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MLB 2024 Season

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    WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,456
    I think you gotta let adrian beltre in….even if he did start his career as a fucking d**ger.
    If I had known then what I know now...

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    igotid88 said:

    Wagner, Andruw Jones, Sheffield, Arod, Manny and Beltre ALL should be in.

    Krod is on the cusp.  He had a ton of saves but modern ones.
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    Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,726
    edited November 2023
    igotid88 said:
    ARod, Pettitte, and Andruw
    If Bonds didn't get in, A-Rod has no chance whatsoever. A-Rod got caught dong steroids twice. In the early 2000's when Bonds and everyone else were being scrutinized (BALCO), but then again in 2014 (Biogenesis) when it clearly against the rules and everybody knew it. 

    And even if we forget about steroids for a moment, Bonds was better than A-Rod by quite a large margin. For example, they each had about 12,500 plate appearances in their careers. Bonds had 2,558 walks versus 1,539 strikeouts. A-Rod had 1,338 walks versus 2,287 strikeouts. 
    Post edited by Ledbetterman10 on
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

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    igotid88 said:
    ARod, Pettitte, and Andruw
    If Bonds didn't get in, A-Rod has no chance whatsoever. A-Rod got caught dong steroids twice. In the early 2000's when Bonds and everyone else were being scrutinized (BALCO), but then again in 2014 (Biogenesis) when it clearly against the rules and everybody knew it. 

    And even if we forget about steroids for a moment, Bonds was better than A-Rod by quite a large margin. For example, they each had about 12,500 plate appearances in their careers. Bonds had 2,558 walks versus 1,539 strikeouts. A-Rod had 1,338 walks versus 2,287 strikeouts. 
    I'll disagree with this. Arod was friggin good. Enhancing or not.  He was the 2nd best baseball player I have ever seen, Bonds being first and Pujols 1st 10 years as third.

    Arod was GOOD.  He should be in. Consistent GG too until he went to 3B.
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    igotid88 said:
    ARod, Pettitte, and Andruw
    If Bonds didn't get in, A-Rod has no chance whatsoever. A-Rod got caught dong steroids twice. In the early 2000's when Bonds and everyone else were being scrutinized (BALCO), but then again in 2014 (Biogenesis) when it clearly against the rules and everybody knew it. 

    And even if we forget about steroids for a moment, Bonds was better than A-Rod by quite a large margin. For example, they each had about 12,500 plate appearances in their careers. Bonds had 2,558 walks versus 1,539 strikeouts. A-Rod had 1,338 walks versus 2,287 strikeouts. 
    I'll disagree with this. Arod was friggin good. Enhancing or not.  He was the 2nd best baseball player I have ever seen, Bonds being first and Pujols 1st 10 years as third.

    Arod was GOOD.  He should be in. Consistent GG too until he went to 3B.
    I'm not saying A-Rod wasn't a great player. But he's a distant second behind Bonds. So when the poster above suggests him for the HOF, I say if Bonds isn't in, then no way should A-Rod get in. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

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    Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 16,773
    Correct take above - Bonds is the greatest hitter of my lifetime and it's not even close. If he's not in then ARod isn't getting in.
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    mfc2006mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,385
    Correct take above - Bonds is the greatest hitter of my lifetime and it's not even close. If he's not in then ARod isn't getting in.
    Completely agree. ARod was great, but Bonds was flat-out amazing.
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    Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo Philly Posts: 10,405
    Bonds was a disgrace to the sport and I never could stand him. And he's probably the greatest player I've ever seen.
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13;
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    igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,333
    Hot take. I think Bonds was using prior to Balco
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    igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,333
    edited November 2023
    igotid88 said:
    ARod, Pettitte, and Andruw
    If Bonds didn't get in, A-Rod has no chance whatsoever. A-Rod got caught dong steroids twice. In the early 2000's when Bonds and everyone else were being scrutinized (BALCO), but then again in 2014 (Biogenesis) when it clearly against the rules and everybody knew it. 

    And even if we forget about steroids for a moment, Bonds was better than A-Rod by quite a large margin. For example, they each had about 12,500 plate appearances in their careers. Bonds had 2,558 walks versus 1,539 strikeouts. A-Rod had 1,338 walks versus 2,287 strikeouts. 
    I'll disagree with this. Arod was friggin good. Enhancing or not.  He was the 2nd best baseball player I have ever seen, Bonds being first and Pujols 1st 10 years as third.

    Arod was GOOD.  He should be in. Consistent GG too until he went to 3B.
    I'm not saying A-Rod wasn't a great player. But he's a distant second behind Bonds. So when the poster above suggests him for the HOF, I say if Bonds isn't in, then no way should A-Rod get in. 
    But Ortiz is in and he's half the player both were. It's not a perfect system. You have guys like Rolen and Baines getting in. Wagner might get in this year.
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    Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 16,773
    igotid88 said:
    Hot take. I think Bonds was using prior to Balco
    Is that hot tho? I think once you get caught there's a chance you did anything at anytime.
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    Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,726
    edited November 2023
    igotid88 said:
    Hot take. I think Bonds was using prior to Balco
    I've always felt, speculatively, that he started in 2000. He watched McGwire and Sosa (who can't lace his boots) have that homerun chase in 1998. And then Bonds himself had his worst season in 1999 (likely due in large part to a bicep injury). But starting in 2000 is when his performance began going off-the-charts. 

