out of curiosity

Pepe Silvia

say it's 2030 and Afghanistan has a stronger government and doesn't rely on the US anymore.

if the Afghanistan government created an al qaeda ribbon and gave it to members, or family members if they were dead, of al qaeda that committed acts of terror killing hundreds of people and said it was for their role in the creation of Afghanistan....how would you feel about it? would you say it's meaningless, al qaeda killed people a few decades ago (and were granted amnesty from the Afghan government) and since it was a while ago it's no big deal? or would you be offended that a government is honoring people for helping create their country through acts of terror and the murder of 100's of innocent people?

yosi

Is this really necessary?!

NoK

I'd say they are fucked up but it is their country after all. My prediction would be that because these fanatical elements are commended for their work, the Afghan government would slowly turn fanatical itself (either through promotion of these individuals or a change of culture) and would eventually justify atrocities for the sake of pseudo-patriotism.

catefrances

what do you mean the creation of afghanistan??? to the best of my knowledge afghanistan has existed for quite a number years..... and its got nothing it do with al qaeda.

Pepe Silvia

catefrances wrote:

what do you mean the creation of afghanistan??? to the best of my knowledge afghanistan has existed for quite a number years..... and its got nothing it do with al qaeda.

i understand Afghanistan already existed but we invaded Afghanistan because of their ties to al qaeda.

in the 80's Israel created a Lehi Ribbon commemorating the Lehi/Stern Gang for their role in "the creation and establishment of Israel"

the Lehi were a terrorist organization that blew up buildings, trains, wiped out an entire Palestinian village, assassinated political leaders.....yosi thinks this is no big deal to give such a ribbon but i think if a person were on the other end of the terrorism they would feel differently. it's easy to say it's no big deal when they didn't commit any acts of terror against your people.

the Lehi believed their god promised all that land to them so they were justified in doing whatever it took to get the land back, even through extreme and violent measures. the Lehi murdered a lot of innocent people so it just seems odd a group that was a known terrorist organization and known to have killed so many innocent people would receive such a commemoration.

yosi

Thank you Pepe for letting people know what I said without actually providing my argument. I didn't say that commemorating the Lehi isn't offensive. What I said was that whereas you would like to frame this award as if it says something significant about Israel's current political climate, as if the Israeli army was awarding soldiers the Lehi ribbon for their service in the occupied territories, the fact is that the ribbon was only given to former members of the Lehi, all of whom would have been at least in their sixties when they got it, long retired from active military service, so it's basically a minor decoration for a bunch of geezer veterans. AND, the award was created in 1980 a few years into Israel's first right-wing, non-labor government, and I would venture a guess that a large part of why this purely symbolic decoration was awarded had everything to do with Israel's internal culture and politics at that moment, and nothing to do with Israel's views towards the Palestinians.

rebornFixer

I am offended whenever people glorify terrorism ... Things like Lehi movement ribbons, and Palestinians dancing in the streets during 9-11 and to celebrate their "martyrs".

TriumphantAngel

or young Israeli children writing messages of "love" on missiles that are going to be used to kill human beings.

all with sick little smiles on their faces. kinda messed up don't you think.

Pepe Silvia

TriumphantAngel wrote:

or young Israeli children writing messages of "love" on missiles that are going to be used to kill human beings.

all with sick little smiles on their faces. kinda messed up don't you think.

go to an online translator and have it translate this jewish newspaper

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-1879848,00.html

the translation will be crude but the basics say
as reported on May 7, 2002, by the Israeli paper, Yedioth Ahronoth, that Israeli school children, some of them teenagers and only a few years away from joining military service, sent letters in which they write "please kill a lot of Arabs", "I pray for you that you return home safely, and kill at least ten for me," "Let the Palestinians, may God blacken their name, burn in Hell. Punch holes in them with your M-16 and bomb them"

NoK

rebornFixer wrote:

and Palestinians dancing in the streets during 9-11 and to celebrate their "martyrs".

At the time they only knew buildings had been hit, and the celebrations were for a bully getting attacked. Once the news of all the civilian deaths was clear a couple of days later, there were memorials all over the world (East Jerusalem as well).

Ill copy paste this extract:

However, the US media did not widely circulate European media reports (by the German weeklies Der Spiegel and Stern, by the German public TV magazine Panorama and by the Swedish Dagens Nyheter) that while the footage was indeed correctly dated, reporters may have partly staged one of the scenes. One woman was quoted saying that she was offered a piece of pie for whooping it up in front of the camera. It is unclear whether it was explained to the woman what she was supposedly celebrating, nor is it clear whether the person who offered her the treat was a reporter. The Panorama TV report which analyzed the full video footage noted (translated):

A closer look at the complete film material which was not broadcast shows that the street around the celebration is quiet. Only in front of the camera there are a few excited children. The woman, who is remembered for her cheering, shortly afterward moves along quietly. A man in a white T-shirt is conspicuous. He incites the children, and keeps fetching new people. The woman who just left the picture says today that she was offered cake if she celebrates on camera, and that she was appalled when she saw the pictures on television.

TriumphantAngel

Pepe Silvia wrote:

TriumphantAngel wrote:

or young Israeli children writing messages of "love" on missiles that are going to be used to kill human beings.

all with sick little smiles on their faces. kinda messed up don't you think.

go to an online translator and have it translate this jewish newspaper

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-1879848,00.html

the translation will be crude but the basics say
as reported on May 7, 2002, by the Israeli paper, Yedioth Ahronoth, that Israeli school children, some of them teenagers and only a few years away from joining military service, sent letters in which they write "please kill a lot of Arabs", "I pray for you that you return home safely, and kill at least ten for me," "Let the Palestinians, may God blacken their name, burn in Hell. Punch holes in them with your M-16 and bomb them"

so the Yedioth Ahronoth reported the letters? Israel's largest circulation newspaper?

excuse me while i go throw up.

disgusting, inhumane, cruel pigs.

gimmesometruth27

TriumphantAngel wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

TriumphantAngel wrote:

or young Israeli children writing messages of "love" on missiles that are going to be used to kill human beings.

all with sick little smiles on their faces. kinda messed up don't you think.

go to an online translator and have it translate this jewish newspaper

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-1879848,00.html

the translation will be crude but the basics say
as reported on May 7, 2002, by the Israeli paper, Yedioth Ahronoth, that Israeli school children, some of them teenagers and only a few years away from joining military service, sent letters in which they write "please kill a lot of Arabs", "I pray for you that you return home safely, and kill at least ten for me," "Let the Palestinians, may God blacken their name, burn in Hell. Punch holes in them with your M-16 and bomb them"

so the Yedioth Ahronoth reported the letters? Israel's largest circulation newspaper?

excuse me while i go throw up.

disgusting, inhumane, cruel pigs.

absolutely agree with you TA...disgusting...

i am waiting for the isreal apologists on the forum to defend that....

yosi

Not an apologist, just not a knee-jerk, blind consumer of far-left media. And there's nothing to defend. Some fucked up people wrote some fucked up shit.

yosi

Also, my Hebrew is a little rusty, but the article is actually an opinion piece. The first paragraph lays out the facts. Yediot reported that some students at a religious school wrote letters to soldiers (this was in 2002) where they asked them to kill arabs. When the the soldiers, who were reservists, got the letters they immediately reported them to a center for pluralism, which is how the story ended up on the front page of the paper. What's interesting here is that this story, I think, actually says something different about Israeli society than you'd have it say. Yeah, what the kids wrote was awful, but what stands out to me is that some of the same soldiers you guys put down so much were just as offended as you guys are and reported these letters to an Israeli organization that works towards furthering pluralism. And once the media got hold of this it was considered so shocking that it made the front cover of the largest circulation paper in Israel. The story in Yediot was premised on the understanding that something like this would be found offensive and wrong by most Israelis, hence the prominent coverage.

