MLB 2025 World Series

mrussel1

bbiggs said:

The Juggler said:

And back to the Posey rule.....does it really keep catchers that much safer? We're we really losing a lot of catchers to debilitating injuries on a yearly basis prior to one, high profile player got hurt? I think the rule is/was a classic reactive overreach.

https://hub.jhu.edu/2015/09/08/catcher-injuries-baseball/

Perfectly said.  And I'll add the Utley rule to that as well. 

Yeah... it does keep them safer.  And if it saves one catastrophic injury per year or 5 minor ones, then it's worth it.  

pjhawks

mrussel1 said:

pjhawks said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

DewieCox said:

bbiggs said:

DewieCox said:

The rules fine. The call was fine. Contreras did what he had to do, but the runners easily safe if he’s not blocking the plate.

Yeah, he's safe if he doesn't block the plate, but blocking the plate was part of the game for over a century and was always considered a good/clean baseball play.  I hate this rule. It really is turning the game into a sissy game. It's a shame what happened to Buster Posey, but those outcomes are the extreme exception and not the norm.  Let them play baseball.  They're grown men. 

Really? As if it was so much more manly and physical before.

It makes more sense to have it the way it is now. If the throw carries the catcher into the path it’s legal, otherwise keep them from scoring the run by playing the game. Fielders can’t block the path to any other base.

If it helps keep the best catcher available day after day, then  why not. 

Home plate is not the same as any other base. The rule flies in the face of the way the game has been played for 170 some years. 

Who cares how it was played for 100 years?  The game is best when the best players play it.  It's precisely why I don't want pitchers hitting and running bases.  They suck at it and it kills the flow of a game.  Well, injured players and AAA level players calling balls and strikes sucks too.  So protect the players.  Protect the game.

I CARE! I CARE!

You like the designated hitter so your opinion does not matter much anyway.

Baseball, like any other sport, needs to be adjusted over time to make it the most interesting game possible. DH makes the game more interesting.  Having the best players healthy makes the game more interesting.  I can't help it if you hate good things.  

how does the DH make the game more interesting? and how does the DH make the players more healthy?  Don't tel me ab out pitchers getting hurt batting because pitching to a DH puts more strain on a pitcher's arm than batting.  There is less strategy in the AL with the DH and the games are longer.  the AL game stinks compared to the NL

These were two disparate statements.  But one is actually connected to the other:
1. The Posey rule (the initial debate point) absolutely makes the game safer.  
2. DH, in my opinion, is more interesting.  Yes a double switch is just fucking fascinating for all of 30 seconds in the late innings and post season, but 98% of the time, it's just a wasted out.  I'd rather see a competent pitcher match up against a competent hitter.  If you have any appreciation of the art of pitching, it's much better to watch a pitch really work a hitter through different locations and pitch speeds.  Seeing a pitcher throw three fast balls by the opposing pitcher sucks.  8 competent hitters and a patsy is not better.

it's about strategy not the 30 seconds that the double switch actually occurs. there is a lot more thought that goes into managing in the NL than in the AL. A robot could manage in the AL. 

the Posey rule I am 50/50 on .  I don't think a player should ever have been allowed to barrel over the catcher full steam like you were before the rule. that being said the way the rule is written now has gone to far. no way the play the other night should be illegal for the catcher. the rule was intended to protect the catchers but has put the onus on the catchers not the runners who were barreling over them. i don't think that is the right way to go about it.

bbiggs

mrussel1 said:

bbiggs said:

The Juggler said:

And back to the Posey rule.....does it really keep catchers that much safer? We're we really losing a lot of catchers to debilitating injuries on a yearly basis prior to one, high profile player got hurt? I think the rule is/was a classic reactive overreach.

https://hub.jhu.edu/2015/09/08/catcher-injuries-baseball/

Perfectly said.  And I'll add the Utley rule to that as well. 

Yeah... it does keep them safer.  And if it saves one catastrophic injury per year or 5 minor ones, then it's worth it.  

There was nowhere near one catastrophic injury (like Utley's) per year prior to this rule.  If a player makes a hard, CLEAN slide into 2nd base to break up a double play, that's good fundamental baseball.  This rule has eliminated that clean play. I'm not condoning a player that comes in high with his cleats.  There never was a place for that in baseball and it can obviously cause serious injury.  But a good fundamental hard slide should be a part of the game, and unfortunately has been removed due to another over reach by MLB. 

HesCalledDyer

pjhawks said:

mrussel1 said:

pjhawks said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

DewieCox said:

bbiggs said:

DewieCox said:

The rules fine. The call was fine. Contreras did what he had to do, but the runners easily safe if he’s not blocking the plate.

Yeah, he's safe if he doesn't block the plate, but blocking the plate was part of the game for over a century and was always considered a good/clean baseball play.  I hate this rule. It really is turning the game into a sissy game. It's a shame what happened to Buster Posey, but those outcomes are the extreme exception and not the norm.  Let them play baseball.  They're grown men. 

Really? As if it was so much more manly and physical before.

It makes more sense to have it the way it is now. If the throw carries the catcher into the path it’s legal, otherwise keep them from scoring the run by playing the game. Fielders can’t block the path to any other base.

If it helps keep the best catcher available day after day, then  why not. 

Home plate is not the same as any other base. The rule flies in the face of the way the game has been played for 170 some years. 

Who cares how it was played for 100 years?  The game is best when the best players play it.  It's precisely why I don't want pitchers hitting and running bases.  They suck at it and it kills the flow of a game.  Well, injured players and AAA level players calling balls and strikes sucks too.  So protect the players.  Protect the game.

I CARE! I CARE!

You like the designated hitter so your opinion does not matter much anyway.

Baseball, like any other sport, needs to be adjusted over time to make it the most interesting game possible. DH makes the game more interesting.  Having the best players healthy makes the game more interesting.  I can't help it if you hate good things.  

how does the DH make the game more interesting? and how does the DH make the players more healthy?  Don't tel me ab out pitchers getting hurt batting because pitching to a DH puts more strain on a pitcher's arm than batting.  There is less strategy in the AL with the DH and the games are longer.  the AL game stinks compared to the NL

These were two disparate statements.  But one is actually connected to the other:
1. The Posey rule (the initial debate point) absolutely makes the game safer.  
2. DH, in my opinion, is more interesting.  Yes a double switch is just fucking fascinating for all of 30 seconds in the late innings and post season, but 98% of the time, it's just a wasted out.  I'd rather see a competent pitcher match up against a competent hitter.  If you have any appreciation of the art of pitching, it's much better to watch a pitch really work a hitter through different locations and pitch speeds.  Seeing a pitcher throw three fast balls by the opposing pitcher sucks.  8 competent hitters and a patsy is not better.

it's about strategy not the 30 seconds that the double switch actually occurs. there is a lot more thought that goes into managing in the NL than in the AL. A robot could manage in the AL. 

the Posey rule I am 50/50 on .  I don't think a player should ever have been allowed to barrel over the catcher full steam like you were before the rule. that being said the way the rule is written now has gone to far. no way the play the other night should be illegal for the catcher. the rule was intended to protect the catchers but has put the onus on the catchers not the runners who were barreling over them. i don't think that is the right way to go about it.

That's exactly how I see it.  I'm all for protecting the players, but the rule has surpassed it's intention and has made what was a perfectly legal defensive play for over a century now illegal.  They've written the rule so the catcher has less right to get the runner out on a bang-bang play, such as Contreras' play the other night.

The Juggler

I think the NBA should adopt a Designated Free Throw Shooter rule.

This will eliminate us viewers being subjected to players like Andre Drummond being forced to make a foul shot! Who wants to see that? Bring in the ol' designated free throw shooter off the bench to drain those shots! It may increase scoring and possibly improve the flow of the game! This way, those big, lumbering centers can devote more of their time to other areas of the game where they excel. I love a great powerful center, but not at the foul line with a free shot praying it goes in more than 50% of the time. Offense is good for the game---get these guys off foul line! 

See how ridiculous this sounds with another sport? That's probably what the DH sounded like to people when it was first introduced. It's just ingrained into the game at this point that people are used to it....well, ingrained into the inferior American League game I should say.

bbiggs

^^ LOL!! 

mrussel1

The Juggler said:

I think the NBA should adopt a Designated Free Throw Shooter rule.

This will eliminate us viewers being subjected to players like Andre Drummond being forced to make a foul shot! Who wants to see that? Bring in the ol' designated free throw shooter off the bench to drain those shots! It may increase scoring and possibly improve the flow of the game! This way, those big, lumbering centers can devote more of their time to other areas of the game where they excel. I love a great powerful center, but not at the foul line with a free shot praying it goes in more than 50% of the time. Offense is good for the game---get these guys off foul line! 

See how ridiculous this sounds with another sport? That's probably what the DH sounded like to people when it was first introduced. It's just ingrained into the game at this point that people are used to it....well, ingrained into the inferior American League game I should say.

An interesting analogy but not quite the mark in my opinion.  Baseball is fundamentally about the pitcher/batter interaction.  That is the game.  Free throw shooting is not THE game in basketball.  It's important, but basketball specifically has rules to prohibit subbing in free throw shooters (if you're injured and can't shoot, you're out of the game).  But basketball is trying to eliminate the hack a shaq because...similar to my point about pitchers hitting...it inhibits the game.  

mrussel1

HesCalledDyer said:

pjhawks said:

mrussel1 said:

pjhawks said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

DewieCox said:

bbiggs said:

DewieCox said:

The rules fine. The call was fine. Contreras did what he had to do, but the runners easily safe if he’s not blocking the plate.

Yeah, he's safe if he doesn't block the plate, but blocking the plate was part of the game for over a century and was always considered a good/clean baseball play.  I hate this rule. It really is turning the game into a sissy game. It's a shame what happened to Buster Posey, but those outcomes are the extreme exception and not the norm.  Let them play baseball.  They're grown men. 

Really? As if it was so much more manly and physical before.

It makes more sense to have it the way it is now. If the throw carries the catcher into the path it’s legal, otherwise keep them from scoring the run by playing the game. Fielders can’t block the path to any other base.

If it helps keep the best catcher available day after day, then  why not. 

Home plate is not the same as any other base. The rule flies in the face of the way the game has been played for 170 some years. 

Who cares how it was played for 100 years?  The game is best when the best players play it.  It's precisely why I don't want pitchers hitting and running bases.  They suck at it and it kills the flow of a game.  Well, injured players and AAA level players calling balls and strikes sucks too.  So protect the players.  Protect the game.

I CARE! I CARE!

You like the designated hitter so your opinion does not matter much anyway.

Baseball, like any other sport, needs to be adjusted over time to make it the most interesting game possible. DH makes the game more interesting.  Having the best players healthy makes the game more interesting.  I can't help it if you hate good things.  

how does the DH make the game more interesting? and how does the DH make the players more healthy?  Don't tel me ab out pitchers getting hurt batting because pitching to a DH puts more strain on a pitcher's arm than batting.  There is less strategy in the AL with the DH and the games are longer.  the AL game stinks compared to the NL

These were two disparate statements.  But one is actually connected to the other:
1. The Posey rule (the initial debate point) absolutely makes the game safer.  
2. DH, in my opinion, is more interesting.  Yes a double switch is just fucking fascinating for all of 30 seconds in the late innings and post season, but 98% of the time, it's just a wasted out.  I'd rather see a competent pitcher match up against a competent hitter.  If you have any appreciation of the art of pitching, it's much better to watch a pitch really work a hitter through different locations and pitch speeds.  Seeing a pitcher throw three fast balls by the opposing pitcher sucks.  8 competent hitters and a patsy is not better.

it's about strategy not the 30 seconds that the double switch actually occurs. there is a lot more thought that goes into managing in the NL than in the AL. A robot could manage in the AL. 

the Posey rule I am 50/50 on .  I don't think a player should ever have been allowed to barrel over the catcher full steam like you were before the rule. that being said the way the rule is written now has gone to far. no way the play the other night should be illegal for the catcher. the rule was intended to protect the catchers but has put the onus on the catchers not the runners who were barreling over them. i don't think that is the right way to go about it.

That's exactly how I see it.  I'm all for protecting the players, but the rule has surpassed it's intention and has made what was a perfectly legal defensive play for over a century now illegal.  They've written the rule so the catcher has less right to get the runner out on a bang-bang play, such as Contreras' play the other night.

I'm not against tweaking the Posey rule, but barreling has no place in the game.  That's my point.  

The Juggler

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

I think the NBA should adopt a Designated Free Throw Shooter rule.

This will eliminate us viewers being subjected to players like Andre Drummond being forced to make a foul shot! Who wants to see that? Bring in the ol' designated free throw shooter off the bench to drain those shots! It may increase scoring and possibly improve the flow of the game! This way, those big, lumbering centers can devote more of their time to other areas of the game where they excel. I love a great powerful center, but not at the foul line with a free shot praying it goes in more than 50% of the time. Offense is good for the game---get these guys off foul line! 

See how ridiculous this sounds with another sport? That's probably what the DH sounded like to people when it was first introduced. It's just ingrained into the game at this point that people are used to it....well, ingrained into the inferior American League game I should say.

An interesting analogy but not quite the mark in my opinion.  Baseball is fundamentally about the pitcher/batter interaction.  That is the game.  Free throw shooting is not THE game in basketball.  It's important, but basketball specifically has rules to prohibit subbing in free throw shooters (if you're injured and can't shoot, you're out of the game).  But basketball is trying to eliminate the hack a shaq because...similar to my point about pitchers hitting...it inhibits the game.  

......well baseball USED to not allow part time players to hit for the pitchers. This would fundamentally change the game of basketball similar to how adding a part time player who only hits changed the game of American League baseball.

They're looking into making a rule change to prevent Hack a Shaq from happening (wow, look!--another sport who routinely alters their rules on a yearly basis)......but I seriously doubt they will incorporate a part time player who only has one job that replaces one of someone else's responsibilities. That's a drastic and unnecessary change, much like the designated hitter in the al.

Cliffy6745

Pitchers batting is stupid.  End of story.

The Juggler

Cliffy6745 said:

Pitchers batting is stupid.  End of story.

You enjoy an inferior brand of baseball, Cliff......not that there's anything wrong with that.

Cliffy6745

The Juggler said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Pitchers batting is stupid.  End of story.

You enjoy an inferior brand of baseball, Cliff......not that there's anything wrong with that.

Inferior baseball is watching a dipshit try to get down a bunt looking like it's the first time he held a bat.  I prefer taters.

MayDay10

Coming from a fan of an AL team:

Fuck the DH

igotid88

The NL needs a DH

The Juggler

igotid88 said:

The NL needs a DH

YOU need a dh

HesCalledDyer

Cliffy6745 said:

The Juggler said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Pitchers batting is stupid.  End of story.

You enjoy an inferior brand of baseball, Cliff......not that there's anything wrong with that.

Inferior baseball is watching a dipshit try to get down a bunt looking like it's the first time he held a bat.  I prefer taters.

Inferior baseball is watching a dipshit who can't field ride the pine while real men play defense.

HesCalledDyer

What was that about taters?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zLr-P6ALeQ

mrussel1

A bat can run into a heater once in a while.  

pjhawks

Cliffy6745 said:

The Juggler said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Pitchers batting is stupid.  End of story.

You enjoy an inferior brand of baseball, Cliff......not that there's anything wrong with that.

Inferior baseball is watching a dipshit try to get down a bunt looking like it's the first time he held a bat.  I prefer taters.

an AL manager could fall asleep on the bench during games and no one would notice. their job pretty much stops once they hand in a lineup card.

mrussel1

pjhawks said:

Cliffy6745 said:

The Juggler said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Pitchers batting is stupid.  End of story.

You enjoy an inferior brand of baseball, Cliff......not that there's anything wrong with that.

Inferior baseball is watching a dipshit try to get down a bunt looking like it's the first time he held a bat.  I prefer taters.

an AL manager could fall asleep on the bench during games and no one would notice. their job pretty much stops once they hand in a lineup card.

The over exaggeration on this page is really astounding...  In the regular season, I agree there's not a ton of in game management, but in the playoff there definitely is.  But at the end of the day, who the fuck cares?  For me, the question is whether the game is better or worse.  And pitchers hitting are shitty.