Carlos Augusto Aumatrie (assassinated)
Juan Carlos Urbano Lugo (assassinated)
Jose Manuel Vilas Liñera (assassinated)
Omar Arturo Morales
Juan Jose Perez
Juan Ernesto Sanchez
Andres Bastidas Guedes
Jose Luis Rodriguez
Eduardo Jose Miranda
Julio Cesar Gomez
Rafael Tomas Pulido Marcano (APPEARED BADLY TORTURED)
Pedro Jose Sanchez Robles (assassinated)
William Alvarez Morales (assassinated)
Yormy Rafael Suarez Riveros (assassinated)
Evangelina Carrizo (assassinated)
Dictor Damas (assassinated)
Bruno Biella (assassinated)
Marvin Carrasco
Nelly Rodriguez Martinez (assassinated)
Jose Guevara Reyes (assassinated)
Juan Carlos Zambrano (assassinated)
Argenis Dugarte (assassinated)
Jose Guevara Reyes (assassinated)
Jose Sanchez Robles (assassinated)
Jose Luis Ricaurte (assassinated)
José Antonio Quero
Carlos Armando López Martínez
Nelson Alexander Batista
Orlando Antonio Bustamante, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Ángel Ciro Pedreáñez, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Maritza Ron, assassinated in Altamira Square on August 16th 2004
Silvino Bustillos. Gone missing on October 31 2004. Has not been seen since. Allegedly tortured and assassinated by a Military Intelligence squad commanded by National Guard Lieutenant Danny Alfredo Daniels Perez.
Antonio Lopez Castillo, assassinated by the State police
Juan Carlos Sanchez, assassinated by the State police
Romer Luján, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Raúl Royett Gutiérrez, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Leonardo González Lárez (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005
Edgar Quintero Torrealba (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005
Erick Miguel Montenegro Sánchez (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005
and yet i have a feeling if someone posted a list of people who were critical of the past administration that died or had accidents you would say it was a crazy conspiracy theory....
Does such a list exist? If so I would love to see it. But instead of staying on topic you jump off a cliff. Just like a typical liberal. When Facts come into play, quick change the subject.....
So what next ? Are you going to tell me that these people never existed ?
would you like me to? tell the universe what you need, prfctlefts
i did read an article a few years ago about people critical of the bush administration and the war and there were quite a few that died in plane crashes, like wellstone. i wasn't changing the subject, i was calling into question how quickly you'd accept such a story about a different president, like one that you agreed with.\
i already said i didn't support the suppressive measures he's taken and if he's had people that were critical of him killed then i wouldn't support that, either, in fact i don't think anyone here would
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I'm gonna take a break from what seems to be the trend of this thread and try to apply some common sense to the following words:
maybe Sean Penn wasn't advocating for the suspension of first amendment rights and calling for the assassination of everyone who disagrees with him - maybe he was just using an exaggeration to get across the point that he's frustrated with a slander campaign that has been plaguing journalists, whose job it is NOT to present their opinion oftentimes but facts, to use terms like 'dictator' incorrectly. I don't know about you guys, but I don't think Sean Penn would be in favor of a military dictatorship with no free media in this country, but maybe he just doesn't like journalists lying.
Carlos Augusto Aumatrie (assassinated)
Juan Carlos Urbano Lugo (assassinated)
Jose Manuel Vilas Liñera (assassinated)
Omar Arturo Morales
Juan Jose Perez
Juan Ernesto Sanchez
Andres Bastidas Guedes
Jose Luis Rodriguez
Eduardo Jose Miranda
Julio Cesar Gomez
Rafael Tomas Pulido Marcano (APPEARED BADLY TORTURED)
Pedro Jose Sanchez Robles (assassinated)
William Alvarez Morales (assassinated)
Yormy Rafael Suarez Riveros (assassinated)
Evangelina Carrizo (assassinated)
Dictor Damas (assassinated)
Bruno Biella (assassinated)
Marvin Carrasco
Nelly Rodriguez Martinez (assassinated)
Jose Guevara Reyes (assassinated)
Juan Carlos Zambrano (assassinated)
Argenis Dugarte (assassinated)
Jose Guevara Reyes (assassinated)
Jose Sanchez Robles (assassinated)
Jose Luis Ricaurte (assassinated)
José Antonio Quero
Carlos Armando López Martínez
Nelson Alexander Batista
Orlando Antonio Bustamante, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Ángel Ciro Pedreáñez, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Maritza Ron, assassinated in Altamira Square on August 16th 2004
Silvino Bustillos. Gone missing on October 31 2004. Has not been seen since. Allegedly tortured and assassinated by a Military Intelligence squad commanded by National Guard Lieutenant Danny Alfredo Daniels Perez.
Antonio Lopez Castillo, assassinated by the State police
Juan Carlos Sanchez, assassinated by the State police
Romer Luján, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Raúl Royett Gutiérrez, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Leonardo González Lárez (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005
Edgar Quintero Torrealba (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005
Erick Miguel Montenegro Sánchez (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005
I'd like to see some evidence that Chevez was responsible for the deaths of these people instead of just a list of Spanish sounding names that on the surface means fuck-all.
I'd like to see some evidence that Chevez was responsible for the deaths of these people instead of just a list of Spanish sounding names that on the surface means fuck-all.
You can go to human rights watch websites and gets tons of stuff about Chavez ... Or you can drink Oliver Stone's Kool-Aid and believe that Chavez really is a fun-loving jolly cowboy who just wants freedom for all.
I'd like to see some evidence that Chevez was responsible for the deaths of these people instead of just a list of Spanish sounding names that on the surface means fuck-all.
You can go to human rights watch websites and gets tons of stuff about Chavez ...
Then go ahead and provide some evidence of those murdered by Chavez. I'm all ears.
So far, when discussing this issue, all I've seen are people rolling out a bunch of Spanish-sounding names, and unfortunately that doesn't amount to jack-shit.
Then go ahead and provide some evidence of those murdered by Chavez. I'm all ears.
So far, when discussing this issue, all I've seen are people rolling out a bunch of Spanish-sounding names, and unfortunately that doesn't amount to jack-shit.
Excerpt:
“In meticulous detail, the 300-page report documents how Mr. Chávez’s regime has done away with judicial independence, intimidated or eliminated opposition media, stripped elected opposition leaders of their powers, and used bogus criminal charges to silence human rights groups. Much of this has been reported. But the commission, made up of seven jurists and rights activists from Antigua, Argentina, Brazil, Chile and the United States, offers a level of detail and a stance of impartiality that ought to discredit those defenders of Mr. Chávez who paint his critics as Yanqui imperialists or coup-plotters.
Particularly shocking is the commission’s account of the role that violence and murder have played in Mr. Chávez’s concentration of power. The report documents killings of journalists, opposition protesters and farmers; it says that 173 trade union leaders and members were slain between 1997 and 2009 “in the context of trade union violence, with contract killings being the most common method for attacking union leaders.” The report says that in 2008 Venezuela’s human rights ombudsman recorded 134 complaints of arbitrary killings by security forces, 87 allegations of torture and 33 cases of forced disappearance. It also asserts that radical groups allied with Mr. Chávez “are perpetrating acts of violence with the involvement or acquiescence of state agents.
There has been no accountability for these acts. “Impunity,” says the report, “is a common characteristic that equally affects cases of reprisal against dissent, attacks on human rights defenders and on journalists, excessive use of force in response to peaceful protests, abuses of state force, common and organized crime, violence in prisons, violence against women, and other serious human rights violations.”
Excerpt:
“In meticulous detail, the 300-page report documents how Mr. Chávez’s regime has done away with judicial independence, intimidated or eliminated opposition media, stripped elected opposition leaders of their powers, and used bogus criminal charges to silence human rights groups. Much of this has been reported. But the commission, made up of seven jurists and rights activists from Antigua, Argentina, Brazil, Chile and the United States, offers a level of detail and a stance of impartiality that ought to discredit those defenders of Mr. Chávez who paint his critics as Yanqui imperialists or coup-plotters.
Particularly shocking is the commission’s account of the role that violence and murder have played in Mr. Chávez’s concentration of power. The report documents killings of journalists, opposition protesters and farmers; it says that 173 trade union leaders and members were slain between 1997 and 2009 “in the context of trade union violence, with contract killings being the most common method for attacking union leaders.” The report says that in 2008 Venezuela’s human rights ombudsman recorded 134 complaints of arbitrary killings by security forces, 87 allegations of torture and 33 cases of forced disappearance. It also asserts that radical groups allied with Mr. Chávez “are perpetrating acts of violence with the involvement or acquiescence of state agents.
There has been no accountability for these acts. “Impunity,” says the report, “is a common characteristic that equally affects cases of reprisal against dissent, attacks on human rights defenders and on journalists, excessive use of force in response to peaceful protests, abuses of state force, common and organized crime, violence in prisons, violence against women, and other serious human rights violations.”
This is the same report that CaterinaCK trumpeted a few months back. It contains lots of unsubstantiated allegations. The investigating party did not even set foot inside the country. Until I see some real proof to support these allegations and of Chavez's role in them then I'll continue to dismiss them.
One report from an organization whose headquarters are in Washington D.C, that contains nothing but accusations and assumptions, does not an open and shut case make.
Many of the allegations in this report were addressed in John Pilgers documentary 'The War on Democracy'. Did you see it?
Well, I am not sure what data will convince you. We are talking about a regime that is not transparent about its activities by definition, and Chavez is not going to be tried for these possible murders anytime soon. If you want to make an innocent until proven guilty argument, sure. I think there's more than enough concerns to warrant an investigation, assuming we stick with a legal system analogy. The Human Rights Watch website has a lot more material on Venezuela, and I think its fair to conclude that Chavez is indeed at the helm of a dictatorial regime. He may not be Saddam Hussein, but he's no Mother Theresa either.
sean is the real deal. he is one of the best actors alive, does whatever the hell he wants, and speaks his mind without fear of alienating anyone, and I think he personally could care less if he did.
the man can ACT, and the capitalization is intended.
while he may vote democrat, the guy is a radical. his father was a suspected commie, and sean himself is a radical. he has said many times his views on war, on peace, on the environment, on life, and they aint "democrat".
sean is the real deal. he is one of the best actors alive, does whatever the hell he wants, and speaks his mind without fear of alienating anyone, and I think he personally could care less if he did.
that means he does care.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
sean is the real deal. he is one of the best actors alive, does whatever the hell he wants, and speaks his mind without fear of alienating anyone, and I think he personally could care less if he did.
that means he does care.
Nice avatar Dunk.
I noticed the other week that the Huck was awarded the Grammy for 'Best International Musician'. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. I think I merely grimaced. I hope you bump into him on a dark night in Scotland on your way back from a hammer tossing contest and do the right thing.
sean is the real deal. he is one of the best actors alive, does whatever the hell he wants, and speaks his mind without fear of alienating anyone, and I think he personally could care less if he did.
that means he does care.
Nice avatar Dunk.
I noticed the other week that the Huck was awarded the Grammy for 'Best International Musician'. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. I think I merely grimaced. I hope you bump into him on a dark night in Scotland on your way back from a hammer tossing contest and do the right thing.
thanks amigo! :thumbup:
hammer tossing...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Comments
would you like me to? tell the universe what you need, prfctlefts
i did read an article a few years ago about people critical of the bush administration and the war and there were quite a few that died in plane crashes, like wellstone. i wasn't changing the subject, i was calling into question how quickly you'd accept such a story about a different president, like one that you agreed with.\
i already said i didn't support the suppressive measures he's taken and if he's had people that were critical of him killed then i wouldn't support that, either, in fact i don't think anyone here would
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
maybe Sean Penn wasn't advocating for the suspension of first amendment rights and calling for the assassination of everyone who disagrees with him - maybe he was just using an exaggeration to get across the point that he's frustrated with a slander campaign that has been plaguing journalists, whose job it is NOT to present their opinion oftentimes but facts, to use terms like 'dictator' incorrectly. I don't know about you guys, but I don't think Sean Penn would be in favor of a military dictatorship with no free media in this country, but maybe he just doesn't like journalists lying.
alright, back to your nonsense...
I'd like to see some evidence that Chevez was responsible for the deaths of these people instead of just a list of Spanish sounding names that on the surface means fuck-all.
You can go to human rights watch websites and gets tons of stuff about Chavez ... Or you can drink Oliver Stone's Kool-Aid and believe that Chavez really is a fun-loving jolly cowboy who just wants freedom for all.
Then go ahead and provide some evidence of those murdered by Chavez. I'm all ears.
So far, when discussing this issue, all I've seen are people rolling out a bunch of Spanish-sounding names, and unfortunately that doesn't amount to jack-shit.
http://www.uncoverage.net/2010/03/hugo- ... -ken-doll/
Excerpt:
“In meticulous detail, the 300-page report documents how Mr. Chávez’s regime has done away with judicial independence, intimidated or eliminated opposition media, stripped elected opposition leaders of their powers, and used bogus criminal charges to silence human rights groups. Much of this has been reported. But the commission, made up of seven jurists and rights activists from Antigua, Argentina, Brazil, Chile and the United States, offers a level of detail and a stance of impartiality that ought to discredit those defenders of Mr. Chávez who paint his critics as Yanqui imperialists or coup-plotters.
Particularly shocking is the commission’s account of the role that violence and murder have played in Mr. Chávez’s concentration of power. The report documents killings of journalists, opposition protesters and farmers; it says that 173 trade union leaders and members were slain between 1997 and 2009 “in the context of trade union violence, with contract killings being the most common method for attacking union leaders.” The report says that in 2008 Venezuela’s human rights ombudsman recorded 134 complaints of arbitrary killings by security forces, 87 allegations of torture and 33 cases of forced disappearance. It also asserts that radical groups allied with Mr. Chávez “are perpetrating acts of violence with the involvement or acquiescence of state agents.
There has been no accountability for these acts. “Impunity,” says the report, “is a common characteristic that equally affects cases of reprisal against dissent, attacks on human rights defenders and on journalists, excessive use of force in response to peaceful protests, abuses of state force, common and organized crime, violence in prisons, violence against women, and other serious human rights violations.”
This is the same report that CaterinaCK trumpeted a few months back. It contains lots of unsubstantiated allegations. The investigating party did not even set foot inside the country. Until I see some real proof to support these allegations and of Chavez's role in them then I'll continue to dismiss them.
One report from an organization whose headquarters are in Washington D.C, that contains nothing but accusations and assumptions, does not an open and shut case make.
Many of the allegations in this report were addressed in John Pilgers documentary 'The War on Democracy'. Did you see it?
Google Video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9629840148
the man can ACT, and the capitalization is intended.
while he may vote democrat, the guy is a radical. his father was a suspected commie, and sean himself is a radical. he has said many times his views on war, on peace, on the environment, on life, and they aint "democrat".
that means he does care.
Nice avatar Dunk.
I noticed the other week that the Huck was awarded the Grammy for 'Best International Musician'. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. I think I merely grimaced. I hope you bump into him on a dark night in Scotland on your way back from a hammer tossing contest and do the right thing.
thanks amigo! :thumbup:
hammer tossing...
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
Whereas Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are the Lone Ranger and Tonto, right?