MLB 2025 World Series

tempo_n_groove

igotid88 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I unearthed this little gem too

In 2001, following his retirement, the New York Daily News' columnist Bill Madden wrote:

"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."

And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on  his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters. 

He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.

Hall worthy numbers?

Hits? 1700, nope.
HR? 381, nope.
Runs?  974, nope.
SB?  88, nope.  Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...

What stats does he have that places him in the HOF?  It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.

For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers.  If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs...  All of which Mr.Belle did not.

So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when  3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.

Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his  career, based on a 162 games  .295   40 HR   130 RBI's) >Probably  a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?

                           G   PA   AB   R    H         2B 3B   HR   RBI    SB   CS     BB       SO     AVG.     OBP       SLG   OPS   OPS+   TB        

162 Game Avg. 162 703 616 103 182       41  2    40   130       9    4        72      101     .295       .369      .564 .    933     144     347 

Check out his stats and notice he has a lot of Bold print:    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belleal01.shtml

Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.   

Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.

Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.

Had 3000 hits.

Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs.  The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.

He also won 4GG.

He belongs in.

Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry...  Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.

Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance.  Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.

I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.

By that logic Mattingly should be in then.  

Nope.

Ryan Howard should get in.

Nope.

Writers use your logic as of late, they have with Guerrero, Trammel, Morris, Hoffman and Raines.

None of them should be in.

There are a few more over the years that I scratch my head at also...

Again Biggio is 15th all-time in runs.  Take a look at the five others below him.

But hey, we can disagree.  I know you're wrong, lol.

Mattingly should get in

Stop it, stop!!!!

cutz

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I unearthed this little gem too

In 2001, following his retirement, the New York Daily News' columnist Bill Madden wrote:

"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."

And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on  his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters. 

He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.

Hall worthy numbers?

Hits? 1700, nope.
HR? 381, nope.
Runs?  974, nope.
SB?  88, nope.  Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...

What stats does he have that places him in the HOF?  It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.

For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers.  If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs...  All of which Mr.Belle did not.

So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when  3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.

Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his  career, based on a 162 games  .295   40 HR   130 RBI's) >Probably  a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?

                           G   PA   AB   R    H         2B 3B   HR   RBI    SB   CS     BB       SO     AVG.     OBP       SLG   OPS   OPS+   TB        

162 Game Avg. 162 703 616 103 182       41  2    40   130       9    4        72      101     .295       .369      .564 .    933     144     347 

Check out his stats and notice he has a lot of Bold print:    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belleal01.shtml

Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.   

Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.

Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.

Had 3000 hits.

Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs.  The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.

He also won 4GG.

He belongs in.

Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry...  Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.

Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance.  Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.

I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.

By that logic Mattingly should be in then.  

Nope.

Ryan Howard should get in.

Nope.

Writers use your logic as of late, they have with Guerrero, Trammel, Morris, Hoffman and Raines.

None of them should be in.

There are a few more over the years that I scratch my head at also...

Again Biggio is 15th all-time in runs.  Take a look at the five others below him.

But hey, we can disagree.  I know you're wrong, lol.

igotid88

tempo_n_groove said:

igotid88 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I unearthed this little gem too

In 2001, following his retirement, the New York Daily News' columnist Bill Madden wrote:

"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."

And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on  his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters. 

He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.

Hall worthy numbers?

Hits? 1700, nope.
HR? 381, nope.
Runs?  974, nope.
SB?  88, nope.  Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...

What stats does he have that places him in the HOF?  It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.

For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers.  If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs...  All of which Mr.Belle did not.

So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when  3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.

Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his  career, based on a 162 games  .295   40 HR   130 RBI's) >Probably  a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?

                           G   PA   AB   R    H         2B 3B   HR   RBI    SB   CS     BB       SO     AVG.     OBP       SLG   OPS   OPS+   TB        

162 Game Avg. 162 703 616 103 182       41  2    40   130       9    4        72      101     .295       .369      .564 .    933     144     347 

Check out his stats and notice he has a lot of Bold print:    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belleal01.shtml

Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.   

Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.

Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.

Had 3000 hits.

Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs.  The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.

He also won 4GG.

He belongs in.

Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry...  Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.

Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance.  Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.

I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.

