Nobody should be allowed in the Hall Of Fame, until Fred Mcgriff is enshrined. 493 HR's and I am pretty damned sure he wasnt a steroid freak.
I loved Crime Dog. Followed him from his Toronto days until he joined that loaded Braves line-up. His consecutive 30+ homer seasons were still a rare thing at that time and the fact that he was a lefty like me made me enjoy watching him, and Griffey, the most.
I'm shocked the first 2 Post I read are from NYY fans bitching about Ortiz.
Can it still be a HOF when the Hit King, the Home Run King and the pitcher who won the most Cy Youngs are not in? But, Bud Selig is in the HOF?
Do you take away the records from the players who took Greenies (which were taken over decades)? The players who ONLY played against white players? Where does it end?
Players should be in the HOF from their era, regardless of what people may THINK a player did, if they deserve to be inducted?
I think Bumgarner and Lester are both on the outside looking in, but MadBum is closer than Lester imo because he has the next 6, 7, 8 years to change that.
yeah, except for right now he kinda sucks.
No doubt. Hopefully he can turn it around.
But at the end of the day I think the first ballot guys are: Kershaw, Verlander, Kershaw, Grienke. Also, I guess Grienke goes in as a Royal and Scherzer as a Nat? Talk about two dominant guys that have spent close to half their time as journeymen (using that term very, very loosely).
Now to some hot takes: Jimmy Rollins should be a HOFer, full stop.
Out of all the names I saw thrown around, I agree with this one. Rollins was really good for a run. Does Howard get a chance in later? He didn't even get 5% and an argument could be made for him but I don't think he gets in.
Scott Rolen? If he gets in then Vizquel should but he will never see the Hall for the batboy incident.
Modern pitchers Kershaw, Scherzer and Verlander get in for sure. Grienke I don't know. I think DeGrom and Buehler are both headed in the right direction for that. Sale hasn't done enough.
I am on the fence w people like Andruw Jones. Really good for a bit then fell off a cliff. Beltre has 3000 hits so he gets in when eligible.
Many Ramirez should get more votes. I think he should be in.
Kent, Sheffield, Helton and Petite are all fringe HOFers to me. They were good but the numbers aren't there.
Sheffield and Pettitte should be in. Especially if people are saying Schilling should be in. Pettitte is over 100 wins over .500. That has to account for something
I really am wishy washy on Schilling... Sheffield hmmm.
So we talked about league leaders and stuff. Sheffield is one of those guys that never led the league in any of the major categories except once! He led the league in average. Crazy right?
He does have 500 HR's though but that doesn't guarantee you in anymore which is stupid. He has 500, open up the doors. These writers I just don't understand. It's a personal merit contest now. Asshole-not in, nice guy/decent ball player-welcome to the hall...
I think Bumgarner and Lester are both on the outside looking in, but MadBum is closer than Lester imo because he has the next 6, 7, 8 years to change that.
yeah, except for right now he kinda sucks.
No doubt. Hopefully he can turn it around.
But at the end of the day I think the first ballot guys are: Kershaw, Verlander, Kershaw, Grienke. Also, I guess Grienke goes in as a Royal and Scherzer as a Nat? Talk about two dominant guys that have spent close to half their time as journeymen (using that term very, very loosely).
Now to some hot takes: Jimmy Rollins should be a HOFer, full stop.
Out of all the names I saw thrown around, I agree with this one. Rollins was really good for a run. Does Howard get a chance in later? He didn't even get 5% and an argument could be made for him but I don't think he gets in.
Scott Rolen? If he gets in then Vizquel should but he will never see the Hall for the batboy incident.
Modern pitchers Kershaw, Scherzer and Verlander get in for sure. Grienke I don't know. I think DeGrom and Buehler are both headed in the right direction for that. Sale hasn't done enough.
I am on the fence w people like Andruw Jones. Really good for a bit then fell off a cliff. Beltre has 3000 hits so he gets in when eligible.
Many Ramirez should get more votes. I think he should be in.
