Liberals want to "lose the war"

Wobbie

I really should know better....posting in the MT always gets me uptight....but I just heard O'Reilly say something that really gets my blood boiling. Billo says "Liberals want us to lose the war." He says, to know this, "you have to get inside their heads"....as he he and his cohorts have this special power.

No, Bill, we don't. Speaking for myself, I just don't think we can win this "war on terror." We started off by invading and occupying a country that had nothing to do with 9-11....we are trying to "win hearts and minds"....trouble is, we're dealing with zealots and every civilian casualty (whether a mistake or an atrocity) turns more hearts and minds against us than it wins.

O'Reilly had a couple of blonde bimbos on with him, one who kept screaming "this is war!!!" when Alan Colmes was questioning some of the things we are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan. Like this woman has any idea of what war is like. And even though we're in an unconventional "war," we can't always let the end (killing "insurgents") justify the means. Liberals (I hate that word) like me just don't think you can kill an idealogy by killing people. Do these people think that one day we'll get every last one of them and the threat wil go "POOF!"? Even though the Germans and Japanese were commiting unthinkable atrocities in WWII, at least there was a central authority who could (and did) say "OK, we're done, you win." Who, exactly, is going to let us know when this "war on terror" is done?

Bombings are picking up again in Iraq.....the goverments that we basically set up in Iraq and Afghanistan are corrupt and SUCK. What the hell have we accomplished in the past 8-9 years (besides getting a lot of kids killed and maimed)? No, Bill, I'm not a pinko commie who wants to see the U.S. fall.....I just wish you fear mongerers would admit this is one big fuckup we have gotten ourselves into.

Godfather.

i would like to see us out of that war also but i also think we need to smoke osama B. ..cut the head off the serpent so to speak,not saying we need a war to do that but since we're there our troops could wack him and then everybody goes home

Godfather.

Pepe Silvia

it seems like common sense that an easy way to win hearts and minds would be to not occupy them and randomly kill civilians and yet.....

gimmesometruth27

we are not even at war, we are occupying 2 countries and carrying out missions in iraq, afghanistan, and now pakistan...we are dumping trillions of dollars down the drain while playing in the sand over there. we are drawing down in iraq and as we do that the violence is increasing. we are going to ramp up our troop numbers and go into afghanistan where the government is failing. afghanistan has never had a centralized government, it has been ruled by tribal laws for centuries. there is a reason they call afghanistan "the place where empires go to die", just ask russia..

i do not hope we lose the war. we are not winning the war and we are not winning the peace either so we are embroiled in a quagmire of our own making...

godfather, killing osama is not going to stop anything, he has plenty of people willing to step up and take over once he is gone. its not osama i'm worried about, its the guy after him that might be a little more crazy and less calculating...

we can not win a war against a tactic....and terror is a tactic. this is like waging a war on stupidity...it can't be won...

Starfall

Bill O'Reilly is right. Look what happened to Vietnam. After the Defeatocrats forced a withdrawal of our forces from South VIetnam, everything that the Pentagon said came true. The entirety of Southeast Asia became a Communist bastion when Vietnam started all the dominos falling and Maoism and Marxism became the official religion in Japan, the Philippines, and in Singapore.
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Oh wait, what's that you say? None of that actually happened? Well, excuse me.

Wobbie

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

we are drawing down in iraq and as we do that the violence is increasing. we are going to ramp up our troop numbers and go into afghanistan where the government is failing. afghanistan has never had a centralized government, it has been ruled by tribal laws for centuries. there is a reason they call afghanistan "the place where empires go to die", just ask russia..

another good point. in our arrogance, we're trying to change like, what, 4000 years of history (in both places)?

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

we can not win a war against a tactic....and terror is a tactic. this is like waging a war on stupidity...it can't be won...

nice analogy.

FiveB247x

Humanity as a whole deserves nuclear fallout with no sign of recovery. Extinction pure and simple. Which side of the coin does that fall upon?

Byrnzie

FiveB247x wrote:

Humanity as a whole deserves nuclear fallout with no sign of recovery. Extinction pure and simple. Which side of the coin does that fall upon?

I think you must be a member of the 'People who hate people party'.

Byrnzie

Something that most people forget - Bill O'Reilly included - is that the anti-War movement is run by veterans, just as it was during the Vietnam war.

FiveB247x

That would be putting it politely.

Byrnzie wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

Humanity as a whole deserves nuclear fallout with no sign of recovery. Extinction pure and simple. Which side of the coin does that fall upon?

I think you must be a member of the 'People who hate people party'.

gabers

Byrnzie wrote:

Something that most people forget - Bill O'Reilly included - is that the anti-War movement is run by veterans, just as it was during the Vietnam war.

And the vast majority of the Chickenhawks are not veterans or would ever even dream of joining and even if they were avoided combat (see George W. Bush).

If these facts don't help point out the absurdity of war I don't know what does.

Wobbie

gabers wrote:

And the vast majority of the Chickenhawks are not veterans or would ever even dream of joining and even if they were avoided combat (see George W. Bush).

...one main thing that got me fired up was O'Reilly's bimbo panelist yelling "this is war!!!" Like she would know.

Starfall

Pepe Silvia

gabers wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Something that most people forget - Bill O'Reilly included - is that the anti-War movement is run by veterans, just as it was during the Vietnam war.

And the vast majority of the Chickenhawks are not veterans or would ever even dream of joining and even if they were avoided combat (see George W. Bush).

If these facts don't help point out the absurdity of war I don't know what does.

http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/about ... hawks.html

Dick Cheney – sought graduate school deferment
John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments, to teach business.
Karl Rove: did not serve.
Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
Richard Perle: did not serve.
Douglas Feith: did not serve.
Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
Ari Fleischer: did not serve.
Andrew Card: did not serve.
Ken Adelman: did not serve.


Republican chickenhawks in the Executive & Judicial branches:
Mitt Romney, former governor of Massachusetts, and since presidential candidate: did not serve.
Marc F. Racicot, former Montana governor and attorney general, Bush reelection chairman and former head of the Republican National Committee
Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
Kenneth Starr : sought deferment (for psoriasis).
Bill Bennett : sought graduate school deferment, (too smart to die).
Ted Olson, (Starr's assistant, and since Solictor General)


Republican chickenhawks in the U.S. Senate:
Mitch McConnell, the current Republican leader in the U.S. Senate: did not serve.
Bill Frist,, the former Republican leader in the U.S. Senate: did not serve.
Trent Lott, the former Republican leader in the U.S. Senate: avoided the draft, did not serve.
Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee" He defeated tripelegic Democratic war hero Max Cleland by questioning his patriotism

Don Nickles: did not serve.
Rick Santorum: did not serve.
Richard Shelby: did not serve.
Phil Gramm: did not serve.
Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
Jon Kyl: did not serve.
John Engler: did not serve.
William Cohen (who became Sec. of Defense for Clinton): did not serve.

Republican chickenhawks in the U.S. House :
Newt Gingrich – sought graduate school deferment, (too smart to die).
Majority Leader Dick Armey – avoided the draft, did not serve.
Majority Leader Tom Delay – avoided the draft, did not serve.
Majority Leader John A. Boehner – did not serve.
Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued in NFL for 8 years.

G.O.P. Leader Roy Blunt: did not serve.
Bob Ney: did not serve.
David Dreier: did not serve.
Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
Christopher Cox: did not serve.
Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
John M. McHugh: did not serve.
JC Watts: did not serve.
Vin Weber: did not serve.
Bob Barr: did not serve.
Mark Souder: did not serve.
Walter Jones: did not serve.
Katherine Harris: did not serve. .