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Your opinion about Immigration.

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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,085
    edited June 2018
    Why don’t I Remember this thread when Obama was doing the same exact thing in 2013?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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    oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,844
    mcgruff10 said:
    Why don’t I Remember this thread when Obama was doing the same exact thing in 2013?
    Mostly because he wasn’t doing exactly the same thing. In fact, no where close, which is clear from the info in this thread. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,085
    mcgruff10 said:
    Why don’t I Remember this thread when Obama was doing the same exact thing in 2013?
    Mostly because he wasn’t doing exactly the same thing. In fact, no where close, which is clear from the info in this thread. 
    Let s go Newsweek as a source:

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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    oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,844
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Why don’t I Remember this thread when Obama was doing the same exact thing in 2013?
    Mostly because he wasn’t doing exactly the same thing. In fact, no where close, which is clear from the info in this thread. 
    Let s go Newsweek as a source:

    Have you read the info in this thread at all?

    Those children arrived in the country as unaccompanied minors. They were not taken from family if they arrived with family. This administration is deliberately separating children, even babies, from their parents as a method of deterrence. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,085
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Why don’t I Remember this thread when Obama was doing the same exact thing in 2013?
    Mostly because he wasn’t doing exactly the same thing. In fact, no where close, which is clear from the info in this thread. 
    Let s go Newsweek as a source:

    Have you read the info in this thread at all?

    Those children arrived in the country as unaccompanied minors. They were not taken from family if they arrived with family. This administration is deliberately separating children, even babies, from their parents as a method of deterrence. 
    Do you want those children to go to jail with their parents? Illegal Is illegal. Like I said, I don’t agree what trump is doing but at least he is trying something to curtail illegal immigration. Hopefully these stories have been heard down south and more people will think twice and try to enter our country legally. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,151
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Why don’t I Remember this thread when Obama was doing the same exact thing in 2013?
    Mostly because he wasn’t doing exactly the same thing. In fact, no where close, which is clear from the info in this thread. 
    Let s go Newsweek as a source:

    Have you read the info in this thread at all?

    Those children arrived in the country as unaccompanied minors. They were not taken from family if they arrived with family. This administration is deliberately separating children, even babies, from their parents as a method of deterrence. 
    Do you want those children to go to jail with their parents? Illegal Is illegal. Like I said, I don’t agree what trump is doing but at least he is trying something to curtail illegal immigration. Hopefully these stories have been heard down south and more people will think twice and try to enter our country legally. 
    Actually, yes, I would prefer the children be put in jail with their parents over having the kids put in a facility where they freak out, cry and are not allowed to be touched by anyone.  Or send parent and child back together.  Anything but the horrors that are going on.

    " Hopefully these stories have been heard down south and more people will think twice and try to enter our country legally. "

    I think I know you well enough, McG to know that you would not want to use the traumatizing of children to try to send a message. 

    There has to be a better, more humane way to deal with all this.  We are treating humans like cattle- and we generally don't even treat cattle with any degree of kindness. 

    How about helping these other countries become better places such that people wouldn't want to leave them in the first place?  There must be some way to assist in doing that. 

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Maryland Posts: 16,426
    edited June 2018
    Did anyone in his thread who has expressed support for this separation of children from their parents ever get lost in a store, mall, market, city park, amusement park, etc when you were a small child? Do you recall the fear, stress, & mental trauma you experienced during that time? When a minute felt like an hour? When you were crying in panic hoping just to see a familiar face again. Have any of your kids gotten lost from you? Did you experience their sadness when you find them or they found you again?

    Traumatic experience, right? These are not children getting lost we’re talking about here. These are children being forcefully taken from their parents. They are being thrown in abandoned Wal-Marts in 100 degree heat. They see the sky an hour a day. They’re locked in cages like a fucking animal shelter.

    If you support this I really honestly hope that you NEVER had to experience separation from your parents as a child and I hope you NEVER have to experience this separation as a parent. But if you do, maybe it’s deserved so you know what it feels like.

    And if you support this, don’t you FUCKING DARE say one god damn word about happy Father’s Day. 
  • Options
    oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,844
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Why don’t I Remember this thread when Obama was doing the same exact thing in 2013?
    Mostly because he wasn’t doing exactly the same thing. In fact, no where close, which is clear from the info in this thread. 
    Let s go Newsweek as a source:

    Have you read the info in this thread at all?

    Those children arrived in the country as unaccompanied minors. They were not taken from family if they arrived with family. This administration is deliberately separating children, even babies, from their parents as a method of deterrence. 
    Do you want those children to go to jail with their parents? Illegal Is illegal. Like I said, I don’t agree what trump is doing but at least he is trying something to curtail illegal immigration. Hopefully these stories have been heard down south and more people will think twice and try to enter our country legally. 
    No, illegal isn’t illegal. Unauthorized crossing of a border isn’t even a criminal offence. People don’t need to go to jail. Trump’s administration is choosing to do that and pretend it’s necessary but it isn’t. 

    Even if it was, plenty of people commit actual criminal offences and aren’t kept in jail. 

    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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    HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Maryland Posts: 16,426
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Why don’t I Remember this thread when Obama was doing the same exact thing in 2013?
    Mostly because he wasn’t doing exactly the same thing. In fact, no where close, which is clear from the info in this thread. 
    Let s go Newsweek as a source:

    Have you read the info in this thread at all?

    Those children arrived in the country as unaccompanied minors. They were not taken from family if they arrived with family. This administration is deliberately separating children, even babies, from their parents as a method of deterrence. 
    Do you want those children to go to jail with their parents? Illegal Is illegal. Like I said, I don’t agree what trump is doing but at least he is trying something to curtail illegal immigration. Hopefully these stories have been heard down south and more people will think twice and try to enter our country legally. 
    No, illegal isn’t illegal. Unauthorized crossing of a border isn’t even a criminal offence. People don’t need to go to jail. Trump’s administration is choosing to do that and pretend it’s necessary but it isn’t. 

    Even if it was, plenty of people commit actual criminal offences and aren’t kept in jail. 

    Like the entire Trump Administration.
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    BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 10,606
    Stephen Miller is a noted anti-Semite and white nationalist. So no surprise that we would want to implement  policies that emulate the third reich.
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    Stephen Miller is a noted anti-Semite and white nationalist. So no surprise that we would want to implement  policies that emulate the third reich.
    In all honesty... I see people saying, "Stop the dramatics" when comparing the situation to other horrible situations.

    And while in a way they can comfortably say such at this point in time... it might be too late to say at a later time.

    Recognize the signals and intents. I played basketball with a Yugoslavian guy (back in the early 90s) who who once scolded us for talking nonsense about how we were irritated with Quebec for obnoxiously wanting a bilingual country. He said, "This is exactly the talk that was prevalent and unchecked back in my country before things went nuts."

    The situation in the US is more serious than people might care to admit.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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    HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Maryland Posts: 16,426
    Stephen Miller is a noted anti-Semite and white nationalist. So no surprise that we would want to implement  policies that emulate the third reich.
    In all honesty... I see people saying, "Stop the dramatics" when comparing the situation to other horrible situations.

    And while in a way they can comfortably say such at this point in time... it might be too late to say at a later time.

    Recognize the signals and intents. I played basketball with a Yugoslavian guy (back in the early 90s) who who once scolded us for talking nonsense about how we were irritated with Quebec for obnoxiously wanting a bilingual country. He said, "This is exactly the talk that was prevalent and unchecked back in my country before things went nuts."

    The situation in the US is more serious than people might care to admit.
    Precisely. This is seriously fucking disturbing. If Charlottesville wasn’t enough to wake everyone up in this country, this should be. But it isn’t. We’ve become insensitive to violence and inhumanity because this government and its supporters have made it the norm. 
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 37,165
    Easy solution. Give everyone crossing the border a gun. Things will take care of themselves.
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,151
    Easy solution. Give everyone crossing the border a gun. Things will take care of themselves.
    Reminds me of Henry Rollins quoting (I think it was) Chuck Dukowski saying, "Just give everybody a gun and see who is the last man standing", LOL.   Sort of like what Edward Abbey suggested and he might have been partially serious, but I always took his words to be more metaphorical.  I do agree with the idea of helping other place figure out how to make their homelands better places.

    But regardless of the solution (and, damn, we need one that works and is humane), the one thing I hope we all agree with is this notion of separating children from their parents being utter bullshit.  Dyer said that so well here (and yes, I remember that feeling of intense anxiety those times I got lost in the store or the park):
    Did anyone in his thread who has expressed support for this separation of children from their parents ever get lost in a store, mall, market, city park, amusement park, etc when you were a small child? Do you recall the fear, stress, & mental trauma you experienced during that time? When a minute felt like an hour? When you were crying in panic hoping just to see a familiar face again. Have any of your kids gotten lost from you? Did you experience their sadness when you find them or they found you again?

    Traumatic experience, right? These are not children getting lost we’re talking about here. These are children being forcefully taken from their parents. They are being thrown in abandoned Wal-Marts in 100 degree heat. They see the sky an hour a day. They’re locked in cages like a fucking animal shelter.

    If you support this I really honestly hope that you NEVER had to experience separation from your parents as a child and I hope you NEVER have to experience this separation as a parent. But if you do, maybe it’s deserved so you know what it feels like.

    And if you support this, don’t you FUCKING DARE say one god damn word about happy Father’s Day. 



    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,555
    brianlux said:
    Easy solution. Give everyone crossing the border a gun. Things will take care of themselves.
    Reminds me of Henry Rollins quoting (I think it was) Chuck Dukowski saying, "Just give everybody a gun and see who is the last man standing", LOL.   Sort of like what Edward Abbey suggested and he might have been partially serious, but I always took his words to be more metaphorical.  I do agree with the idea of helping other place figure out how to make their homelands better places.

    But regardless of the solution (and, damn, we need one that works and is humane), the one thing I hope we all agree with is this notion of separating children from their parents being utter bullshit.  Dyer said that so well here (and yes, I remember that feeling of intense anxiety those times I got lost in the store or the park):
    Did anyone in his thread who has expressed support for this separation of children from their parents ever get lost in a store, mall, market, city park, amusement park, etc when you were a small child? Do you recall the fear, stress, & mental trauma you experienced during that time? When a minute felt like an hour? When you were crying in panic hoping just to see a familiar face again. Have any of your kids gotten lost from you? Did you experience their sadness when you find them or they found you again?

    Traumatic experience, right? These are not children getting lost we’re talking about here. These are children being forcefully taken from their parents. They are being thrown in abandoned Wal-Marts in 100 degree heat. They see the sky an hour a day. They’re locked in cages like a fucking animal shelter.

    If you support this I really honestly hope that you NEVER had to experience separation from your parents as a child and I hope you NEVER have to experience this separation as a parent. But if you do, maybe it’s deserved so you know what it feels like.

    And if you support this, don’t you FUCKING DARE say one god damn word about happy Father’s Day. 



    Yep the kids don’t get to see their dads anymore , it’s a disgusting sign of times empathy no longer exist in this country...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,555
    The push back on this policy should be Zero tolerance by the opposition keep hammering them with it , reverse it !
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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    RoleModelsinBlood31RoleModelsinBlood31 Austin TX Posts: 6,152
    Well trump fucked this up.  He’s gotta stop this, it’s obviously outrageous to do this to children.  Get them back to their parents and send them all back.  Does he think he’s going to get wall money or something by running with this?  If he doesn’t fix this today after the weekend of news about it I’m not sure I’m going to be able to suppprt him anymore.  I thought about it a lot this weekend and I can forgive stupid tweets but this is just inhumane. 
    I'm like an opening band for your mom.
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    tbergstbergs Posts: 9,373
    Well trump fucked this up.  He’s gotta stop this, it’s obviously outrageous to do this to children.  Get them back to their parents and send them all back.  Does he think he’s going to get wall money or something by running with this?  If he doesn’t fix this today after the weekend of news about it I’m not sure I’m going to be able to suppprt him anymore.  I thought about it a lot this weekend and I can forgive stupid tweets but this is just inhumane. 
    I think you've hit the nail on the head. He is definitely gambling on this inhumane policy to force democrats to concede on the bill he wants to support the wall.This is creating the outrage necessary to force action, but the damage it's causing to actual people is irreversible and disgusting.
    It's a hopeless situation...
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,234
    Well trump fucked this up.  He’s gotta stop this, it’s obviously outrageous to do this to children.  Get them back to their parents and send them all back.  Does he think he’s going to get wall money or something by running with this?  If he doesn’t fix this today after the weekend of news about it I’m not sure I’m going to be able to suppprt him anymore.  I thought about it a lot this weekend and I can forgive stupid tweets but this is just inhumane. 
    excellent. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,234
    how much is it costing to house and feed all these people? wouldn't it be cheaper to just put them on a fucking bus and send them back home?

    even melania and many of trump's high ranking supporters are outraged at this. 

    trump is an even bigger pile of shit than I ever thought he was. I didn't think that was possible. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

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    BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 10,606
    edited June 2018
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    oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,844
    Oh, wait - now they claim there isn't such a policy. After announcing it and publishing information documents on their policy and making statements on it and Trump blaming it on the Dems, now the WH claims there actually isn't such a policy. 

