*THE 2010, 2012, and 2014 WORLD SERIES CHAMPION SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS*

F Me In The Brain

Tough to argue that nobody sticks up for Barry.
Shows you what happens when you treat everyone like crap.

Wobbie

cuz he was, wah wah, not nice. not a wife beater or racist, tho, like some other HOFers.

F Me In The Brain

Also tough to argue.

cutz

Big Papi had 18 HR & 48 RBI in only 89 games played at age 25.
Age 26: 20 & 75 in 120 games.
Age 27: 31 & 101 in 150 games (5th in MVP Vote)
Age: 28: 41 & 139 in  159 games (4th in MVP Vote & made All Star team.

I think that's a little better then an average played and I only gave HR's & RBI stat.  Plus, he was given the chance to play in more games and he produced.

cutz

Wobbie said:

Hmmm....I don’t see manfred urging leniency for bonds.

my whole thing is nobody knows for SURE about 99% of the players in the steroid era. I’m pretty sure piazza, pudge and bagwell all used...but they get a pass because they didn’t antagonize reporters. I have suspicions about rickey henderson, as well. Bonds had two newspaper reporters, full time for two years, and the federal government after him. I’ve read the feds spent $75M. no one else faced that kind of scrutiny, if they faced any at all.

Exactly: MOST did not know about what players did, or did not do. But, the reporters are the Gate keepers on who gets into the HOF. They have to be able to separate how the player played and not if they liked that player or not, to determine if they're HOFers'. 

Also agree about the players you named getting a pass and Rickey Henderson. Though, I do consider them HOFer's.

Poncier

cutz said:

Big Papi had 18 HR & 48 RBI in only 89 games played at age 25.
Age 26: 20 & 75 in 120 games.
Age 27: 31 & 101 in 150 games (5th in MVP Vote)
Age: 28: 41 & 139 in  159 games (4th in MVP Vote & made All Star team.

I think that's a little better then an average played and I only gave HR's & RBI stat.  Plus, he was given the chance to play in more games and he produced.

And you can't discount the effect of having Money Ramirez hitting either in front of him or behind him for many of those first years in Boston.

F Me In The Brain

I didnt look to see that he was born in Nov, so those ages are off by a year, adjusted.  I take it back, he was for sure above average as a 28 year old, he was a top producer. 

Check it out though....there is a season (2000) where he had 415 ABs and hit 10 homers and then the next season (2001) he has 303 ABs and somehow he becomes a big time home run hitter and hits 18. 

Also....look at home he is after age 35, when hitters decline.  He has 4 of his best 7 seasons out of 20 in the bigs.  Who does that? 

Do we KNOW for sure?  No way, unless they admit to it we do not.

1 - 2006 - Age 30 - a homer every 2.7 games

2 - 2005 - Age 29 - 3.3

2 - 2004 - Age 28 - 3.6

3 - 2011 - Age 35 - 3.7

4 - 2012 - Age 36 - 3.9

5 - 2015 - Age 39 - 3.9

6 - 2016 - Age 40 - 3.9

24 -  2000 - 10 homers 130 games - 1 every 13 games (watch out...here come the roids)

25 - 2001 - 18 homers 89 games -  1 every 4.9 (damn - from 1 every 13 to 1 every 4.9 games?  hold shit?!  He discovered homers!)

26 - 2002 - 20 homers 125 games -  1 every 6.2

27 - 2003 - Red Sox - 31 homers 128 games - 1 every 4.1

28 - 2004 - 41 homers 150 games - 1 every 3.6

29 - 47/159 - 1 every 3.3

30 - 54/151 - 1 every 2.7

31 - 35/149 - 1 every 4.2

32 - 23/109 - 1 every 4.7

33 - 28/150 - 1 every 5.3

34 - 32/145 - 1 every 4.5

35 - 39/146 - 1 every 3.7

36- 23/90 - 1 every 3.9

37 - 30/137 - 1 every 4.5

38 - 35/142 - 1 every 4

39 - 37/146 - 1 every 3.9

40 - 38/151 - 1 every 3.9

I get it if you are a Big Papi fan.

