah.info/News/2010/Ju ... %20Law.htm

yosi

I thought this was an interesting read.

An End to Gaza's (Literally) Underground Economy

Jul 20 2010, 12:20 PM ET | Comment

RAFAH CITY, Gaza -- After a three-year absence from the store shelves of Gaza, a popular Israeli juice called Tibuzina reappeared recently, only to disappear again in less than an hour. Eager residents, it turned out, had called each other excitedly and rushed to the supermarket. Some got the word but showed up too late. The juice was gone.

Tibuzina is one among many Hebrew brand names that returned to Gaza's stores after Israel eased its economic siege of the territory in June, following its deadly raid on the Turkish flotilla. Gazans have flocked to buy the new goods, which they say are higher-quality and cheaper than what was previously available--contraband ferried through tunnels from Egypt.

But at the Egyptian border, in the heart of Gaza's tunnel industry, there's little if any rejoicing at the blockade's dismantlement. As Israeli consumer goods saturate Gaza's markets, the tunnels have lost their clientele. Smugglers understand that their days are numbered, but there's nothing to replace the jobs the industry provided.

"Work has run dry. Every day is getting worse and worse. It's the end of the tunnel period," says Abu Mohammad, a tunnel owner who has made millions from the industry. "It's not just me suffering. It's everyone in this business. ... No one knows what will happen to us."

Once the lifeline of the coastal enclave's economy, tunnels were set up as a workaround to the embargo Israel imposed after the Islamist group Hamas seized control of Gaza in 2007. At the industry's zenith in 2008 and 2009, approximately a thousand subterranean passageways snaked beneath the border to Egypt, transporting everything from potato chips to cars to weapons.

The resilient industry survived Israeli bombings, Egyptian gassing, and flooding. Days after the end of Israel's 22-day offensive in January 2009, activity in the tunnel zone was frenzied--generators hummed, pulleys screeched and loading trucks banged. Most recently, smugglers drilled through the steel subterranean wall Egypt began to construct last December.

Today, though, the tunnel district is eerily silent. Market traders have either bought Israeli or stalled orders in anticipation of new goods from the Jewish state. An estimated 10 percent of the tunnels are still operating, but even those work sporadically.

Most tunnels are concentrated about half a mile from the Egyptian border, in an area five miles long and less than two miles wide. They open up in neat rows, shaded by white and black plastic tents.

Abu Saber's tunnel is at the front line, closest to the Egyptian border. Rolls of smuggled iron sheet are stacked neatly at the passageway's entrance. The haul is Saber's first shipment in 10 days.

The sandy floor of his tunnel slopes downward, easing into the ground. Buttressed inside by iron walls, the tunnel is about five feet wide and high enough to walk only slightly hunched. Inside, it's muggy and dank, pungent with the smell of earth and human sweat.

Before the blockade was eased, Saber's tunnel, like many others, operated 24 hours a day, seven days a week and employed 10-12 people for each 12-hour shift, carting everything from chocolate to refrigerators. Now, Saber says, he's barely making enough hauling iron, steel, and ceramics--products that remain embargoed. And even profits on those have dropped dramatically.

"Before one ton of iron sold for $400 [U.S.], now it goes for between $150 and $200. These prices are not good enough for labor and expenses," Abu Saber laments.

Tunnel proprietorship costs. Owners say they spent between $150,000 and $500,000 to construct a tunnel and then another $2,600 to the local municipality for a license. Each month, $300 goes to electricity and water. They pay labor about $25 per shift. Maintenance adds up to between $2,000 and $3,000 a month. There are tunnel courts where laborers can take their employers if they don't pay salaries.

"The municipality treats the tunnels as a priority," says Issa El Nashar, mayor of Rafah City. "Like any other industry, it needs services and it needs facilities." The municipality provides power and water to the tunnels. Meanwhile, Hamas taxes cigarettes and fuel.