some trout rookie chrome/platinum/refractor/whatever card sold in an auction last week for $147k.
BTW, penmanship is dead.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Wait, what? I thought baseball cards were worth shit now. Or is that only the overproduced stuff from the 90's?
Pretty much only the junk was era stuff is worthless, and even that's starting to climb, especially if its graded/gradeable. Phil's Pulls is a great channel. So is Jabs Family. My LCS is actually the same one that Erik Jabs goes to. It's about an hour away for me. Sucks because I'm usually stuck buying retail and there's never shit in those packs bc all the assholes go searching thru them.
Man, I don't have any idea what you just said, but cool.
The underlined part by me above starts to make me think we're approaching some kind of bubble again.
The junk wax era was around 1987-1993 give or take a couple years on either end. Millions upon millions of cards were produced, making them super easy to find and worth absolutely nothing. You can got to a $1 bin and grab about 30 Jose Canseco rookies in one swoop these days. Everything after that first sentence was a completely different thought, sort of replying to other posts in the thread without quoting them. Didn't mean to throw you off there.
We are definitely approaching another bubble soon. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, either.
So there are some absolute gems in the "junk era" years. If you find a Barry Bonds/Johnny Ray opening day error, Frank Thomas No name on front, 93 SP Jeter or the Desert shield cards from 891 you are doing good.
The 91 cards also have a rabid following because Topps did some crazy shit w the backs of the cards. They have "black light" versions and different print on the backs. Crazy stuff.
As for a bubble? This Corona virus thing may jump start that.There are definitely wayyy too many people in the hobby right now but that is good for me and my selling.
I just bought new boxes for my collection and as I was transferring stuff, going thru my 90 Topps, Frank Thomas was the ONLY card missing from the set. I am willing to bet that set had the NNOF and it was picked through before my folks bought it for me as a kid.
Wait, what? I thought baseball cards were worth shit now. Or is that only the overproduced stuff from the 90's?
Pretty much only the junk was era stuff is worthless, and even that's starting to climb, especially if its graded/gradeable. Phil's Pulls is a great channel. So is Jabs Family. My LCS is actually the same one that Erik Jabs goes to. It's about an hour away for me. Sucks because I'm usually stuck buying retail and there's never shit in those packs bc all the assholes go searching thru them.
Man, I don't have any idea what you just said, but cool.
The underlined part by me above starts to make me think we're approaching some kind of bubble again.
The junk wax era was around 1987-1993 give or take a couple years on either end. Millions upon millions of cards were produced, making them super easy to find and worth absolutely nothing. You can got to a $1 bin and grab about 30 Jose Canseco rookies in one swoop these days. Everything after that first sentence was a completely different thought, sort of replying to other posts in the thread without quoting them. Didn't mean to throw you off there.
We are definitely approaching another bubble soon. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, either.
So there are some absolute gems in the "junk era" years. If you find a Barry Bonds/Johnny Ray opening day error, Frank Thomas No name on front, 93 SP Jeter or the Desert shield cards from 891 you are doing good.
The 91 cards also have a rabid following because Topps did some crazy shit w the backs of the cards. They have "black light" versions and different print on the backs. Crazy stuff.
As for a bubble? This Corona virus thing may jump start that.There are definitely wayyy too many people in the hobby right now but that is good for me and my selling.
I just bought new boxes for my collection and as I was transferring stuff, going thru my 90 Topps, Frank Thomas was the ONLY card missing from the set. I am willing to bet that set had the NNOF and it was picked through before my folks bought it for me as a kid.
I wouldn't get too upset about that because the NNOF card was only found in certain areas in New England and in wax boxes, not the sets.
Forgot to mention that the Lux was a card I got back from grading and the others were just sent in.
Stop buying cards a while back... but did buy these for my son during Trouts rookie season.
I am going to call you a liar only because of the labels. If you tell me that you got them graded seven years ago I will believe you. Those labels aren't from his "rookie" year.
