maybe iran should take a page from israel's book?

Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
edited June 2010 in A Moving Train
would that be ok with the supporters of israel's attack on the flotilla?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 140282.ece


Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran



Three German-built Israeli submarines equipped with nuclear cruise missiles are to be deployed in the Gulf near the Iranian coastline.

The first has been sent in response to Israeli fears that ballistic missiles developed by Iran, Syria and Hezbollah, a political and military organisation in Lebanon, could hit sites in Israel, including air bases and missile launchers.

The submarines of Flotilla 7 — Dolphin, Tekuma and Leviathan — have visited the Gulf before. But the decision has now been taken to ensure a permanent presence of at least one of the vessels.

The flotilla’s commander, identified only as “Colonel O”, told an Israeli newspaper: “We are an underwater assault force. We’re operating deep and far, very far, from our borders.”

Each of the submarines has a crew of 35 to 50, commanded by a colonel capable of launching a nuclear cruise missile.

The vessels can remain at sea for about 50 days and stay submerged up to 1,150ft below the surface for at least a week. Some of the cruise missiles are equipped with the most advanced nuclear warheads in the Israeli arsenal.

The deployment is designed to act as a deterrent, gather intelligence and potentially to land Mossad agents. “We’re a solid base for collecting sensitive information, as we can stay for a long time in one place,” said a flotilla officer.

The submarines could be used if Iran continues its programme to produce a nuclear bomb. “The 1,500km range of the submarines’ cruise missiles can reach any target in Iran,” said a navy officer.

Apparently responding to the Israeli activity, an Iranian admiral said: “Anyone who wishes to do an evil act in the Persian Gulf will receive a forceful response from us.”

Israel’s urgent need to deter the Iran-Syria-Hezbollah alliance was demonstrated last month. Ehud Barak, the defence minister, was said to have shown President Barack Obama classified satellite images of a convoy of ballistic missiles leaving Syria on the way to Hezbollah in Lebanon.

Binyamin Netanyahu, the prime minister, will emphasise the danger to Obama in Washington this week.

Tel Aviv, Israel’s business and defence centre, remains the most threatened city in the world, said one expert. “There are more missiles per square foot targeting Tel Aviv than any other city,” he said.
don't compete; coexist

what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Israel is the biggest threat to world peace. They are a dangerous rogue state. Period.

    How long will the U.S allow Israel to pull it's strings in Washington?
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    whats the hebrew word for provocation???
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    Is this a surprise to anyone? We learn this morning on the front page of the Times that Iran already has enough low enriched uranium for two bombs, and this is a country whose leaders have repeatedly talked about destroying Israel, and which funds, arms, and trains Hamas and Hezbollah. What is Israel supposed to do? NOT try to create a deterrent? They are only doing what any other state in their position would do; sending the message that if Iran hits them they will hit Iran right back.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    no yosi its not a surprise.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    yosi wrote:
    Is this a surprise to anyone? We learn this morning on the front page of the Times that Iran already has enough low enriched uranium for two bombs, and this is a country whose leaders have repeatedly talked about destroying Israel, and which funds, arms, and trains Hamas and Hezbollah. What is Israel supposed to do? NOT try to create a deterrent? They are only doing what any other state in their position would do; sending the message that if Iran hits them they will hit Iran right back.


    so, i take it you are saying you DO NOT think Iran should forcibly board this nuclear sub off their waters?

    yeah, save that for boats with humanitarian aid.... :roll:
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    yosi wrote:
    Is this a surprise to anyone? We learn this morning on the front page of the Times that Iran already has enough low enriched uranium for two bombs, and this is a country whose leaders have repeatedly talked about destroying Israel, and which funds, arms, and trains Hamas and Hezbollah. What is Israel supposed to do? NOT try to create a deterrent? They are only doing what any other state in their position would do; sending the message that if Iran hits them they will hit Iran right back.

    More sabre rattling from Israel. Iran isn't threatening anyone. On the other hand all we hear from the Israeli's are threats against Iran and Lebanon.

    Israel is the biggest threat to peace in the world today.
  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    Byrnzie wrote:
    yosi wrote:
    Is this a surprise to anyone? We learn this morning on the front page of the Times that Iran already has enough low enriched uranium for two bombs, and this is a country whose leaders have repeatedly talked about destroying Israel, and which funds, arms, and trains Hamas and Hezbollah. What is Israel supposed to do? NOT try to create a deterrent? They are only doing what any other state in their position would do; sending the message that if Iran hits them they will hit Iran right back.

    More sabre rattling from Israel. Iran isn't threatening anyone. On the other hand all we hear from the Israeli's are threats against Iran and Lebanon.

    Israel is the biggest threat to peace in the world today.


    and all we see is barbaric violence against people who won't get off the land they want
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Byrnzie wrote:
    yosi wrote:
    Is this a surprise to anyone? We learn this morning on the front page of the Times that Iran already has enough low enriched uranium for two bombs, and this is a country whose leaders have repeatedly talked about destroying Israel, and which funds, arms, and trains Hamas and Hezbollah. What is Israel supposed to do? NOT try to create a deterrent? They are only doing what any other state in their position would do; sending the message that if Iran hits them they will hit Iran right back.

    Iran isn't threatening anyone

    today...

    let's not pretend like anyone in this process is innocent except the civilians. The governments of all these countries have repeatedly called for the destruction of israel...Israel has threatened all the other nations. At what point is everyone to blame in your eyes byrnzie? or is it always israel.

    If canada repeatedly called for our destruction I would hope we would do something about it.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    yosi wrote:
    Is this a surprise to anyone? We learn this morning on the front page of the Times that Iran already has enough low enriched uranium for two bombs, and this is a country whose leaders have repeatedly talked about destroying Israel, and which funds, arms, and trains Hamas and Hezbollah. What is Israel supposed to do? NOT try to create a deterrent? They are only doing what any other state in their position would do; sending the message that if Iran hits them they will hit Iran right back.

    Iran isn't threatening anyone

    today...

    let's not pretend like anyone in this process is innocent except the civilians. The governments of all these countries have repeatedly called for the destruction of israel...Israel has threatened all the other nations. At what point is everyone to blame in your eyes byrnzie? or is it always israel.

    If canada repeatedly called for our destruction I would hope we would do something about it.
    Ahmadinejad is full of shit. he will do nothing. yosi only brings this up to try and detract away from the IDF and their latest disgusting actions against the passengers of the flotilla. Ahmadinejad will do exactly as he did on December 27th 2008 when Israel launched it's brutal assault on Gaza, murdering approximately 1400 people of which 318 were children. 76% of the Palestinians murdered were not combatants. 24% were children. where was Ahmadinejad then? sitting on his ass with the rest of the world leaders, turning a blind eye to this massacre.

    also, Iran has just as much right to have access to nucleur weapons as Israel and the U.S. personally i don't like the fact that anyone has them, but who the hell are we to dictate to the rest of the world as to who can or cannot have them. and let's not forget there is only one country who has EVER used them. saying that, do i want Iran to show hostility towards Israel or anyone else? of course not.

    don't you think that this is just a little fucked up?

    you have the only country that has EVER used WMD (U.S.), supporting a country that we all know has WMD'S - Israel). that same country that has used them (U.S.), is STILL over in Iraq blowing their country and people to pieces because they THOUGHT they had WMD. STILL none have been found.

    how can any rational person not see how wrong that is? how can anyone try to justify a U.S. policy that kills where WMD don't exist, and yet turns a blind eye and unconditionally supports Israel and provides them with billions of dollars in foreign aid each year, where they obviously do?

    what an absolute disgrace. there is nothing right about that. how about this. this is right. the mandate of victimhood has well and truly expired. the Nazi genocide of Europe's Jews, no longer excuses the state of Israel from the demands of international law and of common humanity. it's way overdue and it's been a long time coming.

    Ahmadinejad is no threat. he's all talk no action. now if you want to talk about action, how about the ongoing illegal and brutal occupation that the Palestinians are subjected to every single day.

    end the blockade. free Palestine. boycott Israel.
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353


    Ahmadinejad is full of shit. he will do nothing. yosi only brings this up to try and detract away from the IDF and their latest disgusting actions against the passengers of the flotilla. Ahmadinejad will do exactly as he did on December 27th 2008 when Israel launched it's brutal assault on Gaza, murdering approximately 1400 people of which 318 were children. 76% of the Palestinians murdered were not combatants. 24% were children. where was Ahmadinejad then? sitting on his ass with the rest of the world leaders, turning a blind eye to this massacre.

    also, Iran has just as much right to have access to nucleur weapons as Israel and the U.S. personally i don't like the fact that anyone has them, but who the hell are we to dictate to the rest of the world as to who can or cannot have them. and let's not forget there is only one country who has EVER used them. saying that, do i want Iran to show hostility towards Israel or anyone else? of course not.

    don't you think that this is just a little fucked up?

    you have the only country that has EVER used WMD (U.S.), supporting a country that we all know has WMD'S - Israel). that same country that has used them (U.S.), is STILL over in Iraq blowing their country and people to pieces because they THOUGHT they had WMD. STILL none have been found.

    how can any rational person not see how wrong that is? how can anyone try to justify a U.S. policy that kills where WMD don't exist, and yet turns a blind eye and unconditionally supports Israel and provides them with billions of dollars in foreign aid each year, where they obviously do?

    what an absolute disgrace. there is nothing right about that. how about this. this is right. the mandate of victimhood has well and truly expired. the Nazi genocide of Europe's Jews, no longer excuses the state of Israel from the demands of international law and of common humanity. it's way overdue and it's been a long time coming.

