MLB 2024 Off Season

Wobbie

I think you gotta let adrian beltre in….even if he did start his career as a fucking d**ger.

tempo_n_groove

igotid88 said:

Wagner, Andruw Jones, Sheffield, Arod, Manny and Beltre ALL should be in.

Krod is on the cusp.  He had a ton of saves but modern ones.

Ledbetterman10

igotid88 said:

ARod, Pettitte, and Andruw

If Bonds didn't get in, A-Rod has no chance whatsoever. A-Rod got caught dong steroids twice. In the early 2000's when Bonds and everyone else were being scrutinized (BALCO), but then again in 2014 (Biogenesis) when it clearly against the rules and everybody knew it. 

And even if we forget about steroids for a moment, Bonds was better than A-Rod by quite a large margin. For example, they each had about 12,500 plate appearances in their careers. Bonds had 2,558 walks versus 1,539 strikeouts. A-Rod had 1,338 walks versus 2,287 strikeouts. 

tempo_n_groove

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

ARod, Pettitte, and Andruw

If Bonds didn't get in, A-Rod has no chance whatsoever. A-Rod got caught dong steroids twice. In the early 2000's when Bonds and everyone else were being scrutinized (BALCO), but then again in 2014 (Biogenesis) when it clearly against the rules and everybody knew it. 

And even if we forget about steroids for a moment, Bonds was better than A-Rod by quite a large margin. For example, they each had about 12,500 plate appearances in their careers. Bonds had 2,558 walks versus 1,539 strikeouts. A-Rod had 1,338 walks versus 2,287 strikeouts. 

I'll disagree with this. Arod was friggin good. Enhancing or not.  He was the 2nd best baseball player I have ever seen, Bonds being first and Pujols 1st 10 years as third.

Arod was GOOD.  He should be in. Consistent GG too until he went to 3B.

Ledbetterman10

tempo_n_groove said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

ARod, Pettitte, and Andruw

If Bonds didn't get in, A-Rod has no chance whatsoever. A-Rod got caught dong steroids twice. In the early 2000's when Bonds and everyone else were being scrutinized (BALCO), but then again in 2014 (Biogenesis) when it clearly against the rules and everybody knew it. 

And even if we forget about steroids for a moment, Bonds was better than A-Rod by quite a large margin. For example, they each had about 12,500 plate appearances in their careers. Bonds had 2,558 walks versus 1,539 strikeouts. A-Rod had 1,338 walks versus 2,287 strikeouts. 

I'll disagree with this. Arod was friggin good. Enhancing or not.  He was the 2nd best baseball player I have ever seen, Bonds being first and Pujols 1st 10 years as third.

Arod was GOOD.  He should be in. Consistent GG too until he went to 3B.

I'm not saying A-Rod wasn't a great player. But he's a distant second behind Bonds. So when the poster above suggests him for the HOF, I say if Bonds isn't in, then no way should A-Rod get in. 

Jearlpam0925

Correct take above - Bonds is the greatest hitter of my lifetime and it's not even close. If he's not in then ARod isn't getting in.

mfc2006

Jearlpam0925 said:

Correct take above - Bonds is the greatest hitter of my lifetime and it's not even close. If he's not in then ARod isn't getting in.

Completely agree. ARod was great, but Bonds was flat-out amazing.

Johnny Abruzzo

Bonds was a disgrace to the sport and I never could stand him. And he's probably the greatest player I've ever seen.

igotid88

Hot take. I think Bonds was using prior to Balco

igotid88

Ledbetterman10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

ARod, Pettitte, and Andruw

If Bonds didn't get in, A-Rod has no chance whatsoever. A-Rod got caught dong steroids twice. In the early 2000's when Bonds and everyone else were being scrutinized (BALCO), but then again in 2014 (Biogenesis) when it clearly against the rules and everybody knew it. 

And even if we forget about steroids for a moment, Bonds was better than A-Rod by quite a large margin. For example, they each had about 12,500 plate appearances in their careers. Bonds had 2,558 walks versus 1,539 strikeouts. A-Rod had 1,338 walks versus 2,287 strikeouts. 

I'll disagree with this. Arod was friggin good. Enhancing or not.  He was the 2nd best baseball player I have ever seen, Bonds being first and Pujols 1st 10 years as third.

Arod was GOOD.  He should be in. Consistent GG too until he went to 3B.

I'm not saying A-Rod wasn't a great player. But he's a distant second behind Bonds. So when the poster above suggests him for the HOF, I say if Bonds isn't in, then no way should A-Rod get in. 

But Ortiz is in and he's half the player both were. It's not a perfect system. You have guys like Rolen and Baines getting in. Wagner might get in this year.

Jearlpam0925

igotid88 said:

Hot take. I think Bonds was using prior to Balco

Is that hot tho? I think once you get caught there's a chance you did anything at anytime.