Forgot to mention that the Lux was a card I got back from grading and the others were just sent in.
Stop buying cards a while back... but did buy these for my son during Trouts rookie season.
I am going to call you a liar only because of the labels. If you tell me that you got them graded seven years ago I will believe you. Those labels aren't from his "rookie" year.
Good cards.
Crack them both open and send into PSA.
PM me if you want to chat more.
F@#$ man... really? A liar? wow... why lie about something like this? hahaha It was his Rookie year or first couple of years IDK... somewhere in that time frame. I paid like $25 for them.. my son was playing high school baseball at the time. He graduated after playing in his state finals in 2015. I bought them around his freshman year.. I bought them already graded...
Seriously man... wtf is wrong with you?..I share and you say that shit?.. Fucking people.. man I've tried to be nice to you in many threads.. guess that was a mistake..
Post edited by myoung321 on
"The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
Forgot to mention that the Lux was a card I got back from grading and the others were just sent in.
Stop buying cards a while back... but did buy these for my son during Trouts rookie season.
I am going to call you a liar only because of the labels. If you tell me that you got them graded seven years ago I will believe you. Those labels aren't from his "rookie" year.
Good cards.
Crack them both open and send into PSA.
PM me if you want to chat more.
F@#$ man... really? A liar? wow... why lie about something like this? hahaha It was his Rookie year or first couple of years IDK... somewhere in that time frame. I paid like $25 for them.. my son was playing high school baseball at the time. He graduated after playing in his state finals in 2015. I bought them around his freshman year..
Seriously man... wtf is wrong with you?..I share and you say that shit?.. Fucking people..
That is how I talk Hoss, relax. I'll PM you. Dear lord.
some trout rookie chrome/platinum/refractor/whatever card sold in an auction last week for $147k.
BTW, penmanship is dead.
2009 orange refractor.
The whole card world knows, lol.
For penmanship look at Luis Severino's sig. He has a beautiful auto.
Always liked The Hawk's signature:
hawk harrelson?
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
if Bonds is not top three, it’s completely fraudulent.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Welcome to the Baseball 100, an absurd thing that I am doing here at The Athletic. Over the next 100 days, I will be counting down
the 100 greatest baseball players in history, each with an essay. In
all, this project will contain roughly as many words as “Moby Dick.”
Yes, this is a nutty thing to do.
Well, to be fair, it is my third try. A few years ago, when I
had a job and a family and something of a life, I decided it would be
interesting and fun to rank the 100 greatest baseball players ever. At
the time, I imagined writing just a few words on each player — a
paragraph or two — and spreading it out over a baseball offseason.
But it didn’t work out that way. The trouble is that I am utterly
incapable of writing “just a few words” on great baseball players. And
so the stories began to get longer and more involved and longer and more
involved until this project overtook my every waking thought. I read
multiple books on some of the players. I fell down Grand Canyon-sized
rabbit holes. And it kept getting bigger and bigger — after all, if
you’re going to write a couple thousand words about Duke Snider, you
have to write more words on Willie McCovey, and if you’re going to write
that much on McCovey, how much would you need to write about Roberto
Clemente?
The series stretched out for so long that I began to find the
rankings out of date. And finally, I simply ran out of time and space.
The first attempt crashed around No. 30.
I began the series again last year because I got very excited about this new ranking formula that that estimable Tom Tango helped me come up with. That series flamed out more quickly.
This time, the third time, is the charm. Beginning Wednesday, Dec. 18, and ending on Opening Day, we at The Athletic
will count down the 100 greatest baseball players with long essays
telling many stories. And I should say that this list will include
several all-time greats who never played Major League Baseball. Well,
you will see.
Let me say something right at the top about the rankings themselves:
You may care a lot about those. You will probably get mad when you see
which players I have left out, which players I have ranked way too low or way
too high. You might want me to know just how dumb I am, just how little
I know about baseball, just how insulting the ranking was. I totally
get it. And I totally deserve whatever you are going to say because it
takes some serious gall to believe that you can really rank the 100
greatest baseball players ever.
