economist: Capitalism brings immense suffering to the world

Jeanwah

Capitalism brings immense suffering to the world and needs to be overthrown that is according to political economist and author Raymond Lotta from New York. He told RT he thinks a revolution is coming.

http://www.rebelnews.org/politics/ameri ... -economist

polaris_x

if the poor and exploited rioted - they will just be considered terrorists or an extremist group ... too many people reap the benefits of capitalism to truly care about those that suffer due to it ..

he still stands

Actually I refer to our current system as CRACKANOMICS: Getting every dime out of a 4-block city radius so that a Wall Street trophy wife can get her pimped-out Escalade.

WaveCameCrashin

How can anybody even listen to this guy. If capitalism is so bad then why is he still living here. And why isn't this journalist challenging this guy? I guess communist dictators are'nt corrupt either :roll: . He and other people like him can leave anytime they want. No one is stopping you. Sure there are companies that have abused capitalism and they should be dealt with,and most have. But to get rid of FREE ENTERPRISE and exchange it for COMMUNISIM is ABSURD. Free Enterprise and CAPITALISM is why so many people are coming to this country. They are in search of a better life for them and their families. Think about all the immigrants the came here through Ellis Island in the early 1900's,and all the immigrants that are coming through our southern boarders. Why You think they came here ? It's not because the wanted communism or some other form of it that's for sure.

There are so many programs for people that are poor that can help people get on their feet and do something with their lives. There is a story about a college grad who wanted to see if the american dream was still possible because everybody like this guy was telling him that it wasn't. So what he did was he took a bus from somewhere ( I cant remember ) to charleston SC. He had about $15 in his pocket and was living at the crisis shelter. Got a job with a moving company,saved enough money to get his own place, eventually he got his own truck. ect. ect. The point is that it is possible if you want it bad enough
I will see if I can find a link to this story.

Commy

prfctlefts wrote:

How can anybody even listen to this guy. If capitalism is so bad then why is he still living here. And why isn't this journalist challenging this guy? I guess communist dictators are'nt corrupt either :roll: . He and other people like him can leave anytime they want. No one is stopping you. Sure there are companies that have abused capitalism and they should be dealt with,and most have. But to get rid of FREE ENTERPRISE and exchange it for COMMUNISIM is ABSURD. Free Enterprise and CAPITALISM is why so many people are coming to this country. They are in search of a better life for them and their families. Think about all the immigrants the came here through Ellis Island in the early 1900's,and all the immigrants that are coming through our southern boarders. Why You think they came here ? It's not because the wanted communism or some other form of it that's for sure.

There are so many programs for people that are poor that can help people get on their feet and do something with their lives. There is a story about a college grad who wanted to see if the american dream was still possible because everybody like this guy was telling him that it wasn't. So what he did was he took a bus from somewhere ( I cant remember ) to charleston SC. He had about $15 in his pocket and was living at the crisis shelter. Got a job with a moving company,saved enough money to get his own place, eventually he got his own truck. ect. ect. The point is that it is possible if you want it bad enough
I will see if I can find a link to this story.

Empire, spread through US violence-includes almost every corner of the globe. notice the few remaining enemies are teh few that don't subscirbe to the capitalist doctrine. Iran? N Korea? Syria....the few enemies are outside the global framework established through Washington violence, hence their mark as targets. China is willingly participating, enough to exempt it from washongton's eye, for now.

but the US has a monopoly on violence, in the world arena, and it has been using that to establish a world order based on the capitalist ethos. and that's been proven, tha'ts fairly obvious. to escape you would need to travel to Iran, or North Korea, very few places exist in this world that are free from the capitalist empire.

