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MLB 2020 Off-Season

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  • Who PrincessWho Princess out here in the fieldsPosts: 7,291
    cutz said:
    pjhawks said:
    I was watching the philly show on nugs and missed it. Caught the highlights though.

    Last play Reminded me of this Simpsons episode :lol: 


    it was like little league. worst player bloops in a hit, outfielder misplays easy ball, runner falls down, cutoff man  (2nd cutoff man?) is too far down the line but catches ball and throws to catcher who misses it badly and player who fell down scores.  if that was my team that lost in the fashion something would have gotten broken in the house.
    You describe that play perfectly pjhawks, and the same reaction I' would've had too if my team lost a WS game like that.
    :lol:  Great description.  The Dodgers had total WTF expressions.  Probably some things did get broken after the game.

    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 21,424
    Two of my best friends are Doyers fans.  A group of us from college have a text chain always going and the comments to/from them about that ending were great.
    I'm guessing things were broken.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 26,082
    cutz said:
    pjhawks said:
    I was watching the philly show on nugs and missed it. Caught the highlights though.

    Last play Reminded me of this Simpsons episode :lol: 


    it was like little league. worst player bloops in a hit, outfielder misplays easy ball, runner falls down, cutoff man  (2nd cutoff man?) is too far down the line but catches ball and throws to catcher who misses it badly and player who fell down scores.  if that was my team that lost in the fashion something would have gotten broken in the house.
    You describe that play perfectly pjhawks, and the same reaction I' would've had too if my team lost a WS game like that.
    :lol:  Great description.  The Dodgers had total WTF expressions.  Probably some things did get broken after the game.


    d**gers always have WTF expressions.

    does anyone in the world like them, other than ernie?
    If I had known then what I know now...

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  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 10,636
    edited October 28
    Snell dominating gives up one hit in the sixth and gets pulled. Fuck analytics...ruining the game

    good move Cash. Idiotic
    Post edited by pjhawks on
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 30,895
    Lol boom fuck the rays, especially cash 
  • cutzcutz Posts: 9,678
    pjhawks said:
    Snell dominating gives up one hit in the sixth and gets pulled. Fuck analytics...ruining the game
    It sucks. 

    The LAD were like:"YEAH, Snell's out of the game."

    Snell was mowing them down.
  • cutzcutz Posts: 9,678
    Computer says to take the pitcher out
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 10,636
    cutz said:
    pjhawks said:
    Snell dominating gives up one hit in the sixth and gets pulled. Fuck analytics...ruining the game
    It sucks. 

    The LAD were like:"YEAH, Snell's out of the game."

    Snell was mowing them down.
    And the next three batters, top 3 in lineup, were 0 for 6 with Ks against Snell.  Just crazy
  • cutzcutz Posts: 9,678
    pjhawks said:
    cutz said:
    pjhawks said:
    Snell dominating gives up one hit in the sixth and gets pulled. Fuck analytics...ruining the game
    It sucks. 

    The LAD were like:"YEAH, Snell's out of the game."

    Snell was mowing them down.
    And the next three batters, top 3 in lineup, were 0 for 6 with Ks against Snell.  Just crazy
    Yes they were. 

    Snell was dealing. I don't care what that computer says, he has to stay in that game.
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 19,996
    Well this sucks 
    I miss igotid88
  • cutzcutz Posts: 9,678
    A lot of Tweets from some players:

    https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/2045221
  • Who PrincessWho Princess out here in the fieldsPosts: 7,291
    edited October 28
    Was that the weirdest WS I've ever watched?   This analytics crap is killing baseball.  My team probably won't make the playoffs for another 10 years, so I'm just tuning in to what are supposed to be the 2 best teams in baseball and enjoying the competition.   Instead one night I'm hearing in the first inning "the Dodgers will be using 6 pitchers in this game."   You've already decided so that's that?  And tonight pulling Snell for giving up one hit?  They might as well be using ouija boards as computers.   
    Post edited by Who Princess on
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • eeriepadaveeeriepadave West Chester, PAPosts: 34,031
    Congrats to the Dodgers, definitely a weird but good world series.
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  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,198
    Here's how much things have changed...in the game 7 of the 1991 World Series (Jack Morris' 10-inning shutout masterpiece), the following occurred in the 8th inning, with the score tied 0-0.

    -Morris gives up a single (which is what got Snell pulled in the 6th inning after 73 pitches)
    -Morris gives up a double (runners now on second and third)
    -Morris gets a weak grounder to 1st for an out (runner doesn't try to score)
    -Intentional walk to load the bases
    -Morris gets another weak grounder to 1st and they turn a double play

    He'd go onto retire the side 1-2-3 in both the 9th and 10th innings, and the Twins scored in the bottom of the 10th to win 1-0. Morris threw 125 pitches. 

    Now this is a bit of an extreme example. Two men on in 8th inning is a tough situation and it took balls to leave Morris in, and a masterful job by him to get out of it. But the point remains: if the pitcher is dealing in a World Series elimination game, ride with him as long as you can. 
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  • mfc2006mfc2006 PDX--->KCPosts: 33,258
    What a strange season.

    Snell should have stayed in. Period.

    Congrats to the Dodgers fans. I was really hoping the Astros had made it to the WS for a rematch, but congrats to Tampa for knocking them out.

    Not sure what happened with Turner and why he was back on the field without a mask. That’s 2020 for ya.

    Enjoy the win, Dodgers fans! Bring on 2021 already!
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  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 13,667
    cutz said:
    pjhawks said:
    cutz said:
    pjhawks said:
    Snell dominating gives up one hit in the sixth and gets pulled. Fuck analytics...ruining the game
    It sucks. 

    The LAD were like:"YEAH, Snell's out of the game."

    Snell was mowing them down.
    And the next three batters, top 3 in lineup, were 0 for 6 with Ks against Snell.  Just crazy
    Yes they were. 

    Snell was dealing. I don't care what that computer says, he has to stay in that game.

    Yep.  Gotta find that balance between the analytics and just using your fucking brain.  That was insanity last night.
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 7,356
    edited October 28
    Here's how much things have changed...in the game 7 of the 1991 World Series (Jack Morris' 10-inning shutout masterpiece), the following occurred in the 8th inning, with the score tied 0-0.

    -Morris gives up a single (which is what got Snell pulled in the 6th inning after 73 pitches)
    -Morris gives up a double (runners now on second and third)
    -Morris gets a weak grounder to 1st for an out (runner doesn't try to score)
    -Intentional walk to load the bases
    -Morris gets another weak grounder to 1st and they turn a double play

    He'd go onto retire the side 1-2-3 in both the 9th and 10th innings, and the Twins scored in the bottom of the 10th to win 1-0. Morris threw 125 pitches. 

    Now this is a bit of an extreme example. Two men on in 8th inning is a tough situation and it took balls to leave Morris in, and a masterful job by him to get out of it. But the point remains: if the pitcher is dealing in a World Series elimination game, ride with him as long as you can. 
    I was thinking of this last night since that was my Twins team that took that Game 7 and it was a nail biter watching as an 11 year old. Jump ahead to now and my 11 year old son gets to see the shit show of what baseball games have become. No one trusts their ace to just deal anymore. It has changed the mentality and edge an ace pitcher can have in those situations. When you have to be out there wondering if 1 more hit or ball will be the end of your night even though you are doing great. We now have guys who specialize in being a set-up to the set-up guy or who are 1 batter dart throws to see if the analytics are correct. Really waters down the game and makes it less exciting.

    Imagine if late in the football game, the coach pulled the starting QB because the back-up specialized in deep passes or bootlegs. In baseball though, it's just become part of the norm so no one really complains about it.

    Edit: I feel like I also remember hearing that Morris wouldn't let TK pull him. Maybe I'm making that up or getting it mixed up with another pitcher/game.

    Nevermind I found it:

    Neither team posed much of a threat in the ninth, although Minnesota had two on with no outs before Atlanta turned a double play. After nine full innings, Kelly told Morris he was going to take him out, but after a dugout conference the decision was made to leave the 18-game winner on the mound.

    “I want to know one thing: Who was going to take (Morris) out of this game? Who would have had the courage to say ‘Jack, you’re done’,” Twins outfielder Randy Bush asked Sports Illustrated. “I don’t think anyone would have done it. If it was (Tom Kelly), Jack would have punched him, kicked him – he might have killed him.”

    Post edited by tbergs on
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 10,654
    Strange season, strange World Series for sure.

    I didn't want them to play.  Wanted them to just figure out a better labor system with a shut down.  It was worth it though.  Especially with a great playoffs.

    Happy the Dodgers won it I guess.  Not a fan of the payroll.  I met Dave Roberts before and he was a really nice person.  The Dodgers are an historic franchise and have been knocking at the door for some time.  I wasn't rooting for anyone in the WS, but was hoping for a Game 7.

    Hopefully we have fans in a greater capacity in 2021.  
  • That was the greatest misuse of Analytics. 

    Analytics is not the problem. It's the interpretation and use of them.    The best statistics do not predict isolated, independent incidents.  If it said 60% (I'm guessing it was less than that if anything), that means there's a whole bunch of situations they're the wrong decision to follow. The best leaders improve their outcomes by using the statistics then adjusting to the situation.

    The stats weren't wrong. The user was.  

    If you're following Analytics, Cash should be fired as he proved himself a poor leader when the team needed him the most.  It's exactly those decision points that separate success and failure.  Saying he should have been right more often than wrong doesn't suffice as he is highly unlikely to get into that exact situation again (Decisive game, World Championship, Ace throwing darts with no sign of tiring).
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 19,298
    That was the greatest misuse of Analytics. 

    Analytics is not the problem. It's the interpretation and use of them.    The best statistics do not predict isolated, independent incidents.  If it said 60% (I'm guessing it was less than that if anything), that means there's a whole bunch of situations they're the wrong decision to follow. The best leaders improve their outcomes by using the statistics then adjusting to the situation.

    The stats weren't wrong. The user was.  

    If you're following Analytics, Cash should be fired as he proved himself a poor leader when the team needed him the most.  It's exactly those decision points that separate success and failure.  Saying he should have been right more often than wrong doesn't suffice as he is highly unlikely to get into that exact situation again (Decisive game, World Championship, Ace throwing darts with no sign of tiring).
    I'm pretty sure he won't be fired.  
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 15,833
    "Analytics" are ruining this sport.  This stupid shit almost cost my Cubbies in 2016 when Hendricks was dealing in Game 7 and Maddon pulled him after a 2-out walk in the 5th.  It absolutely, most definitely, without-a-doubt, 100% cost the Rays last night. 

    When your starter is on pace to throw a fucking Maddux in a must-win game in the World Series, it is both an insult to said starter and Greg Maddux to pull him. Kevin Cash should be fired today.  Period.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 19,298
    "Analytics" are ruining this sport.  This stupid shit almost cost my Cubbies in 2016 when Hendricks was dealing in Game 7 and Maddon pulled him after a 2-out walk in the 5th.  It absolutely, most definitely, without-a-doubt, 100% cost the Rays last night. 

    When your starter is on pace to throw a fucking Maddux in a must-win game in the World Series, it is both an insult to said starter and Greg Maddux to pull him. Kevin Cash should be fired today.  Period.
    I don't know if it cost them or not.  You have to score more than 1 run to beat the Dodgers.  
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,198
    tbergs said:
    Here's how much things have changed...in the game 7 of the 1991 World Series (Jack Morris' 10-inning shutout masterpiece), the following occurred in the 8th inning, with the score tied 0-0.

    -Morris gives up a single (which is what got Snell pulled in the 6th inning after 73 pitches)
    -Morris gives up a double (runners now on second and third)
    -Morris gets a weak grounder to 1st for an out (runner doesn't try to score)
    -Intentional walk to load the bases
    -Morris gets another weak grounder to 1st and they turn a double play

    He'd go onto retire the side 1-2-3 in both the 9th and 10th innings, and the Twins scored in the bottom of the 10th to win 1-0. Morris threw 125 pitches. 

    Now this is a bit of an extreme example. Two men on in 8th inning is a tough situation and it took balls to leave Morris in, and a masterful job by him to get out of it. But the point remains: if the pitcher is dealing in a World Series elimination game, ride with him as long as you can. 
    I was thinking of this last night since that was my Twins team that took that Game 7 and it was a nail biter watching as an 11 year old. Jump ahead to now and my 11 year old son gets to see the shit show of what baseball games have become. No one trusts their ace to just deal anymore. It has changed the mentality and edge an ace pitcher can have in those situations. When you have to be out there wondering if 1 more hit or ball will be the end of your night even though you are doing great. We now have guys who specialize in being a set-up to the set-up guy or who are 1 batter dart throws to see if the analytics are correct. Really waters down the game and makes it less exciting.

    Imagine if late in the football game, the coach pulled the starting QB because the back-up specialized in deep passes or bootlegs. In baseball though, it's just become part of the norm so no one really complains about it.

    Edit: I feel like I also remember hearing that Morris wouldn't let TK pull him. Maybe I'm making that up or getting it mixed up with another pitcher/game.

    Nevermind I found it:

    Neither team posed much of a threat in the ninth, although Minnesota had two on with no outs before Atlanta turned a double play. After nine full innings, Kelly told Morris he was going to take him out, but after a dugout conference the decision was made to leave the 18-game winner on the mound.

    “I want to know one thing: Who was going to take (Morris) out of this game? Who would have had the courage to say ‘Jack, you’re done’,” Twins outfielder Randy Bush asked Sports Illustrated. “I don’t think anyone would have done it. If it was (Tom Kelly), Jack would have punched him, kicked him – he might have killed him.”

    And there's the difference. Back then, the manager discusses the situation with the pitcher, and takes that into consideration when making his decision. Now, a the decision is pre-ordained by a bunch of computer nerds. 
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  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 15,833
    mrussel1 said:
    "Analytics" are ruining this sport.  This stupid shit almost cost my Cubbies in 2016 when Hendricks was dealing in Game 7 and Maddon pulled him after a 2-out walk in the 5th.  It absolutely, most definitely, without-a-doubt, 100% cost the Rays last night. 

    When your starter is on pace to throw a fucking Maddux in a must-win game in the World Series, it is both an insult to said starter and Greg Maddux to pull him. Kevin Cash should be fired today.  Period.
    I don't know if it cost them or not.  You have to score more than 1 run to beat the Dodgers.  
    You only need score 1 more run than the Dodgers.  Snell was in total command of that.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 19,298
    mrussel1 said:
    "Analytics" are ruining this sport.  This stupid shit almost cost my Cubbies in 2016 when Hendricks was dealing in Game 7 and Maddon pulled him after a 2-out walk in the 5th.  It absolutely, most definitely, without-a-doubt, 100% cost the Rays last night. 

    When your starter is on pace to throw a fucking Maddux in a must-win game in the World Series, it is both an insult to said starter and Greg Maddux to pull him. Kevin Cash should be fired today.  Period.
    I don't know if it cost them or not.  You have to score more than 1 run to beat the Dodgers.  
    You only need score 1 more run than the Dodgers.  Snell was in total command of that.
    Yes,  but third time through,  etc.  Rays still only scored 1.
  • cutzcutz Posts: 9,678
    I watched because it's baseball but I really wasn't into it like I usually am.  They didn't even play half a season's worth of games, including playoffs, so that has something to do with not being into it. 
  • mfc2006mfc2006 PDX--->KCPosts: 33,258
    "Analytics" are ruining this sport.  This stupid shit almost cost my Cubbies in 2016 when Hendricks was dealing in Game 7 and Maddon pulled him after a 2-out walk in the 5th.  It absolutely, most definitely, without-a-doubt, 100% cost the Rays last night. 

    When your starter is on pace to throw a fucking Maddux in a must-win game in the World Series, it is both an insult to said starter and Greg Maddux to pull him. Kevin Cash should be fired today.  Period.
    Same thing happened with Grienke in last years WS. He should’ve stayed in. 
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  • mrussel1 said:
    That was the greatest misuse of Analytics. 

    Analytics is not the problem. It's the interpretation and use of them.    The best statistics do not predict isolated, independent incidents.  If it said 60% (I'm guessing it was less than that if anything), that means there's a whole bunch of situations they're the wrong decision to follow. The best leaders improve their outcomes by using the statistics then adjusting to the situation.

    The stats weren't wrong. The user was.  

    If you're following Analytics, Cash should be fired as he proved himself a poor leader when the team needed him the most.  It's exactly those decision points that separate success and failure.  Saying he should have been right more often than wrong doesn't suffice as he is highly unlikely to get into that exact situation again (Decisive game, World Championship, Ace throwing darts with no sign of tiring).
    I'm pretty sure he won't be fired.  
    So I guess I shouldn’t have added the one thing I didn’t actually say.  Lol. Nobody expects him to be fired. 
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYCPosts: 8,447
    Cash isn't getting fired but the process of that decision was bad. Snell at least deserved to face the top of the lineup another time, especially if the first reliever was someone who had been scored upon six straight outings.
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