Cap and Trade
polaris_x
Posts: 13,559
http://www.storyofstuff.com/capandtrade/
****************
this is a great video ... i think this video will also appeal to our libertarian tax-averse friends on this board ... as i've been saying in the other threads - your fears associated with the cap and trade system are well founded - just don't buy into the myth that global climate change is not man-made ... focus on the solutions ..
****************
this is a great video ... i think this video will also appeal to our libertarian tax-averse friends on this board ... as i've been saying in the other threads - your fears associated with the cap and trade system are well founded - just don't buy into the myth that global climate change is not man-made ... focus on the solutions ..
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
I'm not going to argue whether mmgw is real, because I think you and I simply have to agree to disagree, and I'll leave it at that. I respect your stance completely. The point we both agree on however, is that we both want to live in a clean and healthy environment.
I just wanted to know what you think about converting over to nuclear energy from our current coal based systems?
Somewhere towards the end, Ms. Leonard mentions the idea I've mentioned many times before: Stop subsidizing oil. If you do this, you essentially 'legalize' clean energy as valid competition for oil.
Just start there and do nothing else, for now. You don't want world leaders coming together and writing new laws for all of us to follow that are just ultimately going to be hijacked and line the pockets of Goldman Sach's, etc...
For the record, most of us believe that pollution is contributing to climate change-- whether it is the primary factor or not, is debatable, seeing as how this earth has undergone severe changes in climate ever since its creation. What you won't see however, is our crowd drumming up awareness of this problem when the solutions being proposed are nowhere near the right answer, but are being touted as the ONLY answer.
It is for this reason alone that the rest of the Libertarian crowd writes off man-made global warming as a farce. As this video shows, it is obviously in the interests of the cartel corporations that run the world to hype this problem to the maximum, effectively advertise it, so they can sell it to everyone. They're damn good at it, too.
Again, one step at a time. Stop giving oil the special benefits of a subsidized handout, and then take it from there. You don't need 1,200 pages of legislation to do it, either.
The EPA has authority under federal law only over waters that are used for shipping or commerce, or waterways that are directly adjacent.
The Clean Water Act, passed in 1972, defined “navigable waters” only as “the waters of the United States.” Courts and the EPA have filled in the specifics over the years to include wetlands with any “hydrological connection” to commercially traveled waterways.
This is a violation of our rights under The BIll Of Rights as private property owners.
i don't support nuclear energy as it's far too expensive and similar to oil is heavily subsidized ... wind is the cheapest form of new energy and our focus should be on renewables ... as well as a conservation strategy - we have the technology right now (heck a decade ago) to tackle climate change and our environment ...
if you've read any of my posts on this and the old forum - you would see that I have been railing against the oil subsidies for years ... it is also an indication of how powerful the oil lobby is ... so powerful in fact that they can afford to spend millions of dollars launching propaganda campaigns that many on this board have eaten up ...
climate change is indeed man-made - any rebuttal to that has been addressed in numerous studies including the well used "the earth has undergone severe changes in climate before" ...
i agree with many libertarians in the outright fraud being committed by the feds and gov't - i also believe our gov't are complicit in this fraud ... having said that - i do believe that climate change is something we need to address and that it is the singular most critical issue facing humanity and life on this planet (not to say all life will perish if we don't - just that it will be the foundation of significant suffering)
i agree in sorts as the EPA acts strictly on the whims of whoever heads that agency ... when Bush was in power - he placed industry friendly head and the EPA was essentially useless in defending anything about the environment ...
having said that - the clean air act was a significant piece of legislation that should have propelled the US into a more environmentally conscious country ... but unfortunately politiking got in the way ...
as for nuclear i am against that as well. we should focus on non polluting alternatives or at least ones cleaner than oil and nuclear (which we have no place to store the waste, i read a report from some governmental agency 2 or more years ago saying Yucca Mountain is porous and waste has been leaking so it can't be a permanent solution for storage. i think it may have been the department of energy.
thanks for the link, i look forward to watching it
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
that can be said of any governmental regulatory agency...look at the FDA, USDA....
the problem is there's no accountability for politicians. it's largely our fault because as a country we've pretty much ignored everything, we figure 'i vote, that's all i can do' and don't pay attention until they see campaign ads on tv and then most just go by what the tv and radio ads and talking heads say or which party they are...
who can blame them for having an attitude of 'i can do whatever i want' ??
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I've actually been looking into getting a wind generator for my place since we have quite a bit of land. I realize that most are not sufficient enough to power much, but I have been looking into it. I'm not a paranoid fear monger, but I have this desire to be as self-sufficient as possible (i.e. we grow a lot of our own organic fruit, vegetables, nuts, etc.). It's not about the money savings to me, I just find it fascinating to not rely on anything more than just the basics that we are given. If I can grow my own food, and use the natural wind to help power my home, that is absolutely amazing to me.
