This country needs a New New Deal

musicismylife78

Why do you think this hasnt come about? I am not in the know politically, and dont read the papers, but I dont get the sense any politician, or any movement of people in general is pushing for a New Deal style form of programs and jobs and what not. Is this an accurate assessment and if so, why the lack of

You know, I understand the need to overhaul and change the health care system, but its another example of the politicians, being clueless about the public wants. And if health care really is on peoples minds, more so than the economy, I find that distressing as well.

I think one of the many things Obama will be considered a failure reguarding, is the fact, one of his first actions as president wasnt to create a New New Deal, one for 2009, or 2010, whatever. The New Deal obviously was beneficial, and is a very important act and policy decision. I am gobsmacked as to why Obama didnt do anything about it then, and why he is doing squat now.

Imagine: Obama comes into office, act one, he brings all troops home, ends the war. Act 2-he creates a New New Deal. He forms maybe 20, 30 different organizations or programs, modeled after the TVA, the WPA, AAA, and so on, but updated and modernized for the modern worker in 2010. Imagine, putting billions, tens of billions to trying to help the millions of people who are struggling right now. I cant find even a basic menial job right now, and I know there are many folks worse off than I am. Millions.

So, the questions remain: why has neither party stepped up and demanded a New New Deal, and why is the american public not demanding the same?

FiveB247x

Everyone is too divided. We have a nation of uniformed citizens who are either uncaring, don't want to bother cause they're too comfortable with nonsensical gadgets and gizmos or are split because of party politics. We have a government too concerned about its own power, interest and the business interests to maintain its own threshold. So when is the next new deal? Never.

aerial

musicismylife78 wrote:

Why do you think this hasnt come about? I am not in the know politically, and dont read the papers, but I dont get the sense any politician, or any movement of people in general is pushing for a New Deal style form of programs and jobs and what not. Is this an accurate assessment and if so, why the lack of

You know, I understand the need to overhaul and change the health care system, but its another example of the politicians, being clueless about the public wants. And if health care really is on peoples minds, more so than the economy, I find that distressing as well.

I think one of the many things Obama will be considered a failure reguarding, is the fact, one of his first actions as president wasnt to create a New New Deal, one for 2009, or 2010, whatever. The New Deal obviously was beneficial, and is a very important act and policy decision. I am gobsmacked as to why Obama didnt do anything about it then, and why he is doing squat now.

Imagine: Obama comes into office, act one, he brings all troops home, ends the war. Act 2-he creates a New New Deal. He forms maybe 20, 30 different organizations or programs, modeled after the TVA, the WPA, AAA, and so on, but updated and modernized for the modern worker in 2010. Imagine, putting billions, tens of billions to trying to help the millions of people who are struggling right now. I cant find even a basic menial job right now, and I know there are many folks worse off than I am. Millions.

So, the questions remain: why has neither party stepped up and demanded a New New Deal, and why is the american public not demanding the same?

The American public...the ones that do read the paper and try to keep up with the BS politics in Washington do want this administration to create jobs.....we need people like you to start paying attention and let Washington hear your voice......we can’t do it by our selves....every American needs to become involved in Americas politics.......
You haven’t heard much about it because the socialist in congress along with Obama have purposely been creating chaos with Americas economy.... we have been to busy fighting this illegal bill on health care to move on and try and motivate Congress on what the American people want from there congress....
The more voices we have the easer it is for Congress to hear America

Pepe Silvia

Kucinich had a similar plan when he ran, he wanted to put people back to work upgrading homes and companies to be more sustainable like installing solar panels kinda similar to that parks program

Pepe Silvia

aerial wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

Why do you think this hasnt come about? I am not in the know politically, and dont read the papers, but I dont get the sense any politician, or any movement of people in general is pushing for a New Deal style form of programs and jobs and what not. Is this an accurate assessment and if so, why the lack of

You know, I understand the need to overhaul and change the health care system, but its another example of the politicians, being clueless about the public wants. And if health care really is on peoples minds, more so than the economy, I find that distressing as well.

I think one of the many things Obama will be considered a failure reguarding, is the fact, one of his first actions as president wasnt to create a New New Deal, one for 2009, or 2010, whatever. The New Deal obviously was beneficial, and is a very important act and policy decision. I am gobsmacked as to why Obama didnt do anything about it then, and why he is doing squat now.

Imagine: Obama comes into office, act one, he brings all troops home, ends the war. Act 2-he creates a New New Deal. He forms maybe 20, 30 different organizations or programs, modeled after the TVA, the WPA, AAA, and so on, but updated and modernized for the modern worker in 2010. Imagine, putting billions, tens of billions to trying to help the millions of people who are struggling right now. I cant find even a basic menial job right now, and I know there are many folks worse off than I am. Millions.

So, the questions remain: why has neither party stepped up and demanded a New New Deal, and why is the american public not demanding the same?

The American public...the ones that do read the paper and try to keep up with the BS politics in Washington do want this administration to create jobs.....we need people like you to start paying attention and let Washington hear your voice......we can’t do it by our selves....every American needs to become involved in Americas politics.......
You haven’t heard much about it because the socialist in congress along with Obama have purposely been creating chaos with Americas economy.... we have been to busy fighting this illegal bill on health care to move on and try and motivate Congress on what the American people want from there congress....
The more voices we have the easer it is for Congress to hear America

i'm pretty sure the economy was in chaos before Obama was elected...

aerial

Pepe Silvia wrote:

aerial wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

Why do you think this hasnt come about? I am not in the know politically, and dont read the papers, but I dont get the sense any politician, or any movement of people in general is pushing for a New Deal style form of programs and jobs and what not. Is this an accurate assessment and if so, why the lack of

You know, I understand the need to overhaul and change the health care system, but its another example of the politicians, being clueless about the public wants. And if health care really is on peoples minds, more so than the economy, I find that distressing as well.

I think one of the many things Obama will be considered a failure reguarding, is the fact, one of his first actions as president wasnt to create a New New Deal, one for 2009, or 2010, whatever. The New Deal obviously was beneficial, and is a very important act and policy decision. I am gobsmacked as to why Obama didnt do anything about it then, and why he is doing squat now.

Imagine: Obama comes into office, act one, he brings all troops home, ends the war. Act 2-he creates a New New Deal. He forms maybe 20, 30 different organizations or programs, modeled after the TVA, the WPA, AAA, and so on, but updated and modernized for the modern worker in 2010. Imagine, putting billions, tens of billions to trying to help the millions of people who are struggling right now. I cant find even a basic menial job right now, and I know there are many folks worse off than I am. Millions.

So, the questions remain: why has neither party stepped up and demanded a New New Deal, and why is the american public not demanding the same?

The American public...the ones that do read the paper and try to keep up with the BS politics in Washington do want this administration to create jobs.....we need people like you to start paying attention and let Washington hear your voice......we can’t do it by our selves....every American needs to become involved in Americas politics.......
You haven’t heard much about it because the socialist in congress along with Obama have purposely been creating chaos with Americas economy.... we have been to busy fighting this illegal bill on health care to move on and try and motivate Congress on what the American people want from there congress....
The more voices we have the easer it is for Congress to hear America

i'm pretty sure the economy was in chaos before Obama was elected...

He has done nothing to change it for the better....was my point.....now we are in more trouble with this Health care bill....I don't see it helping anything

Cliffy6745

aerial wrote:

He has done nothing to change it for the better....was my point.....now we are in more trouble with this Health care bill....I don't see it helping anything

Yes, this country is completely fucked. I mean we are only going to have a healthier country and a health care system, that according to the CBO will reduce the deficit.

Not to mention, when I woke up this morning my neighborhood looked completely different. Somehow South Philly turned into Soviet Russia overnight.

FiveB247x

Well that's not exactly true. With the bank bailouts and other measures the administration has taken, we don't know if it turned an awful situation into a slightly better one or vice versa. Even the most outspoken of economists who have particular opinions and leanings, all say we don't and won't know the full ramifications til a much later date in time when we can study the figures and facts. So to assume or jump to such a strong opinion about this matter now, isn't exactly fair or level.

aerial wrote:

He has done nothing to change it for the better....was my point.....now we are in more trouble with this Health care bill....I don't see it helping anything

slightofjeff

Parts of the old New Deal are about to bankrupt us. That could be one reason.

Pepe Silvia

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Not to mention, when I woke up this morning my neighborhood looked completely different. Somehow South Philly turned into Soviet Russia overnight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1_-TlqdIvM

FiveB247x

Well perhaps, but isn't that more a failure of fiscal responsibility compared to actual program failure?

slightofjeff wrote:

Parts of the old New Deal are about to bankrupt us. That could be one reason.

slightofjeff

FiveB247x wrote:

Well perhaps, but isn't that more a failure of fiscal responsibility compared to actual program failure?

slightofjeff wrote:

Parts of the old New Deal are about to bankrupt us. That could be one reason.

Perhaps. But I've given up on "fiscal responsibility." Ain't gonna happen.

But, take Social Security for instance. A New Deal program. A good program, in theory, and for a long time, in practice. But now it needs an overhaul, because it's hemmoraging money ... it will soon be out of money ... it is on the verge of collapse. But can we reform social security? Oh no! We mustn't do that! It's a sacred cow. The elderly are an important voting bloc, and they'll shit if you tinker with their social security.

My problem with these New Deal-era entitlements, some of them anyway, is that once they become ingrained into law, they are impossible to get out ... or even improve.

aerial

FiveB247x wrote:

Well that's not exactly true. With the bank bailouts and other measures the administration has taken, we don't know if it turned an awful situation into a slightly better one or vice versa. Even the most outspoken of economists who have particular opinions and leanings, all say we don't and won't know the full ramifications til a much later date in time when we can study the figures and facts. So to assume or jump to such a strong opinion about this matter now, isn't exactly fair or level.

aerial wrote:

He has done nothing to change it for the better....was my point.....now we are in more trouble with this Health care bill....I don't see it helping anything

Don’t you think they should have had all that worked out before they passed the BS Bill? How does it make sense to pass a bill and say now lets see what it does?

FiveB247x

I don't discount your comments at all... the fact is we are a welfare state which has become way over cap, but still want to maintain the same level of output without changing our input, all the while not making smart, fiscal decisions to let that process occur.. if anything we've under-minded that process.

But on the other end of the spectrum, it's blaming the the program for the program manager's lack of responsibility and accountability. Then add on top of it we have 1/4 of the population who doesn't want reform (sacred cow), 1/4 of the population who wants reform, 1/4 who wants to completely remove all government programs (small government rather than large) and the last 1/4 who don't give a crap what happens. So where's the resolution in that?

The more I see, learn and experience, I wonder if one day everything will just collapse. Whether from an attack, a war, natural disasters, one day society just won't function as we know it.. money will be mere paper with no value and people will have to fend for themselves. And in the end it will be a result of greed, short-sided planning and self-interest. And this will be the new deal... you're on your own - deal with it.

slightofjeff wrote:

Perhaps. But I've given up on "fiscal responsibility." Ain't gonna happen.

But, take Social Security for instance. A New Deal program. A good program, in theory, and for a long time, in practice. But now it needs an overhaul, because it's hemmoraging money ... it will soon be out of money ... it is on the verge of collapse. But can we reform social security? Oh no! We mustn't do that! It's a sacred cow. The elderly are an important voting bloc, and they'll shit if you tinker with their social security.

My problem with these New Deal-era entitlements, some of them anyway, is that once they become ingrained into law, they are impossible to get out ... or even improve.

FiveB247x

Well actually that is impossible. In most things in life we can get results or effects of laws or practices, but economics has so many variables and things that go into it, it is not like anything similar to draw that kind of automatic or even generic conclusion from. Even to this day, almost 100 years after the fact, economics still argue over the cause/effect and positive/negatives of the great depression. Some say FDR helped fix it, others say it was the war and other varying factors...some even say it would have fixed itself had we not done anything.... so as you can see, there's no simple do x and y will happen in economy.

Lastly, in almost any area of government and law, they don't know what the future will bring, all they can do is try and pass things with the knowledge and information they have at that moment. Expecting anything more is mere second-guessing and childs-play.

aerial wrote:

Don’t you think they should have had all that worked out before they passed the BS Bill? How does it make sense to pass a bill and say now lets see what it does?

musicismylife78

personally im tired of the "he was dealt a bad hand" line. i wasnt a fan of bush. i thought he was a jerk and worse. but at a certain point, the country, the presidency becomes your responsibility and not the guy before. obama had a chance to come in and change things. Bush blew it big time. But that shouldnt be obamas excuse or democrats excuse for every policy decision that fails or things that obama isnt acting on. Again, I am out of the political loop, but i cant tell you how many times I have heard friends, relatives, people I know, people i dont know, politicians and talking heads on tv talk about how obama has to "clean up the mess bush made and things will be slow going". thats bs. You gotta do a bit more my friends, than give billions of dollars of bailouts to the corporations and banks, to alleviate the problems in the economy.

Obama, could have come in as I said in my first post, ended the war, shut down gitmo, said we WONT TOLERATE torture ever and set out to bail out everyday workers, who lost their jobs, who cant find a job whatever.
what better way to do that, then OH MY GOD, putting in place programs that put millions of people to work?

This was mentioned in a previous thread, but as a Steinbeck book lover, i love the jobs those characters work at and for. sure it was backbreaking, hard work. tough work. but no jobs like that exist anymore. and its a shame.

I didnt vote with my generation during the 2008 election. All the people my age, on here, PJ, whatever were so amazed someone like Obama came along that they really were blind to what the guy was actually saying or doing. I didnt vote for the guy, and didnt participate in the election 2008 much at all. I didnt see any of obamas major speeches etc... The reason was I felt he was a liar, like all politicians are that when he came to power it would be the new boss same as the old boss.

I love how people always come up with the bs line of "we are out of money run now, we are bankrupt as a nation". While I agree thats self evident, I also think its another cop out just like the "obama was dealt a bad deck" line. The country spends billions on absolute crap. The billions every month that go to fund this immoral and outrageous war in the middle east? Think maybe ending the war would alleviate the problem a little? How about doing something about the Palestinan and Israeli conflict, and to declare once and for all, we dont support either side, that we wont build any more guns for israeli kids to shoot palestinian kids with and vice versa? How about investing in solar, wind, biodiesel for energy purposes? Theres alot that can be done.

It all goes back to my fundamental belief: being a party individual, dem or repub or independant is pointless. we need to fundamentally destroy this country, tear this sucker down, brick by brick. We need to do it cause, there is no politician who cares about us. Why should they? We dont pay for their houses, the corporations they serve do. I am SICK of party politics, of politics in general.

Why cant someone do something to help the millions suffering right now? How goddamn hard is it to do a new new deal?

FiveB247x

Great post and I mostly agree. No one gives a crap about anyone or thing. But here's where I disagree, can't turn to the government to help dismantle themselves, they have no interest or reason to do so. So all the voting, all the partisan nonsense merely adds to the system being in place which leaves us all with nothing.

musicismylife78 wrote:

personally im tired of the "he was dealt a bad hand" line. i wasnt a fan of bush. i thought he was a jerk and worse. but at a certain point, the country, the presidency becomes your responsibility and not the guy before. obama had a chance to come in and change things. Bush blew it big time. But that shouldnt be obamas excuse or democrats excuse for every policy decision that fails or things that obama isnt acting on. Again, I am out of the political loop, but i cant tell you how many times I have heard friends, relatives, people I know, people i dont know, politicians and talking heads on tv talk about how obama has to "clean up the mess bush made and things will be slow going". thats bs. You gotta do a bit more my friends, than give billions of dollars of bailouts to the corporations and banks, to alleviate the problems in the economy.

Obama, could have come in as I said in my first post, ended the war, shut down gitmo, said we WONT TOLERATE torture ever and set out to bail out everyday workers, who lost their jobs, who cant find a job whatever.
what better way to do that, then OH MY GOD, putting in place programs that put millions of people to work?

This was mentioned in a previous thread, but as a Steinbeck book lover, i love the jobs those characters work at and for. sure it was backbreaking, hard work. tough work. but no jobs like that exist anymore. and its a shame.

I didnt vote with my generation during the 2008 election. All the people my age, on here, PJ, whatever were so amazed someone like Obama came along that they really were blind to what the guy was actually saying or doing. I didnt vote for the guy, and didnt participate in the election 2008 much at all. I didnt see any of obamas major speeches etc... The reason was I felt he was a liar, like all politicians are that when he came to power it would be the new boss same as the old boss.

I love how people always come up with the bs line of "we are out of money run now, we are bankrupt as a nation". While I agree thats self evident, I also think its another cop out just like the "obama was dealt a bad deck" line. The country spends billions on absolute crap. The billions every month that go to fund this immoral and outrageous war in the middle east? Think maybe ending the war would alleviate the problem a little? How about doing something about the Palestinan and Israeli conflict, and to declare once and for all, we dont support either side, that we wont build any more guns for israeli kids to shoot palestinian kids with and vice versa? How about investing in solar, wind, biodiesel for energy purposes? Theres alot that can be done.

It all goes back to my fundamental belief: being a party individual, dem or repub or independant is pointless. we need to fundamentally destroy this country, tear this sucker down, brick by brick. We need to do it cause, there is no politician who cares about us. Why should they? We dont pay for their houses, the corporations they serve do. I am SICK of party politics, of politics in general.

Why cant someone do something to help the millions suffering right now? How goddamn hard is it to do a new new deal?

musicismylife78

FiveB247x wrote:

Well that's not exactly true. With the bank bailouts and other measures the administration has taken, we don't know if it turned an awful situation into a slightly better one or vice versa. Even the most outspoken of economists who have particular opinions and leanings, all say we don't and won't know the full ramifications til a much later date in time when we can study the figures and facts. So to assume or jump to such a strong opinion about this matter now, isn't exactly fair or level.

aerial wrote:

He has done nothing to change it for the better....was my point.....now we are in more trouble with this Health care bill....I don't see it helping anything

of course we know the situation has gotten worse. How high does one have to be to believe and think that obama bailing out banks and giving billions to corporations is sound? He should be giving billions to struggling farmers. To people being evicted. to people who cant feed their children. to people who cant find a job.

It makes ZERO sense.

Obama wont feel the brunt of the crisis. none of the politicians will. we do. i do. we all do. you do. how does giving billions to a corporation help any of us?

FiveB247x

Well actually, and perhaps more in theory than practice, the hope is you back the company, which in turn gives jobs, lends money to citizens for homes and goods which in turn raises income and the flow of things. I get your point and know it doesn't necessarily work that way, but conversely, simply pulling the rug out from massive companies which will in turn hurt our economy in massive ways doesn't help either. Basically it's a no win situation.

musicismylife78 wrote:

of course we know the situation has gotten worse. How high does one have to be to believe and think that obama bailing out banks and giving billions to corporations is sound? He should be giving billions to struggling farmers. To people being evicted. to people who cant feed their children. to people who cant find a job.

It makes ZERO sense.

Obama wont feel the brunt of the crisis. none of the politicians will. we do. i do. we all do. you do. how does giving billions to a corporation help any of us?

TravisTheSky

musicismylife78 wrote:

its another example of the politicians, being clueless about the public wants.

Politicians are NOT clueless about the public: Politicians don't care. They don't work for us. They work for the banks and corporations. We keep voting in the same Bankster whores, and nothing changes. We need to vote them all OUT.

I am gobsmacked as to why Obama didnt do anything about it then, and why he is doing squat now.

Barry Bush is never going to do anything other than what his handlers tell him to do.

Starfall

The problem with Obama was that he tried too hard to be like Abraham Lincoln, when he should have been more like FDR.

FDR took on the corruption in the banking and finance industry from the get go. His first act as President was to declare a bank holiday, and closed down the banks so they could be audited and their flagrant misuse of public funds would stop. He created the Works Project Administration and the Civilian Conservation Corps within a couple of weeks, so Americans could get back to work immediately. He signed into law federal protections, such as the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, which insured deposits so people wouldn't lose their money in another bank collapse, and the Glass-Steagall act, which separated investment banks from commercial banks to prevent financiers from doing the kind of reckless speculation that caused the Great Depression.

Moreover, FDR himself although campaigning from the center, governed from the left. (Contrast that with Obama). He famously said of the moneyed class, "I welcome their hatred". When he faced a right wing Supreme Court that tried to block all of his ideas, he never gave up until he got a couple replaced. He had the benefit of a filibuster proof majority in both Houses and used them to push through major reforms. He appointed some brilliant and remarkable people to his cabinet, most notably Frances Perkins, first woman Cabinet member and the architect of Social Security, and took advice from the economist John Maynard Keynes, whose innovative ideas of government being the employer and spender of last resort pulled the country out of the Depression.

Can you imagine how different we would have been as a country if Obama had a lot more guts? We wouldn't have had the bailouts (albeit signed by Bush, Obama could have rallied against it when he was still a candidate), we could have had a more robust stimulus program, we could have had true single payer health care, and we could have had real progressives like Elizabeth Warren and Joseph Stiglitz becoming our generation's Perkins and Keynes - instead we got stuck with Tim Geithner, Lawrence Summers, Ben Bernanke, and the rest of the jokers who caused the economic collapse.

I fear that Obama's reluctance to take on the moneyed interests, the "economic royalists" as FDR put it, will eventually lead to his downfall.