Is honesty the best policy

Yellow Ledbelly

I mean with your closest most trusted friends....the folks you lean on the most.
My best friend and I -- I'm a dude and she's a girl -- got in a big fight last night because I told her what I think about the guy she is currently involved with.
She said I should support her and just listen...keeping my "negative thoughts" out of the conversation, but I tried to explain to her that as close as we are, as much as we have shared throughout the years with so much honesty, I feel like I owe it to her to be straight forward. It doesn't mean I love or support her any less, but only that I don't want to see her get mixed up in something that just can't be good in the long run.

I see what she was saying in a way, but me being her most-trusted friend I would like to think that we can be open at all times about all kinds of situations. If it were me getting into a bad situation, I would like to think she wouldn't sit by and blindly support me but maybe that's just me. I don't believe I would be angry at her for trying to steer me in the right direction, but rather touched that she cared enough to talk to me about it.

So, how do you deal with similar things with your closest friends?

Phantom Pain

Did she ask for your opinion or did you just volunteer it ?

Maybe she's defensive because it caught her off guard

Poor Mad Sailor

Always a tricky one, but much better to be open and honest than to keep the truth hidden...sounds as though it could be that there is something else going on under the surface...maybe she has some doubts herself??

As for listening but not saying anything...that would be a 'sounding post' and I really don't think that any of us would really want our nearest and dearest to be that disconnected.

Don't forget that we often feel more able to be argumentative/grumpy with those that we love as we feel safe/secure to do so.

After a cooling off period, it may be a good idea to explore her reaction with her

Yellow Ledbelly

As for me volunteering it....I guess I did but she opened the conversation.
And yes, she most definitely has doubts herself and even said she knows its not right, and that was the point at which I opened up about my thoughts. The thing that hurts me is I see her beating hersself up and thinking something is wrong with her when these douchebags don't treat her right. It's not her I assure you, but she for some reason just doesn't seem to want a nice, truly caring and honest guy and that hurts me for her.
The way I think is that if you only listen to those opinions that are the same as your own -- or reflect what you want to hear -- then you are setting yourself up for trouble.
Maybe I just came on too strong with my opinions, but I love her enough not to sit back and grin even though I know she is going to be hurt. That's the way I look at it.
Perhaps she thinks me not thinking the situation is a good one is some sign that I'm going to think differently of her? Maybe she thinks that means I won't stand by her as firmly as I always have throughout our relationship....which will never happen in a million years. We've come too far...been through too much by each other's side for that to ever happen.

chadwick

sounds like you like her more than just friends.
just sayin...

decides2dream

chadwick wrote:

sounds like you like her more than just friends.
just sayin...

i believe this has come up before....;)


as to 'honesty being the best policy' while is sounds good in theory, i find it absolutely depends on the situation, the people involved and the overall relationship...the 'whys' of speaking the truth; what is the purpose, who does it benefit or hurt, etc. it's rarely a clear-cut yes/no answer imo.

Yellow Ledbelly

chadwick wrote:

sounds like you like her more than just friends.
just sayin...

Fair enough...I'm bound to hear that having as close of a relationship with a female as I do, but she hears the same thing quite often about me...that she likes me...we've talked about it.
We spend massive amounts of time together and one lady recently asked me how many kids we have and how long we've been married. People can't imagine that we don't have something more going on just by being around us when we're together
We just have a very unique relationship I would say and it is a beautiful thing.
So, no, I'm not chasing her, but I love her as much as I love life

pandora

I think because you love her you must be honest. I can't imagine staying quiet if you feel another person may hurt her or is perhaps just unworthy or even if you just don't care for him.
I'm sure because she loves you also this little spat about the fella she is seeing will pass as quickly as it irrupted.
Its important to be honest about the big things in life maybe not "does my butt look big in this?" type thing but important friend things. Thats what loving friends do they look out for each other.
If there is no sexual attraction between the two of you it would be best to always remain the very important friends for life you are because that can be just as precious as lovers.

Yellow Ledbelly

pandora wrote:

I think because you love her you must be honest. I can't imagine staying quiet if you feel another person may hurt her or is perhaps just unworthy or even if you just don't care for him.
I'm sure because she loves you also this little spat about the fella she is seeing will pass as quickly as it irrupted.
Its important to be honest about the big things in life maybe not "does my butt look big in this?" type thing but important friend things. Thats what loving friends do they look out for each other.
If there is no sexual attraction between the two of you it would be best to always remain the very important friends for life you are because that can be just as precious as lovers.

I appreciate that. You summed up how I feel about it better than I could.
And you are right....I never knew how precious a friendship could be until I met that wonderful girl. It will pass quickly I know, but she has a lot on her plate right now aside from the nonsense with that dude and a lot to think about, so maybe last night wasn't the best time to be forthright but it just hit me hard when I realized how truly shaken up she is about the whole deal.
Thanks

pandora

Yellow Ledbelly wrote:

pandora wrote:

I think because you love her you must be honest. I can't imagine staying quiet if you feel another person may hurt her or is perhaps just unworthy or even if you just don't care for him.
I'm sure because she loves you also this little spat about the fella she is seeing will pass as quickly as it irrupted.
Its important to be honest about the big things in life maybe not "does my butt look big in this?" type thing but important friend things. Thats what loving friends do they look out for each other.
If there is no sexual attraction between the two of you it would be best to always remain the very important friends for life you are because that can be just as precious as lovers.

I appreciate that. You summed up how I feel about it better than I could.
And you are right....I never knew how precious a friendship could be until I met that wonderful girl. It will pass quickly I know, but she has a lot on her plate right now aside from the nonsense with that dude and a lot to think about, so maybe last night wasn't the best time to be forthright but it just hit me hard when I realized how truly shaken up she is about the whole deal.
Thanks

Your compassion and understanding for your friend is so very admirable, that really is true love. Whatever happens in her life she will always be fine, she has you.

dcfaithful

Phantom asked a good question -- your opinion...was it volunteered or di she ask for it?

Either way, this is how I think of it: I've read a previous thread about this woman, and it seems you two do have such a strong and unique bond and friendship, in which case I would think that even if she doesn't agree with your opinion, it should still be of worth to her to think about. It is a possibility that she is just getting hostile because she truly likes the guy, and any "glass half-empty" approach from anyone may hit a soft spot for her.

I dunno, if I was you...I'd stick to my guns. Hopefully she's mature enough to not let your opinion ruin the relationship (seems strong enough to endure such things), after all...it is just your opinion and it's her choice regardless of what anybody says to her. You're a damn good friend of hers looking out for her best interest from a perspective that has no emotional attachment to this guy...seems like a point of view I'd like to hear.

dcfaithful

pandora wrote:

Yellow Ledbelly wrote:

pandora wrote:

I think because you love her you must be honest. I can't imagine staying quiet if you feel another person may hurt her or is perhaps just unworthy or even if you just don't care for him.
I'm sure because she loves you also this little spat about the fella she is seeing will pass as quickly as it irrupted.
Its important to be honest about the big things in life maybe not "does my butt look big in this?" type thing but important friend things. Thats what loving friends do they look out for each other.
If there is no sexual attraction between the two of you it would be best to always remain the very important friends for life you are because that can be just as precious as lovers.

I appreciate that. You summed up how I feel about it better than I could.
And you are right....I never knew how precious a friendship could be until I met that wonderful girl. It will pass quickly I know, but she has a lot on her plate right now aside from the nonsense with that dude and a lot to think about, so maybe last night wasn't the best time to be forthright but it just hit me hard when I realized how truly shaken up she is about the whole deal.
Thanks

Your compassion and understanding for your friend is so very admirable, that really is true love. Whatever happens in her life she will always be fine, she has you.

Exactly. I think she should really really consider your opinion based on the fact that you have a sincere love for her, romantic or not.

Yellow Ledbelly

And I as well for I have her.
Thanks again...sometimes I don't feel like such a good person to have around though

justam

Weren't you the young man who a while ago was talking about loving his best friend?

If my memory serves me in this case, then perhaps you can't really be objective about the guy because you would rather she was with you? :geek:

decides2dream

justam wrote:

Weren't you the young man who a while ago was talking about loving his best friend?

If my memory serves me in this case, then perhaps you can't really be objective about the guy because you would rather she was with you? :geek:

and.....










there it is.
:geek:

Yellow Ledbelly

justam wrote:

Weren't you the young man who a while ago was talking about loving his best friend?

If my memory serves me in this case, then perhaps you can't really be objective about the guy because you would rather she was with you? :geek:

No...I did start a thread saying that both she and I were being pressured from all sides about us needing to be together and people's inability to see that we are just fine as we are. My question was were we being stupid for not exploring the possibility of there being something more to our relationship because we had really become a hot topic for our friends and certain folks seemed deadset on us being together...
Naturally everyone assumes the guy in such a friendship is out for something more, which I understand, but please don't assume to know my intentions or my feelings for my friend. (Not necessarily you I am addressing, Justam)

Sian-of-the-dead

I'm always honest with people... if my opinion is asked for.

Only once have I told someone my opinion without it being asked for and that was because their children were being hugely affected. It possibly wasn't the best policy as it ended in huge row but I still don't regret it. To be honest, it started to show the person's true selfish colours to me and I saw them for what they were. We don't speak anymore.

Recently I have had a run in with another friend who DID ask for my opinion and didn't like it when I gave it. Ironic really as that group of friends they're from all know that if you want a straight up honest opinion then you ask me. Things are ok between my friend and I now, but again, I don't regret any of it. Being asked for my opinion led to some choice words on both sides and things came out that needed to.

I'm one of those people, I'll be 100% honest with you if it's asked for. Too many people forget that if you don't want to hear the answer, you shouldn't ask the question...

Thoughts_Arrive

Did she hit your car with a golf club?

mysticweed

Yellow Ledbelly wrote:

justam wrote:

Weren't you the young man who a while ago was talking about loving his best friend?

If my memory serves me in this case, then perhaps you can't really be objective about the guy because you would rather she was with you? :geek:

No...I did start a thread saying that both she and I were being pressured from all sides about us needing to be together and people's inability to see that we are just fine as we are. My question was were we being stupid for not exploring the possibility of there being something more to our relationship because we had really become a hot topic for our friends and certain folks seemed deadset on us being together...
Naturally everyone assumes the guy in such a friendship is out for something more, which I understand, but please don't assume to know my intentions or my feelings for my friend. (Not necessarily you I am addressing, Justam)

I married my best friend 15 years ago. I have always believed that good (marriage type) relationships begin with friendship. Should you explore? No? Would you then deny yourself? and her? She's with a jerk and you want to protect her. Is it her pattern to fall for jerks? If so, becoming more than friends may need to wait or may never happen since you seem to NOT be one. If this guy is her first jerk, it may be time to step up!
IMO
AFW
peace

the wolf

decides2dream wrote:

as to 'honesty being the best policy' while is sounds good in theory, i find it absolutely depends on the situation, the people involved and the overall relationship...the 'whys' of speaking the truth; what is the purpose, who does it benefit or hurt, etc. it's rarely a clear-cut yes/no answer imo.

I agree 100%.

Up until the last few months or so, I would have said without a doubt that honesty is the best policy.

Now? Not so much. :?

Ayedavanita

I think it's best to be up front and honest if you aren't a coward. If I need to say something I usually do, in the nicest possible way I can. I don't hide things from people or FOR anyone, you get the REAL me. If I have a problem, I'll come to you with it and try to get it worked out. I've learned quite a lot in the past few months about the type of people that ACT like a friend to you but hide things, lie and go behind your back. Shady isn't an attractive color and neither is jealousy or desperation, lol.

Starfall

If I let a friend commit something I know would be disastrous or hurtful, and said nothing... I wouldn't be a real friend.

prism

Starfall wrote:

If I let a friend commit something I know would be disastrous or hurtful, and said nothing... I wouldn't be a real friend.

exactly...even if your friend doesn't want to hear it, the truth is still better than having to later see them struggle out from underneath a twisted pile of wreckage all fucked up and hurt

CHANGEinWAVES

if they ask for my opinion they will get the complete honest truth from me.... my friends know better than to ask me a question that they may not want to hear the REAL answer to.

my mom calls me "brutally honest" and says I should be nicer :?

dasvidana

I think if she asked for your opinion, then you owe her the truth as you see it. If she didn't and was just venting/discussing it with you, then, you should use motivational interviewing techniques to get her to figure it out for herself. If you google motivational interviewing, you will see what you need to do. Basically reflect back to her what you think she's saying so she hears it in her own words. Very good techniques when working with people who know that they need to make a change but can't seem to do it.

Ayedavanita

prism wrote:

Starfall wrote:

If I let a friend commit something I know would be disastrous or hurtful, and said nothing... I wouldn't be a real friend.

exactly...even if your friend doesn't want to hear it, the truth is still better than having to later see them struggle out from underneath a twisted pile of wreckage all fucked up and hurt

prism, it's been AGES! How are you?

_

I think there's a difference between being honest and what you're talking about. Being honest means when you say something, you tell the truth; it doesn't necessarily mean you always have to say something. (Though I think it is dishonest to withhold information when doing so would be misleading.) I'm sure if she had asked for your opinion, she would have appreciated your honesty. But it doesn't sound like she wanted your opinion at that time and in that way.

Sometimes there's a fine line between being "honest" and being (or being perceived as) argumentative and unsupportive. Because you're her best friend, she probably most wants to feel like you support her and you're always on her side. There are different ways to do this at different times; one of them is to tell her when you think she's doing something harmful to herself and one of them is to trust her judgement. But, when you don't trust her judgement, you have to say it at the right time and in the right way. I'm sure there are times when she needs your input and times when she just needs a sounding board and your understanding, which would be hard to feel if she feels like you're attacking her, arguing with her, or questioning her judgement.

Plus, there's that stereotype that men want to try to solve women's "problems" when the women just want to be understood. I'm not saying that's what's happening in your case, but maybe she's experienced it (from you or others) and is therefore more sensitive about it.

Ultimately, I guess you have to decide how important this perceived lack of judgement on her part is and whether it's worth the damage it could do to your friendship. You have to pick your battles, ya know? Of course, I'll bet this will all blow over soon. Good luck. (And sorry for the long post; it's late and I'm thinking out loud.)

Jo

Is honesty the best policy?
YEP!

I have always lived my life believing that there is always someone watching everything I do, therefore there are no secrets.

How refreshing is that?

I've fucked up plenty of times but not through being dishonest, and so I tell the truth and suffer the consiquences......( < how do you spell that?)

I'm looking forwrd to the next doosey.

** Runs skipping through roses while dodging the thorns **

Ayedavanita

Jo wrote:

Is honesty the best policy?
YEP!

I have always lived my life believing that there is always someone watching everything I do, therefore there are no secrets.

How refreshing is that?

I've fucked up plenty of times but not through being dishonest, and so I tell the truth and suffer the consiquences......( < how do you spell that?)

I'm looking forwrd to the next doosey.

** Runs skipping through roses while dodging the thorns **

You said it best! I too have made mistakes but I am also willing to suffer whatever consequences there may be. It is very refreshing to be proud of who I am and that I do not need to mislead anyone or act like something or someone I am not. With me, you get what you get so don't throw a fit.
Love your quote too!!!

Yellow Ledbelly

Just to update:
The spat, fuss argument or whatever it was we had the other night has not been mentioned again and we have been together both nights since. She tends to move forward from things like that with no further mention of it. While I obviously did make her jump on the defensive and probably wasn't nearly as tactful as I should have been at the time, I think my words sank in.
When she got to the house after work yesterday she told me she was done with the guy too. I believe that after she really thought about what I was saying and looked at it from the standpoint of me caring enough to express my true thoughts even if she was to get pissed at me that maybe she saw it more through the eyes of someone like me who she know loves her and only wants whats best for her.
Thing is...her sister had met this guy and thought he was great but her sister also did not get the whole story about him. Her sister would go absolutely gone banannas if she knew

Yellow Ledbelly

Starfall wrote:

If I let a friend commit something I know would be disastrous or hurtful, and said nothing... I wouldn't be a real friend.

Based on past experience this is how I feel about it....especially with my closest friends.
Another girl friend of mine -- friends since the second grade and I am now the godfather of her first born -- got engaged to a useless dude when we were in college and he and I became fairly tight. Well, I knew he was no good but held my tongue due to not wanting to make her mad.
Well, he cheated and the marriage never happened. In the aftermath, it somehow came out that I had serious doubts about him and she THANKED me for not saying anything. That didn't sit well with me at all even though she seemed to feel like I had done the right thing in keeping my mouth shut and I later told her that.
The way I looked at that situation was...what if she had not caught onto him? What if they had gotten married and then it happened? While it would have been her decision and her life, it left a very bad taste in my mouth to think that I didn't share with her what I knew about the guy.
It made me feel like a very shitty friend actually