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Rape - Is the woman partially to blame?

__ Posts: 6,651
edited July 2010 in A Moving Train
Looks like folks in Scotland think she's not, and they've created an ad to spread the word:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scot ... 435567.stm
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  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Who voted in that poll... the rapists? (insert Alex Trebek joke here).
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    It found that 23% of people thought a woman was partly responsible for a rape if she was drunk at the time of the attack.

    A total of 17% thought the woman bore some responsibility if she was wearing revealing clothing.

    :?

    no means no.
    it's really not a difficult concept to grasp.
  • BinauralJamBinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    A Women is never responsible, however i do want to make an observation, today in Manhatten i walking to my place of food for lunch and there was 4, 16 or 17 year old girls in front of me ALL w/ skirts so short, that another Inch, and i would have scene everything. WTF if i was a dad i would ... nevermind , but it's not a Good reaction.
  • marcosmarcos Posts: 2,112
    NEVER
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    It is never the woman's fault. No means "NO!". Stupidity does not trump crime.
    A lot of talk came out when Mike Tyson raped that girl in his hotel room. Some people actually blamed HER for the attack. But, think of it this way... just because you are stupid enough to pin a 100 dollar bill to your lapel and walk through the worst part of Watts... doesn't excuse someone for shooting you and taking it... right? Yeah, stupidity... but is that an excuse for someone to commit a crime against you? No, it isn't.
    ...
    And a semi-related story... Back in the 80s, we'd go to a bar for happy hour after work. One time, a gal came strutting past us wearing one of those skin tight body stockings. So, every one of us guys would stop... turn and stare at her as she passed... because we were red-blooded (a.k.a. Horny) guys in a bar where a gal was wearing something we didn't need X-ray vision to see through. After about 3 passes... she stops and says something to the one guy she shouldn't have said anything to... my co-worker, Vic. She says, rather smuggly, "What the hell are you looking at?" Vic says, "Your pussy, what the hell do you think we're looking at?"
    Stupid of her, yes... and Vic was right.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
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  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,158
    "Let me think about this question before answering."
    ben-roethlisberger-drunk-2.jpg
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  • Dirtie_FrankDirtie_Frank Posts: 1,348
    While I feel for the true rape vicitims. The ones that make it hard for them are the woman that lie about being raped. Like in the Duke lacrosse case. Those are the people that I think make it more difficult for the woman that are afraid of comming out against the rapist. No means no.
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  • arqarq Posts: 8,049
    No means NO!
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
    Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
  • acoustic guyacoustic guy Posts: 3,770
    Okay....No DOES mean NO...
    And there are different kinds of rape. In a park while jogging or at a frat party drunk.

    IMO the problem at lets say a frat party is that sometimes a woman will hook up with a guy while drunk thinking its just a hook up and not sex. It dangerous for a naive girl to do this with some drunk asshole who is going into it thinking they are alone together just bc they are gonna have sex. MIXED SIGNALS. Thats when the dumbass guy might think she is being a tease and then take it further then the girl wants it to..
    Horrible.
    No means no no matter how far you take it. The minute she says no then its over. But...when drinking is involved then guys can be morons...
    Just my 2...

    I rememebr one time long ago this girl and I were flirting on the phone, she told me that her nipples r pierced and she had a dream about us n wants to show me what we did in the dream etc...
    We got together the next night and I was ready for sex cause thats what we were talking about.
    Well....when I made the moves she said no and would not take it to far...WTF??? MIXED SIGNALS! If I can then see how it could escalate from there. I would never ever force a woman but I can see the situation happen easly...stupid girl lol
    Get em a Body Bag Yeeeeeaaaaa!
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  • PureandEasyPureandEasy Posts: 5,811
    Cosmo wrote:
    It is never the woman's fault. No means "NO!". Stupidity does not trump crime.
    A lot of talk came out when Mike Tyson raped that girl in his hotel room. Some people actually blamed HER for the attack. But, think of it this way... just because you are stupid enough to pin a 100 dollar bill to your lapel and walk through the worst part of Watts... doesn't excuse someone for shooting you and taking it... right? Yeah, stupidity... but is that an excuse for someone to commit a crime against you? No, it isn't.
    ...
    And a semi-related story... Back in the 80s, we'd go to a bar for happy hour after work. One time, a gal came strutting past us wearing one of those skin tight body stockings. So, every one of us guys would stop... turn and stare at her as she passed... because we were red-blooded (a.k.a. Horny) guys in a bar where a gal was wearing something we didn't need X-ray vision to see through. After about 3 passes... she stops and says something to the one guy she shouldn't have said anything to... my co-worker, Vic. She says, rather smuggly, "What the hell are you looking at?" Vic says, "Your pussy, what the hell do you think we're looking at?"
    Stupid of her, yes... and Vic was right.

