over produced?

denverchefdenverchef Posts: 11
edited December 2009 in The Porch
I see so many times people like to say "overproduced" and "too slick" when describing certain albums, Backspacer to be precise....I understand the concept being a musician myself, but i'm wondering what everyone's interpretation is of "over produced"? i mean, what is it you're looking for? garage sound?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • i_lov_iti_lov_it Posts: 4,007
    Yeah I'm trying to GRASP! that 'PHRASE' too! :roll:
  • HeavyHandsHeavyHands Posts: 2,130
    I think in general it refers to the listener perceived over-use of studio techniques, effects, and/or overdubbing to produce a sound that is not consistent with a musician's live performance sound.

    There is a big movement amongst audiophiles to bring attention to an effect referred to as brickwalling sound. As in, that song was brickwalled. Also called the "loudness wars," it has to do with the observation of a song's waveform (a graphic representation of audible frequencies) and how higher end frequencies are lost (or clipped off) when music is improperly (my word) mastered or remastered. Below is a visualization from the wiki page link in the next paragraph.

    Cd_loudness_trend-something.gif

    There are a lot of really interesting articles out there. You could start at the wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_wars) to get an idea and then investigate further. The references section at the bottom of the wiki has some good articles.
    "A lot more people are capable of being big out there that just don't give themselves a chance." -Stone Gossard
  • To me, a complete non-musician, overproduced is means there are lots of instrumentation, sounds, redubs, vocal tracks, etc layered on top of the music so much so that the 5 members of the band could never walk on stage and play the same song with just the 5 them. It's when the producer and sound technicians and whatnot become some of the, if not the, most vital members of the band... like they should be on the stage at a show (although I'd say I prefer Brendan O' on the keys to Boom... but that's a story for a different thread).

    The album Backspacer never struck me as overproduced, but that may be because my first taste was Got Some which is pretty stripped down (in my entirely uneducated, musically stupid, liable to be flamed opinion). First impressions go a long way. Also, my absolute favorite track, Unthought Known, seems pretty simple to me too. Having said that, Speed of Sound was grotesquely overproduced in my mind. I understand they had other songs that were similar to it on the album... in which case, you pick a different song... don't slather that one in layers of molasses and lasers to make it stick out. Please see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2H6L4MmPUo for an example of what Speed of Sound would be if it was a cartoon character in a Raggedy Anne and Andy movie.

    Avocado seems like a heavily produced album to me, thinking back on it, and I do no look back fondly on it for that reason. Not many of the songs translate to the stage.

    Oh... and Ten... the original mix... ugh.
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  • you want an example? listen to the speed of sound demo...then the album version.

    album version = over produced!!

    which means...they added a lot of crap that didn't need to be there! the result is..they fucked up what was a really good song and now it sounds like shit!
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Classic example of being overproduced is "Long and Winding Road", the album version on Let it Be. The Beatles, themselves, hated it.
  • i_lov_iti_lov_it Posts: 4,007
    Yeah this is TRUE!!!
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    the dictionary has defined it as thus:-

    "any album by Bon Jovi"
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • HeavyHandsHeavyHands Posts: 2,130
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Classic example of being overproduced is "Long and Winding Road"...

    Bingo. The classic example. Can't believe I didn't remember it.
    "A lot more people are capable of being big out there that just don't give themselves a chance." -Stone Gossard
  • great examples guys! "The long and winding road" sums it up for me...that example is spot on ...

    You think this is something Mr.Spector was responsible for when creating the Wall of Sound?
  • When I listen to Backspacer, there are several songs and effects where I feel the heavy hand of an outsider to the band. It is like they have added another member to the band who is terrible and doesn't have the same feel for the music that I have grown to love. It is like when I listend to the redone "old" version of State of Love and Trust and there is suddenly some really strange sound effects in it... that don't feel like Pearl Jam.

    With Backspacer there are several songs where I feel like a layer of crap has been added over the top of music I would otherwise be quite content with. I can be following allong pleased with a song like The End and then get slapped my something which sounds very foreign. I'm not opposed to the introduction of things like strings, piano, or fire extinguishers adding to songs when it all sounds and feels right. For the most part, Boom was able to contribute on a record like Riot Act in a way that still felt in tune with the music of Pearl Jam. I can't say the same for Brendan O'Brien when I cringe when strings blare into the song instead of softly introduce themselves, or I hear clap-happy additions to things like The Fixer. Something very alien (meaning foreign in this usage) was added to many of the songs on Backspacer. I'd list glaring a bunch of examples that are glaring to me, but I don't really want to bother to spend the time. I feel that the band has made a poor decision in allowing Brendan to paint all over the top of their work instead of forcing themselves to make music which doesn't want or need that... but rather benefits from a technician's silent hand boosting this or that in subtle ways instead.
  • LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    edited December 2009
    Soulfire42 wrote:
    It is like when I listend to the redone "old" version of State of Love and Trust and there is suddenly some really strange sound effects in it... that don't feel like Pearl Jam.
    They never redid State of Love And Trust. The version on the greatest hits is the version used on film in the Singles movie. They used a different stripped down version for the actual Singles soundtrack.

