In Politics, Sometimes The Facts Don't Matter

_
_ Posts: 6,657
edited July 2010 in A Moving Train
New research suggests that misinformed people rarely change their minds when presented with the facts -- and often become even more attached to their beliefs. The finding raises questions about a key principle of a strong democracy: that a well-informed electorate is best.

Interesting story to read and/or listen to. They use many of the things we discuss around here as examples.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... 74&ps=cprs
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    scb wrote:
    New research suggests that misinformed people rarely change their minds when presented with the facts -- and often become even more attached to their beliefs. The finding raises questions about a key principle of a strong democracy: that a well-informed electorate is best.

    Interesting story to read and/or listen to. They use many of the things we discuss around here as examples.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... 74&ps=cprs
    ...
    Truthiness.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,442
    facts don't matter when we have such an informed and engaged electorate in this country.....







    :mrgreen:


    we can't let facts get in the way of our opinions, which are always correct, right??? :)
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • markin ball
    markin ball Posts: 1,076
    I still think people listen to reason and change their minds. I don't care what it says. :D
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."

    "With our thoughts we make the world"
  • OutOfBreath
    OutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    Maybe I'm a cynic, but I'll say that in politics, truth never matters, and never have. Politics is all about perceptions and appearances. Sadly.

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    It's not just the misinformed. I think they are a small part of the problem. It's the outright corruption and deceitfulness that demonstrate that the truth doesn't matter in politics whatsoever.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    Says the board that holds the exact same opinion as Eddie Vedder, people that form their own opinion.
    I think people are foolish to hold themsevles to a label. Outofbreath is right its all about perception, there should be no reason
    That someone would vote or support sara palin.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    this is true ... simply proven by the effectiveness of negative ads and attack campaigns on the electorate ... long been established ...
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,889
    polaris_x wrote:
    this is true ... simply proven by the effectiveness of negative ads and attack campaigns on the electorate ... long been established ...

    I like negative ads so long as they are truthful and not sensationalized....unfortunately, that seems to be most of them. I never really understood how specifically pointing out the failures of your opponent is a bad thing to do.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • arq
    arq Posts: 8,101
    People only believes what they want to believe... That's what Jesus wants them to believe.
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
    Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    cincybearcat wrote:
    I like negative ads so long as they are truthful and not sensationalized....unfortunately, that seems to be most of them. I never really understood how specifically pointing out the failures of your opponent is a bad thing to do.

    the thing with negative ads that have some semblance of truth is that its always distorted to some degree to suit an agenda ... it in essence is like marketing of crap food products as good for you ... it's all a sham and there is never any objectivity ...

    it depends on what your end goal is i suppose ... if ultimately, it is to see one side win over the other - then i suppose you are right ... i would rather see a political debate based on ideas and transparency ... these days - rarely do the issues get covered ... people only care about sound bites ... and catchphrases ...
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,889
    polaris_x wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    I like negative ads so long as they are truthful and not sensationalized....unfortunately, that seems to be most of them. I never really understood how specifically pointing out the failures of your opponent is a bad thing to do.

    the thing with negative ads that have some semblance of truth is that its always distorted to some degree to suit an agenda ... it in essence is like marketing of crap food products as good for you ... it's all a sham and there is never any objectivity ...

    it depends on what your end goal is i suppose ... if ultimately, it is to see one side win over the other - then i suppose you are right ... i would rather see a political debate based on ideas and transparency ... these days - rarely do the issues get covered ... people only care about sound bites ... and catchphrases ...


    DOn't get me wrong, I agree that most negative ads are not helpful because they are sensationalized.

    But I don't agree with you that negative ads (if proper) are only good to see one side WIN over the other. I think they can help educate people on the differences so they can make a better choice. Of course, maybe my definition of a negative ad isn't correct. But if I ever ran a campaign (which I won't) I would certainly use "negative ads" highlighting my opponents failures compared with my positions. It seems pretty standard to me.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    cincybearcat wrote:
    DOn't get me wrong, I agree that most negative ads are not helpful because they are sensationalized.

