Sexting is it Pornography or Innocent Fun

puremagic

The sharing and selling of explicit photos taken by and of young girls is growing in schools across the country. Most school officials, parents and even local law enforcement seemingly want to dismiss this activity as innocent fun with a stern lecture. By legal definition, its pornography. If held to the legal standards, the participants would be classified as sex offenders for even possessing such photos of under age children, let alone buying, selling and trading these photos.

What are some of your thoughts on how to get a handle on this growing problem?

marcos

It's porn especially when children are involved. They haven't developed adequate reasoning skills to properly consider the ramifications and should not be encouraged. Although the media does sexualize children more so these days then ever. But it still should be considered porn, even what the media does as well.

BinauralJam

Innocent Fun

CJMST3K

I have a hard time calling people taking photos of themselves criminals, no matter their age. So for the kids doing it, I don't see any point in criminalizing them. This whole issue is moving faster than the laws, but such is the case with any technology legal issue.

BinauralJam

If your 16 and and have a 15 year old girlfriend, who takes a nude picture of herself and sends it to you, how the hell can you have a sexual predator label put on you until your 21, just because the girl's mom found out and freaked. Think back to when you were 16, and in love or even lust, you can't tell a kid that there feeling's and instincts aren't valid because the LAW says so. From there point of veiw there just as vaild as any adults they know, including there parents. There's too many damn law's in this country as it is.

puremagic

The problem is sexting is getting younger than 15 and 16.

Even if they take pictures out of feelings of being love struck or maybe to be part of the crowd, if the pictures are being passed around and sold. The love and respect is diminished.

Ok, lets say the boy is proud of his girlfriend and shows the pictures to a couple of his buddies. Then lets say one of his buddies ask for a copy of the picture so he can get his girlfriend to do the same thing. Ok, lets now say the other girlfriend does the same thing and the boys are now sharing both photos. We all know, that when your girlfriend screws your buddy, and even if you take her back, she becomes just another piece of ass, until you find another girlfriend.

In the world of texting explicit photos of girlfriends or potential girlfriends, if your passing them around and selling them, at what point do the pictures go from looking at a girlfriend, to looking at a piece of ass, which reduces the photo to the level of porno.

The negative effects are there, so is there a way to curb the trend before we start seeing suicides, or people labeled as sex offender? Just say no, never works, lectures are good for the length of time to complete them, and no parent has 24/7 eye contact.

Would people have a problem if all parties were required to wear monitors for a period of time and perform 'real' community services?

FiveB247x

I don't know what the answer is but it is definitely an issue of technology and media's terrible effects on society gone awry. Not sure how you monitor or "fix" it or even deal with the people doing it (meaning kids, not adults - thats another story).

BinauralJam

puremagic wrote:

The problem is sexting is getting younger than 15 and 16.

Even if they take pictures out of feelings of being love struck or maybe to be part of the crowd, if the pictures are being passed around and sold. The love and respect is diminished.

Ok, lets say the boy is proud of his girlfriend and shows the pictures to a couple of his buddies. Then lets say one of his buddies ask for a copy of the picture so he can get his girlfriend to do the same thing. Ok, lets now say the other girlfriend does the same thing and the boys are now sharing both photos. We all know, that when your girlfriend screws your buddy, and even if you take her back, she becomes just another piece of ass, until you find another girlfriend.

In the world of texting explicit photos of girlfriends or potential girlfriends, if your passing them around and selling them, at what point do the pictures go from looking at a girlfriend, to looking at a piece of ass, which reduces the photo to the level of porno.

The negative effects are there, so is there a way to curb the trend before we start seeing suicides, or people labeled as sex offender? Just say no, never works, lectures are good for the length of time to complete them, and no parent has 24/7 eye contact.

Would people have a problem if all parties were required to wear monitors for a period of time and perform 'real' community services?

You make a good point.

puremagic

FiveB247x wrote:

I don't know what the answer is but it is definitely an issue of technology and media's terrible effects on society gone awry. Not sure how you monitor or "fix" it or even deal with the people doing it (meaning kids, not adults - thats another story).

People can and will blame the media, however, at some point a person must be accountable for their own actions. If you are removing your own clothes for the purpose of taking explicit pictures to give to another person, you are responsible for your own action.

Here's a problem that's somewhat in its infancy, and, if people talk about it, I think parents, educators, teenagers and law enforcement can get a handle on it before it takes off running.

What I'm suggesting is if they get caught sexting, maybe the alternative to labeling them sex offenders, would be to make them wear ankle monitors with a curfew, they'd have to perform real community services, and parents would be required to monitor the use of their computers and any other electronic devices.

