Constructive Discussion about Obama

shelley123

I'm just a newby to 10C and usually keep rather quiet but it seems that a good discussion about Obama got rather sideswiped but as someone living way outside the US and in little ol Aussie i am particulary interested in hearing everyone's point of view and getting a good debate/discussion going here. Mainly because I see myself as both an interested international citizen and how domestically the impact of Obama affects us in different ways. Obviously how Americans view him will differ widely from how the rest of the world views him...given his global influence maybe this is as good a place as any to get both a global and domestic perspective of the US President! It would be interesting to compare amongst people who would come here to PJ given the incredible impact their music has around the world. So feel free anyone to offer your opinion, whatever it may be... and lets get a discussion worthy of a forum like this going about one of the worlds most prominent leaders.

Cheers
Shelley

he still stands

Well it is more interesting to see him on the news cause he is sexy and so is his wife, he smokes cigs, and being black obviously makes the stage act more exciting to watch.

Other than that I don't know if there is anything noteworthy or substantially different about him relative to every other US president since the era of Wilsonian Idealism began in 1917 or so.

Pepe Silvia

i didn't vote for him as i think he is just another politician who talks a lot at campaign time (which for him started pretty much right after kerry lost) and gives a lot of empty promises then bends over to special interests and his campaign investors while throwing the people a few scraps here and there.

he has done some good things like the funding for SCHIP and stem cell research but i'm convinced this would've happened no matter which D won. overall he has done very little towards all the promises of hope and change we can believe in. i realize the previous administration fucked a lot of things up and never expected it to be as simple as blinking and wrinkling his nose and everything gets fixed but i see very little to no effort on his part on many things. read my sig, what has he done to end the war in iraq? which bank shall i take that promise of his? i did like when he campaigned he seemed against israel's expansion of their illegal settlements but when the seige on Gaza was going on he had NOTHING to say other than 'there's only 1 president at a time' then why'd he weigh in on other issues before he was sworn in? he did/said nothing when israel kidnapped some human rights workers including some americans (at least politicians in other countries spoke out against their people being locked up) and worst of all in regards to israel was when israel said they wouldn't stop expanding the illegal settlements to start peace talks and seeing hillary clinton pretty much stand up for it. i thought it was bs all the rhetoric obama spoke about iran living up to its international obligations and how they MUST allow the IAEA in but then like 2 weeks later was against the same for israel and promised to keep what they have and are doing secret. i was also disappointed he went back on several campaign promises like renegotiating NAFTA, and all the talk of 'NO MORE SECRECY!!!' then turns around and does the same shit the previous administration did (like when he said if the white house ever met with lobbyists or execs it would be broadcast on the internet and CSPAN so everyone could see what went on and talked about Bush/Cheney having all these secret meetings then he turns around and has secret meetings with health insurance and pharmaceutical lobbyists and execs and like Bush/Cheney fights to prevent who they spoke to from being made public) . i also didn't care for how he had this big meeting on health care reform and had health insurance execs present but didn't invite anyone who supported a single payer system. or when he vowed 'any health care reform MUST have a public option!' and then gives in to the for profit sector and dropped it with nothing in return.

i never thought even if someone i did like and support like Kucinich got elected they'd be able to make all these changes overnight, it's just that i see very little effort on Obama's part.

Commy

i've always said if voting could change the system it would be illegal.



then obama came along and i was caught up in it. i cannot believe i was fooled, but i actually thought he would stand up for the majorty and not cater to the wealthy elite, as presidents do.


but he he didnt. there are still counts of torture going on, people are still subjected to teh patriot act, corporate welfare is at its worst.....and he's murdering thousands of innocent people in a some far away third world country.


same as any other US president, he's just better at marketing.



and i learened my lesson. i don't think you can change the system with a ballot.

shelley123

From the outset I will say that I am a supporter of Barack Obama and had I been born American I would have voted for him. As it is I am Australian and so my opinion is really maybe irrelevant as I am not subject to the ebbs and flows of US politics as directly. However that isnt to say that countries like Australia arent affected by what happens through US domestic/foreign policy. You'd be surprised what influences do flow on to own own economies and government policies especially in terms of treaty obligation and trade/economic policies. Our own committment to Iraq hinged on Aus/US free trade negotiations if I remember correctly and that in turn filtered down to the average Aussie as well. I have a personal investment in keeping a keen eye on the direction the US takes militarily as it affects my family when Australia's leaders decide to follow suit but nevertheless from where I stand, I was deeply moved and inspired by what Obama offered both to the US and to the world. And maybe that is where we come undone a little...shock horror :shock: he is human after all. How much is within his power to change things "on a dime"... what exactly were we all expecting he was going to be able to do? I doubt he will achieve his very fine vision that he spoke so eloquently of in his first term and if lucky enough to get a second shot maybe he might start to see some progress but its as though some kind of iron curtain has come down and the Bush administration is no longer accountable for the mess they left us in and I say "us" because trailing along behind the US like a little puppy dog Australia has followed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Barack Obama is now the only one accountable and that I think he recognises that. I fear that we were all swept up in the first "African American" President euphoria and as significant and amazing and thrilling as that is that hard facts are that it doesnt count for much when you have to negotiate your way out of a war committment that has devasted so many and continues to eat away into this generation of young men and women not just in terms of deaths but in maiming both physically and mentally. I don't doubt for one moment that this must weigh heavy on a man like Obama and before you come thundering down on me...I know its easier for me, I am not as cynical about him because I am not having to carry the load of living under his administration. But I believe it is way too early yet to be abandoning ship and I think he needs two terms of office to achieve just a small measure of the hope and future he promised every American. I don't think I heard him say once that he was going to it overnight, in fact he warned it was a long road ahead. Sitting around with my friends over good glass of wine and a fine table of food we talk about him and each of us think that broadly he has the capacity to do great things domestically for his country but wonder if he has the strength needed for the international stage. We came to a consensus that maybe its the international status of the US President as a world leader, mover and shaker, that is going to tighten a noose around his neck domestically?? Should the US retreat from the international stage and focus more on its domestic issues?? We wonder about that ourselves here for us in Aust as our Prime Minister takes on higher profile internationally. Regardless, Obama offered something far greater than any of his contempories and I still believe in him! Our world becomes a very cynical place and we expect so much from our politicians and are continually let down because we realise in the end that it is all just a game of power amongst those who can swing it the highest. I didnt see that in Obama and I still don't. He is a man as subject to the powers at play as the rest of us and its takes a lot of tenacity and fortitude to out play the power brokers. But I believe in what he stands for and I believe that he will strive as best as he can to bring about the change he spoke of and I am not ready to throw him on the same pile as those who have gone before, especially of the likes of Bush. Politics is a wicked game and the good and decent get gobbled up, strung up and quartered, hung out to dry. I am an idealist, I see the way things should be, not just could be. I see what Obama potentially should achieve if he is indeed still the dreamer of the better future he promised.

Now agree or disagree as you see fit! Its just opinion and YES I am brutally aware that I could be speaking out of turn, not being American, but as an global citizen I think Obama needs time. This isnt going to be easy...don't forget the legacy of Bush!
Cheers
Shelley