Ledbetterman10

igotid88 said:

Hot take. I think Bonds was using prior to Balco

I've always felt, speculatively, that he started in 2000. He watched McGwire and Sosa (who can't lace his boots) have that homerun chase in 1998. And then Bonds himself had his worst season in 1999 (likely due in large part to a bicep injury). But starting in 2000 is when his performance began going off-the-charts. 

And as for your other post, you're right, it's not a perfect system and Ortiz being in the HOF (with steroid allegations) while Bonds isn't is ridiculous. 

And don't get me started on Rolen. 

xavier mcdaniel

We have a trade, Trader Jerry Dipoto strikes again by dealing Eugenio Suarez to Arizona.

Johnny Abruzzo

My understanding is he starting juicing immediately after the 1998 season and overdid it leading to the muscle injury, and they refined the formula for 2000. I could have the timeline mixed up though.

Cliffy6745

igotid88 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

ARod, Pettitte, and Andruw

If Bonds didn't get in, A-Rod has no chance whatsoever. A-Rod got caught dong steroids twice. In the early 2000's when Bonds and everyone else were being scrutinized (BALCO), but then again in 2014 (Biogenesis) when it clearly against the rules and everybody knew it. 

And even if we forget about steroids for a moment, Bonds was better than A-Rod by quite a large margin. For example, they each had about 12,500 plate appearances in their careers. Bonds had 2,558 walks versus 1,539 strikeouts. A-Rod had 1,338 walks versus 2,287 strikeouts. 

I'll disagree with this. Arod was friggin good. Enhancing or not.  He was the 2nd best baseball player I have ever seen, Bonds being first and Pujols 1st 10 years as third.

Arod was GOOD.  He should be in. Consistent GG too until he went to 3B.

I'm not saying A-Rod wasn't a great player. But he's a distant second behind Bonds. So when the poster above suggests him for the HOF, I say if Bonds isn't in, then no way should A-Rod get in. 

But Ortiz is in and he's half the player both were. It's not a perfect system. You have guys like Rolen and Baines getting in. Wagner might get in this year.

This 

Ledbetterman10

Johnny Abruzzo said:

My understanding is he starting juicing immediately after the 1998 season and overdid it leading to the muscle injury, and they refined the formula for 2000. I could have the timeline mixed up though.

That could be. My assumption has always been that he began juicing in response to the injury. It's amazing what steroids can do to heal an injury. I once had a bad shoulder injury that I couldn't lift my arm over my head after it. One week of prescribed steroids, and it was like it was never injured to begin with. 

Wobbie

I’m getting a warm and fuzzy feeling reading all this (mostly) love for Barry.

F Me In The Brain

F Barry!

igotid88

Is Barry short for Barold?

Wobbie

igotid88 said:

Is Barry short for Barold?

oh haha… let’s not overlook all your juicing Yankees. you know, the ones who made Torre a HOFer.

igotid88

Wobbie said:

igotid88 said:

Is Barry short for Barold?

oh haha… let’s not overlook all your juicing Yankees. you know, the ones who made Torre a HOFer.

Always reminded

tempo_n_groove

Ledbetterman10 said:

igotid88 said:

Hot take. I think Bonds was using prior to Balco

I've always felt, speculatively, that he started in 2000. He watched McGwire and Sosa (who can't lace his boots) have that homerun chase in 1998. And then Bonds himself had his worst season in 1999 (likely due in large part to a bicep injury). But starting in 2000 is when his performance began going off-the-charts. 

And as for your other post, you're right, it's not a perfect system and Ortiz being in the HOF (with steroid allegations) while Bonds isn't is ridiculous. 

And don't get me started on Rolen. 

In Canseco's book Juiced, he mentions Bonds looking at his physique in the locker room and said "what the hell are you doing?"  I forget what year it was but I'm sure it's shortly after that?

cutz

Sonny Grey signed with the Cardinals.

tempo_n_groove

Kelenic to Atlanta.

Ohtani will be a Mariner soon.

Wobbie

tempo_n_groove said:

Kelenic to Atlanta.

Ohtani will be a Mariner soon.

dunno about ohtani, but I’ve read the mariners’ fanbase has not been to happy with dipoto’s(?) moves.

tempo_n_groove

Wobbie said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Kelenic to Atlanta.

Ohtani will be a Mariner soon.

dunno about ohtani, but I’ve read the mariners’ fanbase has not been to happy with dipoto’s(?) moves.

I'd have kept Kelenic.  Atlanta he'll thrive.

igotid88

Did they trade him because they think he's a bust or are they rebuilding?

tempo_n_groove

igotid88 said:

Did they trade him because they think he's a bust or are they rebuilding?

I think for room for Ohtani.

markymark550

tempo_n_groove said:

igotid88 said:

Did they trade him because they think he's a bust or are they rebuilding?

I think for room for Ohtani.

Yeah, they dump about $20M in salary with the other 2 players sent to Atl. Nice starting point to make the numbers work for Ohtani.

MayDay10

I like the idea of Ohtani on the Jays.  Seems like a good fit.  Also rubs it in the face of the Yankees that times have changed.  Would be great if the Red Sox got Soto.