    And as for your other post, you're right, it's not a perfect system and Ortiz being in the HOF (with steroid allegations) while Bonds isn't is ridiculous. 

    And don't get me started on Rolen. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
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    xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYC Posts: 9,070
    We have a trade, Trader Jerry Dipoto strikes again by dealing Eugenio Suarez to Arizona.
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    Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo Philly Posts: 10,405
    My understanding is he starting juicing immediately after the 1998 season and overdid it leading to the muscle injury, and they refined the formula for 2000. I could have the timeline mixed up though.
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13;
    WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16;
    Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; SeaHearNow Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22

    Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
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    Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,600
    igotid88 said:
    igotid88 said:
    ARod, Pettitte, and Andruw
    If Bonds didn't get in, A-Rod has no chance whatsoever. A-Rod got caught dong steroids twice. In the early 2000's when Bonds and everyone else were being scrutinized (BALCO), but then again in 2014 (Biogenesis) when it clearly against the rules and everybody knew it. 

    And even if we forget about steroids for a moment, Bonds was better than A-Rod by quite a large margin. For example, they each had about 12,500 plate appearances in their careers. Bonds had 2,558 walks versus 1,539 strikeouts. A-Rod had 1,338 walks versus 2,287 strikeouts. 
    I'll disagree with this. Arod was friggin good. Enhancing or not.  He was the 2nd best baseball player I have ever seen, Bonds being first and Pujols 1st 10 years as third.

    Arod was GOOD.  He should be in. Consistent GG too until he went to 3B.
    I'm not saying A-Rod wasn't a great player. But he's a distant second behind Bonds. So when the poster above suggests him for the HOF, I say if Bonds isn't in, then no way should A-Rod get in. 
    But Ortiz is in and he's half the player both were. It's not a perfect system. You have guys like Rolen and Baines getting in. Wagner might get in this year.
    This 
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    My understanding is he starting juicing immediately after the 1998 season and overdid it leading to the muscle injury, and they refined the formula for 2000. I could have the timeline mixed up though.
    That could be. My assumption has always been that he began juicing in response to the injury. It's amazing what steroids can do to heal an injury. I once had a bad shoulder injury that I couldn't lift my arm over my head after it. One week of prescribed steroids, and it was like it was never injured to begin with. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
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    WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,456
    I’m getting a warm and fuzzy feeling reading all this (mostly) love for Barry.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
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    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
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    F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,617
    F Barry!
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
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    igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,333
    Is Barry short for Barold?
    I miss igotid88
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    WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,456
    igotid88 said:
    Is Barry short for Barold?
    oh haha… let’s not overlook all your juicing Yankees. you know, the ones who made Torre a HOFer.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
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    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
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    igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,333
    Wobbie said:
    igotid88 said:
    Is Barry short for Barold?
    oh haha… let’s not overlook all your juicing Yankees. you know, the ones who made Torre a HOFer.
    Always reminded
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    igotid88 said:
    Hot take. I think Bonds was using prior to Balco
    I've always felt, speculatively, that he started in 2000. He watched McGwire and Sosa (who can't lace his boots) have that homerun chase in 1998. And then Bonds himself had his worst season in 1999 (likely due in large part to a bicep injury). But starting in 2000 is when his performance began going off-the-charts. 

    And as for your other post, you're right, it's not a perfect system and Ortiz being in the HOF (with steroid allegations) while Bonds isn't is ridiculous. 

    And don't get me started on Rolen. 
    In Canseco's book Juiced, he mentions Bonds looking at his physique in the locker room and said "what the hell are you doing?"  I forget what year it was but I'm sure it's shortly after that?
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    cutzcutz Posts: 11,423
    Sonny Grey signed with the Cardinals.
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    Kelenic to Atlanta.

    Ohtani will be a Mariner soon.
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    WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,456
    Kelenic to Atlanta.

    Ohtani will be a Mariner soon.
    dunno about ohtani, but I’ve read the mariners’ fanbase has not been to happy with dipoto’s(?) moves.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
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    Wobbie said:
    Kelenic to Atlanta.

    Ohtani will be a Mariner soon.
    dunno about ohtani, but I’ve read the mariners’ fanbase has not been to happy with dipoto’s(?) moves.
    I'd have kept Kelenic.  Atlanta he'll thrive.
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    igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,333
    Did they trade him because they think he's a bust or are they rebuilding?
    I miss igotid88
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    igotid88 said:
    Did they trade him because they think he's a bust or are they rebuilding?
    I think for room for Ohtani.
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    markymark550markymark550 Columbia, SC Posts: 5,104
    igotid88 said:
    Did they trade him because they think he's a bust or are they rebuilding?
    I think for room for Ohtani.
    Yeah, they dump about $20M in salary with the other 2 players sent to Atl. Nice starting point to make the numbers work for Ohtani.
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    MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,611
    I like the idea of Ohtani on the Jays.  Seems like a good fit.  Also rubs it in the face of the Yankees that times have changed.  Would be great if the Red Sox got Soto.
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