Pearl Jam - The New Reality

Lauri

MrSmith wrote:

if thats the case with you, you might want to question if thats because you just want to like whatever they put out even though you wouldnt be caught dead listening to it if it were by another band.

Here's the problem with this statement though- for me, I don't know if I would like say, Backspacer, if it were another band, but not because I'm trying too hard to like everything PJ does, but because I "get" their music at this point. From the beginning, there have been songs I haven't liked, especially when I first hear them. But I don't know I have learned over the years that what's great about Pearl Jam isn't necessarily obvious. And it just has to sort of come to me. Like even now, I could be listening to No Code or something and a song I never thought all that much about or a song I've sort of gotten sick of will come on and for some reason it will just hit me that I get it now, and I fall back in love with the band. And when I listen to a new PJ album, I just know that I have to have an open mind, because I don't always immediately get what Eddie or Stone or Matt is trying to do, but I kind of have this feel that under the surface, there is definitely something they're trying to do, and most of the time, I will get it either right away or after a while. Or I might get it but not really like it, but I still respect it. You know I never feel like I do when I hear more recent Weezer and I think Rivers is just makig crap music and laughing his way to bank because he knows everyone will worship it just cuz it's Weezer.

And sometimes what I get from Pearl Jam is not necessarily the songs and the concepts themselves, but the way they are delivered. My favorite song on backspacer is Got Some and it's not because it's some innovative amazing song. But I get chills when I just listen to what this band is putting into that song. I feel like EV is really trying to send a message and it's like in your face. That's what I'll always come back to- EV can sing even flow every night for 20 years, and you're still sitting there in row 500 feeling your friend is trying to make an emphatic point at the bar or some professor is trying to explain something to you or a great speaker is addressing the room or something.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

Lauri wrote:

MrSmith wrote:

if thats the case with you, you might want to question if thats because you just want to like whatever they put out even though you wouldnt be caught dead listening to it if it were by another band.

Here's the problem with this statement though- for me, I don't know if I would like say, Backspacer, if it were another band, but not because I'm trying too hard to like everything PJ does, but because I "get" their music at this point. From the beginning, there have been songs I haven't liked, especially when I first hear them. But I don't know I have learned over the years that what's great about Pearl Jam isn't necessarily obvious. And it just has to sort of come to me. Like even now, I could be listening to No Code or something and a song I never thought all that much about or a song I've sort of gotten sick of will come on and for some reason it will just hit me that I get it now, and I fall back in love with the band. And when I listen to a new PJ album, I just know that I have to have an open mind, because I don't always immediately get what Eddie or Stone or Matt is trying to do, but I kind of have this feel that under the surface, there is definitely something they're trying to do, and most of the time, I will get it either right away or after a while. Or I might get it but not really like it, but I still respect it. You know I never feel like I do when I hear more recent Weezer and I think Rivers is just makig crap music and laughing his way to bank because he knows everyone will worship it just cuz it's Weezer.

And sometimes what I get from Pearl Jam is not necessarily the songs and the concepts themselves, but the way they are delivered. My favorite song on backspacer is Got Some and it's not because it's some innovative amazing song. But I get chills when I just listen to what this band is putting into that song. I feel like EV is really trying to send a message and it's like in your face. That's what I'll always come back to- EV can sing even flow every night for 20 years, and you're still sitting there in row 500 feeling your friend is trying to make an emphatic point at the bar or some professor is trying to explain something to you or a great speaker is addressing the room or something.

i know what you're saying about finally getting older songs (like Faithful and Habit for me recently. Faithful is SO GOOD! still rediscovering tunes on their old ones.) but that happens less and less now on the newer ones for me. i think Life Wasted is the only song i feel like i overlooked out of their last few. their songs dont grow on me anymore. too structured and safe sounding for my taste. oh well. diverging musical tastes i guess. they still play the old stuff live more often than anything else, so im good.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Jeanwah wrote:

LikeAnOcean wrote:

I think people are just way too obsessed and have too much time on their hands.

This, 100%.

Not to mention, assuming what EV and the band thinks is fine, but in the end its all just that: an assumption. I have a family, but that certainly doesn't mean that I dropped my ideals the minute I became a mother.

no one said anything about dropping ideals when you become a parent. At least nothing I read. If anything, having a family has strengthened my positions on many things.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

MrSmith wrote:

thats fine, heh, but you just said you like all their albums! what if you didnt like their last two albums (and still dont) and thought Binaural and RA were hit or miss? thats basically me, but the thing is i really REALLY love the ones i like!

im pretty picky, but any band that puts out 5 albums i adore is automatically in godhood status, even if they put out total crap from then on! kinda like being a Harrison Ford fan. after Han Solo, and Indiana, he's set for life!

yes, I DO like all of their albums NOW, but BS has been out for how long now? Seven months? I didn't care that much for Vitalogy or NC for a much longer time than that. So what I'm saying is you still might like BS later on, just not now. And it's also entirely possible you never will. My only point was that not liking some of their music does NOT mean you are not as big a fan as any. I know many big PJ fans that hated everything post-VS until Lost Dogs came out, and were thinking "Jesus, these are the bsides? why weren't THESE the albums??".

psmitty76

Great Post.....I think alot has to do with the band members having families now. I also think physically the years have taken there toll on Eddie.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

Johnny Sitar wrote:

MrSmith wrote:

thats fine, heh, but you just said you like all their albums! what if you didnt like their last two albums (and still dont) and thought Binaural and RA were hit or miss? thats basically me, but the thing is i really REALLY love the ones i like!

im pretty picky, but any band that puts out 5 albums i adore is automatically in godhood status, even if they put out total crap from then on! kinda like being a Harrison Ford fan. after Han Solo, and Indiana, he's set for life!

yes, I DO like all of their albums NOW, but BS has been out for how long now? Seven months? I didn't care that much for Vitalogy or NC for a much longer time than that. So what I'm saying is you still might like BS later on, just not now. And it's also entirely possible you never will. My only point was that not liking some of their music does NOT mean you are not as big a fan as any. I know many big PJ fans that hated everything post-VS until Lost Dogs came out, and were thinking "Jesus, these are the bsides? why weren't THESE the albums??".

it possible i guess, but i highly doubt it. i didnt get Yield or Vitalogy at first, and love them now. but those albums had a depth and purpose to them that the newer ones dont. there is nothing to be discovered here, and they arent meant to be. they are surface level pop songs that have been thoroughly covered by other bands. BS is just a collection of 80s sounding pop songs. even the ones i like are basically just rips of 80s songs and not meant to be very deep. it sounds like they literally went down the list of 80s bands they like and copied them. Ramones? check. U2? check. Dire Straights? check. Devo? check. fucking Meatloaf? check. and so on. im not suddenly going to get Amongst the Waves or The Fixer. there's nothing to get.

BS doesnt bother me that much though. it just sounds like they were playing around in the studio and didnt put much thought into it. im not one to think that every album they put out HAS to be some epic masterpiece. they've earned the right to fuck around a little. maybe its even good for them to get out of that political depression funk they seemed to be in. but if their next album is more of the same, i'll be very dissappointed.

Ledbetterman10

MrSmith wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

MrSmith wrote:

thats fine, heh, but you just said you like all their albums! what if you didnt like their last two albums (and still dont) and thought Binaural and RA were hit or miss? thats basically me, but the thing is i really REALLY love the ones i like!

im pretty picky, but any band that puts out 5 albums i adore is automatically in godhood status, even if they put out total crap from then on! kinda like being a Harrison Ford fan. after Han Solo, and Indiana, he's set for life!

yes, I DO like all of their albums NOW, but BS has been out for how long now? Seven months? I didn't care that much for Vitalogy or NC for a much longer time than that. So what I'm saying is you still might like BS later on, just not now. And it's also entirely possible you never will. My only point was that not liking some of their music does NOT mean you are not as big a fan as any. I know many big PJ fans that hated everything post-VS until Lost Dogs came out, and were thinking "Jesus, these are the bsides? why weren't THESE the albums??".

it possible i guess, but i highly doubt it. i didnt get Yield or Vitalogy at first, and love them now. but those albums had a depth and purpose to them that the newer ones dont. there is nothing to be discovered here, and they arent meant to be. they are surface level pop songs that have been thoroughly covered by other bands for the most part. BS is basically just a collection of 80s sounding pop songs. even the ones i like are basically just rips of 80s songs and not meant to be very deep. it sounds like they literally went down the list of 80s bands they like and copied them. Ramones? check. U2? check. Dire Straights? check. Devo? check. fucking Meatloaf? check. and so on. im not suddenly going to get Amongst the Waves or The Fixer. there's nothing to get.

BS doesnt bother me that much though. it just sounds like they were playing around in the studio and didnt put much thought into it. im not one to think that every album they put out HAS to be some epic masterpiece. they've earned the right to fuck around a little. maybe its even good for them to get out of that political depression funk they seemed to be in. but if their next album is more of the same, i'll be very dissappointed.

I totally agree. And yeah it's not like those of us who dislike Backspacer want to swear off Pearl Jam or anything. But I too hope that this is more of a one-time thing than a new direction.

KingJeremyD

Pearl Jam will always be my favorite band and I will always support them..Via purchasing albums and attending concerts..But, I am not as big as fan as use to be...I loved it when pearl jam stood for something..When the music was the only important thing....Not saying that still don't stand for anythning...The band members have the right to do whatever they want..Which I respect..I can understand each band member is getting older and starting families...

I liked it when pearl jam had the motto sponsored by no one...How many pearl jam members does it take to change a light bulb..None because we aren't going to change..But, those days are long gone now...Still will always support them..Everyone changes..

Jeremy

jwagner

Wow, thanks for such a thoughtful post, one that tells it like it is, not how some people wish it was. I think some PJ fans, and fans of many other beloved bands for that matter, don't realize that as musicians evolve as people, so will their music. Some people can't handle change, but what would life be without it!? Thanks again, really thoughtful and important post...timely too...

KingJeremyD

It was a great post pretty much how it is..

I guess it is hard for me to see the band change...Nothing I can do about it..But, I can still have my opinion on it...But, won't change anything..


Jeremy

Lifted

good post, and a lot of great points.

personally i don't like the new direction of the band. i have no problem with the target deal, or the way they market themselves in general. i think some stuff they are doing in their career now is a little hypocritcal considering what they stood for say 7+ years ago, but it doesn't bother me.

my problem is that they've seemed to make a conscious effort to record albums that are more radio friendly, and that's just not them. if it was them, they'd be huge in the mainstream right now. instead, they are alienating a lot of the hardcore fans and making music that sounds confused to me. it's like they don't know if they want to make a pop record or an alternative record (which is what they were doing until self-titled). the last two albums sounded like a mix of both, and it's just not working for me. but this is just one man's opinion. obviously some fans really like the new stuff, and that's okay too.

Lauri

Crazy4Cords wrote:

Pearl Jam will always be my favorite band and I will always support them..Via purchasing albums and attending concerts..But, I am not as big as fan as use to be...I loved it when pearl jam stood for something..When the music was the only important thing....Not saying that still don't stand for anythning...The band members have the right to do whatever they want..Which I respect..I can understand each band member is getting older and starting families...

I liked it when pearl jam had the motto sponsored by no one...How many pearl jam members does it take to change a light bulb..None because we aren't going to change..But, those days are long gone now...Still will always support them..Everyone changes..

Jeremy

I think Pearl Jam still stands for something, I think they still stand for a lot. And I think the music is still the only important thing. But if they don't work to sell the music, we'd never get to hear it. It's a lot of work and a lot of money and a lot of business strategy that gets that music to us in the first place. And Pearl Jam was signed with Sony almost their entire career. Sony used to do a lot of that work for them, and now they do it themselves. To me, that's them saying the music and getting it out there on their own terms is pretty freaking important. I don't know, I don't think this band has compromised anything. I think they remain one of the most fluid bands that is willing change with the times in both their music and their strategy but never compromising their integrity. I love that they've taken risks with their music and try to make something new with each album, rather than saying "we're a 90s grunge band and always will be." I can almost guarantee that if they had stuck to the one sound and attitude that made them famous in 1991, this board wouldn't even exist and all any of us would have now is an old Alive guy t-shirt in our parents' basements.

Jeanwah

Johnny Sitar wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

LikeAnOcean wrote:

I think people are just way too obsessed and have too much time on their hands.

This, 100%.

Not to mention, assuming what EV and the band thinks is fine, but in the end its all just that: an assumption. I have a family, but that certainly doesn't mean that I dropped my ideals the minute I became a mother.

no one said anything about dropping ideals when you become a parent. At least nothing I read. If anything, having a family has strengthened my positions on many things.

This is just one of many.

psmitty76 wrote:

I think alot has to do with the band members having families now. I also think physically the years have taken there toll on Eddie.

People assume they've changed because they have families. Changed how? From the way they were: idealistic and standing up and speaking out for those ideals. I'd like to point out that just because you start a family, it doesn't automatically change what you believe in. Perhaps EV has become more conservative and mainstream, that's fine. But it's not because he's a father, it's because he's changed, no generalizations necessary.

Fahka

I thought having families made people more angry I know it would me.. im too selfish for kids but at least i know it! this is a good post.. I was wondering why i wasnt as excited as i usually am to see my favorite band on TV but i think its because im still in the early 20's and still have alot of that angst and drive. fact of the matter is , ive always been aware that these guys were 20+ years older than me i just thought for some reason Ved would be that same angry guy wanting to change the world even when he was 80 but im just happy they are still around and i still get a chance to see them.. i feel so bad for people who live in Asia and other places that will literally never get a chance to see them.. i've been blessed to get to see these guys 15 times and they are still the best of whats around.. I appreciate all the hard times they have gotten me through and it's still chicken soup for the soul to see these guys live..

helplessdancer

the only constant in life is change, and, you either run with it with open arms, or you constantly struggle trying to fight it.

me. i'm still here.

suninsomebodyelsesky

I'd like to say "Great Post" because it was well thought out and articulated...but I don't agree at all?

I've been a fan since '91 when I first heard Evenflow at age 18 and maybe b/c I've evolved as they have I don't feel this abandonment some of you are describing...? Although Just Breath isn't my fave either (would have liked Got Some and Force of Nature) listening to the band do it live brought a whole new dimension to the song...as usual! How many bands HAVE YOU EVER KNOWN to be that awesome live??? There are very few. And can you really expect them to go hardcore on SNL? To the guy who said, "they have to do late night shows other than Letterman" - I hope you know this was like Pearl Jam's fourth SNL appearance in twenty ish years...where have you been? And wtf is the big deal with the Target endorsement??? Target gives back 5% of its gross profits to charity...and the disc was only $11.99 there - that's a sell-out?

Personally I love when people say they don't like Pearl Jam anymore because then I don't have to fight with you half ass fans getting on my nerves at the shows. So...bye!

Flagg

Personally I am very happy with the band the direction they have taken. They seem happy and a happy band stays together longer and makes more music together.

This is just an opinion but I think the political stuff from 2000 - 2006 was starting to weigh on them a little and create some tension. Stone even said it was nice to take a break from that and that they could go back to it if they needed/wanted to.

I just think Backspacer reflects where there are at this point in their lives and careers and they themselves are reflecting upon where they have been and where they are now, thankful they are in a good place.

I don't give a shit about Target. If that is what they have to do to get money to record and sell records then so be it. I don't care that they want to be more radio friendly. Can you get more radio friendly than Better Man? Or Black? Or Alive?

As long as they are still making music and touring I am happy. Everyone here knows how I feel about the way they tour nowadays. But I get over it and travel.

I hope they make 5 more records. We should all count ourselves lucky to be such big fans of a band that doesn't seem to want to quit anytime soon.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

for the record i dont give a shit about Target or any of their stances or their changes on those stances. never have never will. all i care about is the music.

apparently having kids and settling down means your taste in music changes to safe and mostly edgeless 80s rock. thank god i dont have kids! but seriously, i dont really care where they are in life but its fine if their lives have changed their music. i guess by liking their old ones better im living in the past, but to me their older albums are far more relevent and closer to the music from newer bands i like, so maybe not. either way im still a fan. besides, its not like they've abandoned their old stuff at shows. if that ever happened i;'d be out in a heartbeat! if Backspacer helps them stay together and keep touring (or at least mini-touring) so be it.

norm

Flagg wrote:

Personally I am very happy with the band the direction they have taken. They seem happy and a happy band stays together longer and makes more music together.

This is just an opinion but I think the political stuff from 2000 - 2006 was starting to weigh on them a little and create some tension. Stone even said it was nice to take a break from that and that they could go back to it if they needed/wanted to.

I just think Backspacer reflects where there are at this point in their lives and careers and they themselves are reflecting upon where they have been and where they are now, thankful they are in a good place.

I don't give a shit about Target. If that is what they have to do to get money to record and sell records then so be it. I don't care that they want to be more radio friendly. Can you get more radio friendly than Better Man? Or Black? Or Alive?

As long as they are still making music and touring I am happy. Everyone here knows how I feel about the way they tour nowadays. But I get over it and travel.

I hope they make 5 more records. We should all count ourselves lucky to be such big fans of a band that doesn't seem to want to quit anytime soon.

this...well said :clap:

Hugh Freaking Dillon

I want to make it perfectly clear that I don't think having families has changed their musical interests. I think it has changed the way they do business. I.E; only on the road two weeks at a time, shorter legs of tours, etc, which has a financial impact on everyone in the band and around the band, so they had to make changes withint their organization to remain consistent.

I'll precede the following point with this: I personally hate when people say "well, they are millionaires, so they don't need the money from touring!".

On that note, I believe they DO have to do things in order to make money. It's all relative. Yes, Ed et al probably have a shitload more money than I do, but they've also got a lifestyle they are used to and expenses that are relative to their current incomes. So I have no problem with them wanting to make money any way that suits them. Think of it this way: how would you feel is someone from the ghetto said "hey, I want to buy your cd, but don't make me pay for it, you already have a house and you don't need that white vinyl Backspacer!". It's all relative.

It has already been well established why they went with Target. They didn't "sell out". There really is no such thing, in my opinion. They went with the music distributor that gave them the most money per cd, is closest to their personal ideals than any other big box, and also allowed their FAN CLUB and indie stores to stock the disc. Do people forget that PJ actually fought for their fan club for this? I think many of us did forget that fact.

I don't find Backspacer to be a mix of 80's pop at all. Why? Because I can pretty much make a total blanket statement here and say I hate everything that ever came out of the 80's (except some of the movies). And I like Backspacer. So there goes that.

However I do agree that they put songs on the album they thought would be successful. Not only from the sound, but Mike said it in black and white in the Spin article.