Question for you poets

eyedclaar

After reading The End by our friend here and reading people's responses, I am left with a question. Nice piece, by the way, lettingo. It seems most folks write straight from their heart dealing with very personal stuff. Is that the case? With me, maybe the first draft of something has more truth/personal feeling in it than what I share. I certainly don't let the truth get in the way of good writing. Hell, some if it is straight up fiction. Also, I edit the fuck out of my poems, constantly tweaking one word or image or line break to create something bigger and more meaningful than what I started. Basically, when finished, I have removed myself and simply focus on the speaker. Some of my stuff is barbaric and sometimes I hear people wonder how I can think the way I do and I'm always like, I think you are confusing me with the speaker/voice of this piece.

What say you writers?

the wolf

For me it really depends on the piece. As of late it's way more straight from the heart, and very little is done to it in the form of editing. Other times I too edit the hell out of it to remove myself from it.
I hate the editing process though, so I usually let someting live in my head for a bit before actually writing. That way I don't feel the need to edit much because I've worked certain things out before ever "writing" it.

I'm not a big fan of editing poetry. Now, when I write music and lyrics, its a different story. And forget about it when it comes time to mixing. I used to become a mad scientist when it came to mixing the song. What I would end with, would sound nothing like what I started with. The change in the song would be drastic at times.

I'm now going back the other way on that too. What I record, is really close to the final version.

Sorry, this is no help at all really. I'm all over the place I guess.

oh, and to answer the question, there are times for sure that I put myself in someone else's shoes, and it becomes fiction.

chadwick

writing is its own animal housed within one's being.
however, the beast cannot ever be controlled.
it is a mystical entity like energy that comes and goes with its own freewill.
one can harness this gift but never own it.
it is a Muse, it is breath, it is blood.
a tree, a piece of paper while spilling ink, black or blue.
every single vision is a life unto the seer.

to be continued... (see, that's how it works... it just left me... my head is dead)

marcos

I've been suffering from a bit of writer's block, but I like wht you said about sometimes starting out from a personal spot and then maybe getting a little fictional, my professors in college always said that's good for writers. But I sometimes do imagine myself in another's shoes as well. And I also tend to edit and wind up trashing most of my stuff as well.

chadwick

btw, over editing is for bullshitters and ball tapping cock smokers.

edit spelling... basically that is all.

eyedclaar

chadwick wrote:

btw, over editing is for bullshitters and ball tapping cock smokers.

edit spelling... basically that is all.

Well shit, who knew? I am just curious as to what techniques and styles other people employ in their craft. For me, writing is very much a craft, a skill that needs constant honing, and I go to painstaking lengths to try to get a piece right, even though I know there really isn't such a thing. Hopefully, I don't over edit, but I never assume that just because I put something on paper, no matter how much it might mean to me, that it is a worthwhile piece. Far too much of what others consider poetry, I think is better off as a diary entry.

Again, that's just me. I like to talk about the craft but I'm not sure others think about it that way.

chadwick

eyedclaar wrote:

chadwick wrote:

btw, over editing is for bullshitters and ball tapping cock smokers.

edit spelling... basically that is all.

Well shit, who knew? I am just curious as to what techniques and styles other people employ in their craft. For me, writing is very much a craft, a skill that needs constant honing, and I go to painstaking lengths to try to get a piece right, even though I know there really isn't such a thing. Hopefully, I don't over edit, but I never assume that just because I put something on paper, no matter how much it might mean to me, that it is a worthwhile piece. Far too much of what others consider poetry, I think is better off as a diary entry.

Again, that's just me. I like to talk about the craft but I'm not sure others think about it that way.

eyed... i can talk poetry & writing with you 24x7, with anyone actually.
it is magic... nothing else, nothing less.

skyeriverwinter

eyedclaar wrote:

chadwick wrote:

btw, over editing is for bullshitters and ball tapping cock smokers.

edit spelling... basically that is all.

Well shit, who knew? I am just curious as to what techniques and styles other people employ in their craft. For me, writing is very much a craft, a skill that needs constant honing, and I go to painstaking lengths to try to get a piece right, even though I know there really isn't such a thing. Hopefully, I don't over edit, but I never assume that just because I put something on paper, no matter how much it might mean to me, that it is a worthwhile piece. Far too much of what others consider poetry, I think is better off as a diary entry.

Again, that's just me. I like to talk about the craft but I'm not sure others think about it that way.

wow..that's quite harsh and critical...art is in the eye of the beholder and the maker of that art...no, not every piece is a masterpiece. but on my own writings, yes I would agree with you...probably better to be left in a diary yet I don't keep one exactly. I leave them hear to share my inner thought processes with...well...whomever will read them.

I wonder how critical you'd be of my drawings...hope never to find out..I'd probably kill myself...

eyedclaar

chadwick wrote:

eyedclaar wrote:

chadwick wrote:

btw, over editing is for bullshitters and ball tapping cock smokers.

edit spelling... basically that is all.

Well shit, who knew? I am just curious as to what techniques and styles other people employ in their craft. For me, writing is very much a craft, a skill that needs constant honing, and I go to painstaking lengths to try to get a piece right, even though I know there really isn't such a thing. Hopefully, I don't over edit, but I never assume that just because I put something on paper, no matter how much it might mean to me, that it is a worthwhile piece. Far too much of what others consider poetry, I think is better off as a diary entry.

Again, that's just me. I like to talk about the craft but I'm not sure others think about it that way.

eyed... i can talk poetry & writing with you 24x7, with anyone actually.
it is magic... nothing else, nothing less.

Off the poetry topic, I've been reading Krakauer's non-fiction a lot recently and while his books are awesome, I feel like I am in the same ballpark when it comes to the craft itself. I was feeling pretty good about that last night until I pulled a collection of Ed Abbey's non-fiction off the shelf for a re-read. Jeebus, I have a lot of work in front of me. Then again, Krakauer is a mountain climber, Ed was a writer, and there is a big difference. Still, from Eiger Dreams to Where Men Seek Glory, Krakauer's craft has improved greatly. Mine will too.

chadwick

skyeriverwinter wrote:

wow..that's quite harsh and critical...art is in the eye of the beholder and the maker of that art...no, not every piece is a masterpiece. but on my own writings, yes I would agree with you...probably better to be left in a diary yet I don't keep one exactly. I leave them hear to share my inner thought processes with...well...whomever will read them.

I wonder how critical you'd be of my drawings...hope never to find out..I'd probably kill myself...

you're right, art is in the eye of the beholder.
i am glad you contribute to this forum, please never stop.
and never stop writing, never stop drawing.
we need to come together and support one another's art forms/mediums of expression.
sure we will never ever enjoy everything from everyone...

shine on.

eyedclaar

skyeriverwinter wrote:

eyedclaar wrote:

chadwick wrote:

btw, over editing is for bullshitters and ball tapping cock smokers.

edit spelling... basically that is all.

Well shit, who knew? I am just curious as to what techniques and styles other people employ in their craft. For me, writing is very much a craft, a skill that needs constant honing, and I go to painstaking lengths to try to get a piece right, even though I know there really isn't such a thing. Hopefully, I don't over edit, but I never assume that just because I put something on paper, no matter how much it might mean to me, that it is a worthwhile piece. Far too much of what others consider poetry, I think is better off as a diary entry.

Again, that's just me. I like to talk about the craft but I'm not sure others think about it that way.

wow..that's quite harsh and critical...art is in the eye of the beholder and the maker of that art...no, not every piece is a masterpiece. but on my own writings, yes I would agree with you...probably better to be left in a diary yet I don't keep one exactly. I leave them hear to share my inner thought processes with...well...whomever will read them.

I wonder how critical you'd be of my drawings...hope never to find out..I'd probably kill myself...