    Phew, it's all all right, then. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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    BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 10,606
    Oh, wait - now they claim there isn't such a policy. After announcing it and publishing sinformation documents on their policy and making statements on it and Trump blaming it on the Dems, now the WH claims there actually isn't such a policy. 

    Phew, it's all all right, then. 
    Keep up.....


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    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,137
    edited June 2018
    Oh, wait - now they claim there isn't such a policy. After announcing it and publishing information documents on their policy and making statements on it and Trump blaming it on the Dems, now the WH claims there actually isn't such a policy. 

    Phew, it's all all right, then. 
    I’ve seen it said from multiple sources the policy Trump keeps referring to is children must be separated from their parents if they aren’t really  not their parents, the child is in danger, or if the parents are being prosecuted.
    Very rarely was anyone ever prosecuted before, but Trumps policy is to prosecute parents, and based on the previous policy they are to be separated.
    Thus the back and forth blaming. Trump is blaming the previous policy while dems blame Trump for the separation by prosecuting the parents.
    Can you or anyone else correct that if it is wrong?
    Post edited by mace1229 on
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    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,137
    I just heard on CBS news this morning, in a pretty anti-Trump segment even, that most cases the children are only separated for a few hours.
    The only excpetions are if they don’t plead guilty (which almost all do) or if there are prior offenses.
    i have nothing wrong with that if that’s true. Separating a kid for a couple hours so they can go through court proceedings is really not a big deal. There are plenty of things parents must do where children are not allowed. And if the child is kept for days or weeks because of a prior record, then that’s on the parent too.
    I couldn’t find any other sources discuss the length of time, so I’m assuming that CBS report is accurate.
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    oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,844
    mace1229 said:
    I just heard on CBS news this morning, in a pretty anti-Trump segment even, that most cases the children are only separated for a few hours.
    The only excpetions are if they don’t plead guilty (which almost all do) or if there are prior offenses.
    i have nothing wrong with that if that’s true. Separating a kid for a couple hours so they can go through court proceedings is really not a big deal. There are plenty of things parents must do where children are not allowed. And if the child is kept for days or weeks because of a prior record, then that’s on the parent too.
    I couldn’t find any other sources discuss the length of time, so I’m assuming that CBS report is accurate.
    I don’t have time to go into it in full but I heard a report this weekend that the average length of stay for kids in these facilities is 50 days. The Trump administration wouldn’t release the longest length of stay data. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,137
    edited June 2018
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Why don’t I Remember this thread when Obama was doing the same exact thing in 2013?
    Mostly because he wasn’t doing exactly the same thing. In fact, no where close, which is clear from the info in this thread. 
    Let s go Newsweek as a source:

    There is a big difference. Those were unaccompanied minors, not children being separated.
    But they way they were held was exactly the same. So those who are “outraged” over the tents and cages, but didn’t speak up a few years ago I can easily dismiss as just jumping on the anti-Trump bandwagon.
    Those who focus their anger at the separation have a legitimate issue.
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    oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,844
    Addendum to my comment above - the 50 day figure is from the administration itself, given out to the reporters who were allowed to tour that facility last week. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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    dignindignin Posts: 9,322
    Well trump fucked this up.  He’s gotta stop this, it’s obviously outrageous to do this to children.  Get them back to their parents and send them all back.  Does he think he’s going to get wall money or something by running with this?  If he doesn’t fix this today after the weekend of news about it I’m not sure I’m going to be able to suppprt him anymore.  I thought about it a lot this weekend and I can forgive stupid tweets but this is just inhumane. 
    Good to hear.
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    treestrees Columbus OHIO Posts: 1,852
    This is wrong and should of never happened,ever.


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