I will add this because I think it’s important to say: I don’t care
much about the rankings. Yes, I spent many, many, many hours on them. I
used the Tom Tango-inspired formula, added a bunch of wrinkles, did a
bunch of research and made some hard judgments that I believe in.
But the point of this for me is not the ranking but the stories.
Every one of these players has a fascinating story — about persistence,
about confidence, about pure talent, about amazing moments, about the
lengths people will go to become quote-unquote “great.” The stories are
what inspired me to do this bonkers thing. And so, with very rare
exceptions, I do not even mention the ranking in these essays. There are
exceptions where the player’s ranking is part of the story.
But you will not see me write something like, “Duane Kuiper is the 45th best player of all time for these four reasons.”*
*I’m joking. Duane Kuiper is not No. 45 on the Baseball 100 list. That would be ridiculous. He’s No. 77.**
**I kid.
Because of this, I will not go into great detail about my ranking.
Some of it is science, but admittedly some of it also art. I will give
you a handful of guiding principles:
1. I think today’s players tend to be underrated compared to those who came before them.
2. I lean toward players who were great at their peak, even if that
peak only lasted a short time, and lean away from those who were
consistently but not toweringly good for a long time.
3. I lean toward players who did multiple things well over
specialists (no matter how great) who basically did just one thing well.
4. I take a lot of care to make educated guesses about players whose
careers were shortened by things beyond their control — World War II,
for example, or baseball’s tragic and infuriating color line. I don’t
make the same adjustment for injuries. As Bill James has written,
there’s a big difference. The years when Joe DiMaggio or Ted Williams or
Bob Feller were at war, the years when Josh Gibson and Oscar Charleston played in the Negro Leagues, they were still
the best players on earth. They just couldn’t play in the big leagues
because of larger issues. When players get hurt — take Don Mattingly,
for example, and his back problems — they stop being the best players in
the world. I wish Donnie Baseball didn’t get hurt, we all do, but he
did, and he was never quite the same player after that. That’s not the
same as saying that Bob Feller lost four years when he was still the
best pitcher on earth.
5. I have done a lot of research about the Negro Leagues to estimate
the greatness of the players there. I try to be as unsentimental about
this as I possibly can. I do not rank Satchel Paige based on dreamy
views. He is exactly where I think he belongs on the list.
As for the rest: This list is a moving target. I have done it three
times using different methods and the rankings are quite different. This
is because there’s no significant difference between a player ranked 72
and 48 and 31. I could swap them, for the most part, without it
changing much of anything. So if you believe a player ranked 97th should
actually be 53rd, well, it might be that way the next time.
And finally: The toughest part of doing this list was cutting it off
at 100. There are 25 or so players who I think are just as deserving to
be on this list as anyone in the bottom 50. It was brutal narrowing
things down, but that’s how such lists go. I want to write about the 25
players who just missed, but I can’t do that now because it would ruin
some of the suspense. So maybe we’ll do that at the end.
Comments
BTW, penmanship is dead.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
The whole card world knows, lol.
For penmanship look at Luis Severino's sig. He has a beautiful auto.
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
https://theathletic.com/1457115/2019/12/17/the-baseball-100-a-project-celebrating-the-greatest-players-in-history/
Been watching it unfold. Sometimes I disagree but it is fun to read details on these amazing players.
Good cards.
Crack them both open and send into PSA.
PM me if you want to chat more.
Seriously man... wtf is wrong with you?..I share and you say that shit?.. Fucking people.. man I've tried to be nice to you in many threads.. guess that was a mistake..
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
hawk harrelson?
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
What if being a known cheater and complete asshat were things they graded negatively on?
For the record, Greg Maddux has the worst sig ever.