By that logic Mattingly should be in then.  

Nope.

Ryan Howard should get in.

Nope.

Writers use your logic as of late, they have with Guerrero, Trammel, Morris, Hoffman and Raines.

None of them should be in.

There are a few more over the years that I scratch my head at also...

Again Biggio is 15th all-time in runs.  Take a look at the five others below him.

But hey, we can disagree.  I know you're wrong, lol.

Mattingly should get in

Stop it, stop!!!!

never. 

cutz

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I unearthed this little gem too

In 2001, following his retirement, the New York Daily News' columnist Bill Madden wrote:

"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."

And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on  his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters. 

He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.

Hall worthy numbers?

Hits? 1700, nope.
HR? 381, nope.
Runs?  974, nope.
SB?  88, nope.  Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...

What stats does he have that places him in the HOF?  It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.

For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers.  If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs...  All of which Mr.Belle did not.

So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when  3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.

Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his  career, based on a 162 games  .295   40 HR   130 RBI's) >Probably  a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?

                           G   PA   AB   R    H         2B 3B   HR   RBI    SB   CS     BB       SO     AVG.     OBP       SLG   OPS   OPS+   TB        

162 Game Avg. 162 703 616 103 182       41  2    40   130       9    4        72      101     .295       .369      .564 .    933     144     347 

Check out his stats and notice he has a lot of Bold print:    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belleal01.shtml

Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.   

Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.

Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.

Had 3000 hits.

Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs.  The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.

He also won 4GG.

He belongs in.

Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry...  Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.

Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance.  Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.

I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.

By that logic Mattingly should be in then.  

Nope.

Ryan Howard should get in.

Nope.

Writers use your logic as of late, they have with Guerrero, Trammel, Morris, Hoffman and Raines.

None of them should be in.

There are a few more over the years that I scratch my head at also...

Again Biggio is 15th all-time in runs.  Take a look at the five others below him.

But hey, we can disagree.  I know you're wrong, lol.

Mattingly(5) & Howard(6) had about half the Prime year's Stats that Belle(10) had, and no, they should not be in. Belle should.

Not logic, when 12 seasons  a player avg.  is .295  40 HR & 130 RBI, tells me a HOFer.  I know i would take that on my team for 12 years. Would you? I agree with you when i think of Trammel, Morris, Hoffman, i don't automatically think HOFers. Valdimir Guerrero i do think HOF. He was a 5-Tool player.

Johnny Damon scored more runs the Ken Griffey JR. 

And yes, we can disagree, but i think  both of us might be   wrong>LOL

cutz

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1646661

Report: Harper rebuffed 'aggressive offer' from Nationals in September

Jason Wilson

2h ago

Dilip Vishwanat / Getty Images Sport / Getty

The Washington Nationals reportedly offered star outfielder Bryce Harper a new long-term contract to stay with the club on the last day of the regular season, according to Chelsea Janes of the Washington Post.

It was apparently "an aggressive offer," though it did not include any opt-outs and was said to be worth less than $400 million.

Harper did not take the deal, electing instead to explore free agency.

While the length of the offer is unknown, it was reportedly worth about $30-million per season, according to Bob Nightengale of USA TODAY Sports.

General manager Mike Rizzo explained, per Janes, the team was trying to get a head start with Harper before he hit the open market during negotiations throughout September.

"(We) took advantage of our exclusivity late in the season," he said, "(but) couldn't reach a deal."

The Nationals extended a qualifying offer to the former National League MVP last week, so if he does sign with a new team, Washington will receive a supplemental draft pick in 2019 as compensation.

tempo_n_groove

cutz said:

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1646661

Report: Harper rebuffed 'aggressive offer' from Nationals in September

Jason Wilson

2h ago

Dilip Vishwanat / Getty Images Sport / Getty

The Washington Nationals reportedly offered star outfielder Bryce Harper a new long-term contract to stay with the club on the last day of the regular season, according to Chelsea Janes of the Washington Post.

It was apparently "an aggressive offer," though it did not include any opt-outs and was said to be worth less than $400 million.

Harper did not take the deal, electing instead to explore free agency.

While the length of the offer is unknown, it was reportedly worth about $30-million per season, according to Bob Nightengale of USA TODAY Sports.