WaveCameCrashin

Commy wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

How can anybody even listen to this guy. If capitalism is so bad then why is he still living here. And why isn't this journalist challenging this guy? I guess communist dictators are'nt corrupt either :roll: . He and other people like him can leave anytime they want. No one is stopping you. Sure there are companies that have abused capitalism and they should be dealt with,and most have. But to get rid of FREE ENTERPRISE and exchange it for COMMUNISIM is ABSURD. Free Enterprise and CAPITALISM is why so many people are coming to this country. They are in search of a better life for them and their families. Think about all the immigrants the came here through Ellis Island in the early 1900's,and all the immigrants that are coming through our southern boarders. Why You think they came here ? It's not because the wanted communism or some other form of it that's for sure.

There are so many programs for people that are poor that can help people get on their feet and do something with their lives. There is a story about a college grad who wanted to see if the american dream was still possible because everybody like this guy was telling him that it wasn't. So what he did was he took a bus from somewhere ( I cant remember ) to charleston SC. He had about $15 in his pocket and was living at the crisis shelter. Got a job with a moving company,saved enough money to get his own place, eventually he got his own truck. ect. ect. The point is that it is possible if you want it bad enough
I will see if I can find a link to this story.

Empire, spread through US violence-includes almost every corner of the globe. notice the few remaining enemies are teh few that don't subscirbe to the capitalist doctrine. Iran? N Korea? Syria....the few enemies are outside the global framework established through Washington violence, hence their mark as targets. China is willingly participating, enough to exempt it from washongton's eye, for now.

but the US has a monopoly on violence, in the world arena, and it has been using that to establish a world order based on the capitalist ethos. and that's been proven, tha'ts fairly obvious. to escape you would need to travel to Iran, or North Korea, very few places exist in this world that are free from the capitalist empire.

We aren't the enemy Commy regardless of what you might think. If you want to debate Iraq we can,but I truly believe we are a force of good and we only want to help people. Maybe Im naive,but it's what I believe and
if it's so great in those other countries and america sucks then leave dude. I don't want you to,but nobodys stopping you. Look what's going on Iran right now . The people are uprising becaues they want their freedom. North Korea is a shit hole and they actually have work camps for people that disrespect or speak out against the GOV. Is that what you want ?

Commy

prfctlefts wrote:

Commy wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

How can anybody even listen to this guy. If capitalism is so bad then why is he still living here. And why isn't this journalist challenging this guy? I guess communist dictators are'nt corrupt either :roll: . He and other people like him can leave anytime they want. No one is stopping you. Sure there are companies that have abused capitalism and they should be dealt with,and most have. But to get rid of FREE ENTERPRISE and exchange it for COMMUNISIM is ABSURD. Free Enterprise and CAPITALISM is why so many people are coming to this country. They are in search of a better life for them and their families. Think about all the immigrants the came here through Ellis Island in the early 1900's,and all the immigrants that are coming through our southern boarders. Why You think they came here ? It's not because the wanted communism or some other form of it that's for sure.

There are so many programs for people that are poor that can help people get on their feet and do something with their lives. There is a story about a college grad who wanted to see if the american dream was still possible because everybody like this guy was telling him that it wasn't. So what he did was he took a bus from somewhere ( I cant remember ) to charleston SC. He had about $15 in his pocket and was living at the crisis shelter. Got a job with a moving company,saved enough money to get his own place, eventually he got his own truck. ect. ect. The point is that it is possible if you want it bad enough
I will see if I can find a link to this story.

Empire, spread through US violence-includes almost every corner of the globe. notice the few remaining enemies are teh few that don't subscirbe to the capitalist doctrine. Iran? N Korea? Syria....the few enemies are outside the global framework established through Washington violence, hence their mark as targets. China is willingly participating, enough to exempt it from washongton's eye, for now.

but the US has a monopoly on violence, in the world arena, and it has been using that to establish a world order based on the capitalist ethos. and that's been proven, tha'ts fairly obvious. to escape you would need to travel to Iran, or North Korea, very few places exist in this world that are free from the capitalist empire.

Well if it's so great in those other countries and america sucks then leave dude . Nobodys stopping you. Look what's going on Iran right now . The people are uprising becaues they want their freedom. North Korea is a shit hole and they actually have work camps for people that disrespect or speak out against the GOV. Is that what you want ?

i've actually said nothing about my personal opinion.

polaris_x

prfctlefts wrote:

We aren't the enemy Commy regardless of what you might think. If you want to debate Iraq we can,but I truly believe we are a force of good and we only want to help people. Maybe Im naive,but it's what I believe and

do you believe that because of facts or because it is what you want to believe?

WaveCameCrashin

There are many places in the world that dont have capitilism not just the three you listed.

WaveCameCrashin

polaris_x wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

We aren't the enemy Commy regardless of what you might think. If you want to debate Iraq we can,but I truly believe we are a force of good and we only want to help people. Maybe Im naive,but it's what I believe and

do you believe that because of facts or because it is what you want to believe?

Look we have made mistakes no doubt but Im saying that we have always made an attempt to right our wrongs.

he still stands

I'm getting a headache reading about Capitalism and it's virtues, blemishes, etc. I always go back to these definitions and distinctions by a very smart man. RIP RAW.

FREE MARKET: That condition of society in which all economic transactions result from voluntary choice without coercion.
THE STATE: That institution which interferes with the Free Market through the direct exercise of coercion or the granting of privileges (backed by coercion).
TAX: That form of coercion or interference with the Free Market in which the State collects tribute (the tax), allowing it to hire armed forces to practice coercion in defense of privilege, and also to engage in such wars, adventures, experiments, "reforms", etc., as it pleases, not at its own cost, but at the cost of "its" subjects.
PRIVILEGE: From the Latin privi, private, and lege, law. An advantage granted by the State and protected by its powers of coercion. A law for private benefit.
USURY: That form of privilege or interference with the Free Market in which one State-supported group monopolizes the coinage and thereby takes tribute (interest), direct or indirect, on all or most economic transactions.
LANDLORDISM: That form of privilege or interference with the Free Market in which one State-supported group "owns" the land and thereby takes tribute (rent) from those who live, work, or produce on the land.
TARRIFF: That form of privilege or interference with the Free Market in which commodities produced outside the State are not allowed to compete equally with those produced inside the State.
CAPITALISM: That organization of society, incorporating elements of tax, usury, landlordism, and tariff, which thus denies the Free Market while pretending to exemplify it.
CONSERVATISM: That school of capitalist philosophy which claims allegiance to the Free Market while actually supporting usury, landlordism, tariff, and sometimes taxation.
LIBERALISM: That school of capitalist philosophy which attempts to correct the injustices of capitalism by adding new laws to the existing laws. Each time conservatives pass a law creating privilege, liberals pass another law modifying privilege, leading conservatives to pass a more subtle law recreating privilege, etc., until "everything not forbidden is compulsory" and "everything not compulsory is forbidden".
SOCIALISM: The attempted abolition of all privilege by restoring power entirely to the coercive agent behind privilege, the State, thereby converting capitalist oligarchy into Statist monopoly. Whitewashing a wall by painting it black.
ANARCHISM: That organization of society in which the Free Market operates freely, without taxes, usury, landlordism, tariffs, or other forms of coercion or privilege. "Right" anarchists predict that in the Free Market people would voluntarily choose to compete more often than to cooperate; "left" anarchists predict that in the Free Market people would voluntarily choose to cooperate more often than to compete.

Robert Anton Wilson, The Illuminatus! Trilogy (New York: Dell, 1975) pp. 622-23

Commy

he still stands wrote:

I'm getting a headache reading about Capitalism and it's virtues, blemishes, etc. I always go back to these definitions and distinctions by a very smart man. RIP RAW.

FREE MARKET: That condition of society in which all economic transactions result from voluntary choice without coercion.
THE STATE: That institution which interferes with the Free Market through the direct exercise of coercion or the granting of privileges (backed by coercion).
TAX: That form of coercion or interference with the Free Market in which the State collects tribute (the tax), allowing it to hire armed forces to practice coercion in defense of privilege, and also to engage in such wars, adventures, experiments, "reforms", etc., as it pleases, not at its own cost, but at the cost of "its" subjects.
PRIVILEGE: From the Latin privi, private, and lege, law. An advantage granted by the State and protected by its powers of coercion. A law for private benefit.
USURY: That form of privilege or interference with the Free Market in which one State-supported group monopolizes the coinage and thereby takes tribute (interest), direct or indirect, on all or most economic transactions.
LANDLORDISM: That form of privilege or interference with the Free Market in which one State-supported group "owns" the land and thereby takes tribute (rent) from those who live, work, or produce on the land.
TARRIFF: That form of privilege or interference with the Free Market in which commodities produced outside the State are not allowed to compete equally with those produced inside the State.
CAPITALISM: That organization of society, incorporating elements of tax, usury, landlordism, and tariff, which thus denies the Free Market while pretending to exemplify it.
CONSERVATISM: That school of capitalist philosophy which claims allegiance to the Free Market while actually supporting usury, landlordism, tariff, and sometimes taxation.
LIBERALISM: That school of capitalist philosophy which attempts to correct the injustices of capitalism by adding new laws to the existing laws. Each time conservatives pass a law creating privilege, liberals pass another law modifying privilege, leading conservatives to pass a more subtle law recreating privilege, etc., until "everything not forbidden is compulsory" and "everything not compulsory is forbidden".
SOCIALISM: The attempted abolition of all privilege by restoring power entirely to the coercive agent behind privilege, the State, thereby converting capitalist oligarchy into Statist monopoly. Whitewashing a wall by painting it black.
ANARCHISM: That organization of society in which the Free Market operates freely, without taxes, usury, landlordism, tariffs, or other forms of coercion or privilege. "Right" anarchists predict that in the Free Market people would voluntarily choose to compete more often than to cooperate; "left" anarchists predict that in the Free Market people would voluntarily choose to cooperate more often than to compete.

Robert Anton Wilson, The Illuminatus! Trilogy (New York: Dell, 1975) pp. 622-23

an anarchist maybe? shouldn't labor benifit the laborers?

polaris_x

prfctlefts wrote:

Look we have made mistakes no doubt but Im saying that we have always made an attempt to right our wrongs.

so ... your belief is based on facts?

he still stands

Commy wrote:

an anarchist maybe? shouldn't labor benifit the laborers?

I call myself a "sympathetic libertarian" and yes... I made that up myself and am proud of it. hehe

Labor should benefit the laborer and his family.

....................

Our current economy only works if labor is free to move as it pleases. (Adam Smith) Even then I don't know if it is worth all this effort for a "consumer surplus."

Commy

he still stands wrote:

Commy wrote:

an anarchist maybe? shouldn't labor benifit the laborers?

I call myself a "sympathetic libertarian" and yes... I made that up myself and am proud of it. hehe

Labor should benefit the laborer and his family.

....................

Our current economy only works if labor is free to move as it pleases. (Adam Smith) Even then I don't know if it is worth all this effort for a "consumer surplus."

sympathetice libertarian, or as we call it libertarian socialist. capitalism, based on greed and selfishness, opposed to sociliasm, based on compassion and kindness. i choose the latter.

Jeanwah

Ok, who here actually watched the interview? It's actually very interesting.

Jeanwah

prfctlefts wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

We aren't the enemy Commy regardless of what you might think. If you want to debate Iraq we can,but I truly believe we are a force of good and we only want to help people. Maybe Im naive,but it's what I believe and

do you believe that because of facts or because it is what you want to believe?

Look we have made mistakes no doubt but Im saying that we have always made an attempt to right our wrongs.

I think you have a rather romantic look at thing, prfctlefts. It's plain and simply right in front of our faces, that money corrupts. Once money becomes an issue with people, empathy and wanting to help the human race goes right out the door. Capitalism breeds greed.

vedderman71

Jeanwah you bring up a Great point; but why do most on here believe that capitalism must always = greed?
Why can't we co-exsist in a giving sharing capitalistic society? In Cent Indiana Lilly has been one of the more profitable and also one of the bigger employers. Yet the Lilly Endowment funds many good causes especially giving to the universities through out Indiana.

