This is why

shadowcastshadowcast Posts: 2,231
edited March 2010 in A Moving Train
we need Health care. I cannot believe people would even side on the insurance companies. What scum bags!!

Insurers Fight Coverage for Kids

Guaranteed health-care coverage for children with pre-existing conditions was one of health-care reform’s provisions that was supposed to activate immediately; however, the insurance companies are saying it ain’t so. The insurance companies are arguing that the law requires them to cover pre-existing conditions only if they choose to cover a child; they say that they retain the right to not offer a child any insurance whatsoever, at least until 2014 when new legal requirements will kick in. “If you have a sick kid, the individual insurance market will continue to be a scary place,” says one health-care expert.

Read it at The New York Times
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    how the fuck do they even sleep at night knowing they spend their day coming up with reasons to not give a kid health care?
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • release23420release23420 Posts: 1,176
    maybe if all did this stop giving a fuck about the money an give shit about our fellow humans, we might live longer better an happier as humans,, an i mean this world wide,, :mrgreen::mrgreen:
  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    by the way, here's the link to the story

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/29/healt ... th.html?hp
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Wait a minute, though.

    Why are the insurance companies to blame? This wouldn't be an issue if the Doctors just treated children for free. Let's blame the doctors.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    know1 wrote:
    Wait a minute, though.

    Why are the insurance companies to blame? This wouldn't be an issue if the Doctors just treated children for free. Let's blame the doctors.

    Are you serious?
  • Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    scb wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    Wait a minute, though.

    Why are the insurance companies to blame? This wouldn't be an issue if the Doctors just treated children for free. Let's blame the doctors.

    Are you serious?


    clearly it's the doctor's who are the problem i mean compare how much the average family doctor makes, not counting their school debt, with the top 5 insurance companies making over $12 billion last year and it is painfully obvious to anyone the poor health insurance companies are just getting a bad rap.... :roll:
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • StarfallStarfall Posts: 548
    scb wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    Wait a minute, though.

    Why are the insurance companies to blame? This wouldn't be an issue if the Doctors just treated children for free. Let's blame the doctors.

    Are you serious?


    clearly it's the doctor's who are the problem i mean compare how much the average family doctor makes, not counting their school debt, with the top 5 insurance companies making over $12 billion last year and it is painfully obvious to anyone the poor health insurance companies are just getting a bad rap.... :roll:

    I'm interested in finding out what know1 does for a living, and whether he would consent to performing his work for free also. :mrgreen:
    "It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
  • otterotter Posts: 769
    shadowcast wrote:
    we need Health care. I cannot believe people would even side on the insurance companies. What scum bags!!

    I agree! Anyone who would make it the law to require people to buy from insurance companies are scum bags!
    I found my place......and it's alright
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    know1 wrote:
    Wait a minute, though.

    Why are the insurance companies to blame? This wouldn't be an issue if the Doctors just treated children for free. Let's blame the doctors.
    big difference, doctors are not denying care, insurance companies are. you try telling a doctor with $200 grand in student loans and another $30 grand a year in liability insurance premiums that he has to treat people and do his job for free...assume all of the liability risk without compensation...screw that...if you are going to blame the doctors then why not blame the learning centers and universities and medical schools and residency programs for costing so much...

    its a neverending cycle of blame. insurance companies are making billions by not providing a service and dropping people. its abundently clear to me that they are the ones to blame.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    know1 wrote:
    Wait a minute, though.

    Why are the insurance companies to blame? This wouldn't be an issue if the Doctors just treated children for free. Let's blame the doctors.
    big difference, doctors are not denying care, insurance companies are. you try telling a doctor with $200 grand in student loans and another $30 grand a year in liability insurance premiums that he has to treat people and do his job for free...assume all of the liability risk without compensation...screw that...if you are going to blame the doctors then why not blame the learning centers and universities and medical schools and residency programs for costing so much...

    its a neverending cycle of blame. insurance companies are making billions by not providing a service and dropping people. its abundently clear to me that they are the ones to blame.

    (I'm only trying to make a point here and trying to make people see there are more than 2 sides to things.)

    But...if a doctor refuses to give care due to the patient not being able to pay isn't that basically the same thing as the insurance company denying coverage?

    Believe me, I think health insurance is as big of a scam as the next person, but the answer to that is not to force the public to rely on them more than they already do. It should be for the public to find ways to rely on them less.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    know1 wrote:
    Wait a minute, though.

    Why are the insurance companies to blame? This wouldn't be an issue if the Doctors just treated children for free. Let's blame the doctors.
    big difference, doctors are not denying care, insurance companies are. you try telling a doctor with $200 grand in student loans and another $30 grand a year in liability insurance premiums that he has to treat people and do his job for free...assume all of the liability risk without compensation...screw that...if you are going to blame the doctors then why not blame the learning centers and universities and medical schools and residency programs for costing so much...

    its a neverending cycle of blame. insurance companies are making billions by not providing a service and dropping people. its abundently clear to me that they are the ones to blame.

    I don't see that big of a difference between that and what the insurance companies are doing by not covering some people. Insurance is a business, like it or not, and I don't think the answer is to force them to cover people that they do not want to cover. The only thing that is going to do is force them to raise rates elsewhere to make up for it.

    And for the record, the insurance companies do not make billions by not providing a service and dropping people. They do it by actually providing the service.

    What I really, really, really do not understand is why people can not see that it's our reliance on the insurance companies and the government that has gotten us into this mess. The solution can not be to rely on them more. It must be to rely on them less.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    What if we made it illegal for doctors to charge patients who are under age 18?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    know1 wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    Wait a minute, though.

    Why are the insurance companies to blame? This wouldn't be an issue if the Doctors just treated children for free. Let's blame the doctors.
    big difference, doctors are not denying care, insurance companies are. you try telling a doctor with $200 grand in student loans and another $30 grand a year in liability insurance premiums that he has to treat people and do his job for free...assume all of the liability risk without compensation...screw that...if you are going to blame the doctors then why not blame the learning centers and universities and medical schools and residency programs for costing so much...

    its a neverending cycle of blame. insurance companies are making billions by not providing a service and dropping people. its abundently clear to me that they are the ones to blame.

    (I'm only trying to make a point here and trying to make people see there are more than 2 sides to things.)

    But...if a doctor refuses to give care due to the patient not being able to pay isn't that basically the same thing as the insurance company denying coverage?

    Believe me, I think health insurance is as big of a scam as the next person, but the answer to that is not to force the public to rely on them more than they already do. It should be for the public to find ways to rely on them less.
    its pretty clear cut to me that we need universal single payer. nothing is ever going to convince me otherwise. i work in healthcare and i see insurance companies deny medications, physical theerapy, certain therapeutic modalities, certain office procedures, and medical equipment like crutches and walking boots on a daily basis. blue cross in the worst. they deny all boots and braces as a matter of policy. then i have to jump through all the hoops of getting letters of medical necessity and all of that crap only to have them deny the claim a second time. why will healthlink, aetna, medicare, and cigna and others all pay for the medical equipment yet blue cross denies it and passes that cost onto the people that pay their premiums? insurance companies are the most limiting factor in medicine today.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    know1 wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    Wait a minute, though.

    Why are the insurance companies to blame? This wouldn't be an issue if the Doctors just treated children for free. Let's blame the doctors.
    big difference, doctors are not denying care, insurance companies are. you try telling a doctor with $200 grand in student loans and another $30 grand a year in liability insurance premiums that he has to treat people and do his job for free...assume all of the liability risk without compensation...screw that...if you are going to blame the doctors then why not blame the learning centers and universities and medical schools and residency programs for costing so much...

    its a neverending cycle of blame. insurance companies are making billions by not providing a service and dropping people. its abundently clear to me that they are the ones to blame.

    (I'm only trying to make a point here and trying to make people see there are more than 2 sides to things.)

    But...if a doctor refuses to give care due to the patient not being able to pay isn't that basically the same thing as the insurance company denying coverage?

    Believe me, I think health insurance is as big of a scam as the next person, but the answer to that is not to force the public to rely on them more than they already do. It should be for the public to find ways to rely on them less.

    I agree that insurance is a scam. But your comparison of docs to insurance companies is wrong on so many levels:

    1. Doctors sell care, not coverage. It's the role of the insurance companies, not the doctors, to ensure payment of services. That's why we pay insurance premiums. It makes a lot more sense for the insurance companies to provide the coverage we have paid for than for the docs to provide the care we have not paid for.

    2. If doctors provided their services for free, they would go out of business. If they went out of business, no one would have medical care. Insurance companies, by contrast, are perfectly able to provide the coverage expected of them without going out of business; they only deny it so they can line their own pockets even further.

    3. Doctors generally work for hospital systems and must work within the parameters of those systems. They don't have the ability to just treat patients for free on a whim.

    a. There is more to medical billing than just the physician's fee; there are fees for nursing and administrative staff, for equipment, for malpractice premiums, for rent, etc. Even if a doc could donate his/her services, they can't tell patients they don't have to pay all the hospital fees that go along with them.

    b. Docs who step outside the system to see patients are no longer covered by the malpractice insurance they have through that system. There's no possible way - logistically or financially - that they could get a separate malpractice policy every time they came across a patient for whom they wanted to provide free care.

    c. Free care must be provided in a fair way. There are laws/policies (here, at least) against providing free or discounted services to one patient and not to all others.

    4. Doctors and hospitals frequently already do provide medical care at no charge for patients who aren't otherwise covered. Here, there is a huge program for people who are broke but don't qualify for Medicaid. They are not charged for their care.

    5. Doctors are forbidden from denying lifesaving care from people who are not able to pay. Insurance companies, on the other hand, deny coverage of lifesaving care all the time.

    It's really just not a valid comparison. And I'm not sure how you thought it would prove your point.
  • brandon10brandon10 Posts: 1,114
    otter wrote:
    shadowcast wrote:
    we need Health care. I cannot believe people would even side on the insurance companies. What scum bags!!

    I agree! Anyone who would make it the law to require people to buy from insurance companies are scum bags!


    So you agree we need universal health care?
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