    always the voice of reason, you are100% correct Cosmo

    sure, people put themselves in bad situations but it doesn't open the door for someone to assault them
    Don't come closer or I'll have to go
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    There are not different kinds of rape. Unless you count statutory.
    Drunk frat boy or some creep hiding in the woods = same shit.
    Doesn't matter what she's wearing, what she did in the lead up to shooting him down, what signals she sends, what situation she put herself in, whether or not alcohol is involved, or her sexual history. No means no is the end of the story! Anything else is an excuse, a justification.
    Shocking to hear how people can 'see how it happens'. Isn't that pretty much sympathizing with a rapist? Some guys make it sound like a woman can't change her mind. Always amazes me how upset guys get over blue balls. whatever. deal with it. She has no obligation to get you off.
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    Drowned Out wrote:
    Always amazes me how upset guys get over blue balls. whatever. deal with it. She has no obligation to get you off.

    Thank you! I think I'm gonna make a shirt with your words of wisdom: I have no obligation to get you off. :D

    I think some guys would be really surprised, though, at what some other guys think women owe them and what they get upset about - and every guy I knew who was this way really thought he wasn't. In this way I can see how rape happens. I think there are plenty of rapist who really believe they're not rapists because they didn't jump out of the bushes and attack a woman or because they eventually "convinced" her to stop saying no. (And of course I think the media and socialized gender roles contribute heavily to this, but I'll try to refrain.)

    What did everyone think of the ad?
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    scb wrote:
    Drowned Out wrote:
    Always amazes me how upset guys get over blue balls. whatever. deal with it. She has no obligation to get you off.

    Thank you! I think I'm gonna make a shirt with your words of wisdom: I have no obligation to get you off. :D

    The ironic thing is, a lot of guys would see that shirt, with the sexual connotations, as an invitation to try and get with you :D

    (couldn't view the ad at work)
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    Drowned Out wrote:
    scb wrote:
    Drowned Out wrote:
    Always amazes me how upset guys get over blue balls. whatever. deal with it. She has no obligation to get you off.

    Thank you! I think I'm gonna make a shirt with your words of wisdom: I have no obligation to get you off. :D

    The ironic thing is, a lot of guys would see that shirt, with the sexual connotations, as an invitation to try and get with you :D

    (couldn't view the ad at work)

    Yeah, good point. I learned in college that as soon as you tell a guy you're never going to sleep with him he takes that as a challenge. Can't win, I guess. If you don't say you're not planning to sleep with someone, they'll accuse you of leading them on. (DISCLAIMER: This does not apply to all men.)
  • puremagicpuremagic Posts: 1,907
    [quote="scb What did everyone think of the ad?[/quote]



    My initial opinion is that your male population will see this ad and think - not only did she know what could happen, she wanted it to happen. The ad is too poorly constructed to get the point across that No Means No.

    It does nothing to dispel the fact that a woman is partially the blame for her getting raped because the message of the girl ‘asking for it’ has already been planted.

    The ad flashes to the girl in the bar wearing a low cut blouse and a blue mini skirt. Two guys see her and one said, she’s asking for it.

    Then the ad flashes back to the girl, earlier that day in a department store where she picks out the two miniskirts a) pink one and b) the blue one blue one.

    -the clerk asks if she can help her and the girl replies – I want to get raped and I need a skirt that encourages a guy to have sex with me against my will.

    -the clerk tells her to get the blue one.

    The girl then says, as if.

    Then the ad flashes to -No one asks to get Raped. Ever- .


    The purpose of the ad got lost because it became a story instead of a message.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • ClaireackClaireack Posts: 13,561
    I saw the add on the telly the other night and thought it was pretty good, the fact that they're tacking the subject via an advert is pretty damn amazing to be honest.
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  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    a rapist who keeps up his sick fucking game time after time should be executed.
    if a father, brother, or friend, or anyone for that matter offs a rapist, too bad.
    it's the ending for them.
    they made terrible judgement and are now in a thin cedar box.
    fuck 'em.

    wait a minute... this thread isn't the death penalty thread? :?
    um,,,,, sorry.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • BinauralJamBinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    chadwick wrote:
    a rapist who keeps up his sick fucking game time after time should be executed.
    if a father, brother, or friend, or anyone for that matter offs a rapist, too bad.
    it's the ending for them.
    they made terrible judgement and are now in a thin cedar box.
    fuck 'em.

    wait a minute... this thread isn't the death penalty thread? :?
    um,,,,, sorry.

    It's o.k Chad i have the same reaction, i wana kill all the bad people to. somehow, in some people's minds that ends up making us the bad guys. :lol: there's some strange ones out there.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Drowned Out wrote:
    There are not different kinds of rape. Unless you count statutory.
    Drunk frat boy or some creep hiding in the woods = same shit.
    Doesn't matter what she's wearing, what she did in the lead up to shooting him down, what signals she sends, what situation she put herself in, whether or not alcohol is involved, or her sexual history. No means no is the end of the story! Anything else is an excuse, a justification.
    Shocking to hear how people can 'see how it happens'. Isn't that pretty much sympathizing with a rapist? Some guys make it sound like a woman can't change her mind. Always amazes me how upset guys get over blue balls. whatever. deal with it. She has no obligation to get you off.
    ...
    Compeletly agree.... Rape is a crime... a crime is a crime.
    It'd be like a car jacker making the excuse that your driving around in a nice car is an invitation to car-jack you... or to steal your car. Wearing a nice watch.. well, you're just asking for someone to rob you of it. Are you partially to blame by driving a nice car... or wearing an expensive watch? NO... Car-jacking, auto theft and robbery are crimes... you don't get to use excuses.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    Sometimes I love some of you men and your analogies.
  • matabelematabele Posts: 277
    .[/quote]
    ...
    Compeletly agree.... Rape is a crime... a crime is a crime.
    It'd be like a car jacker making the excuse that your driving around in a nice car is an invitation to car-jack you... or to steal your car. Wearing a nice watch.. well, you're just asking for someone to rob you of it. Are you partially to blame by driving a nice car... or wearing an expensive watch? NO... Car-jacking, auto theft and robbery are crimes... you don't get to use excuses.[/quote]

    A major factor is alcohol, many men revert to their cave man days when out of it, I'm sure there are studies out there on crimes committed when sober vs drunk.
    I was dealing with some French students who had come to England to study and after they had been out on the town a few times I asked them what they thought of the English girls, "if they dressed like that in France they would get raped" was the answer.
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    i believe fully that a woman should be able to wear clothing as she wishes.
    let's face it, women are the best, the greatest.
    i enjoy them immensely and i vote for their badassness.
    allow me to elaborate.
    fucked up dog shit fuckers should be harmed when they hurt chics.
    don't hurt women and you won't get smashed in the face with a blunt object.
    chics that play games are bullshit.

    why am i so amazing? :twisted:
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    chadwick wrote:
    i believe fully that a woman should be able to wear clothing as she wishes.
    let's face it, women are the best, the greatest.
    i enjoy them immensely and i vote for their badassness.
    allow me to elaborate.
    fucked up dog shit fuckers should be harmed when they hurt chics.
    don't hurt women and you won't get smashed in the face with a blunt object.
    chics that play games are bullshit.

    why am i so amazing? :twisted:

    because you seem to be living only in your own mind atm. *shrugs*
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
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  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    catefrances wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    i believe fully that a woman should be able to wear clothing as she wishes.
    let's face it, women are the best, the greatest.
    i enjoy them immensely and i vote for their badassness.
    allow me to elaborate.
    fucked up dog shit fuckers should be harmed when they hurt chics.
    don't hurt women and you won't get smashed in the face with a blunt object.
    chics that play games are bullshit.

    why am i so amazing? :twisted:

    because you seem to be living only in your own mind atm. *shrugs*
    that's several
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • BinauralJamBinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    I saw an ad for a sick twisted show recently, that's stuck with me. A women pretends to be far drunker than she is and then they send in a guy to pick her up and he says lets go back to my hotel room, it's just a few blocks from here. i think it's called "What would you do"? they then film this and depending on the other bar attendents or bartender actions they come in ask "How could you let her leave w/ guy when she was clearly drunk and out of it?" this kind of made me sick, you have to be responsable for your own actions and not depend on everyday people to be a hero, so what? they were expecting the bartender to intervene, get his ass kicked to protect the virtue of this cleary stupid ass girl? i guess my point is at what point do you look at the women and say, the worlds fucked up, don't put yourself in stupid situtations, and if you do don't blame me for not saving you. i don't know, it's just a stupid dumb ass show, manipulating people, emotions and situtions.
    I mean who's to say that she didn't want to go to the guys hotel room, and she wen't to the bar looking for excatly that.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    KO282453 wrote:
    I saw an ad for a sick twisted show recently, that's stuck with me. A women pretends to be far drunker than she is and then they send in a guy to pick her up and he says lets go back to my hotel room, it's just a few blocks from here. i think it's called "What would you do"? they then film this and depending on the other bar attendents or bartender actions they come in ask "How could you let her leave w/ guy when she was clearly drunk and out of it?" this kind of made me sick, you have to be responsable for your own actions and not depend on everyday people to be a hero, so what? they were expecting the bartender to intervene, get his ass kicked to protect the virtue of this cleary stupid ass girl? i guess my point is at what point do you look at the women and say, the worlds fucked up, don't put yourself in stupid situtations, and if you do don't blame me for not saving you. i don't know, it's just a stupid dumb ass show, manipulating people, emotions and situtions.
    I mean who's to say that she didn't want to go to the guys hotel room, and she wen't to the bar looking for excatly that.

    you said... a woman PRETENDS to be far drunker.. so im thinking whats up with that for starters.

    and secondly the producers of this show should be hauled over the coals for absolute inappropriateness. this is not entertainment. its one of thsoe stupid shows where we all can sit back in judgement and make ourselves feel better that wed make better choices than those were watching. total bollocks.

    i am so fucking tired of reality shows masquerading as entertainment. what the hell is wrong with the world??
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • BinauralJamBinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    ya the women was part of the show, but the bartender didn't know.
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    KO282453 wrote:
    I saw an ad for a sick twisted show recently, that's stuck with me. A women pretends to be far drunker than she is and then they send in a guy to pick her up and he says lets go back to my hotel room, it's just a few blocks from here. i think it's called "What would you do"? they then film this and depending on the other bar attendents or bartender actions they come in ask "How could you let her leave w/ guy when she was clearly drunk and out of it?" this kind of made me sick, you have to be responsable for your own actions and not depend on everyday people to be a hero, so what? they were expecting the bartender to intervene, get his ass kicked to protect the virtue of this cleary stupid ass girl? i guess my point is at what point do you look at the women and say, the worlds fucked up, don't put yourself in stupid situtations, and if you do don't blame me for not saving you. i don't know, it's just a stupid dumb ass show, manipulating people, emotions and situtions. I mean who's to say that she didn't want to go to the guys hotel room, and she wen't to the bar looking for excatly that.

    What if a girl is running alone at night in Central Park or some such place ("stupid ass girl" who put herself in a stupid situation, right?) and someone jumps out and attacks her in front of you? Do you look at the woman and say, "the world's fucked up, don't put yourself in stupid situtations, and if you do don't blame me for not saving you"?
  • BinauralJamBinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    pretty much, i mean i wouldn't be alone at night in central park.
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    KO282453 wrote:
    pretty much, i mean i wouldn't be alone at night in central park.

    So does that mean you think she's partially to blame?
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