Babe
Mays
Bonds
Pujols
Ryan
No. 100: Ichiro Suzuki
No. 99: Mike Mussina
No. 98: Carlos Beltrán
No. 97: Roberto Alomar
No. 96: Larry Walker
No. 95: Tony Gwynn
No. 94: Roy Campanella
No. 93: Ozzie Smith
No. 92: Bullet Rogan
No. 91: Mariano Rivera
No. 90: Max Scherzer
No. 89: Mike Piazza
No. 88: Curt Schilling
No. 87: Charlie Gehringer
No. 86: Gary Carter
No. 85: Sadaharu Oh
No. 84: Cool Papa Bell
No. 83: Phil Niekro
No. 82: Kid Nichols
No. 81: Ferguson Jenkins
No. 80: Carlton Fisk
No. 79: Derek Jeter
No. 78: Clayton Kershaw
No. 77: Miguel Cabrera
No. 76: Willie McCovey
No. 75: Justin Verlander
No. 74: Frank Thomas
No. 73: Brooks Robinson
No. 72: Robin Roberts
No. 71: Bert Blyleven
No. 70: Sandy Koufax
No. 69: Monte Irvin
No. 68: Gaylord Perry
No. 67: Hank Greenberg
No. 66: Robin Yount
No. 65: Ernie Banks
No. 64: Johnny Mize
No. 63: Steve Carlton
No. 62: Smokey Joe Williams
No. 61: Arky Vaughan
No. 60: Pete Rose
No. 59: Reggie Jackson
No. 58: Jeff Bagwell
No. 57: Rod Carew
No. 56: Joe DiMaggio
No. 55: Bob Feller
No. 54: Chipper Jones
No. 53: Buck Leonard
No. 52: Adrián Beltré
No. 51: Al Kaline
No. 50: Nolan Ryan
No. 49: Warren Spahn
No. 48: Ken Griffey Jr.
No. 47: Wade Boggs
No. 46: Eddie Mathews
No. 45: Bob Gibson
No. 44: Cal Ripken Jr.
No. 43: Yogi Berra
No. 42: Jackie Robinson
No. 41: Tom Seaver
No. 40: Roberto Clemente
No. 39: Nap Lajoie
No. 38: Carl Yastrzemski
No. 37: Pedro Martínez
No. 36: Christy Mathewson
No. 35: George Brett
No. 34: Cy Young
No. 33: Jimmie Foxx
No. 32: Mel Ott
No. 31: Greg Maddux
No. 30: Johnny Bench
No. 29: Eddie Collins
No. 28: Randy Johnson
No. 27: Mike Trout
No. 26: Grover Cleveland Alexander
No. 25: Pop Lloyd
No. 24: Rickey Henderson
No. 23: Albert Pujols
No. 22: Lefty Grove
No. 21: Joe Morgan
No. 20: Frank Robinson
No. 20 (tie): Mike Schmidt
No. 18: Tris Speaker
No. 17: Rogers Hornsby
No. 16: Alex Rodriguez
No. 15: Josh Gibson
Here is the top of the article, so you can get a feel for his criteria before you crap on his list:
Welcome to the Baseball 100, an absurd thing that I am doing here at The Athletic. Over the next 100 days, I will be counting down the 100 greatest baseball players in history, each with an essay. In all, this project will contain roughly as many words as “Moby Dick.”
Yes, this is a nutty thing to do.
Well, to be fair, it is my third try. A few years ago, when I had a job and a family and something of a life, I decided it would be interesting and fun to rank the 100 greatest baseball players ever. At the time, I imagined writing just a few words on each player — a paragraph or two — and spreading it out over a baseball offseason.
But it didn’t work out that way. The trouble is that I am utterly incapable of writing “just a few words” on great baseball players. And so the stories began to get longer and more involved and longer and more involved until this project overtook my every waking thought. I read multiple books on some of the players. I fell down Grand Canyon-sized rabbit holes. And it kept getting bigger and bigger — after all, if you’re going to write a couple thousand words about Duke Snider, you have to write more words on Willie McCovey, and if you’re going to write that much on McCovey, how much would you need to write about Roberto Clemente?