    Pearl Jam's studio efforts started out very polished and produced, so saying it doesn't sound like them is all relative.

    I happen to like the polished and "over-produced" stuff. If I want to hear them raw, they have hundreds of boots.

    Studio albums should be very produced. That's the point of hiring a producer.

    Their least produced album would have to be Vitalogy. Most produced would have to be Binaural.
    Post edited by LikeAnOcean on
  • GmoneyGmoney Posts: 1,618
    I studied production in undergrad and the best way to understand it by listening to examples. Like crazy said, speed of sound demo to album version is a great example. Another one of the best examples I've found was The Shins albums, from O' Inverted World to Wincing the Night Away... BTW- I don't think Wincing is overproduced by any means, it's one of my favorite albums ever, but you can see a drastic change in the music from album to album, one with almost no emphasis on production, the other full of productional experiments...
    Further back and forth a wave will break on me, today...
  • LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    Gmoney wrote:
    I studied production in undergrad and the best way to understand it by listening to examples. Like crazy said, speed of sound demo to album version is a great example. Another one of the best examples I've found was The Shins albums, from O' Inverted World to Wincing the Night Away... BTW- I don't think Wincing is overproduced by any means, it's one of my favorite albums ever, but you can see a drastic change in the music from album to album, one with almost no emphasis on production, the other full of productional experiments...
    Good example. Wincing the Night Away has become one of my favorite albums of all time. I love the production value over the others. When I put on a pair of headphones, I hope for high levels of production.

    No one ever complains that Binaural is over-produced, yet its the most produced Pearl Jam album. They put a hell of a lot into its production.
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,425
    Over produced can also mean too thought out, instead of doin things a little more spontaneously. Working really laboriously working on a tune, and never being happy with it.


    I've never heard overproduced refer to loudness wars.
  • LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    DewieCox wrote:
    Over produced can also mean too thought out, instead of doin things a little more spontaneously. Working really laboriously working on a tune, and never being happy with it.


    I've never heard overproduced refer to loudness wars.
    Didn't they spend something like seven months in the studio for Binaural, vs. three weeks for Backspacer?
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,425
    DewieCox wrote:
    Over produced can also mean too thought out, instead of doin things a little more spontaneously. Working really laboriously working on a tune, and never being happy with it.


    I've never heard overproduced refer to loudness wars.
    Didn't they spend something like seven months in the studio for Binaural, vs. three weeks for Backspacer?

    Maybe, but overproduced is just like overrated or sellout. It's based on a person's individual taste.
  • DewieCox wrote:
    DewieCox wrote:
    Over produced can also mean too thought out, instead of doin things a little more spontaneously. Working really laboriously working on a tune, and never being happy with it.


    I've never heard overproduced refer to loudness wars.
    Didn't they spend something like seven months in the studio for Binaural, vs. three weeks for Backspacer?

    Maybe, but overproduced is just like overrated or sellout. It's based on a person's individual taste.

    Not necessarily. Some would argue that Sgt. Peppers is overproduced due to the elaborate recording techniques and arrangements used on tunes like Mr. Kite, A Day in the Life, and Within You Without You
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • I concur with DewieCox. I love the production of every Pearl Jam album. The original Ten being my least fave but they "repaired" that.
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,425
    Not necessarily. Some would argue that Sgt. Peppers is overproduced due to the elaborate recording techniques and arrangements used on tunes like Mr. Kite, A Day in the Life, and Within You Without You

    More would argue that it has the perfect amount of production.
  • DewieCox wrote:
    Not necessarily. Some would argue that Sgt. Peppers is overproduced due to the elaborate recording techniques and arrangements used on tunes like Mr. Kite, A Day in the Life, and Within You Without You

    More would argue that it has the perfect amount of production.

    Well yes I guess that's what I would argue as well.

    I'm just not getting what people are saying is "overproduced" about Backspacer. But this could be due in large part that I never listen to Backspacer.
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
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