    But I don't agree with you that negative ads (if proper) are only good to see one side WIN over the other. I think they can help educate people on the differences so they can make a better choice. Of course, maybe my definition of a negative ad isn't correct. But if I ever ran a campaign (which I won't) I would certainly use "negative ads" highlighting my opponents failures compared with my positions. It seems pretty standard to me.

    yeah ... there are the "negative ads" like - my opponent wears diapers at night and then there are the "negative ads" like - my opponent believes in supports the oil industry ... ;)
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    I think that facts absolutely matter. The problem is that it has become hard as hell to actually find "facts". With the exception of the overly informed members of this forum ;) , I would say that the majority of people get their facts from corporate media outlets with agendas. The full truth is rarely fed without nasty side dishes of distortion and a desert to sweeten things up a little. Where do you get your facts?
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,889
    polaris_x wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    DOn't get me wrong, I agree that most negative ads are not helpful because they are sensationalized.

    But I don't agree with you that negative ads (if proper) are only good to see one side WIN over the other. I think they can help educate people on the differences so they can make a better choice. Of course, maybe my definition of a negative ad isn't correct. But if I ever ran a campaign (which I won't) I would certainly use "negative ads" highlighting my opponents failures compared with my positions. It seems pretty standard to me.

    yeah ... there are the "negative ads" like - my opponent wears diapers at night and then there are the "negative ads" like - my opponent believes in supports the oil industry ... ;)


    Yep, and thank god for that. Without a quality negative ad like that I might end up voting for the wrong candidate. I mean, who wants your representative in congress to have an accident? He/she may miss an important vote? Personally, I think any candidate with a Diaper Champ in their office should be voted out immediately.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    markin ball wrote:
    I still think people listen to reason and change their minds. I don't care what it says. :D

    :lol::lol:
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    PJPOWER wrote:
    I think that facts absolutely matter. The problem is that it has become hard as hell to actually find "facts". With the exception of the overly informed members of this forum ;) , I would say that the majority of people get their facts from corporate media outlets with agendas. The full truth is rarely fed without nasty side dishes of distortion and a desert to sweeten things up a little. Where do you get your facts?

    I get my facts from the overly-informed members of this forum. ;) The only news source I use regularly is NPR. But when it really comes down to it, I try to find primary sources. (Or was that a rhetorical question?)
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,889
    scb wrote:

    I get my facts from the overly-informed members of this forum. ;) The only news source I use regularly is NPR. But when it really comes down to it, I try to find primary sources. (Or was that a rhetorical question?)

    You're welcome.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    cincybearcat wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    this is true ... simply proven by the effectiveness of negative ads and attack campaigns on the electorate ... long been established ...

    I like negative ads so long as they are truthful and not sensationalized....unfortunately, that seems to be most of them. I never really understood how specifically pointing out the failures of your opponent is a bad thing to do.
    ...
    The problem is... truth and political campaigning typically share nothing in common.
    And yes, exposing the other candidate's skeletons in their closets are helpful... only if there is truth to back it.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • dasvidana
    dasvidana Grand Junction CO Posts: 1,356
    I think in politics, the facts rarely matter. What matters is spin. For those interested, watch the documentary "The Boogie Man." It's about Lee Atwater and how his techniques resulted in changes in public opinion......Lee Atwater made Karl Rove look like a preschooler. It's on youtube if you're interested.
    It's nice to be nice to the nice.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    dasvidana wrote:
    I think in politics, the facts rarely matter. What matters is spin. For those interested, watch the documentary "The Boogie Man." It's about Lee Atwater and how his techniques resulted in changes in public opinion......Lee Atwater made Karl Rove look like a preschooler. It's on youtube if you're interested.

    Thanks, I'll have to check that out. Outfoxed is another great documentary about how facts don't matter.

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