The series stretched out for so long that I began to find the rankings out of date. And finally, I simply ran out of time and space. The first attempt crashed around No. 30.
I began the series again last year because I got very excited about this new ranking formula that that estimable Tom Tango helped me come up with. That series flamed out more quickly.
This time, the third time, is the charm. Beginning Wednesday, Dec. 18, and ending on Opening Day, we at The Athletic will count down the 100 greatest baseball players with long essays telling many stories. And I should say that this list will include several all-time greats who never played Major League Baseball. Well, you will see.
Let me say something right at the top about the rankings themselves: You may care a lot about those. You will probably get mad when you see which players I have left out, which players I have ranked way too low or way too high. You might want me to know just how dumb I am, just how little I know about baseball, just how insulting the ranking was. I totally get it. And I totally deserve whatever you are going to say because it takes some serious gall to believe that you can really rank the 100 greatest baseball players ever.
I will add this because I think it’s important to say: I don’t care much about the rankings. Yes, I spent many, many, many hours on them. I used the Tom Tango-inspired formula, added a bunch of wrinkles, did a bunch of research and made some hard judgments that I believe in.
But the point of this for me is not the ranking but the stories. Every one of these players has a fascinating story — about persistence, about confidence, about pure talent, about amazing moments, about the lengths people will go to become quote-unquote “great.” The stories are what inspired me to do this bonkers thing. And so, with very rare exceptions, I do not even mention the ranking in these essays. There are exceptions where the player’s ranking is part of the story.
But you will not see me write something like, “Duane Kuiper is the 45th best player of all time for these four reasons.”*
*I’m joking. Duane Kuiper is not No. 45 on the Baseball 100 list. That would be ridiculous. He’s No. 77.**
**I kid.
Because of this, I will not go into great detail about my ranking. Some of it is science, but admittedly some of it also art. I will give you a handful of guiding principles:
1. I think today’s players tend to be underrated compared to those who came before them.
2. I lean toward players who were great at their peak, even if that peak only lasted a short time, and lean away from those who were consistently but not toweringly good for a long time.
3. I lean toward players who did multiple things well over specialists (no matter how great) who basically did just one thing well.
4. I take a lot of care to make educated guesses about players whose careers were shortened by things beyond their control — World War II, for example, or baseball’s tragic and infuriating color line. I don’t make the same adjustment for injuries. As Bill James has written, there’s a big difference. The years when Joe DiMaggio or Ted Williams or Bob Feller were at war, the years when Josh Gibson and Oscar Charleston played in the Negro Leagues, they were still the best players on earth. They just couldn’t play in the big leagues because of larger issues. When players get hurt — take Don Mattingly, for example, and his back problems — they stop being the best players in the world. I wish Donnie Baseball didn’t get hurt, we all do, but he did, and he was never quite the same player after that. That’s not the same as saying that Bob Feller lost four years when he was still the best pitcher on earth.
5. I have done a lot of research about the Negro Leagues to estimate the greatness of the players there. I try to be as unsentimental about this as I possibly can. I do not rank Satchel Paige based on dreamy views. He is exactly where I think he belongs on the list.
As for the rest: This list is a moving target. I have done it three times using different methods and the rankings are quite different. This is because there’s no significant difference between a player ranked 72 and 48 and 31. I could swap them, for the most part, without it changing much of anything. So if you believe a player ranked 97th should actually be 53rd, well, it might be that way the next time.
And finally: The toughest part of doing this list was cutting it off at 100. There are 25 or so players who I think are just as deserving to be on this list as anyone in the bottom 50. It was brutal narrowing things down, but that’s how such lists go. I want to write about the 25 players who just missed, but I can’t do that now because it would ruin some of the suspense. So maybe we’ll do that at the end.
Ty Cobb
Babe Ruth
Barry Bonds
Ted Williams
Willie Mays
Last one was tough as I wasn't sure on Mays, AAron or Hornsby?
Anyone else?