    Ahmadinejad is no threat. he's all talk no action. now if you want to talk about action, how about the ongoing illegal and brutal occupation that the Palestinians are subjected to every single day.

    end the blockade. free Palestine. boycott Israel.


    I never said Israel was innocent, they are far from that, but let's not pretend that they are the only problem. But i agree with your point about the US involvement. I think it is time for Israel to sleep in the bed it has made . . .
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    Byrnzie wrote:
    yosi wrote:
    Is this a surprise to anyone? We learn this morning on the front page of the Times that Iran already has enough low enriched uranium for two bombs, and this is a country whose leaders have repeatedly talked about destroying Israel, and which funds, arms, and trains Hamas and Hezbollah. What is Israel supposed to do? NOT try to create a deterrent? They are only doing what any other state in their position would do; sending the message that if Iran hits them they will hit Iran right back.

    More sabre rattling from Israel. Iran isn't threatening anyone. On the other hand all we hear from the Israeli's are threats against Iran and Lebanon.

    Israel is the biggest threat to peace in the world today.

    Please explain to me how Iran is not threatening Israel. Because in the rational world in which I live it is considered a threat to repeatedly voice your desire to wipe another country off the face of the earth, especially when you are in the process of building the weapons that would allow you to do so. It is also thought, in this rational world in which I live, that funding, arming, and training terrorist groups that routinely attack and menace another country is threatening. But please, B, enlighten me on why it is that the ever so peaceful Iran, which is such a pillar of right and decent action in the international community, is NOT threatening Israel.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    The governments of all these countries have repeatedly called for the destruction of israel

    When?
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    yosi wrote:
    Please explain to me how Iran is not threatening Israel. Because in the rational world in which I live it is considered a threat to repeatedly voice your desire to wipe another country off the face of the earth

    When did Ahmadinejad threaten to wipe Israel off the map?

    He didn't. Read on...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ah ... ranslation
    'Many news sources repeated the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting statement as though Ahmadinejad had demanded that "Israel must be wiped off the map",[5][6] an English idiom which means to "cause a place to stop existing",[7] or to "obliterate totally",[8] or "destroy completely".[9] News sources currently continue to repeat this claim. [10]

    Ahmadinejad's phrase was " بايد از صفحه روزگار محو شود " according to the text published on the President's Office's website, and was a quote of Ayatollah Khomeini.[11]

    The translation presented by IRNA has been challenged by Arash Norouzi, who says the statement "wiped off the map" was never made and that Ahmadinejad did not refer to the nation or land mass of Israel, but to the "regime occupying Jerusalem". In his own words:

    So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in Persian: "Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

    That passage will mean nothing to most people, but one word might ring a bell: rezhim-e. It is the word "Regime", pronounced just like the English word with an extra "eh" sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase "rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods" (regime occupying Jerusalem).

    So this raises the question.. what exactly did he want "wiped from the map"? The answer is: nothing. That's because the word "map" was never used. The Persian word for map, "nagsheh", is not contained anywhere in his original Persian quote, or, for that matter, anywhere in his entire speech. Nor was the western phrase "wipe out" ever said. Yet we are led to believe that Iran's President threatened to "wipe Israel off the map", despite never having uttered the words "map", "wipe out" or even "Israel"

    The full quote translated directly to English: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    Ahmadinejad is full of shit. he will do nothing. yosi only brings this up to try and detract away from the IDF and their latest disgusting actions against the passengers of the flotilla. Ahmadinejad will do exactly as he did on December 27th 2008 when Israel launched it's brutal assault on Gaza, murdering approximately 1400 people of which 318 were children. 76% of the Palestinians murdered were not combatants. 24% were children. where was Ahmadinejad then? sitting on his ass with the rest of the world leaders, turning a blind eye to this massacre.

    also, Iran has just as much right to have access to nucleur weapons as Israel and the U.S. personally i don't like the fact that anyone has them, but who the hell are we to dictate to the rest of the world as to who can or cannot have them. and let's not forget there is only one country who has EVER used them. saying that, do i want Iran to show hostility towards Israel or anyone else? of course not.

    don't you think that this is just a little fucked up?

    you have the only country that has EVER used WMD (U.S.), supporting a country that we all know has WMD'S - Israel). that same country that has used them (U.S.), is STILL over in Iraq blowing their country and people to pieces because they THOUGHT they had WMD. STILL none have been found.

    how can any rational person not see how wrong that is? how can anyone try to justify a U.S. policy that kills where WMD don't exist, and yet turns a blind eye and unconditionally supports Israel and provides them with billions of dollars in foreign aid each year, where they obviously do?

    what an absolute disgrace. there is nothing right about that. how about this. this is right. the mandate of victimhood has well and truly expired. the Nazi genocide of Europe's Jews, no longer excuses the state of Israel from the demands of international law and of common humanity. it's way overdue and it's been a long time coming.
    Ahmadinejad is no threat. he's all talk no action. now if you want to talk about action, how about the ongoing illegal and brutal occupation that the Palestinians are subjected to every single day.

    end the blockade. free Palestine. boycott Israel.

    i completely agree with your post. especially the part i made blue. the victimhood card of israel has expired. in my opinion, the minute you become a an economic and military superpower in any region in this world, as israel has in the middle eastern region, you can no longer claim yourself as a victim. in this case, the victim has become powerful and it imposes that power over the entire region, and in some cases the world. i say the same thing about the US, the minute they prevailed in WWII and began to dominate this world economically and militarily after the war their claim of victimhood on dec 7 1941 expired. the same way in that we did not completely collapse after 9/11 our victimhood expired. what happened to israel and the US in the past, no matter how terrible, does not give future generations of said countries the license to be dicks nor the right to put their boots across the throats of other people they wish to oppress....
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • BYRNZIE said: "Iran isn't threatening anyone."

    This is quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said, until you understand that BYRNZIE is a jihadist.

    He believes that 9/11 was an inside job perpetrated by the Jews.

    Hey BYRNZIE, can I get Bin Laden's cell number from you?
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    JB210892 wrote:
    BYRNZIE said: "Iran isn't threatening anyone."

    This is quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said, until you understand that BYRNZIE is a jihadist.

    He believes that 9/11 was an inside job perpetrated by the Jews.

    Hey BYRNZIE, can I get Bin Laden's cell number from you?
    will you stay on the topic please?

    and your obsession with byrnzie is quite disturbing. i think he fancies women, so unfortunately you are out of luck....
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Maybe Iran should do what the Israelis should have done, and handle this issue with diplomacy or else leave it alone altogether. With all due respect, pepe, these tit-for-tat arguments never make sense to me. Not that Iran could do anything about nuclear subs in any case.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    edited June 2010
    will you stay on the topic please?

    and your obsession with byrnzie is quite disturbing. i think he fancies women, so unfortunately you are out of luck....

    I don't know ... He seems to have the hots for Mahmoud Ahmadinejad these days. "No, no, he didn't say that ... He's just tragically misunderstood!!!" ;)

    EDIT: All jokes aside, Byrnzie, for all of our run-ins, is no Jihadist.
    Post edited by rebornFixer on
  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    Maybe Iran should do what the Israelis should have done, and handle this issue with diplomacy or else leave it alone altogether. With all due respect, pepe, these tit-for-tat arguments never make sense to me. Not that Iran could do anything about nuclear subs in any case.


    i think it's relevant. israel attacked and hijacked a flotilla killing several people. this was done to boats with humanitarian aid and many are saying israel was perfectly justified.

    so, if they are justified in attacking a flotilla with humanitarian aid in international waters shouldn't iran be able to attack and take over a nuclear submarine sitting off their coast?

    people can't have it both ways
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Maybe Iran should do what the Israelis should have done, and handle this issue with diplomacy or else leave it alone altogether. With all due respect, pepe, these tit-for-tat arguments never make sense to me. Not that Iran could do anything about nuclear subs in any case.


    i think it's relevant. israel attacked and hijacked a flotilla killing several people. this was done to boats with humanitarian aid and many are saying israel was perfectly justified.

    so, if they are justified in attacking a flotilla with humanitarian aid in international waters shouldn't iran be able to attack and take over a nuclear submarine sitting off their coast?

    people can't have it both ways

    In theory, you are correct. In practice, attacking a nuclear sub would unleash a shitstorm that would make this flotilla raid look like a rugby match by comparison. If you think its useful to argue that Iran has a right to attack a sub, be my guest, and strictly speaking, you're probably right. I still fail to see how the ultimate truth here pertains to what should or could happen in reality. I'll be honest about my bias here: Iran is just as guilty of sabre-rattling as Israel is, if not more so. I'd prefer both parties shut up and pay attention to their own affairs.
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