I always tell my friends as I head to the fields to farm that "I gotta go feed the world!"
Why is it so wrong to get paid for a hard days work, and in turn I give to my church, food pantries and support our local 4-H and FFA? And I'm Not saying "look at me"...I know plenty local businesses that support our community.

I will be updating my thread on Food Inc tonight...much more there to follow...

Commy

vedderman71 wrote:

Jeanwah you bring up a Great point; but why do most on here believe that capitalism

capitalism is based on greed. and selfishness. it encourages those traits.

JR8805

I believe that you can have a moral or responsible capitalism that seeks balance for the greater good--not the greater good of solely corporations, but the greater good of the people it is supposed to serve. What we have now here in the US is not this, it's the kind of thing that grows Bernie Madoffs and lies to us by pointing to a success for the system and telling us, "This could be you, too." People support exploitative capitalism because of an illusion that they can be millionaires...that anyone can be one. People like Eddie Vedder are the Cinderellas of our capitalist system...if it could happen for them...I must be next! Seriously, though, with our economy tanking, the elite are owning more of everything while the poor and middle are owning ever less. We will soon be a second world economy with just two major classes--haves and have nots. As it is, the vast majority of young people these days are wage slaves, and the rest of us that have a little something have just that...a *little* something. One good crisis, and it's gone...and then you're just a hop, skip and jump to homeless.

craigb

prfctlefts wrote:

How can anybody even listen to this guy. If capitalism is so bad then why is he still living here. And why isn't this journalist challenging this guy? I guess communist dictators are'nt corrupt either :roll: . He and other people like him can leave anytime they want. No one is stopping you. Sure there are companies that have abused capitalism and they should be dealt with,and most have. But to get rid of FREE ENTERPRISE and exchange it for COMMUNISIM is ABSURD. Free Enterprise and CAPITALISM is why so many people are coming to this country. They are in search of a better life for them and their families. Think about all the immigrants the came here through Ellis Island in the early 1900's,and all the immigrants that are coming through our southern boarders. Why You think they came here ? It's not because the wanted communism or some other form of it that's for sure.

There are so many programs for people that are poor that can help people get on their feet and do something with their lives. There is a story about a college grad who wanted to see if the american dream was still possible because everybody like this guy was telling him that it wasn't. So what he did was he took a bus from somewhere ( I cant remember ) to charleston SC. He had about $15 in his pocket and was living at the crisis shelter. Got a job with a moving company,saved enough money to get his own place, eventually he got his own truck. ect. ect. The point is that it is possible if you want it bad enough
I will see if I can find a link to this story.

Glad to hear this from another PJ fan.

TravisTheSky

Capitalism is not evil. It's the current day Corporatism that is bankrupting us.

When America was a land of small businesses, we were very prosperous. But giant megacorporations are way too powerful. The 'little guy' can't compete.

g under p

Commy wrote:

vedderman71 wrote:

Jeanwah you bring up a Great point; but why do most on here believe that capitalism

capitalism is based on greed. and selfishness. it encourages those traits.

Jeanwah wrote:

I think you have a rather romantic look at thing, prfctlefts. It's plain and simply right in front of our faces, that money corrupts. Once money becomes an issue with people, empathy and wanting to help the human race goes right out the door. Capitalism breeds greed.

According to Gordan Gekko....Greed IS good, Greed is right...

Peace

Starfall

It's not capitalism per se that's the problem - it's unregulated,laissez faire, predatory captialism that's the problem.

Before FDR came to office, every few decades or so, almost like clockwork, we had boom and bust cycles, marked by rampant speculation, greed, which resulted in a huge economic bubble that eventualy burst, causing a massive recession. Then it would start all over again.

Once FDR put the New Deal regulations in place, all of that stopped. We then went through a period of rapid, robust economic expansion post World War II to 1980, and more importantly, we did not have a single massive economic collapse.

Until Reagan took office, and from then on, deregulation became the buzzword, and we found the New Deal regulations systematically repealed, or ignored.

The solution is simple - restore common sense regulations.

For starters, let's stop the organized Wall Street Crime syndicate from playing roulette with our money. Pull the US out of the WTO and NAFTA and repeal all the so called "free trade agreements" that have funnelled our jobs and our pensions overseas, and have caused equal havoc to the economies of other countries. Break up the "too big to fail companies" as required by the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. Restore our manufacturing sector and bring back the union jobs that were the backbone of the middle class. End the revolving door between the private sector and government, so that people like DIck Cheney aren't able to leave the CEO position of Halliburton, become VP, enact rules and no-bid contracts to favor his old company, then go back into the private sector again peddling influence - he just started a lobbying group with his daughter Liz Cheney.

I could go on, but I'm sure you all get the point.

polaris_x

Starfall wrote:

It's not capitalism per se that's the problem - it's unregulated,laissez faire, predatory captialism that's the problem.

Before FDR came to office, every few decades or so, almost like clockwork, we had boom and bust cycles, marked by rampant speculation, greed, which resulted in a huge economic bubble that eventualy burst, causing a massive recession. Then it would start all over again.

Once FDR put the New Deal regulations in place, all of that stopped. We then went through a period of rapid, robust economic expansion post World War II to 1980, and more importantly, we did not have a single massive economic collapse.

Until Reagan took office, and from then on, deregulation became the buzzword, and we found the New Deal regulations systematically repealed, or ignored.

The solution is simple - restore common sense regulations.

For starters, let's stop the organized Wall Street Crime syndicate from playing roulette with our money. Pull the US out of the WTO and NAFTA and repeal all the so called "free trade agreements" that have funnelled our jobs and our pensions overseas, and have caused equal havoc to the economies of other countries. Break up the "too big to fail companies" as required by the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. Restore our manufacturing sector and bring back the union jobs that were the backbone of the middle class. End the revolving door between the private sector and government, so that people like DIck Cheney aren't able to leave the CEO position of Halliburton, become VP, enact rules and no-bid contracts to favor his old company, then go back into the private sector again peddling influence - he just started a lobbying group with his daughter Liz Cheney.

I could go on, but I'm sure you all get the point.

and there it is ... seems simple ... but good luck getting through to the "people" ... all they see is right/left; dem/rep; liberal/conservative ...

Jeanwah

polaris_x wrote:

Starfall wrote:

It's not capitalism per se that's the problem - it's unregulated,laissez faire, predatory captialism that's the problem.

Before FDR came to office, every few decades or so, almost like clockwork, we had boom and bust cycles, marked by rampant speculation, greed, which resulted in a huge economic bubble that eventualy burst, causing a massive recession. Then it would start all over again.

Once FDR put the New Deal regulations in place, all of that stopped. We then went through a period of rapid, robust economic expansion post World War II to 1980, and more importantly, we did not have a single massive economic collapse.

Until Reagan took office, and from then on, deregulation became the buzzword, and we found the New Deal regulations systematically repealed, or ignored.

The solution is simple - restore common sense regulations.

For starters, let's stop the organized Wall Street Crime syndicate from playing roulette with our money. Pull the US out of the WTO and NAFTA and repeal all the so called "free trade agreements" that have funnelled our jobs and our pensions overseas, and have caused equal havoc to the economies of other countries. Break up the "too big to fail companies" as required by the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. Restore our manufacturing sector and bring back the union jobs that were the backbone of the middle class. End the revolving door between the private sector and government, so that people like DIck Cheney aren't able to leave the CEO position of Halliburton, become VP, enact rules and no-bid contracts to favor his old company, then go back into the private sector again peddling influence - he just started a lobbying group with his daughter Liz Cheney.

I could go on, but I'm sure you all get the point.

and there it is ... seems simple ... but good luck getting through to the "people" ... all they see is right/left; dem/rep; liberal/conservative ...

But don't you know polaris...having people distracted with details is the key to ignoring the big picture...;)

Good post, Starfall.