I am fine with him being in the HoF -- and Cheater Bonds, Clemens, and whomever else.

But, I do think there is every reason to think that Big Papi was a roider.

Halifax2TheMax

F Me In The Brain said:

I didnt look to see that he was born in Nov, so those ages are off by a year, adjusted.  I take it back, he was for sure above average as a 28 year old, he was a top producer. 

Check it out though....there is a season (2000) where he had 415 ABs and hit 10 homers and then the next season (2001) he has 303 ABs and somehow he becomes a big time home run hitter and hits 18. 

Also....look at home he is after age 35, when hitters decline.  He has 4 of his best 7 seasons out of 20 in the bigs.  Who does that? 

Do we KNOW for sure?  No way, unless they admit to it we do not.

1 - 2006 - Age 30 - a homer every 2.7 games

2 - 2005 - Age 29 - 3.3

2 - 2004 - Age 28 - 3.6

3 - 2011 - Age 35 - 3.7

4 - 2012 - Age 36 - 3.9

5 - 2015 - Age 39 - 3.9

6 - 2016 - Age 40 - 3.9

24 -  2000 - 10 homers 130 games - 1 every 13 games (watch out...here come the roids)

25 - 2001 - 18 homers 89 games -  1 every 4.9 (damn - from 1 every 13 to 1 every 4.9 games?  hold shit?!  He discovered homers!)

26 - 2002 - 20 homers 125 games -  1 every 6.2

27 - 2003 - Red Sox - 31 homers 128 games - 1 every 4.1

28 - 2004 - 41 homers 150 games - 1 every 3.6

29 - 47/159 - 1 every 3.3

30 - 54/151 - 1 every 2.7

31 - 35/149 - 1 every 4.2

32 - 23/109 - 1 every 4.7

33 - 28/150 - 1 every 5.3

34 - 32/145 - 1 every 4.5

35 - 39/146 - 1 every 3.7

36- 23/90 - 1 every 3.9

37 - 30/137 - 1 every 4.5

38 - 35/142 - 1 every 4

39 - 37/146 - 1 every 3.9

40 - 38/151 - 1 every 3.9

I get it if you are a Big Papi fan.

I am fine with him being in the HoF -- and Cheater Bonds, Clemens, and whomever else.

But, I do think there is every reason to think that Big Papi was a roider.

As was Jeter. Talk about injury, lack thereof? Same-same. And Tiger. The whole fucking decade across the board was roided. Everyone was doing it. Romanowski bragged about his tackle box on 60 Minutes. Rampant. Pick and choose yours villains i supposes.

Poncier

F Me In The Brain said:

I didnt look to see that he was born in Nov, so those ages are off by a year, adjusted.  I take it back, he was for sure above average as a 28 year old, he was a top producer. 

Check it out though....there is a season (2000) where he had 415 ABs and hit 10 homers and then the next season (2001) he has 303 ABs and somehow he becomes a big time home run hitter and hits 18. 

Also....look at home he is after age 35, when hitters decline.  He has 4 of his best 7 seasons out of 20 in the bigs.  Who does that? 

Do we KNOW for sure?  No way, unless they admit to it we do not.

1 - 2006 - Age 30 - a homer every 2.7 games

2 - 2005 - Age 29 - 3.3

2 - 2004 - Age 28 - 3.6

3 - 2011 - Age 35 - 3.7

4 - 2012 - Age 36 - 3.9

5 - 2015 - Age 39 - 3.9

6 - 2016 - Age 40 - 3.9

24 -  2000 - 10 homers 130 games - 1 every 13 games (watch out...here come the roids)

25 - 2001 - 18 homers 89 games -  1 every 4.9 (damn - from 1 every 13 to 1 every 4.9 games?  hold shit?!  He discovered homers!)

26 - 2002 - 20 homers 125 games -  1 every 6.2

27 - 2003 - Red Sox - 31 homers 128 games - 1 every 4.1

28 - 2004 - 41 homers 150 games - 1 every 3.6

29 - 47/159 - 1 every 3.3

30 - 54/151 - 1 every 2.7

31 - 35/149 - 1 every 4.2

32 - 23/109 - 1 every 4.7

33 - 28/150 - 1 every 5.3

34 - 32/145 - 1 every 4.5

35 - 39/146 - 1 every 3.7

36- 23/90 - 1 every 3.9

37 - 30/137 - 1 every 4.5

38 - 35/142 - 1 every 4

39 - 37/146 - 1 every 3.9

40 - 38/151 - 1 every 3.9

I get it if you are a Big Papi fan.

I am fine with him being in the HoF -- and Cheater Bonds, Clemens, and whomever else.

But, I do think there is every reason to think that Big Papi was a roider.

So you point to the single outlier season when he was just getting established in the majors and fine tuning his swing as the reason he must have been on steroids the rest of his career.
And clearly he's the only player to have that happen. Cause Griffey's jump from 16 to 22 to 22 to 27 to 45, 40, 49, 56, 56, 48, 40 is just a hitter finding his swing, but Ortiz has to be roids.
What's good for the goose...

F Me In The Brain

No ties between Griffey and Roids...and Griffey put on some muscle, he was 18-19-20.  
Griffey also didn't have some of his best years at an age where almost everyone else loses it.

I get it, you are a Boston guy and like Big Papi.  
I'm a Griffey fan, Wob is a Fathead fan.
We are all gonna stick up for our guys.....but in this I am the only one who is right!

Halifax2TheMax

F Me In The Brain said:

No ties between Griffey and Roids...and Griffey put on some muscle, he was 18-19-20.  
Griffey also didn't have some of his best years at an age where almost everyone else loses it.

I get it, you are a Boston guy and like Big Papi.  
I'm a Griffey fan, Wob is a Fathead fan.
We are all gonna stick up for our guys.....but in this I am the only one who is right!

Pitter patter.

Wobbie

sloppi was a one trick pony....not even close to the player bonds was.

Halifax2TheMax

Wobbie said:

sloppi was a one trick pony....not even close to the player bonds was.

Papi had stolen bases too. Two trick pony.

Poncier

Wobbie said:

sloppi was a one trick pony....not even close to the player bonds was.

Yep his one trick was coming up clutch in the playoffs and winning titles, a trick Barroid could never master.

Wobbie

Halifax2TheMax said:

Wobbie said:

sloppi was a one trick pony....not even close to the player bonds was.

Papi had stolen bases too. Two trick pony.

sloppi had roughly 3% of bonds’ total (17 vs. 514)

F Me In The Brain

Wobbie said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Wobbie said:

sloppi was a one trick pony....not even close to the player bonds was.

Papi had stolen bases too. Two trick pony.

sloppi had roughly 3% of bonds’ total (17 vs. 514)

His other trick was being a nice guy.
Bonds didn't try that one. 

Wobbie

touche.

Wobbie

even if you're a hater, like ernie, this is a pretty amazing story...

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30800732/san-francisco-giants-outfielder-drew-robinson-remarkable-second-act

tempo_n_groove

@wobbie, are you paying attention to the farm team and the players in the pipes?

Ramos, Bishop, Luciano, Bart?

Some big bats.

Wobbie

tempo_n_groove said:

@wobbie, are you paying attention to the farm team and the players in the pipes?

Ramos, Bishop, Luciano, Bart?

Some big bats.

Not paying a ton of attention. I know of Ramos and Bart (of course). I'll believe it when I see it. The Giants' "prospects" tend to disappoint. Our "can't miss" pick of 2006 ended up charged with murder. We've had luck with Bum, Cain, Lincecum and Crawford. Before that, you had to almost go back to Will the Thrill for a homegrown star. In the 80's the Giants had a guy (Rick Lancelotti) who consistently hit 40 HR/yr at AAA but never could stick in the bigs.