Anything would be better than being a registered sex offender for life, because, taking, explicit pictures of minors -even if the picture is taken by the minor- for the purpose of distribution and profit is ' trafficking in child pornography'. no matter how innocent it was intended. There's no greener grass on the otherside of that charge. The label is for life.

Technology has changed the rules and we need to catch up without adding to the problem.

_

puremagic wrote:

The problem is sexting is getting younger than 15 and 16.

Even if they take pictures out of feelings of being love struck or maybe to be part of the crowd, if the pictures are being passed around and sold. The love and respect is diminished.

Ok, lets say the boy is proud of his girlfriend and shows the pictures to a couple of his buddies. Then lets say one of his buddies ask for a copy of the picture so he can get his girlfriend to do the same thing. Ok, lets now say the other girlfriend does the same thing and the boys are now sharing both photos. We all know, that when your girlfriend screws your buddy, and even if you take her back, she becomes just another piece of ass, until you find another girlfriend.

In the world of texting explicit photos of girlfriends or potential girlfriends, if your passing them around and selling them, at what point do the pictures go from looking at a girlfriend, to looking at a piece of ass, which reduces the photo to the level of porno.

The negative effects are there, so is there a way to curb the trend before we start seeing suicides, or people labeled as sex offender? Just say no, never works, lectures are good for the length of time to complete them, and no parent has 24/7 eye contact.

Would people have a problem if all parties were required to wear monitors for a period of time and perform 'real' community services?

I agree that it's a problem. My friend teaches 11 & 12-year-olds and says they'll ask for a hall pass to use the restroom and while they're in there they'll take sexual pictures of themselves to send to their "boyfriends" or whoever. That's 11 and 12-year-olds! :shock:

I think social norms are obviously the problem. Until we get to the underlying issue and teach our children that they don't need to be sexual objects in order to be desirable, we'll still have girls texting naked pictures of themselves, giving blow jobs at parties, etc. And it surely doesn't help that sexting is becoming the norm among adults too. (I had a thread about it a few months ago.)

Of course it's unlikely that we'll really solve this underlying issue any time soon, so this practice will continue. I understand that teenagers' feelings & sexual desires are valid, that they often engage in sexual activity, and that this is another such activity. I think the main problem that sets this particular sexual activity apart from others is that there is a record of it... and that record doesn't go away and can be distributed beyond one's control.

I'd say there's a particular problem when: 1) The picture was taken without permission. 2) The picture was taken with permission, but the child has not reached the age of consent. 3) The picture was distributed without permission. (Or maybe even with permission?) 4) The picture is bought/sold/traded. 5) The picture is possessed by an adult.

Basically, it seems to me that the laws regarding sexual activity for minors should definitely apply to sexting. As far as the laws regarding child pornography go, I certainly am against child pornography and am not saying that these laws should not apply here. But I understand that it's a little more complicated when two people are legally allowed to engage in sexual activity but this particular activity falls under child porn laws. (Did that make sense?)

BinauralJam

i did read about this one case where a 15 kid/boy had sex with a 13 year old girl he had been dating for 6 months, she told her mom, who freaked and had him prosecuted. he became a registered sex offender until he was 21. he went from a outgoing normal teenager, good grades, sports, to a inverted, self concious depressed and eventually alcoholic young man. OK, he had sex with her, but the same outcome could occur NOW if he had sent her a nude photo of himself. There's got to be degree's of punishment, not one judgement to rule all imporprioty. sorry my spelling sucks.

Wobbie

it's neither.....but it is a pretty good example of how "our world" continues to go into the shitter.

FiveB247x

Yes but we're not talking about just anyone - we're talking about minors/kids. That is more a reflection of society then simply them being curious or mischievous.

I agree with you about not being labeled a sex offender in these cases, but I don't know the proper or just way to punish people for these kind of scenarios.

puremagic wrote:

People can and will blame the media, however, at some point a person must be accountable for their own actions. If you are removing your own clothes for the purpose of taking explicit pictures to give to another person, you are responsible for your own action.

Here's a problem that's somewhat in its infancy, and, if people talk about it, I think parents, educators, teenagers and law enforcement can get a handle on it before it takes off running.

What I'm suggesting is if they get caught sexting, maybe the alternative to labeling them sex offenders, would be to make them wear ankle monitors with a curfew, they'd have to perform real community services, and parents would be required to monitor the use of their computers and any other electronic devices.

Anything would be better than being a registered sex offender for life, because, taking, explicit pictures of minors -even if the picture is taken by the minor- for the purpose of distribution and profit is ' trafficking in child pornography'. no matter how innocent it was intended. There's no greener grass on the otherside of that charge. The label is for life.

Technology has changed the rules and we need to catch up without adding to the problem.

CJMST3K

scb wrote:

I'd say there's a particular problem when: 1) The picture was taken without permission. 2) The picture was taken with permission, but the child has not reached the age of consent. 3) The picture was distributed without permission. (Or maybe even with permission?) 4) The picture is bought/sold/traded. 5) The picture is possessed by an adult.

1) I completely agree with.

2) If the child has not reached an "age of consent" then it should be illegal for them to use or possess a cell phone with a camera, until they are at the age of consent to everything they might do with that cell phone with a camera. Kids can't possess alcohol, even if they're not drinking it.

3) I agree with the first half of.

4) I agree with.

5) What happens if a teen wants to setup an adult? If a 15 year sext a picture of themselves to some 19 year old they don't like, they can do so, and "bam", that 19 year old has committed a crime. I'm against calling an unwilling/unknowing/unsuspecting person a criminal, or the potential of that scenario. Not that this is the most likely scenario, but it's way too easy to make someone a criminal by sending a text message TO them.

_

2) I see your point, but the person being photographed is not necessarily the one taking/using the camera; I think it's frequently someone older - at least I guess that's the scenario I had in mind. Also, because sexting is not the primary use of a camera phone (and I think most phones are camera phones these days) and because the majority of kids under the age of consent aren't doing anything wrong (though I'd love to know the rate of sexting among just kids with camera phones), I don't think they should ALL be punished (which is not to say that I think 11-year-olds should have cell phones anyway). Cell phones & alcohol are not comparable. Alcohol is at least a little bit harmful every time it is used by a child. Cell phones, however, are generally not harmful & can even be used to make kids safer.

5) All the adult has to do is delete the picture. It's not any different than current laws preventing the possession of child pornography. In fact, It would be a lot easier for a kid to, say, upload porn onto a teacher's computer without him knowing it - but we still make that illegal, ya know?

Starfall

CJMST3K wrote:

2) If the child has not reached an "age of consent" then it should be illegal for them to use or possess a cell phone with a camera, until they are at the age of consent to everything they might do with that cell phone with a camera. Kids can't possess alcohol, even if they're not drinking it.

No. By that logic, they can't operate computers with webcams, or heck, they can't use computers, cameras, regular telephones, either, because of all the illegal things they "might" do with it.

It's much better to teach them proper netiquette - how to behave online and using cyberspace - than to slap irons on them. It's never worked that way. Has banning alcohol for kids ever stopped teenage drinking? Certainly didn't stop me.

5) What happens if a teen wants to setup an adult? If a 15 year sext a picture of themselves to some 19 year old they don't like, they can do so, and "bam", that 19 year old has committed a crime. I'm against calling an unwilling/unknowing/unsuspecting person a criminal, or the potential of that scenario. Not that this is the most likely scenario, but it's way too easy to make someone a criminal by sending a text message TO them.

From what I remember of Federal law, It's not illegal per se to receive a picture like that, but it IS illegal to keep it, archive it, or forward it.

Kevinman

Why doesn't anyone sext me?

_

Kevinman wrote:

Why doesn't anyone sext me?

I have a few cock shots I'd be happy to forward you.

Kevinman

scb wrote:

Kevinman wrote:

Why doesn't anyone sext me?

I have a few cock shots I'd be happy to forward you.

That's ok, thanks though. Maybe I'd prefer not to be sexted.

_

Kevinman wrote:

scb wrote:

Kevinman wrote:

Why doesn't anyone sext me?

I have a few cock shots I'd be happy to forward you.

That's ok, thanks though. Maybe I'd prefer not to be sexted.

Yeah, that's what I said, too, when I received them.

CJMST3K

Starfall wrote:

CJMST3K wrote:

2) If the child has not reached an "age of consent" then it should be illegal for them to use or possess a cell phone with a camera, until they are at the age of consent to everything they might do with that cell phone with a camera. Kids can't possess alcohol, even if they're not drinking it.

No. By that logic, they can't operate computers with webcams, or heck, they can't use computers, cameras, regular telephones, either, because of all the illegal things they "might" do with it.

It's much better to teach them proper netiquette - how to behave online and using cyberspace - than to slap irons on them. It's never worked that way. Has banning alcohol for kids ever stopped teenage drinking? Certainly didn't stop me.

Agreed, it would have implications about webcams or anything that can take a picture digitally. But if that same kid can take a photo of themselves, then themselves become a criminal because of it... then there should be some really strong safeguards against that, as long as the law considers a kid to takes a naked photo of themselves like a criminal. I forget which station, but I think a few years ago some kid was in legal trouble for having their own photos on their own phone.

_

CJMST3K wrote:

Agreed, it would have implications about webcams or anything that can take a picture digitally. But if that same kid can take a photo of themselves, then themselves become a criminal because of it... then there should be some really strong safeguards against that, as long as the law considers a kid to takes a naked photo of themselves like a criminal. I forget which station, but I think a few years ago some kid was in legal trouble for having their own photos on their own phone.

If a child hasn't reached the "age of consent" that means the law doesn't believe they are mentally/emotionally capable of making decisions about sexual activity. They are essentially not held responsible for their decision to engage in sexual activity. How, then, can we hold them legally responsible for this kind of sexual activity? (I'm talking here about a child taking a picture of him/herself. Also, the age of consent where I live is 13, so I'm talking about children 12 and under.)

CJMST3K

scb wrote:

CJMST3K wrote:

Agreed, it would have implications about webcams or anything that can take a picture digitally. But if that same kid can take a photo of themselves, then themselves become a criminal because of it... then there should be some really strong safeguards against that, as long as the law considers a kid to takes a naked photo of themselves like a criminal. I forget which station, but I think a few years ago some kid was in legal trouble for having their own photos on their own phone.

If a child hasn't reached the "age of consent" that means the law doesn't believe they are mentally/emotionally capable of making decisions about sexual activity. They are essentially not held responsible for their decision to engage in sexual activity. How, then, can we hold them legally responsible for this kind of sexual activity? (I'm talking here about a child taking a picture of him/herself. Also, the age of consent where I live is 13, so I'm talking about children 12 and under.)

If kids aren't legally responsible for photos they take of themselves, then that's ok. I recall hearing something about some kid getting in trouble for a photo of themself, but I can't think of where in the US that was.

_

CJMST3K wrote:

scb wrote:

CJMST3K wrote:

Agreed, it would have implications about webcams or anything that can take a picture digitally. But if that same kid can take a photo of themselves, then themselves become a criminal because of it... then there should be some really strong safeguards against that, as long as the law considers a kid to takes a naked photo of themselves like a criminal. I forget which station, but I think a few years ago some kid was in legal trouble for having their own photos on their own phone.

If a child hasn't reached the "age of consent" that means the law doesn't believe they are mentally/emotionally capable of making decisions about sexual activity. They are essentially not held responsible for their decision to engage in sexual activity. How, then, can we hold them legally responsible for this kind of sexual activity? (I'm talking here about a child taking a picture of him/herself. Also, the age of consent where I live is 13, so I'm talking about children 12 and under.)

If kids aren't legally responsible for photos they take of themselves, then that's ok. I recall hearing something about some kid getting in trouble for a photo of themself, but I can't think of where in the US that was.

Yes, I've heard of that happening too. I didn't mean to suggest that they AREN'T being held responsible; only that perhaps they shouldn't be held responsible. Also, I don't know that there have been any kids under the age of consent who have been prosecuted. I think perhaps the issue is that it is being viewed under child pornography laws vs. sexual activity laws. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but I think it's something to think about. I do think once a picture leaves the hands of the person in the picture and the person it was intended for, that changes things.

CJMST3K

scb wrote:

I do think once a picture leaves the hands of the person in the picture and the person it was intended for, that changes things.

Good point, but what if the picture was intended for a 52 year old man, and not a "teen boyfriend"? It's all pretty murky in the law on this whole subject.

_

CJMST3K wrote:

scb wrote:

I do think once a picture leaves the hands of the person in the picture and the person it was intended for, that changes things.

Good point, but what if the picture was intended for a 52 year old man, and not a "teen boyfriend"? It's all pretty murky in the law on this whole subject.

Well that gets back to #5 in my post above. I actually don't think the law is murky when it comes to adults being involved though. I think both the sexual activity and child pornography laws are pretty clear on that one.

cheech721

I don't have a problem with it personally. I don't receive texts from anyone that is underage, and don't plan on it. I have received pictures from girlfriends but have never forwarded them on to other friends after the breakup, I wouldn't want them to do that to me. All in all as long as the participants are old enough and it stays with the people that were intended to have it, I think it is fine.

catefrances

cheech721 wrote:

I don't have a problem with it personally. I don't receive texts from anyone that is underage, and don't plan on it. I have received pictures from girlfriends but have never forwarded them on to other friends after the breakup, I wouldn't want them to do that to me. All in all as long as the participants are old enough and it stays with the people that were intended to have it, I think it is fine.

how about deleting them??? :think: