Death in Gaza the documentary

Pepe Silvia

has anyone seen this? i got it from netflix, it shows the culture of martyrdom and the people that get sucked into it.

it's very sad at parts. little kids 12 or so years old wanting to be martyrs. so many kids living 5 miles from the ocean but never being allowed to see it because the Israeli's won't let them. kids sitting on rubble that used to be a row of houses watching tanks and f-16s constantly driving by and flying overhead...the terror on the little kids faces when they would see or hear an Israeli tank coming...and this is their every day life! a girl crying saying her life is nothing but despair, she had wanted to be a lawyer and help people but she is afraid to go to school because she has lost 8 people in her family younger than her, many shot leaving school (a 9th is killed during filming for throwing a rock at a bulldozer illegally knocking down homes, though the incident wasn't filmed). she later tells of the IDF forcing her and her family out of their home and when they left the house a tank aiming it's canon at them and swiveling to follow them as they walked off and when they came back homes were destroyed and her uncles car had been smashed and placed on top of a tree which caused the tree to fall hitting another home. when a leader from 1 of the resistance movements is asked isn't 1 of the kids followed in the doc, who is 12, too young to be involved in all this he replies everyone there has been robbed of a childhood. if Israel wasn't occupying them (illegally, btw) and shooting people and sending helicopters to blow up a car in a crowded area to kill a single person a kid like him could focus on his studies and helping the local economy but he can't because of constant fear of being shot. btw, that kid had previously stated the moment he chose to join the resistance was when he saw his best friend shot in the head by an Israeli.

early on in 1 of the towns a bunch of IDF tanks move in and block the roads, the film crew asks what's going on and why are they blocking the roads and the only reply they get from the IDF is "nothing much is going on". i wonder if i would be throwing rocks at those tanks if i was a little kid growing up in that environment?

obviously i don't think being a martyr is a sensible thing but what if our every day life was tanks from an occupying army rolling into town and someone getting shot? big explosions and attacks by tanks and helicopters in the middle of the night?a kids being shot for throwing rocks at a bulldozer illegally knocking down homes? and yeah, we can ask what are the kids thinking throwing a rock at a tank or armored bulldozer but i think i would probably grow up with a resentment for the illegal occupying army doing these things routinely.

also, the director/cameraman, James Miller, was killed, shot in the neck by the IDF who say it was self defense (??) but the video shows them waving a white flag with TV written on their vests and helmets...the shot that kills him comes right after they yell "hello, we are british journalists"....how would any of us develop growing up where an occupying army pretty much has impunity to do whatever they want and kill whomever they want? maybe some fairy tale about dying to help free your people and send you to a paradise compared to your current living hell would seem like a good idea to those kids living under those desperate conditions, or at least a better hope than they feel their life holds

2 of the kids were later displaced along with thousands more when their homes were bulldozed down 6 months later and 2 of the kids who had wanted to be martyrs said they wanted to be cameramen/journalists now

rebornFixer

The problem with figuring out incidents like the James Miller shooting is that its impossible to truly know the circumstances going on at the time. Do I think that IDF troops knowingly shoot non-combatants? I do, at least in some of these incidents. On the other hand, human rights groups have recently been taking Hamas to task for hiding behind non-combatants while firing at IDF troops (among other so-called war crimes). How many people get used as human shields, by both sides? Journalists get caught in the crossfire, too. Every single time things like this happen, one side says it was an accident while the other says it was cold-blooded murder. I don't know who to believe a lot of the time. It probably depends on the specific incident.

One thing from this post that gives me some encouragement is those two kids saying they want to be journalists instead of martyrs. That's amazing, and gives me a bit more hope. One journalist spreading the truth about what happens over there is worth countless martyrs.

yosi

rebornFixer wrote:

The problem with figuring out incidents like the James Miller shooting is that its impossible to truly know the circumstances going on at the time. Do I think that IDF troops knowingly shoot non-combatants? I do, at least in some of these incidents. On the other hand, human rights groups have recently been taking Hamas to task for hiding behind non-combatants while firing at IDF troops (among other so-called war crimes). How many people get used as human shields, by both sides? Journalists get caught in the crossfire, too. Every single time things like this happen, one side says it was an accident while the other says it was cold-blooded murder. I don't know who to believe a lot of the time. It probably depends on the specific incident.

One thing from this post that gives me some encouragement is those two kids saying they want to be journalists instead of martyrs. That's amazing, and gives me a bit more hope. One journalist spreading the truth about what happens over there is worth countless martyrs.

+1

Pepe Silvia

rebornFixer wrote:

The problem with figuring out incidents like the James Miller shooting is that its impossible to truly know the circumstances going on at the time. Do I think that IDF troops knowingly shoot non-combatants? I do, at least in some of these incidents. On the other hand, human rights groups have recently been taking Hamas to task for hiding behind non-combatants while firing at IDF troops (among other so-called war crimes). How many people get used as human shields, by both sides? Journalists get caught in the crossfire, too. Every single time things like this happen, one side says it was an accident while the other says it was cold-blooded murder. I don't know who to believe a lot of the time. It probably depends on the specific incident.

One thing from this post that gives me some encouragement is those two kids saying they want to be journalists instead of martyrs. That's amazing, and gives me a bit more hope. One journalist spreading the truth about what happens over there is worth countless martyrs.

i just watched the special features and it says his widow and producers listened to the radio log from his death and they weren't under any attack. basically NOTHING happened to the IDF officer that killed him. it's all on film, they started walking towards an APC waving a white flag wearing their vests and helmets that said TV, right after 1 of them shouts "hello, we are british journalists" 3 or so shots are fired at them.

the documentary also said a lot of the soldiers in the bad areas are volunteers and "professional fighters" which i take it means mercenary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Mill ... lmmaker%29

James Henry Dominic Miller (18 December 1968 - 2 May 2003) was a Welsh cameraman, producer, and director, and recipient of numerous awards, including five Emmy Awards. He often worked with Saira Shah with whom he founded and operated an independent production company called Frostbite Productions in 2001. He was killed by a single shot fired by a soldier from the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) on 2 May 2003 while filming a documentary in Rafah.[1] The soldier who shot him was identified in the press as Captain Hib al-Heib.[2]

The Israeli Military Police investigation into Miller's death closed on 9 March 2005 with an announcement that the soldier suspected of firing the shot would not be indicted as they could not establish that his shot was responsible, though he would be disciplined for violating the rules of engagement and for changing his account of the incident.[3] On 6 April 2006, the inquest jury at St Pancras Coroner's Court in London returned a verdict of unlawful killing, finding that Miller had been "murdered."[1] After meetings with the Miller family, the Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, sent a formal request to his Israeli counterpart in June 2007 for prosecution proceedings to be enacted within six weeks against the soldier responsible for firing the shot.[4] As of August 2007, prosecution proceedings have yet to be enacted.

Inquest

The inquest into Miller's death opened at St Pancras Coroner's Court in London on 3 April 2006.

Giving evidence at the inquest, Miller's wife Sophy named the Israeli soldier who shot her husband as First Lieutenant Haib from the Bedouin Desert Reconnaissance Battalion, who was commanding a unit at the time of the killing on 2 May 2003.[22] She said that the IDF had given out misleading information from the moment her husband was shot, and that Lt. Haib had given six testimonies, all of which were conflicting.[22] Despite advice from the Israeli Military Advocate General that he be disciplined for breaching the rules of engagement, illegal use of weapons and misconduct during the investigation, he was acquitted by Brigadier General Guy Tzur, the head of the army's Southern Command.[22]

Footage of Miller’s death was shown to an unnamed Israeli soldier who was quoted as saying that members of the IDF should not fire unless they felt they were under threat. He was quoted as saying: "There is no chance that it was an accident - the soldier could clearly see him, it was a perfect shot. I do not know what to say, it looks like murder, it looks like he wants to kill him."[23]

The court heard that an autopsy proved that Miller died from a "classic sniper's shot", and that the bullet was consistent with that used by the IDF.[24] Independent investigator Chris Cobb-Smith, who had previously served in the British Army and as an Iraq weapons inspector, found there was no way the soldier fired by accident. He told the court, "This was calculated and cold-blooded murder, without a shadow of a doubt."[25] He added, "These shots were not fired by a soldier who was frightened, not fired by a soldier facing incoming fire - these were slow, deliberate, calculated and aimed shots ... It is a soldier aiming and firing deliberately. He should not have been firing anywhere near a lit building, anywhere near where he knew there were women, children or foreign journalists."[23]

Daniel Edge, Miller's assistant producer, said Israeli soldiers put pressure on him to say that the shot came from Palestinians. He told the inquest: "They personally tried to get me to say the sentence 'James could have been shot by a Palestinian', which I refused to say."[24]

On April 6, 2006, the jury returned a verdict of unlawful killing, finding that he had been "murdered".[1] Miller's family asked that the British government ensure his killer is prosecuted, accusing the Israeli authorities of "an abject failure to uphold the fundamental and unequivocal standards of international humanitarian and human rights law."[1]

yosi

Pepe Silvia wrote:

rebornFixer wrote:

The problem with figuring out incidents like the James Miller shooting is that its impossible to truly know the circumstances going on at the time. Do I think that IDF troops knowingly shoot non-combatants? I do, at least in some of these incidents. On the other hand, human rights groups have recently been taking Hamas to task for hiding behind non-combatants while firing at IDF troops (among other so-called war crimes). How many people get used as human shields, by both sides? Journalists get caught in the crossfire, too. Every single time things like this happen, one side says it was an accident while the other says it was cold-blooded murder. I don't know who to believe a lot of the time. It probably depends on the specific incident.

One thing from this post that gives me some encouragement is those two kids saying they want to be journalists instead of martyrs. That's amazing, and gives me a bit more hope. One journalist spreading the truth about what happens over there is worth countless martyrs.

i just watched the special features and it says his widow and producers listened to the radio log from his death and they weren't under any attack. basically NOTHING happened to the IDF officer that killed him. it's all on film, they started walking towards an APC waving a white flag wearing their vests and helmets that said TV, right after 1 of them shouts "hello, we are british journalists" 3 or so shots are fired at them.

the documentary also said a lot of the soldiers in the bad areas are volunteers and "professional fighters" which i take it means mercenary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Mill ... lmmaker%29

James Henry Dominic Miller (18 December 1968 - 2 May 2003) was a Welsh cameraman, producer, and director, and recipient of numerous awards, including five Emmy Awards. He often worked with Saira Shah with whom he founded and operated an independent production company called Frostbite Productions in 2001. He was killed by a single shot fired by a soldier from the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) on 2 May 2003 while filming a documentary in Rafah.[1] The soldier who shot him was identified in the press as Captain Hib al-Heib.[2]

The Israeli Military Police investigation into Miller's death closed on 9 March 2005 with an announcement that the soldier suspected of firing the shot would not be indicted as they could not establish that his shot was responsible, though he would be disciplined for violating the rules of engagement and for changing his account of the incident.[3] On 6 April 2006, the inquest jury at St Pancras Coroner's Court in London returned a verdict of unlawful killing, finding that Miller had been "murdered."[1] After meetings with the Miller family, the Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, sent a formal request to his Israeli counterpart in June 2007 for prosecution proceedings to be enacted within six weeks against the soldier responsible for firing the shot.[4] As of August 2007, prosecution proceedings have yet to be enacted.

Inquest

The inquest into Miller's death opened at St Pancras Coroner's Court in London on 3 April 2006.

Giving evidence at the inquest, Miller's wife Sophy named the Israeli soldier who shot her husband as First Lieutenant Haib from the Bedouin Desert Reconnaissance Battalion, who was commanding a unit at the time of the killing on 2 May 2003.[22] She said that the IDF had given out misleading information from the moment her husband was shot, and that Lt. Haib had given six testimonies, all of which were conflicting.[22] Despite advice from the Israeli Military Advocate General that he be disciplined for breaching the rules of engagement, illegal use of weapons and misconduct during the investigation, he was acquitted by Brigadier General Guy Tzur, the head of the army's Southern Command.[22]

Footage of Miller’s death was shown to an unnamed Israeli soldier who was quoted as saying that members of the IDF should not fire unless they felt they were under threat. He was quoted as saying: "There is no chance that it was an accident - the soldier could clearly see him, it was a perfect shot. I do not know what to say, it looks like murder, it looks like he wants to kill him."[23]

The court heard that an autopsy proved that Miller died from a "classic sniper's shot", and that the bullet was consistent with that used by the IDF.[24] Independent investigator Chris Cobb-Smith, who had previously served in the British Army and as an Iraq weapons inspector, found there was no way the soldier fired by accident. He told the court, "This was calculated and cold-blooded murder, without a shadow of a doubt."[25] He added, "These shots were not fired by a soldier who was frightened, not fired by a soldier facing incoming fire - these were slow, deliberate, calculated and aimed shots ... It is a soldier aiming and firing deliberately. He should not have been firing anywhere near a lit building, anywhere near where he knew there were women, children or foreign journalists."[23]

Daniel Edge, Miller's assistant producer, said Israeli soldiers put pressure on him to say that the shot came from Palestinians. He told the inquest: "They personally tried to get me to say the sentence 'James could have been shot by a Palestinian', which I refused to say."[24]

On April 6, 2006, the jury returned a verdict of unlawful killing, finding that he had been "murdered".[1] Miller's family asked that the British government ensure his killer is prosecuted, accusing the Israeli authorities of "an abject failure to uphold the fundamental and unequivocal standards of international humanitarian and human rights law."[1]

Definitely not a mercenary. Israel doesn't use them. Probably what is meant is that the soldier in question volunteered to continue serving in the IDF as a career soldier once his mandatory 3 years of service was finished.

Brisk.

does anyone know what actually is going on in the middle east? :?

Pepe Silvia

wait, not only did nothing happen to the IDF officer that killed James Miller, leaving a widow and 2 fatherless kids, BUT HE GOT A PROMOTION??????

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... -Gaza.html

Mr Miller was documenting the lives of Palestinian children in a refugee camp in Rafah, Gaza, when he was shot at night by an Israeli soldier.

He had been carrying a white flag and was trying to ask the troops if it was safe to leave the area when he was shot in the neck.

The soldier who killed Mr Miller, Lieutenant Hib al-Heib, was cleared by an army inquiry and later promoted to captain.

also found this, i guess we DO know what happened that night, afterall....unless those crafty Palestinians use rockets that don't make a sound even when they explode, as the official story is Miller was killed by a Palestinians in the crossfire of a battle and it's his fault for being in the middle of it

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2007/au ... dia.israel

The new information sought by the Israeli authorities relates to expert analysis conducted on behalf of the Metropolitan police using footage from the scene Mr Miller's death, taken by a crew from Associated Press Television News.

That evidence, produced from a report for the Metropolitan police earlier this summer, indicated that the shots that night in Gaza in May 2003 came only from the direction of an Israeli armoured vehicle, contradicting Israel's insistence that Mr Miller was caught in crossfire.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 199243.ece

The warning follows new evidence from an inquiry commissioned by Scotland Yard which has shown that the bullet that killed Miller came from al-Heib’s armoured personnel carrier (APC).

His death was captured on video along with seven shots. The soundtrack of that footage was key to the expert evidence commissioned by Scotland Yard proving that all seven shots came from al-Heib’s APC.

The Israeli authorities accept there are grounds to suspect that al-Heib shot Miller, but insist there is insufficient evidence to prove he was responsible. As a result, they have refused to prosecute him and stalled on paying any compensation to Miller’s widow Sophy and their children, Alexander, 7, and Lottie, 4.

they later settled out of court

he was shot from the front and yet the IDF lied and said

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/middle_east/2999277.stm

Initial findings from an Israeli Defence Forces investigation into the affair indicate that the correspondent was shot in the back, with sources suggesting that he may have been hit by Palestinian gunfire.

The Israeli army said it had returned fire after being attacked by rocket-propelled grenades and expressed "sorrow at a civilian death".

But a spokesman added: "It must be stressed a cameraman who knowingly enters a combat zone, especially at night, endangers himself."

all of that a fucking lie. there was no grenade attack or crossfire

not to mention the guy that killed him changed his story 6 times.... :roll: