Cancer survivor refused breast reconstruction

WaveCameCrashin

TriumphantAngel wrote:

scb wrote:

chime wrote:

... and I've known several people who didn't like their ears and have had them pinned back on the NHS ... I don't know if that would be covered by private insurers.

Anecdotal stories don't tell the whole story of a system that supplies health care to over 60 million people. You could also say the NHS saved her life through all the cancer treatment she was given.

Exactly. And we can't say for sure that she would have been given that life-saving cancer treatment under the U.S. system.

Don't forget, prfctlefts, if you're trying to use this as an argument that the NHS is better than our current system (which doesn't work anyway because it's anecdotal), then you have to actually compare the NHS to our current system. Would you rather this woman be alive with no breast reconstruction or possibly dead with no breast reconstruction?

agreed.
I think our system is better than the NHS any day of the week and as far as this lady goes don't be a moron,Of course I would want her to be alive,but at the same time she should be able to get reconsructive surgery. Isnt UHC suppose to cover everybody and evrything. I Thought this was the kind of system all of you wanted.
i hope at the very least, prfctlefts comes back to give you a reply to that question.

WaveCameCrashin

chime wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

PerfectLeft's anecdotal example is a typical tactic used by special interests to argue their point. Finding one example and applying it to an entire system in order to spread fear about something that is unknown. I will offset that anecdotal example (in this case, an example from a foriegn country) with my own anecdotal examples taken from my personal experiences with breast cancer survivors here in the U.S.
And I can tell you that I personally know several breast cancer survivors (being a voluenteer crew member for both the Susan G. Komen 3-Day and Avon 2-Day walks since 2002) who were denied breast reconstructive surgery by their health care providers. As well some survivors who were covered by their providers.
Results... a wash.

Thanks for not being a dick.
The whole point behind this thread was to point out this is where we are heading if we dont repeal this disasterous bill that does nothing but raise premiums,cost people more jobs,force people into medicare,and it's going to make hudge cuts to medicare.


also Im very well aware that people get turned down for whatever the case may be.But at least you have the ablity to make an appeal against the INS company and if they don't cover it then you can sue their asses. But when the gov makes the final decision like the NHS does and did in this case then what ? Your fucked.

No you can also appeal (as the person in the report has) ... and you can also take the NHS trust to court to try to get them forced to give treatment, or you can sue them. The article also says "Dr Zafar Iqbal, of Stoke- on-Trent PCT, said he was unable to comment on individual cases, but stressed they would be reconsidering Mrs Parsons' plight."

that's good to hear... Thank you for correcting me.

chime

prfctlefts wrote:

that's good to hear... Thank you for correcting me.

You're welcome.

In fact a girl (13) had a court battle to STOP the NHS from treating her ... she needed a heart transplant http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 09569.html ... that was a couple of years ago and she has now changed her mind and had a transplant

redrock

The thing is that you can't compare the NHS to what the US will be getting. People will still be dealing with insurances, etc. Not really UHC but a step towards it.

FiveB247x

Let's start dictating policy on the idiotic and irresponsible actions of one person. :roll:

gimmesometruth27

prfctlefts wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

PerfectLeft's anecdotal example is a typical tactic used by special interests to argue their point. Finding one example and applying it to an entire system in order to spread fear about something that is unknown. I will offset that anecdotal example (in this case, an example from a foriegn country) with my own anecdotal examples taken from my personal experiences with breast cancer survivors here in the U.S.
And I can tell you that I personally know several breast cancer survivors (being a voluenteer crew member for both the Susan G. Komen 3-Day and Avon 2-Day walks since 2002) who were denied breast reconstructive surgery by their health care providers. As well some survivors who were covered by their providers.
Results... a wash.

Thanks for not being a dick.
The whole point behind this thread was to point out this is where we are heading if we dont repeal this disasterous bill that does nothing but raise premiums,cost people more jobs,force people into medicare,and it's going to make hudge cuts to medicare.
also Im very well aware that people get turned down for whatever the case may be.But at least you have the ablity to make an appeal against the INS company and if they don't cover it then you can sue their asses. But when the gov makes the final decision like the NHS does and did in this case then what ? Your fucked.

this law will never be repealed. it would take a landslide victory where the gop will gain 66% of both houses of congress, they will all have to vote to repeal it, obama would have to sign the new legislation to repeal it. or he could veto it, and 66% of both houses would have to vote to override the veto. short story, ain't gonna happen...so all of the teabaggers can move on to the next issue that they know nothing about...

_

prfctlefts wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

PerfectLeft's anecdotal example is a typical tactic used by special interests to argue their point. Finding one example and applying it to an entire system in order to spread fear about something that is unknown. I will offset that anecdotal example (in this case, an example from a foriegn country) with my own anecdotal examples taken from my personal experiences with breast cancer survivors here in the U.S.
And I can tell you that I personally know several breast cancer survivors (being a voluenteer crew member for both the Susan G. Komen 3-Day and Avon 2-Day walks since 2002) who were denied breast reconstructive surgery by their health care providers. As well some survivors who were covered by their providers.
Results... a wash.

Thanks for not being a dick.
The whole point behind this thread was to point out this is where we are heading if we dont repeal this disasterous bill that does nothing but raise premiums,cost people more jobs,force people into medicare,and it's going to make hudge cuts to medicare.
also Im very well aware that people get turned down for whatever the case may be.But at least you have the ablity to make an appeal against the INS company and if they don't cover it then you can sue their asses. But when the gov makes the final decision like the NHS does and did in this case then what ? Your fucked.

I think you complain about where we're heading without paying enough attention to where we're coming from. Sure, there are flaws with national healthcare like there are with any system, but it's still an improvement from the status quo. Besides, the NHS is irrelevant at this point because (unfortunately) we do not have a national health system.

Regarding insurance appeals: 1. Do you know for a fact that there's no appeals process for the NHS? 2. The appeals process for private insurance companies is a joke. And who the hell has the resources to sue??

Just this week I was talking to a doctor who had a bunch of necessary treatments for himself denied by his insurance company. He spent YEARS fighting it. He had to hire a lawyer and has so far payed $15,000 for the lawyer fees. I say "so far" because you know what happened next? He had to quit working because of his condition, so he lost his insurance. Thankfully he was able to get on his wife's insurance, but this meant a change to a whole new company and he's had to start the fight all over again. And now they're getting divorced so he's about to be dropped.

The only reasons he's not 100% completely fucked is because a) he had an extra $15,000 (though now he probably doesn't), b) he knows the system better than most people, and c) he happens to be a specialist in the field that deals with his problem! This is what happens to people with considerably more resources than most people have!

This status quo is NOT better than the reform we have passed or the national system we should have enacted.

_

prfctlefts wrote:

scb wrote:

Exactly. And we can't say for sure that she would have been given that life-saving cancer treatment under the U.S. system.

Don't forget, prfctlefts, if you're trying to use this as an argument that the NHS is better than our current system (which doesn't work anyway because it's anecdotal), then you have to actually compare the NHS to our current system. Would you rather this woman be alive with no breast reconstruction or possibly dead with no breast reconstruction?

I think our system is better than the NHS any day of the week and as far as this lady goes don't be a moron,Of course I would want her to be alive,but at the same time she should be able to get reconsructive surgery. Isnt UHC suppose to cover everybody and evrything. I Thought this was the kind of system all of you wanted.

But what part of 'she would be less likely to be alive under our current system than under a national system' are you not understanding? You're just ignoring the whole risk of death and focusing on only the reconstructive surgery. You can't just ignore the death part because it doesn't support your point!

TriumphantAngel

prfctlefts wrote:

TriumphantAngel wrote:

scb wrote:

Exactly. And we can't say for sure that she would have been given that life-saving cancer treatment under the U.S. system.

Don't forget, prfctlefts, if you're trying to use this as an argument that the NHS is better than our current system (which doesn't work anyway because it's anecdotal), then you have to actually compare the NHS to our current system. Would you rather this woman be alive with no breast reconstruction or possibly dead with no breast reconstruction?

agreed.
I think our system is better than the NHS any day of the week and as far as this lady goes don't be a moron,Of course I would want her to be alive,but at the same time she should be able to get reconsructive surgery. Isnt UHC suppose to cover everybody and evrything. I Thought this was the kind of system all of you wanted.
i hope at the very least, prfctlefts comes back to give you a reply to that question.

just highlighting the bits in green to clarify they are not my words which is obvious when you look at my previous posts in this thead. the bits in green are pfctlefts words. he messed it up when quoting.

haffajappa

i don't - and never will - understand the love affair with letting business-minded and money oriented corporations handling your ability to live or die.

it just bewilders me there is so much support for this type of system.

FiveB247x

+1

It's all a good until you become the victim of it.

haffajappa wrote:

i don't - and never will - understand the love affair with letting business-minded and money oriented corporations handling your ability to live or die.

it just bewilders me there is so much support for this type of system.

markin ball

prfctlefts wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

PerfectLeft's anecdotal example is a typical tactic used by special interests to argue their point. Finding one example and applying it to an entire system in order to spread fear about something that is unknown. I will offset that anecdotal example (in this case, an example from a foriegn country) with my own anecdotal examples taken from my personal experiences with breast cancer survivors here in the U.S.
And I can tell you that I personally know several breast cancer survivors (being a voluenteer crew member for both the Susan G. Komen 3-Day and Avon 2-Day walks since 2002) who were denied breast reconstructive surgery by their health care providers. As well some survivors who were covered by their providers.
Results... a wash.

Thanks for not being a dick.
The whole point behind this thread was to point out this is where we are heading if we dont repeal this disasterous bill that does nothing but raise premiums,cost people more jobs,force people into medicare,and it's going to make hudge cuts to medicare.
also Im very well aware that people get turned down for whatever the case may be.But at least you have the ablity to make an appeal against the INS company and if they don't cover it then you can sue their asses. But when the gov makes the final decision like the NHS does and did in this case then what ? Your fucked.

But we don't have universal health care and nobody knows where all this is heading. There are so many things wrong and lame about this bill that I think we should focus on the actual issues instead of ones that may or may not ever exist.