Kent, Sheffield, Helton and Petite are all fringe HOFers to me. They were good but the numbers aren't there.
Sheffield and Pettitte should be in. Especially if people are saying Schilling should be in. Pettitte is over 100 wins over .500. That has to account for something
I really am wishy washy on Schilling... Sheffield hmmm.
So we talked about league leaders and stuff. Sheffield is one of those guys that never led the league in any of the major categories except once! He led the league in average. Crazy right?
He does have 500 HR's though but that doesn't guarantee you in anymore which is stupid. He has 500, open up the doors. These writers I just don't understand. It's a personal merit contest now. Asshole-not in, nice guy/decent ball player-welcome to the hall...
Pettitte is not in only because he admitted to the hgh
I'm shocked the first 2 Post I read are from NYY fans bitching about Ortiz.
Can it still be a HOF when the Hit King, the Home Run King and the pitcher who won the most Cy Youngs are not in? But, Bud Selig is in the HOF?
Do you take away the records from the players who took Greenies (which were taken over decades)? The players who ONLY played against white players? Where does it end?
Players should be in the HOF from their era, regardless of what people may THINK a player did, if they deserve to be inducted?
Then you have a player like Arod. He was great from the beginning as a junior Olympian. He got thrown off the team because he wouldn't sign a deal w Topps. His agent told him don't worry, you'll be taken care of down the road. He has always been good.
Problem is he got popped, twice.
I still think he should be in the hall. I don't see how steroids help him be the best 3rd basemen in baseball all those years...
I think Bumgarner and Lester are both on the outside looking in, but MadBum is closer than Lester imo because he has the next 6, 7, 8 years to change that.
yeah, except for right now he kinda sucks.
No doubt. Hopefully he can turn it around.
But at the end of the day I think the first ballot guys are: Kershaw, Verlander, Kershaw, Grienke. Also, I guess Grienke goes in as a Royal and Scherzer as a Nat? Talk about two dominant guys that have spent close to half their time as journeymen (using that term very, very loosely).
Now to some hot takes: Jimmy Rollins should be a HOFer, full stop.
Out of all the names I saw thrown around, I agree with this one. Rollins was really good for a run. Does Howard get a chance in later? He didn't even get 5% and an argument could be made for him but I don't think he gets in.
Scott Rolen? If he gets in then Vizquel should but he will never see the Hall for the batboy incident.
Modern pitchers Kershaw, Scherzer and Verlander get in for sure. Grienke I don't know. I think DeGrom and Buehler are both headed in the right direction for that. Sale hasn't done enough.
I am on the fence w people like Andruw Jones. Really good for a bit then fell off a cliff. Beltre has 3000 hits so he gets in when eligible.
Many Ramirez should get more votes. I think he should be in.
Kent, Sheffield, Helton and Petite are all fringe HOFers to me. They were good but the numbers aren't there.
Sheffield and Pettitte should be in. Especially if people are saying Schilling should be in. Pettitte is over 100 wins over .500. That has to account for something
I really am wishy washy on Schilling... Sheffield hmmm.
So we talked about league leaders and stuff. Sheffield is one of those guys that never led the league in any of the major categories except once! He led the league in average. Crazy right?
He does have 500 HR's though but that doesn't guarantee you in anymore which is stupid. He has 500, open up the doors. These writers I just don't understand. It's a personal merit contest now. Asshole-not in, nice guy/decent ball player-welcome to the hall...
Pettitte is not in only because he admitted to the hgh
Borderline for me. He has a decent amount of wins that should be the standard now to get in. The WAR is a little low for HOF pitchers but not the lowest.
At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame. They just didnt get caught or implicated. I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa). Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders. I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2). Basically cheapened those hallowed records.
Bonds - , faced 'roided pitchers,
Wow, talk about the weakest, most raaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day, homer defense of Bonds anyone could possibly come up with
At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame. They just didnt get caught or implicated. I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa). Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders. I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2). Basically cheapened those hallowed records.
