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What happened to the pop of the snare drum?

corduroykellycorduroykelly Posts: 668
edited April 2010 in The Porch
Me and my friend were talking last night about Pearl Jam albums of the 90's and how the drums seem louder and more clear the snare drum had an incredible pop to it and now it seems to have gone on some recent albums away anyone else notice this?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Brisk.Brisk. Posts: 11,557
    Well i have made various posts and threads saying Matt should bring back his 2000 Ayotte kit (think he used it for Yield too?) but it sounds FUCKING amazing! This Yamaha kit is a pile of trash. At least for 09/10 he made his snare a lot more like the Ayotte.
  • corduroykellycorduroykelly Posts: 668
    Brisk. wrote:
    Well i have made various posts and threads saying Matt should bring back his 2000 Ayotte kit (think he used it for Yield too?) but it sounds FUCKING amazing! This Yamaha kit is a pile of trash. At least for 09/10 he made his snare a lot more like the Ayotte.

    Well Jack Irons was on Yield but yea the drums Matt Cameron uses well the snare does not sound like powerful 90's Pearl Jam snare.
  • Brisk.Brisk. Posts: 11,557
    corduroykelly wrote:
    Brisk. wrote:
    Well i have made various posts and threads saying Matt should bring back his 2000 Ayotte kit (think he used it for Yield too?) but it sounds FUCKING amazing! This Yamaha kit is a pile of trash. At least for 09/10 he made his snare a lot more like the Ayotte.

    Well Jack Irons was on Yield but yea the drums Matt Cameron uses well the snare does not sound like powerful 90's Pearl Jam snare.

    Sorry meant Yield tour..
  • corduroykellycorduroykelly Posts: 668
    Brisk. wrote:
    corduroykelly wrote:
    Brisk. wrote:
    Well i have made various posts and threads saying Matt should bring back his 2000 Ayotte kit (think he used it for Yield too?) but it sounds FUCKING amazing! This Yamaha kit is a pile of trash. At least for 09/10 he made his snare a lot more like the Ayotte.

    Well Jack Irons was on Yield but yea the drums Matt Cameron uses well the snare does not sound like powerful 90's Pearl Jam snare.

    Sorry meant Yield tour..

    I hear ya. Your probably a drummer to know what's up with the kits he uses.
  • starmap3333starmap3333 Posts: 3,925
    it's not the kit it's the mix.
  • Rossum20Rossum20 Posts: 910
    im in the camp that places most of the blame on the mix...the sound coming from all members is significantly different from 7 years ago.

    Now, I could understand if Ed's vocals weren't quite as sharp...thats the reality...but Mike's guitar doesn't sound bluesy like it used to...it either sounds too muffled or too "tinny" (for lack of a better word)...you've already mentioned Matt.

    Seems to be some of the gear as well, as you can notice it at a show...but when you're there it hardly takes away from it...however, while london this past year easily makes it into my top 5 shows ive seen (out of 20)...I almost never listen to it. Why? Because shows like Buffalo 03 and 07_03_03 Mansfield II are just too good.


    The bootlegs are a big reason I love this band to the extent I do so I appreciate at least having a decent recording...just a shame they went away from the best systems they had...and it was the first two years they tried it!

    Thank god there were a lot of shows in 2000 and 2003!
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,177
    I feel, not being a drummer, that the drums took up more space earlier on records and live. They had an identity and dared to take up room. Now it seems in many cases like they just exist there in the background...
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • 12345AGNST112345AGNST1 Posts: 4,906
    starmap3333 wrote:
    it's not the kit it's the mix.

    I think that could have alot to do with it. I always ignored that it could be that but it probably is. But even with that said, his snare on the binaural tour was the best one he had, and I think the best snare pj has ever had.
    5/28/06, 6/27/08, 10/28/09, 5/18/10, 5/21/10
    8/7/08, 6/9/09
  • pearljam7pearljam7 Posts: 447
    I think the drums are freaking insane on Backspacer. The producers (BoB esp.) on there past few albums know what they're doing, if you think the snare has no pop, it doesn't for a reason.
    5/4/2006, 5/12/2006, 5/13/2006, 6/1/2006, 6/3/2006, 6/24/2008, 6/25/2008, 6/27/2008, 6/30/2008, 8/4/08, 8/5/08, 8/7/08
  • CraneCrane Posts: 192
    I think the drums are excellent. The last thing you want is the band to go the extreme lengths of albums like St Anger by Metallica or Zeitgeist by Smashing Pumpkins where the drums pops so much it sounds like a damn cow bell
    "The mind is a wonderfull thing to be altered"

    The Point, Dublin 2006
    Bercy, Paris September 11, 2006
    ISS Dome, Dusseldorf, 2007
  • TheVan218TheVan218 Posts: 302
    Crane wrote:
    I think the drums are excellent. The last thing you want is the band to go the extreme lengths of albums like St Anger by Metallica or Zeitgeist by Smashing Pumpkins where the drums pops so much it sounds like a damn cow bell

    I've always compared it to hitting on the bottom of a metal trash can.
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,425
    Crane wrote:
    I think the drums are excellent. The last thing you want is the band to go the extreme lengths of albums like St Anger by Metallica or Zeitgeist by Smashing Pumpkins where the drums pops so much it sounds like a damn cow bell

    Say what you will about Zeitgeist, but I think the drums sound fantastic.
  • starmap3333starmap3333 Posts: 3,925
    A lot of producers these days tend to turn the levels up so high that the music sounds like garbage. The purpose for doing this is so that, when you have your music on at a low volume, it sounds like it's loud. The problem is, when you turn it up, it sounds distorted and like shit. Someone mentioned St Anger but DEATH MAGNETIC is THE perfect example of terrible leveling. There was even an online petition to remix it.

    It is all in the engineers hands though... in the studio.... in terms of what sounds like what. Live recording are a totally different animal. You can only get things to sound "so good". Drums are typically (and easily) the toughest to mixdown from a live recording. Cymbals sounds like trash most of the time ;)

    At least Cameron doesn't use a trash can lid (a.k.a. china cymbal)!
  • lockedlocked Posts: 4,038
    Brisk. wrote:
    Well i have made various posts and threads saying Matt should bring back his 2000 Ayotte kit (think he used it for Yield too?) but it sounds FUCKING amazing! This Yamaha kit is a pile of trash. At least for 09/10 he made his snare a lot more like the Ayotte.

    +1
    "This here's a REQUEST!"
    EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
    10/25/13 Hartford
  • lockedlocked Posts: 4,038
    Rossum20 wrote:
    im in the camp that places most of the blame on the mix...the sound coming from all members is significantly different from 7 years ago.

    . Why? Because shows like Buffalo 03 and 07_03_03 Mansfield II are just too good.

    !


    +1

    :ugeek:
    "This here's a REQUEST!"
    EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
    10/25/13 Hartford
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,177
    A lot of producers these days tend to turn the levels up so high that the music sounds like garbage. The purpose for doing this is so that, when you have your music on at a low volume, it sounds like it's loud. The problem is, when you turn it up, it sounds distorted and like shit. Someone mentioned St Anger but DEATH MAGNETIC is THE perfect example of terrible leveling. There was even an online petition to remix it.

    I don't think this has anything to do with the discussion here really. But what you are writing about, brickwaling, has been discussed here alot and good examples of that (maybe brickwalling is a bit harsch, but overcompressing) is Backspacer, TEN(remix) and Avocado. And what I have heard even the Backspacer vinyl which uses a digital source (Same as CD?).
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • starmap3333starmap3333 Posts: 3,925
    no, talking about the sound of the drums and how they're mixed isn't the topic at all. :roll:
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,177
    no, talking about the sound of the drums and how they're mixed isn't the topic at all.

    I meant more discussions about compression, which doesn't seem to be the "problem" with the drum sound. (as people are talking about the mixing and the drum set itself)

    But maybe the boots are overcompressed and that affects the sound of the drums?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Evacuation RulesEvacuation Rules Posts: 2,162
    The sound of the whole band has gone way downhill since 2000. Listen to how much clarity and balls the guitars had in 2000 and how tinny and distant they sound now.
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,177
    Maybe it's Booms organ which blocks out the sound? :P
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSunLikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    i thought Brendan O'brien coming back would solve everything and they would go back to the old clear sound, but BS's production wasnt much better than ST's. maybe its Ed fooling around with pro-tools too much.
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,425
    MrSmith wrote:
    i thought Brendan O'brien coming back would solve everything and they would go back to the old clear sound, but BS's production wasnt much better than ST's. maybe its Ed fooling around with pro-tools too much.

    S/T has the clipping, but BS has clipping and muddiness...I think S/T sounds light years better.
  • Evacuation RulesEvacuation Rules Posts: 2,162
    MrSmith wrote:
    i thought Brendan O'brien coming back would solve everything and they would go back to the old clear sound, but BS's production wasnt much better than ST's.

    I knew it wouldn't because BOB's Springsteen album is considered one of the worst sounding CD's of all time. The days of albums sounding like "Vitalogy" and "No Code" are long gone. I don't think that producers today care what happens to an album in the mastering room, because music isn't mastered for audiophiles anymore. It's "product" for little twerps with IPOD's. That's all record companies care about these days. It has even extended to vinyl - they just take the loud, compressed CD and rip vinyl from that now, instead of doing a new, dynamic mastering from scratch. No regard for sound quality whatsoever. I think it's funny when people talk about how "warm" Backspacer sounds on vinyl. It's a complete and utter fantasy.
  • AyeeeeAyeeee Posts: 80
    Evacuation Rules wrote:
    The sound of the whole band has gone way downhill since 2000. Listen to how much clarity and balls the guitars had in 2000 and how tinny and distant they sound now.

    I TOTALLY agree. Everyone sucks these days tone wise except Jeff, and Stone isn't too bad most of the time. It's probably a good thing though because if they sounded like 98 or 2000 PJ I would spend so much money going to shows it would be ridiculous
    "Believe in lies... to get by..."
  • AyeeeeAyeeee Posts: 80
    Evacuation Rules wrote:
    MrSmith wrote:
    i thought Brendan O'brien coming back would solve everything and they would go back to the old clear sound, but BS's production wasnt much better than ST's.

    I knew it wouldn't because BOB's Springsteen album is considered one of the worst sounding CD's of all time. The days of albums sounding like "Vitalogy" and "No Code" are long gone. I don't think that producers today care what happens to an album in the mastering room, because music isn't mastered for audiophiles anymore. It's "product" for little twerps with IPOD's. That's all record companies care about these days. It has even extended to vinyl - they just take the loud, compressed CD and rip vinyl from that now, instead of doing a new, dynamic mastering from scratch. No regard for sound quality whatsoever. I think it's funny when people talk about how "warm" Backspacer sounds on vinyl. It's a complete and utter fantasy.

    Totally agree with all of this too. The sound quality of BS on vinyl is very sub par, by the time I get to Amongst the Waves I have to flip to side B because the sound quality of that song is so bad.
    "Believe in lies... to get by..."
  • Evacuation RulesEvacuation Rules Posts: 2,162
    Spiritual_Chaos wrote:
    no, talking about the sound of the drums and how they're mixed isn't the topic at all.

    I meant more discussions about compression, which doesn't seem to be the "problem" with the drum sound. (as people are talking about the mixing and the drum set itself)

    But maybe the boots are overcompressed and that affects the sound of the drums?

    I think it's a combination of Matt's drum, the microphone used to record it, the mix and the amount of compression in the mix. Matt's drums used to cut through the mix quite well in 2000, but by 2003 they were lumped in with everything else and sounded dull and not as snappy. This has improved/worsened to various degrees since then. The boots have also gotten progressively louder and more compressed.

    The Europe 2000 boots are not compressed and maximized and they are a marvel to hear in terms of Matt's drumming. Put in any show and crank the volume, and you've got something better than we will probably ever hear again.
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