That's harsh and critical? I never said every piece is a masterpiece. In fact, I may have written a dozen pieces in my life that I would even compare to some sort of 2nd rate masterpiece. But, that's another beef I have with "artists". They need thicker skin. Nobody gets better at what they do if no one is willing to tell them what isn't working. I was blessed to have two writing teachers who flayed me up one side and down the other. I am forever grateful they didn't handle me with kid's gloves. Of course, I want to sell my art; it isn't just a hobby.

chadwick

eyedclaar wrote:

Off the poetry topic, I've been reading Krakauer's non-fiction a lot recently and while his books are awesome, I feel like I am in the same ballpark when it comes to the craft itself. I was feeling pretty good about that last night until I pulled a collection of Ed Abbey's non-fiction off the shelf for a re-read. Jeebus, I have a lot of work in front of me. Then again, Krakauer is a mountain climber, Ed was a writer, and there is a big difference. Still, from Eiger Dreams to Where Men Seek Glory, Krakauer's craft has improved greatly. Mine will too.

writing takes a lifetime to tackle, a lifetime to work through. as one does it over the years, it does get better.
writing takes time and a great deal of work. it is a work of great love and obsession like pain.

something like that.

i cannot read like you do, sometimes i wish i could. i cannot sit and read novels without time passing by as in months or years to finish a book. screwy head ADD boy is a train wreck when it comes to reading more than 20 minutes at a time.

chadwick

eyedclaar wrote:

Of course, I want to sell my art; it isn't just a hobby.

fuck no... it is not at all a hobby.
if you or i did not write i believe we would be fucked.
it's our blood, dude.
no way out of this alive.

eyedclaar

chadwick wrote:

eyedclaar wrote:

Of course, I want to sell my art; it isn't just a hobby.

fuck no... it is not at all a hobby.
if you or i did not write i believe we would be fucked.
it's our blood, dude.
no way out of this alive.

My head and heart would explode if I couldn't.

skyeriverwinter

eyedclaar wrote:

That's harsh and critical? I never said every piece is a masterpiece. In fact, I may have written a dozen pieces in my life that I would even compare to some sort of 2nd rate masterpiece. But, that's another beef I have with "artists". They need thicker skin. Nobody gets better at what they do if no one is willing to tell them what isn't working. I was blessed to have two writing teachers who flayed me up one side and down the other. I am forever grateful they didn't handle me with kid's gloves. Of course, I want to sell my art; it isn't just a hobby.

Well you obviously are a different kind of artist. You are more technical in your craft. The artists I know are from the heart and soul as am I. The things I put out are apart of me...so when criticized I feel I, personally, am being criticized. Yes this is not the case but this is how I am. There is room for many types of art and types of artists. What I have read of you...you are really wonderful. I believe gentle criticisms work wonderfully even when not wanted...I don't agree with the harsh approach...grew up with it...can do without it in adulthood.

Thank you Mr. Chadwick...you are always so kind to me...

eyedclaar

skyeriverwinter wrote:

eyedclaar wrote:

That's harsh and critical? I never said every piece is a masterpiece. In fact, I may have written a dozen pieces in my life that I would even compare to some sort of 2nd rate masterpiece. But, that's another beef I have with "artists". They need thicker skin. Nobody gets better at what they do if no one is willing to tell them what isn't working. I was blessed to have two writing teachers who flayed me up one side and down the other. I am forever grateful they didn't handle me with kid's gloves. Of course, I want to sell my art; it isn't just a hobby.

Well you obviously are a different kind of artist. You are more technical in your craft. The artists I know are from the heart and soul as am I. The things I put out are apart of me...so when criticized I feel I, personally, am being criticized. Yes this is not the case but this is how I am. There is room for many types of art and types of artists. What I have read of you...you are really wonderful. I believe gentle criticisms work wonderfully even when not wanted...I don't agree with the harsh approach...grew up with it...can do without it in adulthood.

Thank you Mr. Chadwick...you are always so kind to me...

Well, rejection is part of my writing job, and for every piece I am getting published, I am getting one turned down. I take in what they have to offer, accept what I agree with and dismiss what I don't. I have to be willing to accept failure as part of the process.

the wolf

chadwick wrote:

writing takes a lifetime to tackle, a lifetime to work through. as one does it over the years, it does get better.

Not always. *cough* Stephen King *cough* :roll:

skyeriverwinter

eyedclaar wrote:

skyeriverwinter wrote:

eyedclaar wrote:

That's harsh and critical? I never said every piece is a masterpiece. In fact, I may have written a dozen pieces in my life that I would even compare to some sort of 2nd rate masterpiece. But, that's another beef I have with "artists". They need thicker skin. Nobody gets better at what they do if no one is willing to tell them what isn't working. I was blessed to have two writing teachers who flayed me up one side and down the other. I am forever grateful they didn't handle me with kid's gloves. Of course, I want to sell my art; it isn't just a hobby.

Well you obviously are a different kind of artist. You are more technical in your craft. The artists I know are from the heart and soul as am I. The things I put out are apart of me...so when criticized I feel I, personally, am being criticized. Yes this is not the case but this is how I am. There is room for many types of art and types of artists. What I have read of you...you are really wonderful. I believe gentle criticisms work wonderfully even when not wanted...I don't agree with the harsh approach...grew up with it...can do without it in adulthood.

Thank you Mr. Chadwick...you are always so kind to me...

Well, rejection is part of my writing job, and for every piece I am getting published, I am getting one turned down. I take in what they have to offer, accept what I agree with and dismiss what I don't. I have to be willing to accept failure as part of the process.

Yes, failure is a part of every process...I am sure you will succeed in all you wish to achieve. Have a great day!

chadwick

the wolf wrote:

chadwick wrote:

writing takes a lifetime to tackle, a lifetime to work through. as one does it over the years, it does get better.

Not always. *cough* Stephen King *cough* :roll:

stephen king has most probably been pampered by wealth.
one needs to stay hungry.
hunger strike?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W8Jp7aCMtg

Ms. Wes C.addle

I question submitting a response, as I always question submitting anything in the "poetry" section. I am not a poet or a writer, but it comes from within... Random thoughts or feelings. I blackout, type some bullshit and hit the submit button before re-reading to edit. They are my words and for some reason, feel the need to get them out of my head, some deeper than some could fathom, but real.

Wait, what was the fucking question again?

eyedclaar

ms. wes c.addle wrote:

I question submitting a response, as I always question submitting anything in the "poetry" section. I am not a poet or a writer, but it comes from within... Random thoughts or feelings. I blackout, type some bullshit and hit the submit button before re-reading to edit. They are my words and for some reason, feel the need to get them out of my head, some deeper than some could fathom, but real.

Wait, what was the fucking question again?

The question is - why are you biting that poor bear?

Godfather.

I don't know what you would call me or what I write ? what ever it is comes from the top of my head or I hear of a story or a time in history and I especially like putting my self in someone else's mind and putting their story or thought's in a poem,I sing them in my mind as I type them sometimes, I don't really care to write love pomes or mushy stuff about a women because it seems like a ez out for a poem or even a song,I like to read them I just don't care to write them,to me getting into a character's mind and thought's and putting it to words is the real challenge....I guess you could call it "living fiction." by the way great thread !

Godfather.

mysticweed

eyedclaar wrote:

After reading The End by our friend here and reading people's responses, I am left with a question. Nice piece, by the way, lettingo. It seems most folks write straight from their heart dealing with very personal stuff. Is that the case? With me, maybe the first draft of something has more truth/personal feeling in it than what I share. I certainly don't let the truth get in the way of good writing. Hell, some if it is straight up fiction. Also, I edit the fuck out of my poems, constantly tweaking one word or image or line break to create something bigger and more meaningful than what I started. Basically, when finished, I have removed myself and simply focus on the speaker. Some of my stuff is barbaric and sometimes I hear people wonder how I can think the way I do and I'm always like, I think you are confusing me with the speaker/voice of this piece.

What say you writers?

I almost wasn't bold enough to open this thread, and then to be completely humbled to see, well, me. While I'm here I want to spread the love. I have officially ordered (yes, BEFORE I read this) an autographed copy of KDICO by our friend HERE!

catefrances

chadwick wrote:

eyedclaar wrote:

Of course, I want to sell my art; it isn't just a hobby.

fuck no... it is not at all a hobby.
if you or i did not write i believe we would be fucked.
it's our blood, dude.
no way out of this alive.

eyedclaar

the wolf wrote:

For me it really depends on the piece. As of late it's way more straight from the heart, and very little is done to it in the form of editing. Other times I too edit the hell out of it to remove myself from it.
I hate the editing process though, so I usually let someting live in my head for a bit before actually writing. That way I don't feel the need to edit much because I've worked certain things out before ever "writing" it.

I'm not a big fan of editing poetry. Now, when I write music and lyrics, its a different story. And forget about it when it comes time to mixing. I used to become a mad scientist when it came to mixing the song. What I would end with, would sound nothing like what I started with. The change in the song would be drastic at times.

I'm now going back the other way on that too. What I record, is really close to the final version.

Sorry, this is no help at all really. I'm all over the place I guess.

oh, and to answer the question, there are times for sure that I put myself in someone else's shoes, and it becomes fiction.

I don't think there really is any right or wrong to it per se. I think it is more a matter of perspective, expectations, and what an individual finds works for them. For anyone who seemed offended (not you, wolf), I wasn't suggesting I had the answers or anything. Just trying to kick off a discussion. Honeslty, I think I am an ok writer but a solid editor.

Godfather.

man ! what I'm swimming with the sharks here ? are all you guy's published poets or song writers ?

Godfather.

chadwick

Godfather. wrote:

man ! what I'm swimming with the sharks here ? are all you guy's published poets or song writers ?

Godfather.

that's pretty funny,,, the shark bit.
i'm currently writing what will be my 3rd book. (already 50+ poems into it)
my 2nd book is not published as of yet but will be sooner than later.

the deal is, i feel i deserve to have a decent publisher.
my current publisher is not meeting my expectations.
when the time is right i will know it.

also, editing (mainly editing for spelling) some 800 poems is something that kills me.
i dislike going over and over and over my work like that.
i write the fuckers... my job is done, right???? um,,, probably not. (puke vomit shit)

eyedclaar

Godfather. wrote:

man ! what I'm swimming with the sharks here ? are all you guy's published poets or song writers ?

Godfather.

I'm really more of a wolverine than shark, but yes, I am a published poet, song writer, photographer, fiction and non-fiction writer. However, that doesn't have anything to do with the discussion at hand. You don't have to be published to have an opinion on writing. Like I always say, "the worst writing I have ever read is also some of the most successful writing ever written." Thank you fuckin' Twilight (for the record, I read about a page of someone else's copy before I was so offended by the lack of craft, I wanted to kill someone). Then again, I start feeling a little stabby about every time the wind shifts direction.

eyedclaar

chadwick wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

man ! what I'm swimming with the sharks here ? are all you guy's published poets or song writers ?

Godfather.

that's pretty funny,,, the shark bit.
i'm currently writing what will be my 3rd book. (already 50+ poems into it)
my 2nd book is not published as of yet but will be sooner than later.

the deal is, i feel i deserve to have a decent publisher.
my current publisher is not meeting my expectations.
when the time is right i will know it.

also, editing (mainly editing for spelling) some 800 poems is something that kills me.
i dislike going over and over and over my work like that.
i write the fuckers... my job is done, right???? um,,, probably not. (puke vomit shit)

I envy that approach, but am too much a perfectionist. Bukowski wrote about one bazillion poems in his life, never looking back, and I think it is a double-edged sword. When I read his stuff I am half impressed while the other side is thinking, "man, you could have made this a much more powerful piece with a little effort."

Whatever works...

Godfather.

I admire you guys and gal"s, this stuff for me has always been something I have enjoyed doing and even dreamed of doing it for a living....pipe dream, most of my stuff ain't that good but I like it it gives me a chance to put to paper what's in in my mind just for a thought or two,maybe when I get older I find some of the stuff I have done and get a little laugh out of it and bring up past memories.

Godfather.

mysticweed

Godfather. wrote:

I admire you guys and gal"s, this stuff for me has always been something I have enjoyed doing and even dreamed of doing it for a living....pipe dream, most of my stuff ain't that good but I like it it gives me a chance to put to paper what's in in my mind just for a thought or two,maybe when I get older I find some of the stuff I have done and get a little laugh out of it and bring up past memories.

Godfather.

and I to expunge them (memories, that is)