Bonds - , faced 'roided pitchers,
Wow, talk about the weakest, most raaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day, homer defense of Bonds anyone could possibly come up with
I think Bumgarner and Lester are both on the outside looking in, but MadBum is closer than Lester imo because he has the next 6, 7, 8 years to change that.
yeah, except for right now he kinda sucks.
No doubt. Hopefully he can turn it around.
But at the end of the day I think the first ballot guys are: Kershaw, Verlander, Kershaw, Grienke. Also, I guess Grienke goes in as a Royal and Scherzer as a Nat? Talk about two dominant guys that have spent close to half their time as journeymen (using that term very, very loosely).
Now to some hot takes: Jimmy Rollins should be a HOFer, full stop.
Out of all the names I saw thrown around, I agree with this one. Rollins was really good for a run. Does Howard get a chance in later? He didn't even get 5% and an argument could be made for him but I don't think he gets in.
Scott Rolen? If he gets in then Vizquel should but he will never see the Hall for the batboy incident.
Modern pitchers Kershaw, Scherzer and Verlander get in for sure. Grienke I don't know. I think DeGrom and Buehler are both headed in the right direction for that. Sale hasn't done enough.
I am on the fence w people like Andruw Jones. Really good for a bit then fell off a cliff. Beltre has 3000 hits so he gets in when eligible.
Many Ramirez should get more votes. I think he should be in.
Kent, Sheffield, Helton and Petite are all fringe HOFers to me. They were good but the numbers aren't there.
Sheffield and Pettitte should be in. Especially if people are saying Schilling should be in. Pettitte is over 100 wins over .500. That has to account for something
I really am wishy washy on Schilling... Sheffield hmmm.
So we talked about league leaders and stuff. Sheffield is one of those guys that never led the league in any of the major categories except once! He led the league in average. Crazy right?
He does have 500 HR's though but that doesn't guarantee you in anymore which is stupid. He has 500, open up the doors. These writers I just don't understand. It's a personal merit contest now. Asshole-not in, nice guy/decent ball player-welcome to the hall...
Pettitte is not in only because he admitted to the hgh
Borderline for me. He has a decent amount of wins that should be the standard now to get in. The WAR is a little low for HOF pitchers but not the lowest.
Pettitte is not a Hall of Famer to me. If he pitched for the Twins would anyone think he was a Hall of Famer? I don't think so. Good pitcher but never close to the best 5-10 in the game at any time in his career.
I think Bumgarner and Lester are both on the outside looking in, but MadBum is closer than Lester imo because he has the next 6, 7, 8 years to change that.
yeah, except for right now he kinda sucks.
No doubt. Hopefully he can turn it around.
But at the end of the day I think the first ballot guys are: Kershaw, Verlander, Kershaw, Grienke. Also, I guess Grienke goes in as a Royal and Scherzer as a Nat? Talk about two dominant guys that have spent close to half their time as journeymen (using that term very, very loosely).
Now to some hot takes: Jimmy Rollins should be a HOFer, full stop.
Out of all the names I saw thrown around, I agree with this one. Rollins was really good for a run. Does Howard get a chance in later? He didn't even get 5% and an argument could be made for him but I don't think he gets in.
Scott Rolen? If he gets in then Vizquel should but he will never see the Hall for the batboy incident.
Modern pitchers Kershaw, Scherzer and Verlander get in for sure. Grienke I don't know. I think DeGrom and Buehler are both headed in the right direction for that. Sale hasn't done enough.
I am on the fence w people like Andruw Jones. Really good for a bit then fell off a cliff. Beltre has 3000 hits so he gets in when eligible.
Many Ramirez should get more votes. I think he should be in.
Kent, Sheffield, Helton and Petite are all fringe HOFers to me. They were good but the numbers aren't there.
Sheffield and Pettitte should be in. Especially if people are saying Schilling should be in. Pettitte is over 100 wins over .500. That has to account for something
I really am wishy washy on Schilling... Sheffield hmmm.
So we talked about league leaders and stuff. Sheffield is one of those guys that never led the league in any of the major categories except once! He led the league in average. Crazy right?
He does have 500 HR's though but that doesn't guarantee you in anymore which is stupid. He has 500, open up the doors. These writers I just don't understand. It's a personal merit contest now. Asshole-not in, nice guy/decent ball player-welcome to the hall...
Pettitte is not in only because he admitted to the hgh
Borderline for me. He has a decent amount of wins that should be the standard now to get in. The WAR is a little low for HOF pitchers but not the lowest.
Pettitte is not a Hall of Famer to me. If he pitched for the Twins would anyone think he was a Hall of Famer? I don't think so. Good pitcher but never close to the best 5-10 in the game at any time in his career.
If he had the same numbers probably. And his post season he probably helps them win a World Series.
At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame. They just didnt get caught or implicated. I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa). Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders. I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2). Basically cheapened those hallowed records.
Bonds - , faced 'roided pitchers,
Wow, talk about the weakest, most raaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day, homer defense of Bonds anyone could possibly come up with
how is that a “homer” defense? Bonds and others were facing pitchers the likes of which ruth, maris, etc. never saw. Aaron faced great pitchers but he saw them over and over and they weren’t throwing 100+ mph. Do you realize how fast you have to react to 100 mph?
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Nobody should be allowed in the Hall Of Fame, until Fred Mcgriff is enshrined. 493 HR's and I am pretty damned sure he wasnt a steroid freak.
I loved Crime Dog. Followed him from his Toronto days until he joined that loaded Braves line-up. His consecutive 30+ homer seasons were still a rare thing at that time and the fact that he was a lefty like me made me enjoy watching him, and Griffey, the most.
Had a cool swing. Should be in at some point. Very good for quite awhile.
At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame. They just didnt get caught or implicated. I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa). Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders. I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2). Basically cheapened those hallowed records.
Bonds - , faced 'roided pitchers,
Wow, talk about the weakest, most raaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day, homer defense of Bonds anyone could possibly come up with
how is that a “homer” defense? Bonds and others were facing pitchers the likes of which ruth, maris, etc. never saw. Aaron faced great pitchers but he saw them over and over and they weren’t throwing 100+ mph. Do you realize how fast you have to react to 100 mph?
Because you said the pitchers were "roided up" when Barry is the poster child (a very large poster to fit that enormous head) for steroids in baseball. Barry was at a disadvantage because he faced pitchers that took steroids? I'd say that his steroid use more than nullified that disadvantage. Only the most ardent of Bonds apologists would use pitchers on steroids to make his case for induction.
Can it still be a HOF when the Hit King, the Home Run King and the pitcher who won the most Cy Youngs are not in? But, Bud Selig is in the HOF?
Do you take away the records from the players who took Greenies (which were taken over decades)? The players who ONLY played against white players? Where does it end?
Players should be in the HOF from their era, regardless of what people may THINK a player did, if they deserve to be inducted?
Can it still be a HOF when the Hit King, the Home Run King and the pitcher who won the most Cy Youngs are not in? But, Bud Selig is in the HOF?
Do you take away the records from the players who took Greenies (which were taken over decades)? The players who ONLY played against white players? Where does it end?
Players should be in the HOF from their era, regardless of what people may THINK a player did, if they deserve to be inducted?
Thoughts?
Good questions. Some of the HOF decisions seem hypocritical. I understand your point about Selig. I’ve heard reasoning for Ortiz was that he never failed a test after (so he hid it better or played clean after being caught?)
you are correct in the nuances of where do you start drawing the lines
other comparisons I have seen today include: Should Lance Armstrong be given his titles back? Ben Johnson his gold medal? Milli Vanilli their Grammys?
to me, if you cheated to get there you shouldn’t be in the HOF, but like you said, where do you start drawing the lines I just don’t care for the argument that it wasn’t illegal then, or everyone else was doing it
1996: Toronto 2003: St. Paul 2005: Thunder Bay 2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa 2009: Chicago I, Chicago II 2010: Boston 2011: Toronto I, Toronto II, Winnipeg 2012: Missoula 2013: London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo 2014: St. Paul, Milwaukee 2016: Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II 2022: Hamilton, Toronto 2023: St. Paul I, St. Paul II 2024: Vancouver I, Vancouver II
I’m fine with them taking PED’s into consideration but to simply blackball some guys and not others is just ludicrous.
If someone wants to look at a guy like Ortiz or Sosa and say “ya know, looking at these numbers and the way his career unfolded, I don’t think he has the resume without PED’s”, I feel like that’s part of the risk they took. I’m not one of those that says, they got the numbers, they saved baseball, whatever…Just make informed decisions and leave the grudges and asskissing out of it.
At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame. They just didnt get caught or implicated. I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa). Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders. I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2). Basically cheapened those hallowed records.
Bonds - , faced 'roided pitchers,
Wow, talk about the weakest, most raaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day, homer defense of Bonds anyone could possibly come up with
how is that a “homer” defense? Bonds and others were facing pitchers the likes of which ruth, maris, etc. never saw. Aaron faced great pitchers but he saw them over and over and they weren’t throwing 100+ mph. Do you realize how fast you have to react to 100 mph?
Because you said the pitchers were "roided up" when Barry is the poster child (a very large poster to fit that enormous head) for steroids in baseball. Barry was at a disadvantage because he faced pitchers that took steroids? I'd say that his steroid use more than nullified that disadvantage. Only the most ardent of Bonds apologists would use pitchers on steroids to make his case for induction.
It wasn’t necessarily a “case for induction”…..it was more an “every era is different “ argument.
just like basketball numbers (e.g. 3 point shot and changes in coaching philosophies), football numbers (more games, protecting the QB, etc), baseball (integration, coast to coast travel, emphasis on relief pitching, etc.)
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Can it still be a HOF when the Hit King, the Home Run King and the pitcher who won the most Cy Youngs are not in? But, Bud Selig is in the HOF?
Do you take away the records from the players who took Greenies (which were taken over decades)? The players who ONLY played against white players? Where does it end?
Players should be in the HOF from their era, regardless of what people may THINK a player did, if they deserve to be inducted?
Thoughts?
Good questions. Some of the HOF decisions seem hypocritical. I understand your point about Selig. I’ve heard reasoning for Ortiz was that he never failed a test after (so he hid it better or played clean after being caught?)
tons of guys DIDN’T fail tests. the only big names dumb enough to get caught were braun, manny (TWICE!), a-rod, tejada, palmiero, cruz and melky cabrera.
the selig case burns my ass…mr. see no evil do nothing act surprised. I also find it hypocritical that two steroid managers, torre and TLR, were elected on the first ballot.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
What’s going to happen when or if any of the Astro’s cheaters become eligible? will they be considered or will what they did be given a pass? granted, it was only for a certain period of time, but did it tarnish baseball’s reputation enough?
1996: Toronto 2003: St. Paul 2005: Thunder Bay 2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa 2009: Chicago I, Chicago II 2010: Boston 2011: Toronto I, Toronto II, Winnipeg 2012: Missoula 2013: London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo 2014: St. Paul, Milwaukee 2016: Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II 2022: Hamilton, Toronto 2023: St. Paul I, St. Paul II 2024: Vancouver I, Vancouver II
What’s going to happen when or if any of the Astro’s cheaters become eligible? will they be considered or will what they did be given a pass? granted, it was only for a certain period of time, but did it tarnish baseball’s reputation enough?
it will probably hurt them to a point but I doubt it will ultimately factor in.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
a writer suggested the giants bring bonds back for a day in order to restart his HOF clock. I like that idea.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame. They just didnt get caught or implicated. I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa). Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders. I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2). Basically cheapened those hallowed records.
Bonds - , faced 'roided pitchers,
Wow, talk about the weakest, most raaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day, homer defense of Bonds anyone could possibly come up with
how is that a “homer” defense? Bonds and others were facing pitchers the likes of which ruth, maris, etc. never saw. Aaron faced great pitchers but he saw them over and over and they weren’t throwing 100+ mph. Do you realize how fast you have to react to 100 mph?
Because you said the pitchers were "roided up" when Barry is the poster child (a very large poster to fit that enormous head) for steroids in baseball. Barry was at a disadvantage because he faced pitchers that took steroids? I'd say that his steroid use more than nullified that disadvantage. Only the most ardent of Bonds apologists would use pitchers on steroids to make his case for induction.
To me, Bonds' case is so egregious. He took chemicals to literally turn himself into a mutant. Then he shattered a few of the best records.
I have no love for Ortiz either. He reeks of a 1-tool slugger who probably took steroids the whole time.
But I cant answer where to set the line and stop the line. Nobody can. There is no line since MLB stupidly ignored this problem for so long. These neckbeard writers probably shouldnt be able to decide.
At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame. They just didnt get caught or implicated. I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa). Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders. I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2). Basically cheapened those hallowed records.
Bonds - , faced 'roided pitchers,
Wow, talk about the weakest, most raaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day, homer defense of Bonds anyone could possibly come up with
how is that a “homer” defense? Bonds and others were facing pitchers the likes of which ruth, maris, etc. never saw. Aaron faced great pitchers but he saw them over and over and they weren’t throwing 100+ mph. Do you realize how fast you have to react to 100 mph?
Because you said the pitchers were "roided up" when Barry is the poster child (a very large poster to fit that enormous head) for steroids in baseball. Barry was at a disadvantage because he faced pitchers that took steroids? I'd say that his steroid use more than nullified that disadvantage. Only the most ardent of Bonds apologists would use pitchers on steroids to make his case for induction.
To me, Bonds' case is so egregious. He took chemicals to literally turn himself into a mutant. Then he shattered a few of the best records.
I have no love for Ortiz either. He reeks of a 1-tool slugger who probably took steroids the whole time.
But I cant answer where to set the line and stop the line. Nobody can. There is no line since MLB stupidly ignored this problem for so long. These neckbeard writers probably shouldnt be able to decide.
Say what you will about Arod and Bonds, they were the best hitters I ever saw besides Pujols.
At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame. They just didnt get caught or implicated. I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa). Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders. I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2). Basically cheapened those hallowed records.
Bonds - , faced 'roided pitchers,
Wow, talk about the weakest, most raaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day, homer defense of Bonds anyone could possibly come up with
how is that a “homer” defense? Bonds and others were facing pitchers the likes of which ruth, maris, etc. never saw. Aaron faced great pitchers but he saw them over and over and they weren’t throwing 100+ mph. Do you realize how fast you have to react to 100 mph?
Because you said the pitchers were "roided up" when Barry is the poster child (a very large poster to fit that enormous head) for steroids in baseball. Barry was at a disadvantage because he faced pitchers that took steroids? I'd say that his steroid use more than nullified that disadvantage. Only the most ardent of Bonds apologists would use pitchers on steroids to make his case for induction.
To me, Bonds' case is so egregious. He took chemicals to literally turn himself into a mutant. Then he shattered a few of the best records.
I have no love for Ortiz either. He reeks of a 1-tool slugger who probably took steroids the whole time.
But I cant answer where to set the line and stop the line. Nobody can. There is no line since MLB stupidly ignored this problem for so long. These neckbeard writers probably shouldnt be able to decide.
Say what you will about Arod and Bonds, they were the best hitters I ever saw besides Pujols.
You gotta throw Ken Griffey Jr. in there too.
Bonds and Arod were great, but Bonds was WAY, WAY greater. Obviously Bonds wins out on HRs and slugging percentage and all that, but I've always felt this strikeout/walk comparison was a good way to show how much better Bonds was than Arod....
Bonds career plate appearances: 12,606 Arod career plate appearances: 10,566
Bonds career strikeouts: 1539 Arod career strikeouts: 2287 (5th most all-time)
Bonds career walks: 2558 (Most all-time) Arod career walks: 1338
Here comes another year where nobody should get in...
I mean, how is a guy like Matt Cain even on the ballot? Career 104-118 WL. Or R. A. Dickey with a120-118 career WL with a 4.04 ERA, if either gets one vote that person should be stripped of their voting privileges. Just silly. What are we even doing here? A career losing record is worthy of consideration for the Hall of Fame?
Comments
Can it still be a HOF when the Hit King, the Home Run King and the pitcher who won the most Cy Youngs are not in? But, Bud Selig is in the HOF?
Do you take away the records from the players who took Greenies (which were taken over decades)? The players who ONLY played against white players? Where does it end?
Players should be in the HOF from their era, regardless of what people may THINK a player did, if they deserve to be inducted?
So we talked about league leaders and stuff. Sheffield is one of those guys that never led the league in any of the major categories except once! He led the league in average. Crazy right?
He does have 500 HR's though but that doesn't guarantee you in anymore which is stupid. He has 500, open up the doors. These writers I just don't understand. It's a personal merit contest now. Asshole-not in, nice guy/decent ball player-welcome to the hall...
Problem is he got popped, twice.
I still think he should be in the hall. I don't see how steroids help him be the best 3rd basemen in baseball all those years...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Barry was at a disadvantage because he faced pitchers that took steroids? I'd say that his steroid use more than nullified that disadvantage. Only the most ardent of Bonds apologists would use pitchers on steroids to make his case for induction.
I’ve heard reasoning for Ortiz was that he never failed a test after (so he hid it better or played clean after being caught?)
you are correct in the nuances of where do you start drawing the lines
other comparisons I have seen today include:
Should Lance Armstrong be given his titles back?
Ben Johnson his gold medal?
Milli Vanilli their Grammys?
to me, if you cheated to get there you shouldn’t be in the HOF, but like you said, where do you start drawing the lines
I just don’t care for the argument that it wasn’t illegal then, or everyone else was doing it
2003: St. Paul
2005: Thunder Bay
2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa
2009: Chicago I, Chicago II
2010: Boston
2011: Toronto I, Toronto II, Winnipeg
2012: Missoula
2013: London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
2014: St. Paul, Milwaukee
2016: Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II
2022: Hamilton, Toronto
2023: St. Paul I, St. Paul II
2024: Vancouver I, Vancouver II
just like basketball numbers (e.g. 3 point shot and changes in coaching philosophies), football numbers (more games, protecting the QB, etc), baseball (integration, coast to coast travel, emphasis on relief pitching, etc.)
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
the selig case burns my ass…mr. see no evil do nothing act surprised. I also find it hypocritical that two steroid managers, torre and TLR, were elected on the first ballot.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
will they be considered or will what they did be given a pass?
granted, it was only for a certain period of time, but did it tarnish baseball’s reputation enough?
2003: St. Paul
2005: Thunder Bay
2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa
2009: Chicago I, Chicago II
2010: Boston
2011: Toronto I, Toronto II, Winnipeg
2012: Missoula
2013: London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
2014: St. Paul, Milwaukee
2016: Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II
2022: Hamilton, Toronto
2023: St. Paul I, St. Paul II
2024: Vancouver I, Vancouver II
it will probably hurt them to a point but I doubt it will ultimately factor in.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
I have no love for Ortiz either. He reeks of a 1-tool slugger who probably took steroids the whole time.
But I cant answer where to set the line and stop the line. Nobody can. There is no line since MLB stupidly ignored this problem for so long. These neckbeard writers probably shouldnt be able to decide.
Bonds and Arod were great, but Bonds was WAY, WAY greater. Obviously Bonds wins out on HRs and slugging percentage and all that, but I've always felt this strikeout/walk comparison was a good way to show how much better Bonds was than Arod....
Bonds career plate appearances: 12,606
Arod career plate appearances: 10,566
Bonds career strikeouts: 1539
Arod career strikeouts: 2287 (5th most all-time)
Bonds career walks: 2558 (Most all-time)
Arod career walks: 1338
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
What are we even doing here? A career losing record is worthy of consideration for the Hall of Fame?