Polaris, we probably actually agree a lot more than it appears. I kind of use the same argument when I think about the environment as I do when people question my belief in God. If I believe in God, and I try to live a good life founded on my faith in Him, then what has it really cost me when I die if there's nothing more? Nothing. Same way with the environment, if it turns out nothing we do can stop the changes that people are forecasting, then what have we lost by trying to make our world a cleaner and healthier place to live? Nothing.
hey - you are doing a lot more for the environment than many people who claim to be environmentalists so I commend you on that!
the issue with home power generation is always going to be storage ... batteries are really expensive - your first priority should always be minimizing your need for energy/electricity ... most people would be surprised to know how little energy we truly need ...
good luck with the food growing ... at some point i hope to do exactly the same thing ... i can grow a little bit in my urban space but not enuf to come close to sustaining myself ...
Actually, I've made a mission out of reducing my electricity consumption as much as possible. We had a period of time, a few years ago, where the electricity in my house during the summer averaged around $700 per month. At one point, it was a staggering $1,400 because there was a problem with our AC unit, and it was the middle of August. Even during the winter, we were seeing bills in excess of $400. I live in a fairly big house.
Well, one day I just shut every breaker down, except for the one that controlled the fridge and freezer. I turned each one back on and noted the difference in my meter. Come to find out one of the biggest consumers of electricity was my hot water heater. Anyway, to make a long story short, I spent a few days fine tuning a few things, and it worked. Now my electric bill averages about $300 in the summer and my last bill was $116.
Unless you live in an apartment, you can do some pretty serious growing with just about any size yard if you use hanging buckets for an upside down solution coupled with a few square-foot raised beds. Here's a good example of one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJZogHykMcM There is nothing like making a salad and just going out in your backyard and getting the lettuce and tomatoes for it.
there's little things, too, like not leaving things plugged in that aren't being used. it may be small but they still draw power even if turned off. there's also cheap surge protectors that have a main plug, secondary and always on outlets, so whatever you plug into the secondary plugs have all power cut off if whatever is plugged into the main outlet is turned off and you can't turn them on unless the main is on
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Yep, that's another thing that helped. My next move is to improve the insulation and get new windows. There are some pretty good tax rebates for doing that as well.
get a tankless water heater....i love mine!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankless_w ... ss_heaters
Thanks for the heads up. That is one thing I've wanted to look into. I never really researched them, or knew anyone who owned one, but I'll definitely look into it.
Good job Shawshank! I did a test with unplugging things that didn't need to be plugged in. (it's called phantom energy, btw) Watched my bill from one month to the next (with things like microwave, coffee maker, toaster, etc.) unplugged and it does make a small difference. I know it's just a small difference, but the more aware of the energy your house uses, the bigger cut you'll see in your bill! Some more ideas...insulated curtains in the winter, heating with hot water vs. other methods (pricey to install but awesome to have), energy star appliances, putting plastic over your windows if you have drafts and draft dodgers for exterior doors, reversing your ceiling fans motion, keeping the house in general a couple degrees cooler in the winter and warmer in the summer.
I've been attempting to garden, but my brown thumb wins over every time, unfortunately.
ETA: The real thing to treading lighter, is not just reducing electricity costs, and looking out for ways to save money. The Story of Stuff tells why we have environmental problems to begin with, the root of the problem. It's about our throw-away culture, consuming and discarding. If we just stopped ourselves when we're shopping and ask ourselves if we absolutely need another or whatever it is, we could really save our houses and lives from being over cluttered, the landfills over filled, and the need to satisfy ourselves by buying more stuff. It's an evil cycle.
that was a great video, and I loved story of stuff.
I agree with what Annie said and others on this forum, until the gov't stops subsidizing fossil fuels, we'll never really make any progress. I believe that the ultimate solution will come from people who are not affiliated with money or power whatsoever, as those in power only seek to change things if it makes them more money. The problem with an actual real solution and acting on it, is that the fossil fuel industry has Washington by the balls, that's how big their lobbying power is. If any emission regulations are placed on them by gov't, they'll just pay more money until they get their way. I've read a lot about King Coal, and that's just the way it is. Mountain top removal for coal mining has devastated many regions and have killed mine workers. Think the bigwigs care? Not one bit. If there's a way to drop-kick the fossil fuel industry, only then we can make real change.
yeah ... tankless is definitely the way to go shawshank ... right now you are doing two wasteful things with a hot water tank:
1. you are heating water constantly that many not get used
2. you are heating water to a temperature way hotter than you need it
with a tankless - you set the temperature to however hot you want your showers and so when you take one - you should only be on full hot ... right now - your cooling down water you paid to heat ...
i just find their videos to be so clever in that they take fairly complex things and simplify it
absolutely - i've always said that gov'ts these days are large corporations run by corporations ... without gov't assistance many of them wouldn't make any money ...
as far as the climate crisis - our first priority is to understand we are in one ... secondly, we need to pay the true cost of our consumption ... a poster mentioned the distribution of wealth ... at the end of the day - the third world countries are suffering the consequences of our consumption right now ... many african countries are suffering yet another drought - they can't grow food and starvation is yet again significant ... it's not right
it's a false existence!
We should make all our electricity with nuclear,take all the nuclear waste, put it into rockets, and shoot it into the sun. Problem solved, just like in Superman 4!