PJ without the vocals...

Kanye East

DewieCox wrote:

I think Stone is the better technical guitarist.

Speed isn't technical.

Stuff that Stone writes/play has alot more musical depth than what Mike and Eddie play. His chord choices are almost always a little funky. He plays more in the pocket. His solos always have twice the dynamic sexiness of a Mike solo. When there's something kinda off or strange about the guitar in a song, it's Stone.

Jeff is solid, but he blends in soo much. I agree he doesn't stand out as much as Flea or Entwistle, and I would even go a step further and say John Paul Jones. Very little flash comin from Jeff, but always tasty.

Couldnt have said it better myself.

fox_mulderX

Kanye East wrote:

DewieCox wrote:

I think Stone is the better technical guitarist.

Speed isn't technical.

Stuff that Stone writes/play has alot more musical depth than what Mike and Eddie play. His chord choices are almost always a little funky. He plays more in the pocket. His solos always have twice the dynamic sexiness of a Mike solo. When there's something kinda off or strange about the guitar in a song, it's Stone.

Jeff is solid, but he blends in soo much. I agree he doesn't stand out as much as Flea or Entwistle, and I would even go a step further and say John Paul Jones. Very little flash comin from Jeff, but always tasty.

Couldnt have said it better myself.

yup

mcameronrocks

Kanye East wrote:

DewieCox wrote:

I think Stone is the better technical guitarist.

Speed isn't technical.

Stuff that Stone writes/play has alot more musical depth than what Mike and Eddie play. His chord choices are almost always a little funky. He plays more in the pocket. His solos always have twice the dynamic sexiness of a Mike solo. When there's something kinda off or strange about the guitar in a song, it's Stone.

Jeff is solid, but he blends in soo much. I agree he doesn't stand out as much as Flea or Entwistle, and I would even go a step further and say John Paul Jones. Very little flash comin from Jeff, but always tasty.

Couldnt have said it better myself.

This is a interesting response to my post. My original post was making the observation that it would be awesome if there were any outtakes or boots of just the instrumentals of their studio tracks. It somehow turned into "whos a better guitar player" and/or "is Stone and Jeff talented". Good music is good music.

Soooooo....does anyone know if there are any outtakes or boots of just their instrumentals?

hopethatuchoke

fox_mulderX wrote:

hopethatuchoke wrote:

john frusciante is a great rhythm player, but he can't solo for shit so he doesn't stand out as exceptional. johnny greenwood is great, but he's no better than stone or mike.

And Stone CAN solo for shit? Do the Evolution is the only one I can think of and it's basically MJ's Beat It.

And a story about Johnny vs. Jeff and Stone. I was at the Tibetian Freedom Concert in 1998. First time seeing Pearl Jam after being into them since the 5th grade. Also first time seeing Radiohead....up until that point I had only known them for Creep. Pearl Jam was fantastic but Radiohead blew me the fuck away....highlight being Johnny playing the keyboard with the top of his guitar WHILE playing the guitar at the same time. The sounds he is able to produce are phenomenal. Their other guitarist Ed is pretty much useless...one might say the Boom of the band Colin their bassist is nothing special either. I literally came home from DC the next day and bought all of their albums. So to me, a moment like that from 12 years ago standing out still to this day says to me he is a better guitarist. But that's just me.

StoneAment

I can't believe I'm having to defend Jeff on a PJ board. JEFF IS AMAZING! The only bassist I'd put before him is Geddy Lee. Ok, the PJ sound doesn't have pumping bass, but that doesn't mean he doesn't contribute or doesn't have talent. Just look at his repertoire of instruments, look at the songs he's written. Flea stands out because of the funky heavy bass style of the Chilli's, Jeff tends to be more at the back, but he's solid. PJ songs tend to have real great rhythm, they hit and don't waffle around it's because they have a great rhythm section - IT'S BECAUSE OF JEFF.

As Jack Bruce once said "the prime object of the bass is to make everyone else sound better than they actually are" and Jeff makes PJ sound fucking amazing.

mcameronrocks

StoneAment wrote:

I can't believe I'm having to defend Jeff on a PJ board. JEFF IS AMAZING! The only bassist I'd put before him is Geddy Lee. Ok, the PJ sound doesn't have pumping bass, but that doesn't mean he doesn't contribute or doesn't have talent. Just look at his repertoire of instruments, look at the songs he's written. Flea stands out because of the funky heavy bass style of the Chilli's, Jeff tends to be more at the back, but he's solid. PJ songs tend to have real great rhythm, they hit and don't waffle around it's because they have a great rhythm section - IT'S BECAUSE OF JEFF.

As Jack Bruce once said "the prime object of the bass is to make everyone else sound better than they actually are" and Jeff makes PJ sound fucking amazing.

Interesting quote from Jack Bruce. Good pull.

Ive been into PJ since 92. I always thought Jeff was good, but not incredible. Then I saw the Who tribute on VH1. Once I saw him rip up that version with that bass solo...he moved up there with some of the best IMO after that performance.

Pearl James

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3SFrSjxikk


Alive guitar track

mcameronrocks

Pearl James wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3SFrSjxikk


Alive guitar track

Very cool. Thx. How about with everything mixed(except vocals)?

fox_mulderX

hopethatuchoke wrote:

fox_mulderX wrote:

hopethatuchoke wrote:

john frusciante is a great rhythm player, but he can't solo for shit so he doesn't stand out as exceptional. johnny greenwood is great, but he's no better than stone or mike.

And Stone CAN solo for shit? Do the Evolution is the only one I can think of and it's basically MJ's Beat It.

And a story about Johnny vs. Jeff and Stone. I was at the Tibetian Freedom Concert in 1998. First time seeing Pearl Jam after being into them since the 5th grade. Also first time seeing Radiohead....up until that point I had only known them for Creep. Pearl Jam was fantastic but Radiohead blew me the fuck away....highlight being Johnny playing the keyboard with the top of his guitar WHILE playing the guitar at the same time. The sounds he is able to produce are phenomenal. Their other guitarist Ed is pretty much useless...one might say the Boom of the band Colin their bassist is nothing special either. I literally came home from DC the next day and bought all of their albums. So to me, a moment like that from 12 years ago standing out still to this day says to me he is a better guitarist. But that's just me.

i'm pretty sure stone did every solo on yield.. mike might have done one or two. stone also did not for you. so, yes, stone can solo. and there is a solo in do the evolution but it's not what you're thinking of... it starts at 2:48.

Spiritual_Chaos

I dig Stones playinng more than Mike. i mean... aren't like 50% of Mikes solos sort of... cheesy?

Brain of W.M.A

some interesting posts here, but to be honest, everyone in this band is very talented and they've been around for as long as they have because they gel together. jeff could go to a different band that the bass sticks out and be a beast, but for now he plays in pearl jam, and we shouldn't question the bands talent when the music they make is amazing.

mca47

DewieCox wrote:

I think Stone is the better technical guitarist.

Speed isn't technical.

Stuff that Stone writes/play has alot more musical depth than what Mike and Eddie play. His chord choices are almost always a little funky. He plays more in the pocket. His solos always have twice the dynamic sexiness of a Mike solo. When there's something kinda off or strange about the guitar in a song, it's Stone.

Jeff is solid, but he blends in soo much. I agree he doesn't stand out as much as Flea or Entwistle, and I would even go a step further and say John Paul Jones. Very little flash comin from Jeff, but always tasty.

Exactly!

rrivers

Anyone who can come up with a riff like "Alive" is talented.
Anyone who can write the music of "Jeremy" is talented.

mca47

Spiritual_Chaos wrote:

I dig Stones playinng more than Mike. i mean... aren't like 50% of Mikes solos sort of... cheesy?

As a guitarist myself, I can I find Stone's work to be much more creative and which has more stylistic characteristics.

I'm not bashing Mike at all when I say this, but he really doesn't stand up to the guitar greats (living or dead). There is no question the guy can play a fast solo, but if you break it down and examine what he's playing...it's all really basic stuff. Mike is really in love with his basic "box" blues scales. If you look at his solos for many of the songs he plays, they are essentially all in the same basic blues scale form, and rarely does he deviate from the main key of the tune. He plays up and down approx 3 boxes for most of his solo work.
Don't get me wrong, I will never be able to hit those scales at the speed he does, but I believe most guitarists will agree what he's doing isn't very "ground breaking".

Where PJ really shines, is their ability to play well off eachother. Granted, they don't have the "depth" of many bands, but they seem to know their parts and their roles extremely well...and that comes out in the live setting really well.

Just my 2.

Lone Wolf

mca47 wrote:

They def play well together, but there are guitarists/musicians out there now (some famous and some not) who are far more talented.

There are....but they rarely sound as good as PJ.....It´s an awesome combination ....

pandora

maybe Pearl Jam elevator music someday

PJFAN13

...is like the Last Supper without Jesus

mcameronrocks

mca47 wrote:

Spiritual_Chaos wrote:

I dig Stones playinng more than Mike. i mean... aren't like 50% of Mikes solos sort of... cheesy?

As a guitarist myself, I can I find Stone's work to be much more creative and which has more stylistic characteristics.

I'm not bashing Mike at all when I say this, but he really doesn't stand up to the guitar greats (living or dead). There is no question the guy can play a fast solo, but if you break it down and examine what he's playing...it's all really basic stuff. Mike is really in love with his basic "box" blues scales. If you look at his solos for many of the songs he plays, they are essentially all in the same basic blues scale form, and rarely does he deviate from the main key of the tune. He plays up and down approx 3 boxes for most of his solo work.
Don't get me wrong, I will never be able to hit those scales at the speed he does, but I believe most guitarists will agree what he's doing isn't very "ground breaking".

Where PJ really shines, is their ability to play well off eachother. Granted, they don't have the "depth" of many bands, but they seem to know their parts and their roles extremely well...and that comes out in the live setting really well.

Just my 2.

Mike and Stone are both very talented players. To decide which one is better is a dumb argument as they both serve different purposes in the band and have completely different styles. This is why they compliment each other so well.

I agree with you about Mike though. Most of Mikes solo's sound very, very similiar. As a guitar player myself, He does tend to stay in the "box" you speak of. Granted, I cannot play nearly as fast as Mike so I certainly don't have a soap box anywhere nearby.

kenny olav

I would love it if the band came up with some big instrumentals! Other than Brother w/o vocals, they don't have any, do they? I bet they could come up with something that kicks everyone's ass and become a concert standard. Make it some kind of long jam, so they don't have to play Even Flow or Porch every night to give Eddie his much needed break from singing. Not that I can or should tell Pearl Jam what to do, but that's what I would do.

As for the talent debate... Stone is the fucking Man and you gotta love all the different ways he rips it up on DTE, but only Mike can shred my soul apart and put it back together again within a single guitar solo.

I'm so glad Matt is with Pearl Jam. He is far and away their best drummer. He brings power and finesse. He's a heavy metal jazzman and his drumming is just the fucking balls. The fucking balls. You haven't heard that phrase since 1998, but I said it anyway. Remember Corduroy before Matt? Ha. He sounds better every year, and he keeps surprising me. Every project he's ever been in is gold. I really hope the Wellwater Conspiracy tour again.

rrivers

mca47 wrote:

Spiritual_Chaos wrote:

As a guitarist myself, I can I find Stone's work to be much more creative and which has more stylistic characteristics.

I'm not bashing Mike at all when I say this, but he really doesn't stand up to the guitar greats (living or dead). There is no question the guy can play a fast solo, but if you break it down and examine what he's playing...it's all really basic stuff. Mike is really in love with his basic "box" blues scales. If you look at his solos for many of the songs he plays, they are essentially all in the same basic blues scale form, and rarely does he deviate from the main key of the tune. He plays up and down approx 3 boxes for most of his solo work.
Don't get me wrong, I will never be able to hit those scales at the speed he does, but I believe most guitarists will agree what he's doing isn't very "ground breaking".

Where PJ really shines, is their ability to play well off eachother. Granted, they don't have the "depth" of many bands, but they seem to know their parts and their roles extremely well...and that comes out in the live setting really well.

Just my 2.

How music sounds and makes you feel is much more important than how difficult it is for the performer to make the music.

Note: this is not a dig at you, mca47, just making a point I think you would agree with. Thanks for the good information. As someone with very limited musical knowledge it was very interesting.