MLB 2024 Season

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  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 16,215

    This weekend we rock Portland
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 38,961
    Poncier said:

    This is funny as hell actually.

    So guru, who would u have voted for?

    Not sure if I'm guru or not, but of the guys on this year's ballot I'd have put in:
    ARoid
    Money Ramirez
    Beltre

    Helton I'm a no. More deserving than a Harold Baines, but still not quite HoF material.
    Mauer a maybe because he was a catcher for a good chunk of his career which has to account for something, otherwise his stats would keep him out IMO.

    Also, I'd have written in Clemens and Bonds. Those 2 not in Cooperstown is just wrong. There are definitely some juicers in there (Griffey, Piazza, Pudge Rodriguez), so no reason to exclude the 2 best players from the era.

    As for Wagner, looking at the small number of closer who've been inducted, I don't think Wagner measures up.
    I agree w everything u said except about  Wagner.

    Come Poseys time, he should get in too, the position and wear and tear should come into play.  Mauer is still a maybe from me as well as Posey but I have no problems w them getting in.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 38,961
    Losing track of who did and didn't juice...

    I'd have voted for Mauer, Beltre, Sheffield. And Utley & Rollins but I'm definitely biased there. No pitchers? Well none of 'em deserve it!

    You can use this for my takes. Here's Johnny!


    Johnny Come Lately  Rotten Tomatoes
  • cutzcutz Posts: 11,416
    Why NO Todd Helton for HOF?(for some of you)
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 16,215
    cutz said:
    Why NO Todd Helton for HOF?(for some of you)
    Had basically 2 great years (2000 & 2001) and those numbers certainly Coors Field inflated. Otherwise a very good player.

    Didn't hit any big milestones (3,000 hits, 400 HR)

    Falls just a bit short for me. (But there are worse guys in the hall as I mentioned with Baines).
    Hall is becoming a bit watered down.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,447
    cutz said:
    Why NO Todd Helton for HOF?(for some of you)
    never finished higher than #5 in the MVP voting. most years, he didn’t even place. that doesn’t exactly scream HOF.

    not sure larry walker was worthy either but maybe voters think their wretched franchise should be represented.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYC Posts: 9,064
    igotid88 said:
    Beltre I get. The other 2 were iffy. But they got in.
    100%.  I would not have voted for them.

    Wheres @xavier mcdaniel our resident baseball expert?
    Beltre is a hall of famer. I never have a problem with anyone getting in even if I don't necessarily think they're hall of famers. If they can get in congrats, it's a small amount of players who get in. I've felt Helton was, especially since his career average is .316. Mauer I wasn't really sure but as someone who still thinks batting average matters a .306 career average helps the cause. 
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,269
    Helton was great at home. Average away. Mauer gets a pass for his low numbers because he was a catcher. That's why I think Posey and Yadi get in even though they don't have great numbers as well 
    I miss igotid88
  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYC Posts: 9,064
    Helton's career road batting average was .287, which is hardly average.
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,447
    Helton's career road batting average was .287, which is hardly average.
    so, his home average was like .340 or something?
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo Philly Posts: 10,356
    I gotta look at him. I clearly researched all this very extensively.
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13;
    WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16;
    Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; SeaHearNow Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22

    Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,269
    Helton's career road batting average was .287, which is hardly average.
    It's good but not HOF numbers. I mean his home and away are not close at all. I'm not saying all HOFers have similar home and away numbers. But it's like he's 2 completely different players. He was able to take advantage of Coors Field
    I miss igotid88
  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYC Posts: 9,064
    either way he's in, so being in the small group who gets in should be congratulated.
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 38,961
    either way he's in, so being in the small group who gets in should be congratulated.
    yayy congrats...
  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYC Posts: 9,064
    Other road batting averages of some hall of famers
    Mickey Mantle .291, Ernie Banks .259. so in the context of even having an advantage of a ballpark like Coors .287 on the road is pretty good.
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
  • cutzcutz Posts: 11,416
    In  this articlehttps://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/2828858 

    Heton:

    Posted a 121 wRC+ while his teammates averaged 79.5 wRC+

    The Hall remains too exclusive, but is change coming?

    2d ago
    Ronald Martinez / Getty Images Sport / Getty

    On Tuesday, the Baseball Writers' Association of America voted in as many players into the National Baseball Hall of Fame as it had in the previous three years combined.

    Adrián Beltré, Todd Helton, and Joe Mauer all received at least 75% of the vote, the necessary level for enshrinement.

    Beltré's candidacy was nearly flawless, and his name was checked on 95% of ballots. He compiled more than 3,000 hits and hit 477 home runs while playing elite defense at third base for two decades. The eye test and advanced numbers were in agreement on his resume.

    Mauer was an elite two-way catcher until injuries moved him off the position in the second half of his career. But even if we discount his later performance at first base and DH, his peak years at catcher were about as productive as there have been in the game's history. Only Gary Carter, Johnny Bench, Mike Piazza, and Ivan Rodriguez enjoyed better peaks at catcher as judged by WAR7, the top seven seasons of a player's career measured by Baseball Reference's metric.

    Brace Hemmelgarn / Getty

    And for those who want to diminish Helton's record because he played home games at Coors Field, consider this: He posted a 121 wRC+ on the road during his career with the Rockies, while his Rockies' teammates averaged a 79.5 wRC+ away from mile-high air during his career.

    All hitters generally perform worse on the road for a variety of reasons, but it's even more difficult to leave Coors Field because of how the altitude change affects performance and pitch movement, etc. Helton hit like an All-Star on the road while his teammates were essentially well below replacement level.

    They're all worthy players. They belong. (And I selected each on my ballot.)

    But while the museum in Cooperstown, New York, will add three bronze plaques with a relatively robust class this summer, Hall of Fame membership among modern players remains too light, and this election cycle did little to alleviate the logjam.

    While some may believe I'm in the "large Hall" camp because I chose the maximum 10 players in my first two years as a voter, I'm not an advocate of a large or small Hall, just one that is rightsized.

    John Leyba / Getty Images

    Consider that of the 17,610 major-league players to debut between 1871-1999, only 1.5% have been enshrined. That's a high bar to cross and it should be. But the modern player isn't represented at the same rate as past generations.

    Hall induction rates have decreased each decade since the 1950s when 2.03% to debut that decade were inducted. That fell to 1.83% of players to debut in the 1960s, 1.37% of the 1970s debuts, and 1.23% among those to first play in the 1980s.

    And among players to debut in the 1990s, writers have elected fewer than 1% of players (0.9%), the lowest overall induction rate of any decade.

    Players who debuted in the 1890s or 1920s have twice as good a chance of being in the Hall than if they entered the majors in the 1980s and 1990s.

    While players should be judged against their peers and era, how would Old Hoss Radbourn truly fare today? Was the late 19th century really the pinnacle of baseball performance?

    While more players from the 1990s will certainly enter Cooperstown, the decade still looks to continue the recent downward trend. It's increasingly a small Hall in relative terms.

    More players should have been elected in this voting cycle.

    Players have a maximum of 10 years on the ballot before the BBWAA can no longer consider them. This was Gary Sheffield's final year on the ballot and he failed to reach 75%. He's one of those overlooked modern players. He eclipsed 500 home runs for his career, and he ranks comfortably within the existing right field Hall of Fame population in WAR and WAR7.

    If Sheffield is going to reach Cooperstown, he'll have to be inducted by a supplemental era-specific committee. The committees, the Hall's appeal courts, don't get everything right (see: Harold Baines) but they've been created, in part, because the BBWAA has been so restrictive. Committees of one sort or another going back to the 1930s have enshrined about half the players in the Hall.

    Chase Utley was selected on 28.7% of ballots in his first year of eligibility despite ranking ninth all time in WAR7 at second base. The eight players ahead of him at second base who are eligible to be included are in the Hall, as are several below him.

    From his age 26-31 seasons, he averaged a .298/.388/.523 slash line and a 133 OPS+, which adjusts OPS for ballpark and run-scoring environments (100 is league average).

    Mike Stobe / Getty

    Some voters have taken hard stances against players tied to PED use like Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez (34.8%), and Manny Ramirez (32.5%). And given that character and sportsmanship are supposed to be two criteria voters account for, that's a defensible stance.

    But even if one doesn't want to vote for players tied to steroids, Andruw Jones and Carlos Beltrán certainly fit the bill as Hall of Fame center fielders.

    Even Bobby Abreu - who led right fielders in WAR from 1998-2010, and is one of three players all time to record 1,400 runs scored, 400 steals, 288 home runs, and a .395 on-base mark or better, joining Bonds and Rickey Henderson - has a case for inclusion. This voter believes he does but he only garnered 14.8% of the vote in his fifth year on the ballot.

    If one examines the entire population in the Hall at a player's respective position and that player's peak and career production fits them comfortably within that group set by precedent, they belong.

    MIKE FIALA / Getty

    Closer Billy Wagner (73.9%) fell just short. And while he stands a good chance to get in next year - his 10th and final year on the ballot - getting in this year would have helped clear the logjam.

    The 2025 ballot is going to continue to be crowded, too.

    Ichiro Suzuki and CC Sabathia will debut next year and they figure to have excellent chances. Félix Hernández will also be on the ballot and his peak deserves consideration.

    Perhaps there are signs the voting will become more inclusive, as there were significant changes in voting patterns this year.

    For starters, no blank ballots were submitted this year. That's progress. A blank ballot in recent years is indefensible. Moreover, the average ballot contained seven names, which is an increase from 5.86 names in 2023. Of the voting body, 24.4% checked a maximum of 10 names, an increase from 13.9% a year earlier.

    The BBWAA is perhaps warming up to the modern player.

    The electorate's also changing. It's getting younger and isn't stuck on conventional measures of worth. For example, in this era, it's more difficult for pitchers to accumulate volume stats like wins, and for batters to compile 3,000 hits given modern strikeout rates. Evaluation processes must change to place less responsibility on future committees.

    Each generation of players must be judged by what they could control, and how they performed against their peers. There's little doubt that players today are the most talented to ever play baseball, in part due to advances in player-development programs, data analysis, and nutrition advances. The modern player deserves more representation.

    Voters didn't get anything wrong with the three who got the call Tuesday. Beltré, Helton, and Mauer are all deserving, but we didn't go far enough.

    Travis Sawchik is theScore's senior baseball writer.

  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 38,961
    "Ichiro seems to have an excellent chance"  Is this person an asshole?  If Ichiro doesnt make it first ballot the hall needs to be burnt down.

    Last statement too is ironic considering Beltre got 3000 hits and the other two got no wheres near it but yeah, contemporaries wont get the numbers.

    This guy gets to vote for the HOF... Dear lord...
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Maryland Posts: 16,418
  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Washington DC Posts: 7,250
    I'm so excited! I will be in San Diego the last week of spring training, and I may be able to see a game on Monday, the 25th vs Seattle. Yay!
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  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,724
    Ichiro better damn well be unanimous.
    This won't happen. There's always a dork sportswriter or two that just won't vote a guy first-ballot. At least that used to be the case. Nolan Ryan got like 98%, and Ted Williams only got like 93%. Now, voters are softer these days (Derek Jeter was one vote short of unanimous, which is laughable), but I still don't think Ichirio will be unanimous. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

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  • BSullyBSully Indiana Posts: 1,012
    Yeah, Griffey Jr. was close too, like 3 votes short. Some people just don't want any player to hit that 100% mark.
    1998: Noblesville, IN 08-17
    2000: Noblesville, IN 08-18
    2003: Noblesville, IN 06-22
    2006: Cincinnati, OH 06-24
    2010: Noblesville, IN 05-07
    2016: Lexington, KY 04-26, Wrigley Field 2 08-22
    2018: Wrigley Field 1 08-18, Wrigley Field 2 08-20
    2022: St. Louis, MO 09-18
    2024: Noblesville, IN 08-26, Wrigley Field 1 08-29, Wrigley Field 2 08-31
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 38,961
    BSully said:
    Yeah, Griffey Jr. was close too, like 3 votes short. Some people just don't want any player to hit that 100% mark.
    Dumb dumb dumb...

    If hes a HOFer, vote for him.  If u think he cheated or did but he has the numbers, vote for him.
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,447
    this uniform flap is kind of funny.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo Philly Posts: 10,356
    Wobbie said:
    this uniform flap is kind of funny.
    Uh huh. Nobody minded selling crappy $250 jerseys to fans, but give 'em to the players and all hell breaks loose!
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13;
    WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16;
    Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; SeaHearNow Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22

    Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
  • Indifference71Indifference71 Chicago Posts: 14,735
    Wobbie said:
    this uniform flap is kind of funny.
    The see thru pants are hilarious!  And the tiny numbers and name plates on the back look like the cheap shit you'd by on those seedy websites from China.  And apparently they're not letting the players customize their pants or anything like that.  Anything made by Fanatics is trash.
  • Other road batting averages of some hall of famers
    Mickey Mantle .291, Ernie Banks .259. so in the context of even having an advantage of a ballpark like Coors .287 on the road is pretty good.
    Did you just compare Mantle and Banks TO HELTON???

    Did you get your MSG tickets this time around? 
    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYC Posts: 9,064
    Other road batting averages of some hall of famers
    Mickey Mantle .291, Ernie Banks .259. so in the context of even having an advantage of a ballpark like Coors .287 on the road is pretty good.
    Did you just compare Mantle and Banks TO HELTON???

    Did you get your MSG tickets this time around? 
    Ha, no, just two other Hall of Famers in the discussion and their road batting averages.

    Not yet, but I'll get them eventually, I'm in for Philadelphia night one so far and depending on other things, I may take a long day trip up to Fenway for the second show.
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
  • eeriepadaveeeriepadave West Chester, PA Posts: 40,823
    bf959b1f-9b77-457c-baf8-038776f33339_zps8a6a389d.jpg?t=1365722973
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    Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
    Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
  • BSullyBSully Indiana Posts: 1,012
    Wobbie said:
    this uniform flap is kind of funny.
    The see thru pants are hilarious!  And the tiny numbers and name plates on the back look like the cheap shit you'd by on those seedy websites from China.  And apparently they're not letting the players customize their pants or anything like that.  Anything made by Fanatics is trash.
    Yeah, I got a shirt from them once and the seam was off-center and overlapped on the end.
    1998: Noblesville, IN 08-17
    2000: Noblesville, IN 08-18
    2003: Noblesville, IN 06-22
    2006: Cincinnati, OH 06-24
    2010: Noblesville, IN 05-07
    2016: Lexington, KY 04-26, Wrigley Field 2 08-22
    2018: Wrigley Field 1 08-18, Wrigley Field 2 08-20
    2022: St. Louis, MO 09-18
    2024: Noblesville, IN 08-26, Wrigley Field 1 08-29, Wrigley Field 2 08-31
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,447
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
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