TriumphantAngel

yosi wrote:

Also, my Hebrew is a little rusty, but the article is actually an opinion piece. The first paragraph lays out the facts. Yediot reported that some students at a religious school wrote letters to soldiers (this was in 2002) where they asked them to kill arabs. When the the soldiers, who were reservists, got the letters they immediately reported them to a center for pluralism, which is how the story ended up on the front page of the paper. What's interesting here is that this story, I think, actually says something different about Israeli society than you'd have it say. Yeah, what the kids wrote was awful, but what stands out to me is that some of the same soldiers you guys put down so much were just as offended as you guys are and reported these letters to an Israeli organization that works towards furthering pluralism. And once the media got hold of this it was considered so shocking that it made the front cover of the largest circulation paper in Israel. The story in Yediot was premised on the understanding that something like this would be found offensive and wrong by most Israelis, hence the prominent coverage.

Source: Yedioth Ahronoth, May 7, 2002
The director of the public department at the Jewish Action Center sent a letter to the Education Minister demanding she investigate the situation and curb "trends towards radicalization." The ministry said it will investigate.

hopefully that happened.

i searched, but couldn't find any follow up stories reporting on how successful that was and was sort of steps they put into place to curb the trend towards radicalization. i found that surprising since the initial story had been given such prominant coverage and apparently considered so shocking.

Pepe Silvia

TriumphantAngel wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

TriumphantAngel wrote:

or young Israeli children writing messages of "love" on missiles that are going to be used to kill human beings.

all with sick little smiles on their faces. kinda messed up don't you think.

go to an online translator and have it translate this jewish newspaper

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-1879848,00.html

the translation will be crude but the basics say
as reported on May 7, 2002, by the Israeli paper, Yedioth Ahronoth, that Israeli school children, some of them teenagers and only a few years away from joining military service, sent letters in which they write "please kill a lot of Arabs", "I pray for you that you return home safely, and kill at least ten for me," "Let the Palestinians, may God blacken their name, burn in Hell. Punch holes in them with your M-16 and bomb them"

so the Yedioth Ahronoth reported the letters? Israel's largest circulation newspaper?

excuse me while i go throw up.

disgusting, inhumane, cruel pigs.

they didn't publish the letters, they reported on a certain school or schools sending letters like that and gave a few examples. i don't think it was endorsed by the paper and some of the solders were shocked by them

gimmesometruth27

yosi wrote:

Also, my Hebrew is a little rusty, but the article is actually an opinion piece. The first paragraph lays out the facts. Yediot reported that some students at a religious school wrote letters to soldiers (this was in 2002) where they asked them to kill arabs. When the the soldiers, who were reservists, got the letters they immediately reported them to a center for pluralism, which is how the story ended up on the front page of the paper. What's interesting here is that this story, I think, actually says something different about Israeli society than you'd have it say. Yeah, what the kids wrote was awful, but what stands out to me is that some of the same soldiers you guys put down so much were just as offended as you guys are and reported these letters to an Israeli organization that works towards furthering pluralism. And once the media got hold of this it was considered so shocking that it made the front cover of the largest circulation paper in Israel. The story in Yediot was premised on the understanding that something like this would be found offensive and wrong by most Israelis, hence the prominent coverage.

it is offensive to more than just isrealis....

it is difficult for me to type this, but to me what these children did is the exact same thing as if some german kids in the late 1930s and early 1940s got their hands on some unused zyklon b and wrote messages on the cans knowing those were going to the death camps. it is absolutely disgusting...as long as the youth are allowed to think like this there will never be progress and there will never be peace...

concertaholicshirt

Thought I lost a bet with myself, but then I read his second post and realized I was right... just another hate Israel thread from Pepe.

Pepe Silvia

concertaholicshirt wrote:

Thought I lost a bet with myself, but then I read his second post and realized I was right... just another hate Israel thread from Pepe.

just another post lacking any substance from concertaholicshirt :roll: