This country needs a New New Deal
musicismylife78
Posts: 6,116
Why do you think this hasnt come about? I am not in the know politically, and dont read the papers, but I dont get the sense any politician, or any movement of people in general is pushing for a New Deal style form of programs and jobs and what not. Is this an accurate assessment and if so, why the lack of
You know, I understand the need to overhaul and change the health care system, but its another example of the politicians, being clueless about the public wants. And if health care really is on peoples minds, more so than the economy, I find that distressing as well.
I think one of the many things Obama will be considered a failure reguarding, is the fact, one of his first actions as president wasnt to create a New New Deal, one for 2009, or 2010, whatever. The New Deal obviously was beneficial, and is a very important act and policy decision. I am gobsmacked as to why Obama didnt do anything about it then, and why he is doing squat now.
Imagine: Obama comes into office, act one, he brings all troops home, ends the war. Act 2-he creates a New New Deal. He forms maybe 20, 30 different organizations or programs, modeled after the TVA, the WPA, AAA, and so on, but updated and modernized for the modern worker in 2010. Imagine, putting billions, tens of billions to trying to help the millions of people who are struggling right now. I cant find even a basic menial job right now, and I know there are many folks worse off than I am. Millions.
So, the questions remain: why has neither party stepped up and demanded a New New Deal, and why is the american public not demanding the same?
You know, I understand the need to overhaul and change the health care system, but its another example of the politicians, being clueless about the public wants. And if health care really is on peoples minds, more so than the economy, I find that distressing as well.
I think one of the many things Obama will be considered a failure reguarding, is the fact, one of his first actions as president wasnt to create a New New Deal, one for 2009, or 2010, whatever. The New Deal obviously was beneficial, and is a very important act and policy decision. I am gobsmacked as to why Obama didnt do anything about it then, and why he is doing squat now.
Imagine: Obama comes into office, act one, he brings all troops home, ends the war. Act 2-he creates a New New Deal. He forms maybe 20, 30 different organizations or programs, modeled after the TVA, the WPA, AAA, and so on, but updated and modernized for the modern worker in 2010. Imagine, putting billions, tens of billions to trying to help the millions of people who are struggling right now. I cant find even a basic menial job right now, and I know there are many folks worse off than I am. Millions.
So, the questions remain: why has neither party stepped up and demanded a New New Deal, and why is the american public not demanding the same?
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Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You haven’t heard much about it because the socialist in congress along with Obama have purposely been creating chaos with Americas economy.... we have been to busy fighting this illegal bill on health care to move on and try and motivate Congress on what the American people want from there congress....
The more voices we have the easer it is for Congress to hear America
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
i'm pretty sure the economy was in chaos before Obama was elected...
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Yes, this country is completely fucked. I mean we are only going to have a healthier country and a health care system, that according to the CBO will reduce the deficit.
Not to mention, when I woke up this morning my neighborhood looked completely different. Somehow South Philly turned into Soviet Russia overnight.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
for the least they could possibly do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1_-TlqdIvM
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Perhaps. But I've given up on "fiscal responsibility." Ain't gonna happen.
But, take Social Security for instance. A New Deal program. A good program, in theory, and for a long time, in practice. But now it needs an overhaul, because it's hemmoraging money ... it will soon be out of money ... it is on the verge of collapse. But can we reform social security? Oh no! We mustn't do that! It's a sacred cow. The elderly are an important voting bloc, and they'll shit if you tinker with their social security.
My problem with these New Deal-era entitlements, some of them anyway, is that once they become ingrained into law, they are impossible to get out ... or even improve.
for the least they could possibly do
But on the other end of the spectrum, it's blaming the the program for the program manager's lack of responsibility and accountability. Then add on top of it we have 1/4 of the population who doesn't want reform (sacred cow), 1/4 of the population who wants reform, 1/4 who wants to completely remove all government programs (small government rather than large) and the last 1/4 who don't give a crap what happens. So where's the resolution in that?
The more I see, learn and experience, I wonder if one day everything will just collapse. Whether from an attack, a war, natural disasters, one day society just won't function as we know it.. money will be mere paper with no value and people will have to fend for themselves. And in the end it will be a result of greed, short-sided planning and self-interest. And this will be the new deal... you're on your own - deal with it.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Lastly, in almost any area of government and law, they don't know what the future will bring, all they can do is try and pass things with the knowledge and information they have at that moment. Expecting anything more is mere second-guessing and childs-play.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Obama, could have come in as I said in my first post, ended the war, shut down gitmo, said we WONT TOLERATE torture ever and set out to bail out everyday workers, who lost their jobs, who cant find a job whatever.
what better way to do that, then OH MY GOD, putting in place programs that put millions of people to work?
This was mentioned in a previous thread, but as a Steinbeck book lover, i love the jobs those characters work at and for. sure it was backbreaking, hard work. tough work. but no jobs like that exist anymore. and its a shame.
I didnt vote with my generation during the 2008 election. All the people my age, on here, PJ, whatever were so amazed someone like Obama came along that they really were blind to what the guy was actually saying or doing. I didnt vote for the guy, and didnt participate in the election 2008 much at all. I didnt see any of obamas major speeches etc... The reason was I felt he was a liar, like all politicians are that when he came to power it would be the new boss same as the old boss.
I love how people always come up with the bs line of "we are out of money run now, we are bankrupt as a nation". While I agree thats self evident, I also think its another cop out just like the "obama was dealt a bad deck" line. The country spends billions on absolute crap. The billions every month that go to fund this immoral and outrageous war in the middle east? Think maybe ending the war would alleviate the problem a little? How about doing something about the Palestinan and Israeli conflict, and to declare once and for all, we dont support either side, that we wont build any more guns for israeli kids to shoot palestinian kids with and vice versa? How about investing in solar, wind, biodiesel for energy purposes? Theres alot that can be done.
It all goes back to my fundamental belief: being a party individual, dem or repub or independant is pointless. we need to fundamentally destroy this country, tear this sucker down, brick by brick. We need to do it cause, there is no politician who cares about us. Why should they? We dont pay for their houses, the corporations they serve do. I am SICK of party politics, of politics in general.
Why cant someone do something to help the millions suffering right now? How goddamn hard is it to do a new new deal?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
of course we know the situation has gotten worse. How high does one have to be to believe and think that obama bailing out banks and giving billions to corporations is sound? He should be giving billions to struggling farmers. To people being evicted. to people who cant feed their children. to people who cant find a job.
It makes ZERO sense.
Obama wont feel the brunt of the crisis. none of the politicians will. we do. i do. we all do. you do. how does giving billions to a corporation help any of us?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Politicians are NOT clueless about the public: Politicians don't care. They don't work for us. They work for the banks and corporations. We keep voting in the same Bankster whores, and nothing changes. We need to vote them all OUT.
Barry Bush is never going to do anything other than what his handlers tell him to do.
FDR took on the corruption in the banking and finance industry from the get go. His first act as President was to declare a bank holiday, and closed down the banks so they could be audited and their flagrant misuse of public funds would stop. He created the Works Project Administration and the Civilian Conservation Corps within a couple of weeks, so Americans could get back to work immediately. He signed into law federal protections, such as the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, which insured deposits so people wouldn't lose their money in another bank collapse, and the Glass-Steagall act, which separated investment banks from commercial banks to prevent financiers from doing the kind of reckless speculation that caused the Great Depression.
Moreover, FDR himself although campaigning from the center, governed from the left. (Contrast that with Obama). He famously said of the moneyed class, "I welcome their hatred". When he faced a right wing Supreme Court that tried to block all of his ideas, he never gave up until he got a couple replaced. He had the benefit of a filibuster proof majority in both Houses and used them to push through major reforms. He appointed some brilliant and remarkable people to his cabinet, most notably Frances Perkins, first woman Cabinet member and the architect of Social Security, and took advice from the economist John Maynard Keynes, whose innovative ideas of government being the employer and spender of last resort pulled the country out of the Depression.
Can you imagine how different we would have been as a country if Obama had a lot more guts? We wouldn't have had the bailouts (albeit signed by Bush, Obama could have rallied against it when he was still a candidate), we could have had a more robust stimulus program, we could have had true single payer health care, and we could have had real progressives like Elizabeth Warren and Joseph Stiglitz becoming our generation's Perkins and Keynes - instead we got stuck with Tim Geithner, Lawrence Summers, Ben Bernanke, and the rest of the jokers who caused the economic collapse.
I fear that Obama's reluctance to take on the moneyed interests, the "economic royalists" as FDR put it, will eventually lead to his downfall.
Yes the banks got a lot of money, ut without these huge businesses keeping people employed and money flowing the governement will not have billions to "give away". It isn't that easy. It would be great if we lived in a world where everyone got all the lollipops they wanted but that is impossible. People cannot and should not expect the gorvernment to be their personal savior. only they can do that. Don't like your situation, there is always a way out. It may not be easy but that is the beauty of the United States. there is always a way out.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
i disagree. if your premise is that big buisness keeps people employed, I not only object to that in a moral sense, but also in a literal sense. this is the worst economy since the great depression. things are awful. So in that sense your premise lacks facts. where are all the jobs? Why cant people get jobs? Why are so many people out of work right now? As i said, I am unemployed, I have a college degree, and I have been unable to find a job in 5 or 6 months now. and you can bet there are millions out there as well, who have similar experiences, in fact I know this is the case. The average time right now it takes to get a job after being unemployed is 8 months. thats a hell of a long time, my friend. If big buisness was helping create jobs, its been doing a worthless job of it for several years now. if that way of thinking were a person, with a job, that person (way of thinking) would have been fired long long ago.
As a socialist communist, I do think the government should provide me and others with something. but on a non political slant, i even think this. I dont think its giving people anything really to create a New New deal. 20 or thirty new programs that put people to work, millions of people.
i disagree. if your premise is that big buisness keeps people employed, I not only object to that in a moral sense, but also in a literal sense. this is the worst economy since the great depression. things are awful. So in that sense your premise lacks facts. where are all the jobs? Why cant people get jobs? Why are so many people out of work right now? As i said, I am unemployed, I have a college degree, and I have been unable to find a job in 5 or 6 months now. and you can bet there are millions out there as well, who have similar experiences, in fact I know this is the case. The average time right now it takes to get a job after being unemployed is 8 months. thats a hell of a long time, my friend. If big buisness was helping create jobs, its been doing a worthless job of it for several years now. if that way of thinking were a person, with a job, that person (way of thinking) would have been fired long long ago.
As a socialist communist, I do think the government should provide me and others with something. but on a non political slant, i even think this. I dont think its giving people anything really to create a New New deal. 20 or thirty new programs that put people to work, millions of people.[/quote]
musicismylife78, I never said communism or socialism, so hopefully you didn't think I was saying that.
for every job the government "creates" there is a job in the private sector that is taken away. Remember that. If the government decides it is going to put wifi hot spots all over the country, and then create a department to do that, sure people who are out of work might get jobs, but a company that has been doing that work now will be out of a job. There is always give and take. Why don't we just pay people to sit on the corner and count something. Why don't we all just give everyone everything? Because if no horrible evil corporation is making money, then there is no money for the government to pay for all these JOBS they are going to CREATE.
Yeah, times are tough for some people, I have been out of work for a while too, not now, but definitely for the better part of a year, I know what it is like to have to scrape by to make it. Unemployed people today don't have the market cornered on suffering...I have been there. But instead of waiting for someone to give me something I decided I needed to do something. Got a job I hated for very little pay and worked my way back into school to get my life going again. Why on earth would I want to pay for someone else who doesn't have the desire to do that?
Someone I don't know in georgia means no more to me than someone I dont know in the uk or ireland or the congo. If we take care of one we should take care of them all...where do we draw the line? You cannot give everyone everything or all you will have is a bunch of little pups who cannot ween of the tit. Don't like your situation, change it. My guess is there are plenty of jobs for you, just not the ones you want. I could be wrong. You could be applying at mcdonalds or chipotle, but I don't think you are. Some times you have to do things you don't want in order to move ahead to something you do. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I did it, I know a lot of people who have had to shovel a lot of shit in order to enjoy there life. I am sorry you are having a tough time finding a job in your field of choice, but that doesn't mean that the government is responsible to get you a job. Times like these require less government not more. but we obviously look at it differently . . .
Good luck with finding a job, hopefully you get on your feet soon. If you do, remember, if you want the government to pay for other people, you may want to over pay your taxes so that can happen, they get enough of my money, I don't want to give them any more.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Huh? When FDR created the WPA and the CCC in his first year, he put millions of Americans to work, and none of them had been employed. So what private sector jobs did the WPA and CCC take away?
Nobody is seriously saying that government should do everything. The government shouldn't be making my truck, or my iPhone, or my TV set. But neither should the government be blanketly labeled as incapable of doing everything right either. There are certain things that belong to all of us - the commons - where the purvey of which should go to government.
After all, government is "We The People", right?
Why do you assume that just because someone gets a job, or a benefit, it's something that's automatically taken away from you? You seem to be of the opinion that everyone that benefits from our social safety nets are lazy, good for nothing slackers, when there's very little evidence of that. Indeed, most people who receive welfare are only there for a short time, and those that get food stamps are getting them to survive. My ex-wife was on Medi-Cal for a short time herself, but not because she wanted to, but because she couldn't earn enough to support herself and her unborn child, and still be in school, and she had no medical insurance.
And you'd be wrong. In dire times, it is precisely government that should be the employer of last resort, the spender of last resort. FDR brought the county back from the Great Depression by using progressive programs like the WPA, and investing on infrastructure and jobs. The libertarian attitude of "I got mine, fuck you" is only going to get us so far. A smart, well run government is a much better servant of the people than one that just sits back and does nothing.
I'd rather live in a society where we all pitch in and help each other, as opposed to a dog-eat-dog, every-man-for-himself society. We've been there far too long - it's time to bring back the WE society, instead of continuing the ME society.
Yeah, the war had nothing to do with coming out of the depression. Explain to me what jobs can be created now? What type of programs are so easily created that the private sector isn't filling right now. this isn't 1930.
and as far as welfare, I think you look at my opinion as if it is unnecessary. I have said it before but i will say it again, I just want people to earn it. there is a big difference. I understand the need for social programs, I just think they go too far. There is not enough "earn it" and far too much GIVE IT. Getting food from the government, then you should put in some work for the government, picking up parks, mowing medians on the interstates, cleaning up graffiti etc.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
you wrote---
Why do you assume that just because someone gets a job, or a benefit, it's something that's automatically taken away from you? You seem to be of the opinion that everyone that benefits from our social safety nets are lazy, good for nothing slackers, when there's very little evidence of that. Indeed, most people who receive welfare are only there for a short time, and those that get food stamps are getting them to survive.
I work with people who use these programs everyday...it isn't a scientific study, but I can tell you from my experience more people take advantage and have the mind set of "what else do I get" than are thankful for what they get and move on. Just go to a liquor store on the first of the month . . . and see what happens.
When they are no longer eligible for services they are not in a better place becuase they have not been taught or pushed in the direction of how to get their own. The idea that "i got mine - so fuck you" is not a libertarian idea. it is just a difference in philosophy. I don't want to live in a place where we don't take care of each other, but we definitely have a differing opinion on how to do that.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
"And you'd be wrong. In dire times, it is precisely government that should be the employer of last resort, the spender of last resort. FDR brought the county back from the Great Depression by using progressive programs like the WPA, and investing on infrastructure and jobs. "
There is no "right" way to run the government, if you look at my last statement you would realize that we differ in philosophy, I do not call you wrong. I could just as easily call you wrong and then state an opinion. Far more went into coming out of the depression than just the government providing some jobs.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
You have no idea what the WPA or the CCC are or what they did, do you?
This may come as a shock to you, but Bill Clinton effectively ended the free ride for welfare back in the mid-90's. You're basically perpetuating a myth.
Besides, how do you expect people to"GIVE IT" in this economy, when there aren't enough jobs to keep people going even for the basic necessities of life? Food stamps use exploded last year, for instance. These are not people who are gaming the system - most of them were middle class a few years ago, until their employment and finances collapsed under the Republican Great Recession.
Give people decent, living wage jobs, and you'll solve your imaginary problem of welfare abuse.