General manager Mike Rizzo explained, per Janes, the team was trying to get a head start with Harper before he hit the open market during negotiations throughout September.

"(We) took advantage of our exclusivity late in the season," he said, "(but) couldn't reach a deal."

The Nationals extended a qualifying offer to the former National League MVP last week, so if he does sign with a new team, Washington will receive a supplemental draft pick in 2019 as compensation.

I wouldn't do any 10 year deals with a player ever...  Too much can happen over that period of time.

Has any 10yr deal been great?

Is Bonilla's contract up yet?

tempo_n_groove

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I unearthed this little gem too

In 2001, following his retirement, the New York Daily News' columnist Bill Madden wrote:

"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."

And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on  his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters. 

He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.

Hall worthy numbers?

Hits? 1700, nope.
HR? 381, nope.
Runs?  974, nope.
SB?  88, nope.  Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...

What stats does he have that places him in the HOF?  It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.

For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers.  If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs...  All of which Mr.Belle did not.

So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when  3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.

Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his  career, based on a 162 games  .295   40 HR   130 RBI's) >Probably  a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?

                           G   PA   AB   R    H         2B 3B   HR   RBI    SB   CS     BB       SO     AVG.     OBP       SLG   OPS   OPS+   TB        

162 Game Avg. 162 703 616 103 182       41  2    40   130       9    4        72      101     .295       .369      .564 .    933     144     347 

Check out his stats and notice he has a lot of Bold print:    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belleal01.shtml

Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.   

Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.

Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.

Had 3000 hits.

Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs.  The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.

He also won 4GG.

He belongs in.

Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry...  Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.

Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance.  Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.

I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.

By that logic Mattingly should be in then.  

Nope.

Ryan Howard should get in.

Nope.

Writers use your logic as of late, they have with Guerrero, Trammel, Morris, Hoffman and Raines.

None of them should be in.

There are a few more over the years that I scratch my head at also...

Again Biggio is 15th all-time in runs.  Take a look at the five others below him.

But hey, we can disagree.  I know you're wrong, lol.

Mattingly(5) & Howard(6) had about half the Prime year's Stats that Belle(10) had, and no, they should not be in. Belle should.

Not logic, when 12 seasons  a player avg.  is .295  40 HR & 130 RBI, tells me a HOFer.  I know i would take that on my team for 12 years. Would you? I agree with you when i think of Trammel, Morris, Hoffman, i don't automatically think HOFers. Valdimir Guerrero i do think HOF. He was a 5-Tool player.

Johnny Damon scored more runs the Ken Griffey JR. 

And yes, we can disagree, but i think  both of us might be   wrong>LOL

10 years does not make you a HOFer.  This isn't Football.

The Damon stat to JR is just silly.  JR was so much more of a player.  He did steal a lot of bases though.

If you go by WAR Belle is only 40, Biggio is 65, Damon 56 and Griffey at 86.

That is a weird stat but it holds merit in a lot of arguments.

pjhawks

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I unearthed this little gem too

In 2001, following his retirement, the New York Daily News' columnist Bill Madden wrote:

"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."

And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on  his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters. 

He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.

Hall worthy numbers?

Hits? 1700, nope.
HR? 381, nope.
Runs?  974, nope.
SB?  88, nope.  Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...

What stats does he have that places him in the HOF?  It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.

For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers.  If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs...  All of which Mr.Belle did not.

So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when  3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.

Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his  career, based on a 162 games  .295   40 HR   130 RBI's) >Probably  a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?

                           G   PA   AB   R    H         2B 3B   HR   RBI    SB   CS     BB       SO     AVG.     OBP       SLG   OPS   OPS+   TB        

162 Game Avg. 162 703 616 103 182       41  2    40   130       9    4        72      101     .295       .369      .564 .    933     144     347 

Check out his stats and notice he has a lot of Bold print:    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belleal01.shtml

Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.   

Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.

Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.

Had 3000 hits.

Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs.  The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.

He also won 4GG.

He belongs in.

Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry...  Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.

Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance.  Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.

I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.

Agree with you here.  If you were never one of the top 10 or so players in your league at any time in your career I don't think you belong in the Hall of Fame.  Biggio was very good but at no point was he really considered one of the best players in his league.  For Hall of Fame a few dominant years means more to me than a long career piling up stats.  

tempo_n_groove

pjhawks said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I unearthed this little gem too

In 2001, following his retirement, the New York Daily News' columnist Bill Madden wrote:

"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."

And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on  his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters. 

He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.

Hall worthy numbers?

Hits? 1700, nope.
HR? 381, nope.
Runs?  974, nope.
SB?  88, nope.  Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...

What stats does he have that places him in the HOF?  It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.

For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers.  If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs...  All of which Mr.Belle did not.

So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when  3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.

Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his  career, based on a 162 games  .295   40 HR   130 RBI's) >Probably  a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?

                           G   PA   AB   R    H         2B 3B   HR   RBI    SB   CS     BB       SO     AVG.     OBP       SLG   OPS   OPS+   TB        

162 Game Avg. 162 703 616 103 182       41  2    40   130       9    4        72      101     .295       .369      .564 .    933     144     347 

Check out his stats and notice he has a lot of Bold print:    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belleal01.shtml

Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.   

Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.

Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.

Had 3000 hits.

Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs.  The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.

He also won 4GG.

He belongs in.

Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry...  Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.

Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance.  Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.

I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.

Agree with you here.  If you were never one of the top 10 or so players in your league at any time in your career I don't think you belong in the Hall of Fame.  Biggio was very good but at no point was he really considered one of the best players in his league.  For Hall of Fame a few dominant years means more to me than a long career piling up stats.  

Biggio was in the top 10 for MVP voting 3 times and an All-Star 7 times.

Again with thinking like that you'd have some killer players with short bursts.  

Baseball is about stats.  They all mean something, so if you hit one of those milestones you will be going to the HOF.

I also think Palmiero, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and A-Rod should be in too.

Wobbie

will clark > don mattingly.

tempo_n_groove

Wobbie said:

will clark > don mattingly.

oooooh.  Good one!

Cliffy6745

So as expected, the starting offer for Harper is 10 years, $300 mil.

tempo_n_groove

Cliffy6745 said:

So as expected, the starting offer for Harper is 10 years, $300 mil.

He will get 350+ , no?

Cliffy6745

tempo_n_groove said:

Cliffy6745 said:

So as expected, the starting offer for Harper is 10 years, $300 mil.

He will get 350+ , no?

I think so, yeah.

tempo_n_groove

Cliffy6745 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Cliffy6745 said:

So as expected, the starting offer for Harper is 10 years, $300 mil.

He will get 350+ , no?

I think so, yeah.

I'm still not sold on a 10yr deal...

pjhawks

tempo_n_groove said:

pjhawks said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I unearthed this little gem too

In 2001, following his retirement, the New York Daily News' columnist Bill Madden wrote:

"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."

And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on  his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters. 

He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.

Hall worthy numbers?

Hits? 1700, nope.
HR? 381, nope.
Runs?  974, nope.
SB?  88, nope.  Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...

What stats does he have that places him in the HOF?  It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.

For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers.  If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs...  All of which Mr.Belle did not.

So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when  3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.

Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his  career, based on a 162 games  .295   40 HR   130 RBI's) >Probably  a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?

                           G   PA   AB   R    H         2B 3B   HR   RBI    SB   CS     BB       SO     AVG.     OBP       SLG   OPS   OPS+   TB        

162 Game Avg. 162 703 616 103 182       41  2    40   130       9    4        72      101     .295       .369      .564 .    933     144     347 

Check out his stats and notice he has a lot of Bold print:    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belleal01.shtml

Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.   

Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.

Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.

Had 3000 hits.

Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs.  The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.

He also won 4GG.

He belongs in.

Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry...  Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.

Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance.  Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.

I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.

Agree with you here.  If you were never one of the top 10 or so players in your league at any time in your career I don't think you belong in the Hall of Fame.  Biggio was very good but at no point was he really considered one of the best players in his league.  For Hall of Fame a few dominant years means more to me than a long career piling up stats.  

Biggio was in the top 10 for MVP voting 3 times and an All-Star 7 times.

Again with thinking like that you'd have some killer players with short bursts.  

Baseball is about stats.  They all mean something, so if you hit one of those milestones you will be going to the HOF.

I also think Palmiero, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and A-Rod should be in too.

Like Sandy Koufax.  so yes killer bursts deserve consideration. Would you rather have 7 great seasons or 13 good ones?  To me a burst of greatness is better than a longevity of good seasons.  

Cliffy6745

tempo_n_groove said:

Cliffy6745 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Cliffy6745 said:

So as expected, the starting offer for Harper is 10 years, $300 mil.

He will get 350+ , no?

I think so, yeah.

I'm still not sold on a 10yr deal...

He's 25. He's definitely getting at least a 10 year deal.  The hope would be that he opts out after 5 and leaves, right? You get 5 of his likely best years and he gets another big contract?

tempo_n_groove

pjhawks said:

tempo_n_groove said:

pjhawks said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I unearthed this little gem too

In 2001, following his retirement, the New York Daily News' columnist Bill Madden wrote:

"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."

And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on  his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters. 

He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.

Hall worthy numbers?

Hits? 1700, nope.
HR? 381, nope.
Runs?  974, nope.
SB?  88, nope.  Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...

What stats does he have that places him in the HOF?  It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.

For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers.  If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs...  All of which Mr.Belle did not.

So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when  3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.

Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his  career, based on a 162 games  .295   40 HR   130 RBI's) >Probably  a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?

                           G   PA   AB   R    H         2B 3B   HR   RBI    SB   CS     BB       SO     AVG.     OBP       SLG   OPS   OPS+   TB        

162 Game Avg. 162 703 616 103 182       41  2    40   130       9    4        72      101     .295       .369      .564 .    933     144     347 

Check out his stats and notice he has a lot of Bold print:    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belleal01.shtml

Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.   

Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.

Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.

Had 3000 hits.

Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs.  The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.

He also won 4GG.

He belongs in.

Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry...  Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.

Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance.  Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.

I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.

Agree with you here.  If you were never one of the top 10 or so players in your league at any time in your career I don't think you belong in the Hall of Fame.  Biggio was very good but at no point was he really considered one of the best players in his league.  For Hall of Fame a few dominant years means more to me than a long career piling up stats.  

Biggio was in the top 10 for MVP voting 3 times and an All-Star 7 times.

Again with thinking like that you'd have some killer players with short bursts.  

Baseball is about stats.  They all mean something, so if you hit one of those milestones you will be going to the HOF.

I also think Palmiero, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and A-Rod should be in too.

Like Sandy Koufax.  so yes killer bursts deserve consideration. Would you rather have 7 great seasons or 13 good ones?  To me a burst of greatness is better than a longevity of good seasons.  

Koufax is the ONLY player with that few good seasons to get in the HOF.  He had 6 years?

Dimaggio only played 13 years but Belle isn't Dimaggio, not by a long shot.

The only other players that get in the HOF with insignificant numbers is by the Veterans Committee or whatever it is now.  They vote in a bunch of players that should not get in like Ashburn and Irvin...

Good players but not great.

I think Belle was good but not HOF material...

pjhawks

tempo_n_groove said:

pjhawks said:

tempo_n_groove said:

pjhawks said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I unearthed this little gem too

In 2001, following his retirement, the New York Daily News' columnist Bill Madden wrote:

"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."

And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on  his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters. 

He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.

Hall worthy numbers?

Hits? 1700, nope.
HR? 381, nope.
Runs?  974, nope.
SB?  88, nope.  Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...

What stats does he have that places him in the HOF?  It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.

For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers.  If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs...  All of which Mr.Belle did not.

So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when  3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.

Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his  career, based on a 162 games  .295   40 HR   130 RBI's) >Probably  a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?

                           G   PA   AB   R    H         2B 3B   HR   RBI    SB   CS     BB       SO     AVG.     OBP       SLG   OPS   OPS+   TB        

162 Game Avg. 162 703 616 103 182       41  2    40   130       9    4        72      101     .295       .369      .564 .    933     144     347 

Check out his stats and notice he has a lot of Bold print:    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belleal01.shtml

Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.   

Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.

Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.

Had 3000 hits.

Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs.  The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.

He also won 4GG.

He belongs in.

Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry...  Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.

Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance.  Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.

I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.

Agree with you here.  If you were never one of the top 10 or so players in your league at any time in your career I don't think you belong in the Hall of Fame.  Biggio was very good but at no point was he really considered one of the best players in his league.  For Hall of Fame a few dominant years means more to me than a long career piling up stats.  

Biggio was in the top 10 for MVP voting 3 times and an All-Star 7 times.

Again with thinking like that you'd have some killer players with short bursts.  

Baseball is about stats.  They all mean something, so if you hit one of those milestones you will be going to the HOF.

I also think Palmiero, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and A-Rod should be in too.

Like Sandy Koufax.  so yes killer bursts deserve consideration. Would you rather have 7 great seasons or 13 good ones?  To me a burst of greatness is better than a longevity of good seasons.  

Koufax is the ONLY player with that few good seasons to get in the HOF.  He had 6 years?

Dimaggio only played 13 years but Belle isn't Dimaggio, not by a long shot.

The only other players that get in the HOF with insignificant numbers is by the Veterans Committee or whatever it is now.  They vote in a bunch of players that should not get in like Ashburn and Irvin...

Good players but not great.

I think Belle was good but not HOF material...

If you don't look at just the numbers do you think Craig Biggio was a better player than Albert Belle, Don Mattingly, Will Clark, Ryan Howard?  I don't

tempo_n_groove

pjhawks said:

tempo_n_groove said:

pjhawks said:

tempo_n_groove said:

pjhawks said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cutz said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I unearthed this little gem too

In 2001, following his retirement, the New York Daily News' columnist Bill Madden wrote:

"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."

And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on  his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters. 

He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.

Hall worthy numbers?

Hits? 1700, nope.
HR? 381, nope.
Runs?  974, nope.
SB?  88, nope.  Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...

What stats does he have that places him in the HOF?  It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.

For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers.  If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs...  All of which Mr.Belle did not.

So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when  3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.

Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his  career, based on a 162 games  .295   40 HR   130 RBI's) >Probably  a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?

                           G   PA   AB   R    H         2B 3B   HR   RBI    SB   CS     BB       SO     AVG.     OBP       SLG   OPS   OPS+   TB        

162 Game Avg. 162 703 616 103 182       41  2    40   130       9    4        72      101     .295       .369      .564 .    933     144     347 

Check out his stats and notice he has a lot of Bold print:    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belleal01.shtml

Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.   

Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.

Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.

Had 3000 hits.

Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs.  The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.

He also won 4GG.

He belongs in.

Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry...  Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.

Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance.  Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.

I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.

Agree with you here.  If you were never one of the top 10 or so players in your league at any time in your career I don't think you belong in the Hall of Fame.  Biggio was very good but at no point was he really considered one of the best players in his league.  For Hall of Fame a few dominant years means more to me than a long career piling up stats.  

Biggio was in the top 10 for MVP voting 3 times and an All-Star 7 times.

Again with thinking like that you'd have some killer players with short bursts.  

Baseball is about stats.  They all mean something, so if you hit one of those milestones you will be going to the HOF.

I also think Palmiero, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and A-Rod should be in too.

Like Sandy Koufax.  so yes killer bursts deserve consideration. Would you rather have 7 great seasons or 13 good ones?  To me a burst of greatness is better than a longevity of good seasons.  

Koufax is the ONLY player with that few good seasons to get in the HOF.  He had 6 years?

Dimaggio only played 13 years but Belle isn't Dimaggio, not by a long shot.

The only other players that get in the HOF with insignificant numbers is by the Veterans Committee or whatever it is now.  They vote in a bunch of players that should not get in like Ashburn and Irvin...

Good players but not great.

I think Belle was good but not HOF material...

If you don't look at just the numbers do you think Craig Biggio was a better player than Albert Belle, Don Mattingly, Will Clark, Ryan Howard?  I don't

I do. Over time.  Better fielder sans Mattingly.  Better base stealer.  Gritty player.  The 4 you mentioned weren't gritty.

I appreciate longevity too which the 4 you mentioned do not have.

If Mattingly played at his peak the last 5 years of playing he would have some serious numbers.  

That is just me though.

The other guys won't get in the HOF because of 10 years of good.  Living through all these players careers Mattingly is the most nostalgic.  He was the best player in the game for a few years but I wouldn't put him in for that.